RE: Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

[Chris Adams (IT)]

Todd,

The question of DFS is an interesting one. Per the DFS specification,
devices certified to use DFS spectrum must be able to actively detect and
avoid the use of DFS frequencies used by radar. With the use of WAPs that
are approved by the FCC for use within DFS spectrum, there is an assumption
that devices are certified to detect and avoid frequencies in which radar is
detected. For me, the choice to use or not use DFS channels was more a
consideration of maximum client 5Ghz adoption, rather than concern about
potential radar conflicts in our areas - the WAPs should detect and handle
this themselves. Any more, most clients can use the full gamut of 5Ghz
channels. As we approach the actual usage of wider channel widths, we should
let the choice to use DFS be a decision based on RF coverage overlap and RF
spectrum your deployment needs.

Here's a fun IEEE whitepaper on DFS and the metrics used by WAPs to detect
radar usage in their proximity:
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/09/11-09-1217-00-0reg-dfs-criteria-whitep
aper.pdf


Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia
E-Mail: chris.ad...@ung.edu | Office: (706) 867-2891

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Smith, Todd
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 8:32 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

In my efforts to continuous improve the wireless experience here; I
occasionally like to revisit some of my assumptions to see if they are still
valid.  What is the current consensus around channel plans for both 2.4 GHz
and 5 GHz ranges?  Do organizations plan a static channel plan for
potentially thousands of access points or have the channel selection
algorithms matured enough to be truly useful now?

If you use static channel plans, are there tools that you use to build those
plans?  Do they handle 3 dimensions or are you mapping the channels across
an 2D floor?

If you use dynamic channel plans, are there tools that you use to build
those plans?  What parameters or metrics are being used to select a channel?
Is the issue of 2.4 GHz radios constantly changing channels still a valid
concern?  If you are using 5 GHz DFS channels, do you have any concerns
about clients not being able to hear those channels and having "dead spots".

Thanks for the input!

Todd Smith
Charleston Area Medical Center

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smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

[Smith, Todd]

Locally, our airport code is CRW, Charleston West Virginia and I have not had 
to turn off any DFS channel due to interference concerns.  Obviously, some 
clients can’t see all of those channels but I have not had to disable any.

Todd

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Edward Ip
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:23
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

Oops my bad…we disable channel 120, 124, and 128 for the weather station not 
144.

Edward Ip
Algonquin College | 1385 Woodroffe Avenue | Room C316 | Ottawa | Ontario | K2G 
1V8 | Canada
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__algonquincollege.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=2GaipCMI-4CXTl0y2l8grQS3faC7QKiDQZYpyUtD00M&r=7X-vXFH8lhperH4PHdmXwvaMvzUVeh5xfN49DSclJycHY5Xrcl5OPEMsSJsuPn4R&m=TvU8lBOhgPqXolnvCWe_JEZBy8MajU1iqjj0ggS180M&s=PaUPo4nZE5jB62sJabeORqf2WcPJ_VuIBPGto9wFKH4&e=
 


==
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Thank you

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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

[Smith, Todd]

What tool did you use to generate this chart?  Is this from your network 
monitoring platform?

Todd

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeremy Gibbs
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:43
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

I made a graph of % of clients that can/can't use what 5 Ghz channel.
[cid:image002.png@01D2D957.29C64ED0]


--

Jeremy L. Gibbs
Sr. Network Engineer
Utica College IITS

T: (315) 223-2383
F: (315) 792-3814
E: jlgi...@utica.edu
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.utica.edu-5Butica.edu-5D&d=DwIGaQ&c=2GaipCMI-4CXTl0y2l8grQS3faC7QKiDQZYpyUtD00M&r=7X-vXFH8lhperH4PHdmXwvaMvzUVeh5xfN49DSclJycHY5Xrcl5OPEMsSJsuPn4R&m=3xhDiM4iyMTb286OA4EKlmvqQdSqgpP57xve1N156jE&s=MsyMNG7YyXOXDodu0DKuh7wE0QNmpcL1BL13kEKADP4&e=
 


On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Edward Ip 
mailto:i...@algonquincollege.com>> wrote:
Oops my bad…we disable channel 120, 124, and 128 for the weather station not 
144.

Edward Ip
Algonquin College | 1385 Woodroffe Avenue | Room C316 | Ottawa | Ontario | K2G 
1V8 | Canada
algonquincollege.com[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__algonquincollege.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=2GaipCMI-4CXTl0y2l8grQS3faC7QKiDQZYpyUtD00M&r=7X-vXFH8lhperH4PHdmXwvaMvzUVeh5xfN49DSclJycHY5Xrcl5OPEMsSJsuPn4R&m=3xhDiM4iyMTb286OA4EKlmvqQdSqgpP57xve1N156jE&s=76aUZ7NVS3lhkcUXEYLQpt6-SQoqidoM7CnBqzpORso&e=
 
]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
 On Behalf Of Edward Ip
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:18 AM

To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

I don’t know about your region, but we are located in Ottawa, Canada and we 
have turned off Channel 144 due to a weather radar station located near our 
city. Could be a possible source.

Regards,
Edward Ip
Algonquin College | 1385 Woodroffe Avenue | Room C316 | Ottawa | Ontario | K2G 
1V8 | Canada
algonquincollege.com[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__algonquincollege.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=2GaipCMI-4CXTl0y2l8grQS3faC7QKiDQZYpyUtD00M&r=7X-vXFH8lhperH4PHdmXwvaMvzUVeh5xfN49DSclJycHY5Xrcl5OPEMsSJsuPn4R&m=3xhDiM4iyMTb286OA4EKlmvqQdSqgpP57xve1N156jE&s=76aUZ7NVS3lhkcUXEYLQpt6-SQoqidoM7CnBqzpORso&e=
 
]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Smith, Todd
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:09 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

Hello Jon,

Thanks for the input!  Aruba’s ARM is frequently been cited as the poster child 
for dynamic channel plans.  I am not using Aruba here but it is probably my 
next upgrade choice unless something better comes long.

Does ARM detect if an AP goes down and adjust TX power and/or channel 
accordingly?

Were you ever able to identify your DFS source on channel 144?  Our core 
facilities are near a regional airport that also serves the Air National Guard 
and I don’t see DFS timeouts.  I have read that sometimes false positives can 
be generated in DFS channels and channel switches in response.

Todd

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller

Todd,

We are an Aruba shop using dynamic channel plans.

We let Aruba's ARM (Adaptive Radio Management) decide on the best channel for 
each radio, and in some cases, give it the ability to turn off a 2.4 radio if 
it detects that there's too much co-channel interference in an area.  ARM will 
not switch channels if there is a client associated to a radio, except in the 
case of an emergency (DFS beacon, etc).  We also let it pick the Tx power 
within a range that we specify (typically 12 - 15 EIRP on 5GHz, lower on the 
2.4).

ARM has some secret sauce about how it decides which channel is best, and has 
some parameters that we can tu

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

[Jonathan Miller]

Todd,

The Aruba equipment reports a radar event once in a while for channel 144;
we are assuming that it's because we are close to a small airport.  Even if
it were a false positive, I'm not inclined to try to use the channel if
there is a chance that clients will get knocked off. Based on the info that
others have posted here, I think I'd avoid 144 even if we weren't near an
airport.  Learn something new every day!

The best practice with ARM right now is to set it to a range of 3-6 dBm for
Tx power.  The general wisdom, we are told, is that this prevents having a
few APs that start screaming and others that back way off to try to reduce
CCI.  So the short answer is kind of.  ARM can adjust to the top of the
specified range, but will not go past that even to compensate for a down
neighbor.

We are still in the process of our Aruba migration, and it's really been
going well.  We worked with a great VAR to get us bootstrapped, and now
we're chugging right along.  We have seen a dramatic drop in the number of
wireless complaints with the new Aruba equipment.




Jonathan Miller
Network Analyst
Franklin and Marshall College

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 11:09 AM, Smith, Todd  wrote:

> Hello Jon,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the input!  Aruba’s ARM is frequently been cited as the poster
> child for dynamic channel plans.  I am not using Aruba here but it is
> probably my next upgrade choice unless something better comes long.
>
>
>
> Does ARM detect if an AP goes down and adjust TX power and/or channel
> accordingly?
>
>
>
> Were you ever able to identify your DFS source on channel 144?  Our core
> facilities are near a regional airport that also serves the Air National
> Guard and I don’t see DFS timeouts.  I have read that sometimes false
> positives can be generated in DFS channels and channel switches in response.
>
>
>
> Todd
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Jonathan Miller
>
>
>
> Todd,
>
>
>
> We are an Aruba shop using dynamic channel plans.
>
>
>
> We let Aruba's ARM (Adaptive Radio Management) decide on the best channel
> for each radio, and in some cases, give it the ability to turn off a 2.4
> radio if it detects that there's too much co-channel interference in an
> area.  ARM will not switch channels if there is a client associated to a
> radio, except in the case of an emergency (DFS beacon, etc).  We also let
> it pick the Tx power within a range that we specify (typically 12 - 15 EIRP
> on 5GHz, lower on the 2.4).
>
>
>
> ARM has some secret sauce about how it decides which channel is best, and
> has some parameters that we can tune, but we haven't really fiddled with
> the knobs too much.
>
>
>
> We are using DFS channels, but we haven't had complaints about clients
> that can't see them.  I suspect that part of the reason that we haven't had
> complaints about dead spots is that we have a pretty dense deployment, so
> in our res halls, a client should be able to see at 3-4 APs, and the odds
> of all of them running on a channel that a given client does not support
> seems to be slim enough.  Also, it may be that we just got lucky and don't
> have too many older 5GHz radios around that don't support all DFS
> channels.  We have disabled channel 144 because we did see some beacon
> events on it, but all other 5GHz channels are enabled.
>
>
> --
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be
> privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains protected health
> information, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited, except as
> permitted by law. If you have received this communication in error, please
> notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and deleting it
> from your computer. Thank you
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/
> discuss.
>
>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

[Dennis Xu]

We are a Cisco shop and we discovered that channel 144 is not even available 
for APs in -A domain(for Canada). This channel is available for -B domain 
APs(for US). Although we enable channel 144 globally at the controller, none of 
our APs can pick up it. When I try to manually set channel 144 for an AP, this 
channel is not available from the drop down list. I was very curious about this 
and opened a TAC case. I was told channel 144 is not available for -A domain 
APs. I am not sure if it is same for other vendors.


We use Cisco RRM to automatically manage channel and power settings. We enabled 
all DFS channels and discovered radar events on most of these channels. We 
receive alerts from Prime Infrastructure about radar events. If we find a radar 
event, we have to disable that channel. In the end, only four DFS channels are 
usable to us:  120,124,128, 136.


Dennis Xu
University of Guelph
519-824-4120 Ext 56217
d...@uoguelph.ca
www.uoguelph.ca/ccs



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
 on behalf of Kitri Waterman 
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:44:47 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

Older clients that support DFS may still not support 144. We have left 144 off 
as we (gradually) roll out DFS to more of our locations.

“Channel 144 was only added for WiFi use in 2013, with the emergence of 
802.11ac, in order to support an additional 80 MHz channel. Hence, older 
802.11n client devices and some access points do not recognize and therefore 
cannot operate on Channel 144.”

http://www.networkcomputing.com/wireless/channel-bonding-wifi-rules-and-regulations/199326059

Also, Aruba ARM should only get even better as the Rasa analytics become more 
integrated: 
http://www.networkworld.com/article/3067760/big-data-business-intelligence/hpe-aruba-buys-networking-analysis-company-rasa-networks.html


Kitri Waterman
-
Network Engineer, UW-IT
University of Washington
4545 15th Ave NE Seattle, WA 98105
www.uw.edu


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
 on behalf of Edward Ip 

Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 

Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:23 AM
To: "WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU" 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

Oops my bad…we disable channel 120, 124, and 128 for the weather station not 
144.

Edward Ip
Algonquin College | 1385 Woodroffe Avenue | Room C316 | Ottawa | Ontario | K2G 
1V8 | Canada
algonquincollege.com

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Edward Ip
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:18 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

I don’t know about your region, but we are located in Ottawa, Canada and we 
have turned off Channel 144 due to a weather radar station located near our 
city. Could be a possible source.

Regards,
Edward Ip
Algonquin College | 1385 Woodroffe Avenue | Room C316 | Ottawa | Ontario | K2G 
1V8 | Canada
algonquincollege.com

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Smith, Todd
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:09 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

Hello Jon,

Thanks for the input!  Aruba’s ARM is frequently been cited as the poster child 
for dynamic channel plans.  I am not using Aruba here but it is probably my 
next upgrade choice unless something better comes long.

Does ARM detect if an AP goes down and adjust TX power and/or channel 
accordingly?

Were you ever able to identify your DFS source on channel 144?  Our core 
facilities are near a regional airport that also serves the Air National Guard 
and I don’t see DFS timeouts.  I have read that sometimes false positives can 
be generated in DFS channels and channel switches in response.

Todd

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller

Todd,

We are an Aruba shop using dynamic channel plans.

We let Aruba's ARM (Adaptive Radio Management) decide on the best channel for 
each radio, and in some cases, give it the ability to turn off a 2.4 radio if 
it detects that there's too much co-channel interference in an area.  ARM will 
not switch channels if there is a client associated to a radio, except in the 
case of an emergency (DFS beacon, etc).  We also let it pick the Tx power 
within a range that we specify (typically 12 - 15 EIRP on 5GHz, lower on the 
2.4).

ARM has some secret sauce about how it decides which channel is best, and has 
some parameters that we can tune, but we haven't really fiddled with the knobs 
too much.

We are using DFS channels, but we haven't had complaints

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

[Kitri Waterman]

Older clients that support DFS may still not support 144. We have left 144 off 
as we (gradually) roll out DFS to more of our locations.

“Channel 144 was only added for WiFi use in 2013, with the emergence of 
802.11ac, in order to support an additional 80 MHz channel. Hence, older 
802.11n client devices and some access points do not recognize and therefore 
cannot operate on Channel 144.”

http://www.networkcomputing.com/wireless/channel-bonding-wifi-rules-and-regulations/199326059

Also, Aruba ARM should only get even better as the Rasa analytics become more 
integrated: 
http://www.networkworld.com/article/3067760/big-data-business-intelligence/hpe-aruba-buys-networking-analysis-company-rasa-networks.html


Kitri Waterman
-
Network Engineer, UW-IT
University of Washington
4545 15th Ave NE Seattle, WA 98105
www.uw.edu


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
 on behalf of Edward Ip 

Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 

Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:23 AM
To: "WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU" 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

Oops my bad…we disable channel 120, 124, and 128 for the weather station not 
144.

Edward Ip
Algonquin College | 1385 Woodroffe Avenue | Room C316 | Ottawa | Ontario | K2G 
1V8 | Canada
algonquincollege.com

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Edward Ip
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:18 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

I don’t know about your region, but we are located in Ottawa, Canada and we 
have turned off Channel 144 due to a weather radar station located near our 
city. Could be a possible source.

Regards,
Edward Ip
Algonquin College | 1385 Woodroffe Avenue | Room C316 | Ottawa | Ontario | K2G 
1V8 | Canada
algonquincollege.com

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Smith, Todd
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:09 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

Hello Jon,

Thanks for the input!  Aruba’s ARM is frequently been cited as the poster child 
for dynamic channel plans.  I am not using Aruba here but it is probably my 
next upgrade choice unless something better comes long.

Does ARM detect if an AP goes down and adjust TX power and/or channel 
accordingly?

Were you ever able to identify your DFS source on channel 144?  Our core 
facilities are near a regional airport that also serves the Air National Guard 
and I don’t see DFS timeouts.  I have read that sometimes false positives can 
be generated in DFS channels and channel switches in response.

Todd

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller

Todd,

We are an Aruba shop using dynamic channel plans.

We let Aruba's ARM (Adaptive Radio Management) decide on the best channel for 
each radio, and in some cases, give it the ability to turn off a 2.4 radio if 
it detects that there's too much co-channel interference in an area.  ARM will 
not switch channels if there is a client associated to a radio, except in the 
case of an emergency (DFS beacon, etc).  We also let it pick the Tx power 
within a range that we specify (typically 12 - 15 EIRP on 5GHz, lower on the 
2.4).

ARM has some secret sauce about how it decides which channel is best, and has 
some parameters that we can tune, but we haven't really fiddled with the knobs 
too much.

We are using DFS channels, but we haven't had complaints about clients that 
can't see them.  I suspect that part of the reason that we haven't had 
complaints about dead spots is that we have a pretty dense deployment, so in 
our res halls, a client should be able to see at 3-4 APs, and the odds of all 
of them running on a channel that a given client does not support seems to be 
slim enough.  Also, it may be that we just got lucky and don't have too many 
older 5GHz radios around that don't support all DFS channels.  We have disabled 
channel 144 because we did see some beacon events on it, but all other 5GHz 
channels are enabled.


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be 
privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains protected health 
information, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited, except as permitted by 
law. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender 
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer. 
Thank you
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/d

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

[Jeremy Gibbs]

I made a graph of % of clients that can/can't use what 5 Ghz channel.
[image: Inline image 1]





*--Jeremy L. Gibbs*
Sr. Network Engineer
Utica College IITS

T: (315) 223-2383
F: (315) 792-3814
E: jlgi...@utica.edu
http://www.utica.edu

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Edward Ip 
wrote:

> Oops my bad…we disable channel 120, 124, and 128 for the weather station
> not 144.
>
>
>
> *Edward Ip*
>
> *Algonquin College* | 1385 Woodroffe Avenue | Room C316 | Ottawa | Ontario
> | K2G 1V8 | Canada
>
> algonquincollege.com
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Edward Ip
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:18 AM
>
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans
>
>
>
> I don’t know about your region, but we are located in Ottawa, Canada and
> we have turned off Channel 144 due to a weather radar station located near
> our city. Could be a possible source.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *Edward Ip*
>
> *Algonquin College* | 1385 Woodroffe Avenue | Room C316 | Ottawa | Ontario
> | K2G 1V8 | Canada
>
> algonquincollege.com
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
> mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> ] *On Behalf Of *Smith, Todd
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:09 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans
>
>
>
> Hello Jon,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the input!  Aruba’s ARM is frequently been cited as the poster
> child for dynamic channel plans.  I am not using Aruba here but it is
> probably my next upgrade choice unless something better comes long.
>
>
>
> Does ARM detect if an AP goes down and adjust TX power and/or channel
> accordingly?
>
>
>
> Were you ever able to identify your DFS source on channel 144?  Our core
> facilities are near a regional airport that also serves the Air National
> Guard and I don’t see DFS timeouts.  I have read that sometimes false
> positives can be generated in DFS channels and channel switches in response.
>
>
>
> Todd
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
> mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> ] *On Behalf Of *Jonathan Miller
>
>
>
> Todd,
>
>
>
> We are an Aruba shop using dynamic channel plans.
>
>
>
> We let Aruba's ARM (Adaptive Radio Management) decide on the best channel
> for each radio, and in some cases, give it the ability to turn off a 2.4
> radio if it detects that there's too much co-channel interference in an
> area.  ARM will not switch channels if there is a client associated to a
> radio, except in the case of an emergency (DFS beacon, etc).  We also let
> it pick the Tx power within a range that we specify (typically 12 - 15 EIRP
> on 5GHz, lower on the 2.4).
>
>
>
> ARM has some secret sauce about how it decides which channel is best, and
> has some parameters that we can tune, but we haven't really fiddled with
> the knobs too much.
>
>
>
> We are using DFS channels, but we haven't had complaints about clients
> that can't see them.  I suspect that part of the reason that we haven't had
> complaints about dead spots is that we have a pretty dense deployment, so
> in our res halls, a client should be able to see at 3-4 APs, and the odds
> of all of them running on a channel that a given client does not support
> seems to be slim enough.  Also, it may be that we just got lucky and don't
> have too many older 5GHz radios around that don't support all DFS
> channels.  We have disabled channel 144 because we did see some beacon
> events on it, but all other 5GHz channels are enabled.
>
>
> --
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be
> privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains protected health
> information, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
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> permitted by law. If you have received this communication in error, please
> notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and deleting it
> from your computer. Thank you
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/
> discuss.
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/
> discuss.
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/
> discuss.
>
>

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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

[Edward Ip]

Oops my bad…we disable channel 120, 124, and 128 for the weather station not 
144.

Edward Ip
Algonquin College | 1385 Woodroffe Avenue | Room C316 | Ottawa | Ontario | K2G 
1V8 | Canada
algonquincollege.com

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Edward Ip
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:18 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

I don’t know about your region, but we are located in Ottawa, Canada and we 
have turned off Channel 144 due to a weather radar station located near our 
city. Could be a possible source.

Regards,
Edward Ip
Algonquin College | 1385 Woodroffe Avenue | Room C316 | Ottawa | Ontario | K2G 
1V8 | Canada
algonquincollege.com

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Smith, Todd
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:09 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

Hello Jon,

Thanks for the input!  Aruba’s ARM is frequently been cited as the poster child 
for dynamic channel plans.  I am not using Aruba here but it is probably my 
next upgrade choice unless something better comes long.

Does ARM detect if an AP goes down and adjust TX power and/or channel 
accordingly?

Were you ever able to identify your DFS source on channel 144?  Our core 
facilities are near a regional airport that also serves the Air National Guard 
and I don’t see DFS timeouts.  I have read that sometimes false positives can 
be generated in DFS channels and channel switches in response.

Todd

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller

Todd,

We are an Aruba shop using dynamic channel plans.

We let Aruba's ARM (Adaptive Radio Management) decide on the best channel for 
each radio, and in some cases, give it the ability to turn off a 2.4 radio if 
it detects that there's too much co-channel interference in an area.  ARM will 
not switch channels if there is a client associated to a radio, except in the 
case of an emergency (DFS beacon, etc).  We also let it pick the Tx power 
within a range that we specify (typically 12 - 15 EIRP on 5GHz, lower on the 
2.4).

ARM has some secret sauce about how it decides which channel is best, and has 
some parameters that we can tune, but we haven't really fiddled with the knobs 
too much.

We are using DFS channels, but we haven't had complaints about clients that 
can't see them.  I suspect that part of the reason that we haven't had 
complaints about dead spots is that we have a pretty dense deployment, so in 
our res halls, a client should be able to see at 3-4 APs, and the odds of all 
of them running on a channel that a given client does not support seems to be 
slim enough.  Also, it may be that we just got lucky and don't have too many 
older 5GHz radios around that don't support all DFS channels.  We have disabled 
channel 144 because we did see some beacon events on it, but all other 5GHz 
channels are enabled.


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be 
privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains protected health 
information, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
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law. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender 
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer. 
Thank you
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** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

[Edward Ip]

I don’t know about your region, but we are located in Ottawa, Canada and we 
have turned off Channel 144 due to a weather radar station located near our 
city. Could be a possible source.

Regards,
Edward Ip
Algonquin College | 1385 Woodroffe Avenue | Room C316 | Ottawa | Ontario | K2G 
1V8 | Canada
algonquincollege.com

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Smith, Todd
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:09 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

Hello Jon,

Thanks for the input!  Aruba’s ARM is frequently been cited as the poster child 
for dynamic channel plans.  I am not using Aruba here but it is probably my 
next upgrade choice unless something better comes long.

Does ARM detect if an AP goes down and adjust TX power and/or channel 
accordingly?

Were you ever able to identify your DFS source on channel 144?  Our core 
facilities are near a regional airport that also serves the Air National Guard 
and I don’t see DFS timeouts.  I have read that sometimes false positives can 
be generated in DFS channels and channel switches in response.

Todd

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller

Todd,

We are an Aruba shop using dynamic channel plans.

We let Aruba's ARM (Adaptive Radio Management) decide on the best channel for 
each radio, and in some cases, give it the ability to turn off a 2.4 radio if 
it detects that there's too much co-channel interference in an area.  ARM will 
not switch channels if there is a client associated to a radio, except in the 
case of an emergency (DFS beacon, etc).  We also let it pick the Tx power 
within a range that we specify (typically 12 - 15 EIRP on 5GHz, lower on the 
2.4).

ARM has some secret sauce about how it decides which channel is best, and has 
some parameters that we can tune, but we haven't really fiddled with the knobs 
too much.

We are using DFS channels, but we haven't had complaints about clients that 
can't see them.  I suspect that part of the reason that we haven't had 
complaints about dead spots is that we have a pretty dense deployment, so in 
our res halls, a client should be able to see at 3-4 APs, and the odds of all 
of them running on a channel that a given client does not support seems to be 
slim enough.  Also, it may be that we just got lucky and don't have too many 
older 5GHz radios around that don't support all DFS channels.  We have disabled 
channel 144 because we did see some beacon events on it, but all other 5GHz 
channels are enabled.


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be 
privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains protected health 
information, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited, except as permitted by 
law. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender 
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer. 
Thank you
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

**
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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

[Smith, Todd]

Hello Jon,

Thanks for the input!  Aruba’s ARM is frequently been cited as the poster child 
for dynamic channel plans.  I am not using Aruba here but it is probably my 
next upgrade choice unless something better comes long.

Does ARM detect if an AP goes down and adjust TX power and/or channel 
accordingly?

Were you ever able to identify your DFS source on channel 144?  Our core 
facilities are near a regional airport that also serves the Air National Guard 
and I don’t see DFS timeouts.  I have read that sometimes false positives can 
be generated in DFS channels and channel switches in response.

Todd

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller


Todd,

We are an Aruba shop using dynamic channel plans.

We let Aruba's ARM (Adaptive Radio Management) decide on the best channel for 
each radio, and in some cases, give it the ability to turn off a 2.4 radio if 
it detects that there's too much co-channel interference in an area.  ARM will 
not switch channels if there is a client associated to a radio, except in the 
case of an emergency (DFS beacon, etc).  We also let it pick the Tx power 
within a range that we specify (typically 12 - 15 EIRP on 5GHz, lower on the 
2.4).

ARM has some secret sauce about how it decides which channel is best, and has 
some parameters that we can tune, but we haven't really fiddled with the knobs 
too much.

We are using DFS channels, but we haven't had complaints about clients that 
can't see them.  I suspect that part of the reason that we haven't had 
complaints about dead spots is that we have a pretty dense deployment, so in 
our res halls, a client should be able to see at 3-4 APs, and the odds of all 
of them running on a channel that a given client does not support seems to be 
slim enough.  Also, it may be that we just got lucky and don't have too many 
older 5GHz radios around that don't support all DFS channels.  We have disabled 
channel 144 because we did see some beacon events on it, but all other 5GHz 
channels are enabled.


==
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copying of this communication is strictly prohibited, except as permitted by 
law. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender 
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Thank you


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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

[Jonathan Miller]

Todd,

We are an Aruba shop using dynamic channel plans.

We let Aruba's ARM (Adaptive Radio Management) decide on the best channel
for each radio, and in some cases, give it the ability to turn off a 2.4
radio if it detects that there's too much co-channel interference in an
area.  ARM will not switch channels if there is a client associated to a
radio, except in the case of an emergency (DFS beacon, etc).  We also let
it pick the Tx power within a range that we specify (typically 12 - 15 EIRP
on 5GHz, lower on the 2.4).

ARM has some secret sauce about how it decides which channel is best, and
has some parameters that we can tune, but we haven't really fiddled with
the knobs too much.

We are using DFS channels, but we haven't had complaints about clients that
can't see them.  I suspect that part of the reason that we haven't had
complaints about dead spots is that we have a pretty dense deployment, so
in our res halls, a client should be able to see at 3-4 APs, and the odds
of all of them running on a channel that a given client does not support
seems to be slim enough.  Also, it may be that we just got lucky and don't
have too many older 5GHz radios around that don't support all DFS
channels.  We have disabled channel 144 because we did see some beacon
events on it, but all other 5GHz channels are enabled.

We have been running several dorms like this for about a year and have had
very few complaints.

Hope this helps,

Jon


Jonathan Miller
Network Analyst
Franklin and Marshall College

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 8:31 AM, Smith, Todd  wrote:

> In my efforts to continuous improve the wireless experience here; I
> occasionally like to revisit some of my assumptions to see if they are
> still valid.  What is the current consensus around channel plans for both
> 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz ranges?  Do organizations plan a static channel plan for
> potentially thousands of access points or have the channel selection
> algorithms matured enough to be truly useful now?
>
> If you use static channel plans, are there tools that you use to build
> those plans?  Do they handle 3 dimensions or are you mapping the channels
> across an 2D floor?
>
> If you use dynamic channel plans, are there tools that you use to build
> those plans?  What parameters or metrics are being used to select a
> channel?  Is the issue of 2.4 GHz radios constantly changing channels still
> a valid concern?  If you are using 5 GHz DFS channels, do you have any
> concerns about clients not being able to hear those channels and having
> "dead spots".
>
> Thanks for the input!
>
> Todd Smith
> Charleston Area Medical Center
>
> ==
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be
> privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains protected health
> information, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited, except as
> permitted by law. If you have received this communication in error, please
> notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and deleting it
> from your computer. Thank you
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
>

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Dynamic vs Static Channel Plans

[Smith, Todd]

In my efforts to continuous improve the wireless experience here; I 
occasionally like to revisit some of my assumptions to see if they are still 
valid.  What is the current consensus around channel plans for both 2.4 GHz and 
5 GHz ranges?  Do organizations plan a static channel plan for potentially 
thousands of access points or have the channel selection algorithms matured 
enough to be truly useful now?

If you use static channel plans, are there tools that you use to build those 
plans?  Do they handle 3 dimensions or are you mapping the channels across an 
2D floor?

If you use dynamic channel plans, are there tools that you use to build those 
plans?  What parameters or metrics are being used to select a channel?  Is the 
issue of 2.4 GHz radios constantly changing channels still a valid concern?  If 
you are using 5 GHz DFS channels, do you have any concerns about clients not 
being able to hear those channels and having "dead spots".

Thanks for the input!

Todd Smith
Charleston Area Medical Center

==
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privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains protected health 
information, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited, except as permitted by 
law. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender 
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer. 
Thank you

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