Re: Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact Tracing

[Green, William C]

No contact tracing queries to date, but a lot of building occupancy interests.

1)  We are investigating DNA Spaces for building occupancy and will be 
conducting tests in two buildings with I/R entrance sensors to compare.  I 
would be interested in a conversation with any school that has experiences with 
DNA Spaces in campus environments (experience > powerpoint).  Please contact me 
off list.

An expensive undertaking — but then so are the I/R solutions.  The Wi-Fi 
infrastructure is in place (watching fall quickly approaches).


2)  Home-grown, we are providing anonymized association data to our business 
intelligence group, which attempts to correlate with rough building occupancy 
(they have a nice visualization of the campus map, just building level not 
floors).  It can be difficult weeding out transients/drive-bys from actual 
people in their data analysis.  The information has been used over this period 
by our custodians and to focus various safety efforts.  In the next weeks we 
hope to compare that with reports from a building that has entrances equipped 
with entry/exit I/R cameras from the February timeframe prior to distancing.

Not as elegant as #1, because the device must be associated with our network, 
and it only gets the associated AP (as opposed to all APs hearing from a 
solution from your relevant vendor like #1).  Our open guest network pays off a 
bit here, in that Google decided it was “good”, and Android devices 
automatically connect to it and get VPN tunneled through Google without the 
user taking action to configure their device if Wi-Fi is on.


3)  Now how do you convince everyone to leave Wi-Fi turned on and not be 
creeped out by all this?


4)  If someone knows of decent services to obtain cellular location I’d also be 
interested.  Carrier account reps have not returned my queries on their 
“solutions” yet.  If figure if its good enough for marketing, it may provide a 
different less-granular metric of use.



William Green, Director of Networking and Telecommunications
The University of Texas at Austin | ITS | 512-475-9295 | 
it.utexas.edu | 
gr...@austin.utexas.edu



We are getting multiple vendor pitches these days for contact tracing 
“solutions”. From Cisco, our main network vendor, their pitch relies on DNA 
Spaces. We don’t use that yet,  and it’s no secret what is happening to many of 
our budgets.



 My question is specifically for Cisco legacy location services users. Are you 
all doing anything specific in anticipation of possibly needing to provide 
Wi-Fi location data for contact tracing? Are you being specifically asked about 
it by your management?



Lee Badman (mobile)



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RE: Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact Tracing

[Rios, Hector J]

Aruba has a webinar this week, for anyone interested: 

Contact Tracing in Higher Education: What you can do now
https://arubanetworks.zoom.us/meeting/register/tJMkdeuvpjMjG9wOJ7P2I4J_1STpNEEcWhBD

Just like Cisco, Aruba has other integrations to provide additional accuracy 
and functionality. How you use all this, whether is Cisco, Aruba or whoever, 
depends on exactly how granular you want to get, and how much you are willing 
to pay. 

Hector Rios


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 12:30 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact Tracing

I hope everyone on the list is doing well.

We are getting multiple vendor pitches these days for contact tracing 
“solutions”. From Cisco, our main network vendor, their pitch relies on DNA 
Spaces. We don’t use that yet,  and it’s no secret what is happening to many of 
our budgets.

 My question is specifically for Cisco legacy location services users. Are you 
all doing anything specific in anticipation of possibly needing to provide 
Wi-Fi location data for contact tracing? Are you being specifically asked about 
it by your management? 

I haven’t decided yet weather the vendors are being generally altruistic or 
opportunistic on this topic yet.

Regards,

Lee Badman (mobile)

**
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list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community
>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.<<

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and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

RE: Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact Tracing

[Lee H Badman]

Thanks, Richard. Great info.

Lee Badman | Network Architect (CWNE#200)
Information Technology Services
(NDD Group)
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   e lhbad...@syr.edu w its.syr.edu
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Letts, Richard J
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 12:32 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact 
Tracing

The stream of authentication records with called-station-id and account should 
be enough to do rudimentary contact tracing over a broad area (coverage of an 
AP)

I'd want to avoid the slippery slope of this being used as a proxy for class 
attendance and their academic record because I don't want all of our wireless 
troubleshooting logs to suddenly be in scope for FERPA. 

Also, I heard once that cisco were taking future-possibility of  contact 
tracing out of DNA-spaces marketing materials because cisco's legal freaked on 
the possible privacy implications of what the marketing department had dreamed 
up. We do not have DNA spaces.

Richard Letts

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 12:10 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact 
Tracing

Lee,

Even without location services, one can get association data for a device and 
use that for rudimentary contact tracing.  I used it over the summer for a 
possible COVID case, and it was helpful in determining where the person was 
not. That is, it's not accurate enough to exclude people from the local area, 
but if the devices weren’t seen in other buildings, that was helpful.  I don't 
know that it would scale come students returning, and we're going to need 
something like Spaces to help.  Spaces looked very expensive however. 

We make use of an emergency notification product called Everbridge, and they 
are pitching a contact tracing support add-on to their mobile app where they 
bridge data from WiFi associations, door swipe, meal cards, and so on, all in 
an effort to provide more accurate information on a device/person.  Of course, 
that raises privacy concerns, so I'm still hopeful we'll see something 
compelling come from the Apple/Google partnership where we aren't holding onto 
data that must be protected and managed.

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:30 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact Tracing

I hope everyone on the list is doing well.

We are getting multiple vendor pitches these days for contact tracing 
“solutions”. From Cisco, our main network vendor, their pitch relies on DNA 
Spaces. We don’t use that yet,  and it’s no secret what is happening to many of 
our budgets.

 My question is specifically for Cisco legacy location services users. Are you 
all doing anything specific in anticipation of possibly needing to provide 
Wi-Fi location data for contact tracing? Are you being specifically asked about 
it by your management? 

I haven’t decided yet weather the vendors are being generally altruistic or 
opportunistic on this topic yet.

Regards,

Lee Badman (mobile)

**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

**
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list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

**
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list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

**
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and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

RE: Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact Tracing

[Letts, Richard J]

The stream of authentication records with called-station-id and account should 
be enough to do rudimentary contact tracing over a broad area (coverage of an 
AP)

I'd want to avoid the slippery slope of this being used as a proxy for class 
attendance and their academic record because I don't want all of our wireless 
troubleshooting logs to suddenly be in scope for FERPA. 

Also, I heard once that cisco were taking future-possibility of  contact 
tracing out of DNA-spaces marketing materials because cisco's legal freaked on 
the possible privacy implications of what the marketing department had dreamed 
up. We do not have DNA spaces.

Richard Letts

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 12:10 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact 
Tracing

Lee,

Even without location services, one can get association data for a device and 
use that for rudimentary contact tracing.  I used it over the summer for a 
possible COVID case, and it was helpful in determining where the person was 
not. That is, it's not accurate enough to exclude people from the local area, 
but if the devices weren’t seen in other buildings, that was helpful.  I don't 
know that it would scale come students returning, and we're going to need 
something like Spaces to help.  Spaces looked very expensive however. 

We make use of an emergency notification product called Everbridge, and they 
are pitching a contact tracing support add-on to their mobile app where they 
bridge data from WiFi associations, door swipe, meal cards, and so on, all in 
an effort to provide more accurate information on a device/person.  Of course, 
that raises privacy concerns, so I'm still hopeful we'll see something 
compelling come from the Apple/Google partnership where we aren't holding onto 
data that must be protected and managed.

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:30 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact Tracing

I hope everyone on the list is doing well.

We are getting multiple vendor pitches these days for contact tracing 
“solutions”. From Cisco, our main network vendor, their pitch relies on DNA 
Spaces. We don’t use that yet,  and it’s no secret what is happening to many of 
our budgets.

 My question is specifically for Cisco legacy location services users. Are you 
all doing anything specific in anticipation of possibly needing to provide 
Wi-Fi location data for contact tracing? Are you being specifically asked about 
it by your management? 

I haven’t decided yet weather the vendors are being generally altruistic or 
opportunistic on this topic yet.

Regards,

Lee Badman (mobile)

**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

**
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RE: Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact Tracing

[Lee H Badman]

Thanks, Jeff. My thoughts are pretty close to yours on all of this, but it's 
good to hear from others. Should be interesting days to come.

Lee Badman | Network Architect (CWNE#200)
Information Technology Services
(NDD Group)
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   e lhbad...@syr.edu w its.syr.edu
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 12:10 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact 
Tracing

Lee,

Even without location services, one can get association data for a device and 
use that for rudimentary contact tracing.  I used it over the summer for a 
possible COVID case, and it was helpful in determining where the person was 
not. That is, it's not accurate enough to exclude people from the local area, 
but if the devices weren’t seen in other buildings, that was helpful.  I don't 
know that it would scale come students returning, and we're going to need 
something like Spaces to help.  Spaces looked very expensive however. 

We make use of an emergency notification product called Everbridge, and they 
are pitching a contact tracing support add-on to their mobile app where they 
bridge data from WiFi associations, door swipe, meal cards, and so on, all in 
an effort to provide more accurate information on a device/person.  Of course, 
that raises privacy concerns, so I'm still hopeful we'll see something 
compelling come from the Apple/Google partnership where we aren't holding onto 
data that must be protected and managed.

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:30 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact Tracing

I hope everyone on the list is doing well.

We are getting multiple vendor pitches these days for contact tracing 
“solutions”. From Cisco, our main network vendor, their pitch relies on DNA 
Spaces. We don’t use that yet,  and it’s no secret what is happening to many of 
our budgets.

 My question is specifically for Cisco legacy location services users. Are you 
all doing anything specific in anticipation of possibly needing to provide 
Wi-Fi location data for contact tracing? Are you being specifically asked about 
it by your management? 

I haven’t decided yet weather the vendors are being generally altruistic or 
opportunistic on this topic yet.

Regards,

Lee Badman (mobile)

**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

RE: Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact Tracing

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

Lee,

Even without location services, one can get association data for a device and 
use that for rudimentary contact tracing.  I used it over the summer for a 
possible COVID case, and it was helpful in determining where the person was 
not. That is, it's not accurate enough to exclude people from the local area, 
but if the devices weren’t seen in other buildings, that was helpful.  I don't 
know that it would scale come students returning, and we're going to need 
something like Spaces to help.  Spaces looked very expensive however. 

We make use of an emergency notification product called Everbridge, and they 
are pitching a contact tracing support add-on to their mobile app where they 
bridge data from WiFi associations, door swipe, meal cards, and so on, all in 
an effort to provide more accurate information on a device/person.  Of course, 
that raises privacy concerns, so I'm still hopeful we'll see something 
compelling come from the Apple/Google partnership where we aren't holding onto 
data that must be protected and managed.

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:30 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cisco pre-DNA Spaces Location Service, Contact Tracing

I hope everyone on the list is doing well.

We are getting multiple vendor pitches these days for contact tracing 
“solutions”. From Cisco, our main network vendor, their pitch relies on DNA 
Spaces. We don’t use that yet,  and it’s no secret what is happening to many of 
our budgets.

 My question is specifically for Cisco legacy location services users. Are you 
all doing anything specific in anticipation of possibly needing to provide 
Wi-Fi location data for contact tracing? Are you being specifically asked about 
it by your management? 

I haven’t decided yet weather the vendors are being generally altruistic or 
opportunistic on this topic yet.

Regards,

Lee Badman (mobile)

**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community