Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] FYI: Cisco controllers may put radios on UNII-2e channels
Charles,
We discovered this a couple of months ago during our initial setup/rollout of
the Cisco product. I believe there is a "US2" setting in the DCA templates (at
least in 5.1) that exclude the UNII-2e channels.
In out testing, the latest Apple iMac's with integrated BCM43xx do support
UNII-2e, but nothing else that we've tested including the popular Intel 4965AGN
or Atheros chipsets (think MacBook Pro) do. I've been told by our Cisco SE that
the latest Intel 5100 and 5300 also support UNII-2e.
Given our diverse client base, I think UNII-2e is basically off-limits to us
for the next 3-4 years. By 2011-2012, must of our client-base should have
turned over, and hopefully most will be supporting UNII-2e.
Jeff
>>> Charles Spurgeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 9/10/2008 7:41 AM >>>
FYI. This documents something that we have stumbled over with UNII-2e
channels and is a "heads up" for anyone running Cisco LWAPP gear and
using the auto channel selection component of RRM ("Dynamic Channel
Assignment" (DCA) in Cisco-speak).
The Cisco WLC release notes for v4.1.185.0 have an important caveat
(CSCsi86794) that describes the behavior of DCA and the UNII-2
Extended channels (UNII-2e).(1) For some reason this caveat is missing
in 4.2.130.0 release notes, while the DCA issue still appears to be
present in that code. (Based on the text in the 4.1.185.0 release
notes the UNII-2e support appears to have first shown up in
4.1.171.0.)
Briefly, Cisco has added support for the UNII-2e channels to the
wireless lan controller and LWAPP APs, and these channels are
automatically enabled for use by DCA.
As a result of the new support, AP radios may be automatically
assigned by DCA to one of the UNII-2e channels. We found several
radios in our system where that had happened.
Unfortunately, none of the 802.11a clients that we have tested know
about the UNII-2e channels, and therefore most (all?) 802.11a clients
cannot associate with AP radios that have been assigned to the UNII-2e
channels. An AP radio on one of those channels is no longer available
to dot11a clients and your wireless coverage will have holes in it
even though the AP is up and system monitors are happy.
If the client NIC has an 802.11an radio then it may have support for
the UNII-2e channels. You would need to test against an AP radio set
to one of the UNII-2e channels to find out, since the vendor docs that
we have looked at don't tend to have any documentation about the
presence or absence of UNII-2e support.
To avoid this issue, Cisco's release notes tell you to disable the
UNII-2e channels in DCA. However, the release notes incorrectly tell
you to also disable channel 149, which is NOT one of the UNII-2e
channels. Instead, it is one of the older channels that is supported
by all 802.11a NICs that we've tested.
If you want to avoid issues with AP radios being set to UNII-2e
channels that are invisible to clients then you can do that by
disabling all DCA channels in the UNII-2e range of 100-140.
Note that when you disable these channels using either the CLI or the
Web GUI the AP radios must be disabled and then re-enabled to make
that change.
We would be interested in hearing about the experience at other sites
with UNII-2e channels, especially the results of any tests of UNII-2e
support in clients.
Thanks,
-Charles
Charles E. Spurgeon / UTnet
UT Austin ITS / Networking
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 512.475.9265
(1) The UNII-2e channels appear to be relatively recent
additions. This Cisco doc mentions them in the context of DFS support
requirements: http://tinyurl.com/yq7y9r
**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] FYI: Cisco controllers may put radios on UNII-2e channels
Charles,
I'd be interested to know which client/drivers you've already tested
this with. Maybe others have some as well to add to a list of either
working or not. Thanks,
--
Don Wright
Brown University
CIS - NTG
On 9/10/08 10:41 AM, "Charles Spurgeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> FYI. This documents something that we have stumbled over with UNII-2e
> channels and is a "heads up" for anyone running Cisco LWAPP gear and
> using the auto channel selection component of RRM ("Dynamic Channel
> Assignment" (DCA) in Cisco-speak).
>
> The Cisco WLC release notes for v4.1.185.0 have an important caveat
> (CSCsi86794) that describes the behavior of DCA and the UNII-2
> Extended channels (UNII-2e).(1) For some reason this caveat is missing
> in 4.2.130.0 release notes, while the DCA issue still appears to be
> present in that code. (Based on the text in the 4.1.185.0 release
> notes the UNII-2e support appears to have first shown up in
> 4.1.171.0.)
>
> Briefly, Cisco has added support for the UNII-2e channels to the
> wireless lan controller and LWAPP APs, and these channels are
> automatically enabled for use by DCA.
>
> As a result of the new support, AP radios may be automatically
> assigned by DCA to one of the UNII-2e channels. We found several
> radios in our system where that had happened.
>
> Unfortunately, none of the 802.11a clients that we have tested know
> about the UNII-2e channels, and therefore most (all?) 802.11a clients
> cannot associate with AP radios that have been assigned to the UNII-2e
> channels. An AP radio on one of those channels is no longer available
> to dot11a clients and your wireless coverage will have holes in it
> even though the AP is up and system monitors are happy.
>
> If the client NIC has an 802.11an radio then it may have support for
> the UNII-2e channels. You would need to test against an AP radio set
> to one of the UNII-2e channels to find out, since the vendor docs that
> we have looked at don't tend to have any documentation about the
> presence or absence of UNII-2e support.
>
> To avoid this issue, Cisco's release notes tell you to disable the
> UNII-2e channels in DCA. However, the release notes incorrectly tell
> you to also disable channel 149, which is NOT one of the UNII-2e
> channels. Instead, it is one of the older channels that is supported
> by all 802.11a NICs that we've tested.
>
> If you want to avoid issues with AP radios being set to UNII-2e
> channels that are invisible to clients then you can do that by
> disabling all DCA channels in the UNII-2e range of 100-140.
>
> Note that when you disable these channels using either the CLI or the
> Web GUI the AP radios must be disabled and then re-enabled to make
> that change.
>
> We would be interested in hearing about the experience at other sites
> with UNII-2e channels, especially the results of any tests of UNII-2e
> support in clients.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Charles
>
> Charles E. Spurgeon / UTnet
> UT Austin ITS / Networking
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 512.475.9265
>
> (1) The UNII-2e channels appear to be relatively recent
> additions. This Cisco doc mentions them in the context of DFS support
> requirements: http://tinyurl.com/yq7y9r
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group
> discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] FYI: Cisco controllers may put radios on UNII-2e channels
Don,
I did some testing of four client interfaces in the spring when we had
identified this issue (I've been meaning to post about this for a
while, but spare time has been hard to come by), and collected the
test results in a spreadsheet.
The two bga interfaces were not able to associate with UNII-2e
channels. Of the two bgan interfaces, one worked with UNII-2e channels
and the other did not.
To make the test info available I have created a Google spreadsheet
which can be found at:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pvI5m65uYyGaZlGrZV7fxFA
One of my goals is to make it possible for others to add their test
data to the Google spreadsheet, so that everyone can benefit from the
info collected on the channel support levels for 5 GHz clients
It looks like Google has an automatic form creator to help automate
the process of collecting data in a spreadsheet, so I will try sending
that form to the wireless-lan list and see what happens.
-Charles
Charles E. Spurgeon / UTnet
UT Austin ITS / Networking
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 512.475.9265
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 09:05:43PM -0400, Don Wright wrote:
> Charles,
> I'd be interested to know which client/drivers you've already tested
> this with. Maybe others have some as well to add to a list of either
> working or not. Thanks,
>
> --
> Don Wright
> Brown University
> CIS - NTG
>
>
>
> On 9/10/08 10:41 AM, "Charles Spurgeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > FYI. This documents something that we have stumbled over with UNII-2e
> > channels and is a "heads up" for anyone running Cisco LWAPP gear and
> > using the auto channel selection component of RRM ("Dynamic Channel
> > Assignment" (DCA) in Cisco-speak).
> >
> > The Cisco WLC release notes for v4.1.185.0 have an important caveat
> > (CSCsi86794) that describes the behavior of DCA and the UNII-2
> > Extended channels (UNII-2e).(1) For some reason this caveat is missing
> > in 4.2.130.0 release notes, while the DCA issue still appears to be
> > present in that code. (Based on the text in the 4.1.185.0 release
> > notes the UNII-2e support appears to have first shown up in
> > 4.1.171.0.)
> >
> > Briefly, Cisco has added support for the UNII-2e channels to the
> > wireless lan controller and LWAPP APs, and these channels are
> > automatically enabled for use by DCA.
> >
> > As a result of the new support, AP radios may be automatically
> > assigned by DCA to one of the UNII-2e channels. We found several
> > radios in our system where that had happened.
> >
> > Unfortunately, none of the 802.11a clients that we have tested know
> > about the UNII-2e channels, and therefore most (all?) 802.11a clients
> > cannot associate with AP radios that have been assigned to the UNII-2e
> > channels. An AP radio on one of those channels is no longer available
> > to dot11a clients and your wireless coverage will have holes in it
> > even though the AP is up and system monitors are happy.
> >
> > If the client NIC has an 802.11an radio then it may have support for
> > the UNII-2e channels. You would need to test against an AP radio set
> > to one of the UNII-2e channels to find out, since the vendor docs that
> > we have looked at don't tend to have any documentation about the
> > presence or absence of UNII-2e support.
> >
> > To avoid this issue, Cisco's release notes tell you to disable the
> > UNII-2e channels in DCA. However, the release notes incorrectly tell
> > you to also disable channel 149, which is NOT one of the UNII-2e
> > channels. Instead, it is one of the older channels that is supported
> > by all 802.11a NICs that we've tested.
> >
> > If you want to avoid issues with AP radios being set to UNII-2e
> > channels that are invisible to clients then you can do that by
> > disabling all DCA channels in the UNII-2e range of 100-140.
> >
> > Note that when you disable these channels using either the CLI or the
> > Web GUI the AP radios must be disabled and then re-enabled to make
> > that change.
> >
> > We would be interested in hearing about the experience at other sites
> > with UNII-2e channels, especially the results of any tests of UNII-2e
> > support in clients.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -Charles
> >
> > Charles E. Spurgeon / UTnet
> > UT Austin ITS / Networking
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 512.475.9265
> >
> > (1) The UNII-2e channels appear to be relatively recent
> > additions. This Cisco doc mentions them in the context of DFS support
> > requirements: http://tinyurl.com/yq7y9r
> >
> > **
> > Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> > Group
> > discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] FYI: Cisco controllers may put radios on UNII-2e channels
For those wanting to test Macs, you can save yourself a lot of work by simply
running the "Console" application, selecting "all messages," and then toggle
the Airport off/on. When the driver comes back up, OS X displays all of the
channels that the installed card is capable of using.
As an example, here is what a current MacBook Pro with Atheros displays.
9/11/08 5:26:32 PM kernel en1: 802.11d country code set to 'US'.
9/11/08 5:26:32 PM kernel en1: Supported channels 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 36 40
44 48 52 56 60 64 149 153 157 161 165
Current iMac w/ BCM43xx
9/11/08 3:07:24 PM kernel en1: 802.11d country code set to 'US'.
9/11/08 3:07:24 PM kernel en1: Supported channels 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 36 40 44 48 52 56 60 64 100 104 108 112 116 120 124 128
132 136 140 149 153 157 161 165 40 48 56 64 104 112 120 128 136 153 161 36 44
52 60
Also, a click of the Airport icon in the menu bar will provide other
information including current channel, transmit rate, RSSI, etc.
best,
Jeff
>>> Charles Spurgeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 9/11/2008 2:17 PM >>>
Don,
I did some testing of four client interfaces in the spring when we had
identified this issue (I've been meaning to post about this for a
while, but spare time has been hard to come by), and collected the
test results in a spreadsheet.
The two bga interfaces were not able to associate with UNII-2e
channels. Of the two bgan interfaces, one worked with UNII-2e channels
and the other did not.
To make the test info available I have created a Google spreadsheet
which can be found at:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pvI5m65uYyGaZlGrZV7fxFA
One of my goals is to make it possible for others to add their test
data to the Google spreadsheet, so that everyone can benefit from the
info collected on the channel support levels for 5 GHz clients
It looks like Google has an automatic form creator to help automate
the process of collecting data in a spreadsheet, so I will try sending
that form to the wireless-lan list and see what happens.
-Charles
Charles E. Spurgeon / UTnet
UT Austin ITS / Networking
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 512.475.9265
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 09:05:43PM -0400, Don Wright wrote:
> Charles,
> I'd be interested to know which client/drivers you've already tested
> this with. Maybe others have some as well to add to a list of either
> working or not. Thanks,
>
> --
> Don Wright
> Brown University
> CIS - NTG
>
>
>
> On 9/10/08 10:41 AM, "Charles Spurgeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > FYI. This documents something that we have stumbled over with UNII-2e
> > channels and is a "heads up" for anyone running Cisco LWAPP gear and
> > using the auto channel selection component of RRM ("Dynamic Channel
> > Assignment" (DCA) in Cisco-speak).
> >
> > The Cisco WLC release notes for v4.1.185.0 have an important caveat
> > (CSCsi86794) that describes the behavior of DCA and the UNII-2
> > Extended channels (UNII-2e).(1) For some reason this caveat is missing
> > in 4.2.130.0 release notes, while the DCA issue still appears to be
> > present in that code. (Based on the text in the 4.1.185.0 release
> > notes the UNII-2e support appears to have first shown up in
> > 4.1.171.0.)
> >
> > Briefly, Cisco has added support for the UNII-2e channels to the
> > wireless lan controller and LWAPP APs, and these channels are
> > automatically enabled for use by DCA.
> >
> > As a result of the new support, AP radios may be automatically
> > assigned by DCA to one of the UNII-2e channels. We found several
> > radios in our system where that had happened.
> >
> > Unfortunately, none of the 802.11a clients that we have tested know
> > about the UNII-2e channels, and therefore most (all?) 802.11a clients
> > cannot associate with AP radios that have been assigned to the UNII-2e
> > channels. An AP radio on one of those channels is no longer available
> > to dot11a clients and your wireless coverage will have holes in it
> > even though the AP is up and system monitors are happy.
> >
> > If the client NIC has an 802.11an radio then it may have support for
> > the UNII-2e channels. You would need to test against an AP radio set
> > to one of the UNII-2e channels to find out, since the vendor docs that
> > we have looked at don't tend to have any documentation about the
> > presence or absence of UNII-2e support.
> >
> > To avoid this issue, Cisco's release notes tell you to disable the
> > UNII-2e channels in DCA. However, the release notes incorrectly tell
> > you to also disable channel 149, which is NOT one of the UNII-2e
> > channels. Instead, it is one of the older channels that is supported
> > by all 802.11a NICs that we've tested.
> >
> > If you want to avoid issues with AP radios being set to UNII-2e
> > channels that are invisible to clients then you can do that by
> > disabling all DCA channels in the UNII-2e range of 100-140.
> >
> > Note that when you disable these channels using either the CLI or the
>
