RE: Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

[Hector J Rios]

For the ARUBA shops, there is an Airwave module called Clarity that is supposed 
to provide additional troubleshooting capabilities to drill into performance 
issues. My two cents.

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 12:02 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

All:

I was recently approached by a vendor offering a wireless analysis software 
that combines the processing of AMON in conjunction with deep packet inspection 
(through collectors that are looking at all the traffic coming off of your 
controllers via SPAN or Taps).  I was impressed with what I saw.  The company 
has apparently been in stealth mode until about 5 weeks ago, so most on this 
list would not have heard of them.

They offer up Brandeis University as one of their early adopters.  Has anyone 
else had a chance to look into this yet?  The website isn't going to give you a 
lot.  If you go to Youtube, you'll find some round table demos that should give 
you an idea of the capabilities.

We have a few concerns...  High cost and the cloud based nature of the service 
(no way to house on prem at the time).  If you've looked at this and had time 
to formulate some thoughts, I would appreciate it.

Ryan Turner
Manager of Network Operations
ITS Communication Technologies
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

r...@unc.edu
+1 919 445 0113 Office
+1 919 274 7926 Mobile

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

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RE: Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

[Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services)]

Neil,

This is not a replacement for Airwave. Voyance analyzes THE NETWORK TRAFFIC & 
CLIENT EXPERIENCE. Airwave is more focused on hardware planning & monitoring. 

We are moving to the Ekahau solution for planning & site survey, though.

​
 
Bruce Osborne
Wireless Engineer
IT Network Services - Wireless
 
(434) 592-4229
 
LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
Training Champions for Christ since 1971


-Original Message-
From: Johnson, Neil M [mailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

For those of you who are Aruba shops, Do you see this as a replacement for 
Airwave? I didn’t see anything like Visual RF.

I looked at the demo, and while intriguing, at $30 per AP I’d have a hard time 
justifying the cost.

-Neil

-- 
Neil Johnson
Network Engineer
The University of Iowa
Phone: 319 384-0938
Fax: 319 335-2951
E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu



> On May 26, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) 
> <bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote:
> 
> I would have expected the cost to be a stopping point for management here as 
> well.
>  
> When management saw the benefits Voyance can provide, we now have plans to 
> deploy on all our wireless network instead of the limited PoC we have now.
>  
> ​
>  
> Bruce Osborne
> Wireless Engineer
> IT Network Services - Wireless
>  
> (434) 592-4229
>  
> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
> Training Champions for Christ since 1971
>  
> From: McClintic, Thomas [mailto:thomas.mcclin...@uth.tmc.edu] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 9:29 AM
> Subject: Re: Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?
>  
> Ryan,
>  
> Thank you for bringing this into the discussion. The cost turned us away from 
> it quickly. Adding a yearly line item in the budget, knowing that it will 
> grow is not easy to justify.
>  
> I hope they review the pricing model. I too am interested in any information 
> early adopters will share about actual pricing.
>  
> TJ McClintic
> Network Architect
>  
> UTHealth | The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston
> Houston’s Health University
> 
> Communications Technology | Network Operations
> 7000 Fannin | Suite M60 | Houston, TX  77030
> 713.486.9269 netops | 713.486.2271 office
>  
>  
>  
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 8:23 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?
>  
> I’m curious for those early adopters, how they were on cost.  Right now, 
> according to what they have told me, their pricing for education for 2,500 
> access points is 75,000 PER YEAR.  Now, we are going to be at 10,000 access 
> points.   You can do the math.  They have indicated a willingness to talk 
> about price, but I’m finding it hard to believe most shops are going to be 
> accommodating to that pricing level.  Please feel free to contact me off list 
> if you wish to share anything about your pricing.
>  
>  
> Ryan Turner
> Manager of Network Operations
> ITS Communication Technologies
> The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
>  
> r...@unc.edu
> +1 919 445 0113 Office
> +1 919 274 7926 Mobile
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe Rogers
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 9:17 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?
>  
> 
> We also have an 'early adoption' installation at USF.  We've found the client 
> performance data the system provides and the alerts it generates to be 
> helpful and accurate.  For example, we had a fairly large dDoS attack hit our 
> network a couple months ago and the Nyansa system clearly spotted the impact 
> this had on client experience.  The baseline comparisons are useful in 
> identifying areas needing the most attention and the product's ability to 
> monitor and report on critical services like DHCP, DNS and RADIUS helps 
> identify issues which may be affecting large numbers of clients.  The Nyansa 
> team has been very responsive and receptive to suggestions for product 
> improvements.
> 
> Joe Rogers 
> Associate Director, Network Engineering 
> 
> University of South Florida – Information Technology 
> 4202 E. Fowler Avenue, SVC4010, Tampa, FL, 33620 
> j...@usf.edu | Tel: (813) 974-7369 
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1OyTLdMH4D3_xwJnDfbPk1lQM8oX_QD92Do220QltH1CemyE-9m9moVq3qyqH1d7d0rkbx3pY4BTrpPFnre5DTmzQN0LsJXcFlY6ae3H8T0zYG8bLtw8gsvinNJAsDP1blsAMdQ4xPPXJOylWNIH8dB3D-slzowbZZSdO3OUhB0f-DxJWxXyyUPPyIM2P3bx_MXA

RE: Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

[Curtis L. Parish]

We were interested in looking at the Voyance until the Nyansa person  said he 
did not know that Extreme had  a wireless solution.   ☺


 Curtis Parish
 615.494.8861
Senior Network Engineer
Middle Tennessee State University
[wordmark_web]



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W 
(Network Services)
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 6:22 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

I would have expected the cost to be a stopping point for management here as 
well.

When management saw the benefits Voyance can provide, we now have plans to 
deploy on all our wireless network instead of the limited PoC we have now.

​

Bruce Osborne
Wireless Engineer
IT Network Services - Wireless

(434) 592-4229

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
Training Champions for Christ since 1971

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

[Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services)]

I would have expected the cost to be a stopping point for management here as 
well.

When management saw the benefits Voyance can provide, we now have plans to 
deploy on all our wireless network instead of the limited PoC we have now.

​

Bruce Osborne
Wireless Engineer
IT Network Services - Wireless

(434) 592-4229

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
Training Champions for Christ since 1971

From: McClintic, Thomas [mailto:thomas.mcclin...@uth.tmc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

Ryan,

Thank you for bringing this into the discussion. The cost turned us away from 
it quickly. Adding a yearly line item in the budget, knowing that it will grow 
is not easy to justify.

I hope they review the pricing model. I too am interested in any information 
early adopters will share about actual pricing.

TJ McClintic
Network Architect

UTHealth | The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston
Houston’s Health University

Communications Technology | Network Operations
7000 Fannin | Suite M60 | Houston, TX  77030
713.486.9269 netops | 713.486.2271 office



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 8:23 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

I’m curious for those early adopters, how they were on cost.  Right now, 
according to what they have told me, their pricing for education for 2,500 
access points is 75,000 PER YEAR.  Now, we are going to be at 10,000 access 
points.   You can do the math.  They have indicated a willingness to talk about 
price, but I’m finding it hard to believe most shops are going to be 
accommodating to that pricing level.  Please feel free to contact me off list 
if you wish to share anything about your pricing.


Ryan Turner
Manager of Network Operations
ITS Communication Technologies
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

r...@unc.edu<mailto:r...@unc.edu>
+1 919 445 0113 Office
+1 919 274 7926 Mobile





From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe Rogers
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 9:17 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?


We also have an 'early adoption' installation at USF.  We've found the client 
performance data the system provides and the alerts it generates to be helpful 
and accurate.  For example, we had a fairly large dDoS attack hit our network a 
couple months ago and the Nyansa system clearly spotted the impact this had on 
client experience.  The baseline comparisons are useful in identifying areas 
needing the most attention and the product's ability to monitor and report on 
critical services like DHCP, DNS and RADIUS helps identify issues which may be 
affecting large numbers of clients.  The Nyansa team has been very responsive 
and receptive to suggestions for product improvements.

Joe Rogers
Associate Director, Network Engineering

University of South Florida – Information Technology
4202 E. Fowler Avenue, SVC4010, Tampa, FL, 33620
j...@usf.edu<mailto:j...@usf.edu> | Tel: (813) 974-7369
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1OyTLdMH4D3_xwJnDfbPk1lQM8oX_QD92Do220QltH1CemyE-9m9moVq3qyqH1d7d0rkbx3pY4BTrpPFnre5DTmzQN0LsJXcFlY6ae3H8T0zYG8bLtw8gsvinNJAsDP1blsAMdQ4xPPXJOylWNIH8dB3D-slzowbZZSdO3OUhB0f-DxJWxXyyUPPyIM2P3bx_MXANbWRicD-jj_m-zzKYk34rhr0d7eYUgt1Fxx_VkPZsdbhVRVTtBiX45cLxbhvU/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usf.edu%2Fit<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__secure-2Dweb.cisco.com_1OyTLdMH4D3-5FxwJnDfbPk1lQM8oX-5FQD92Do220QltH1CemyE-2D9m9moVq3qyqH1d7d0rkbx3pY4BTrpPFnre5DTmzQN0LsJXcFlY6ae3H8T0zYG8bLtw8gsvinNJAsDP1blsAMdQ4xPPXJOylWNIH8dB3D-2DslzowbZZSdO3OUhB0f-2DDxJWxXyyUPPyIM2P3bx-5FMXANbWRicD-2Djj-5Fm-2DzzKYk34rhr0d7eYUgt1Fxx-5FVkPZsdbhVRVTtBiX45cLxbhvU_http-253A-252F-252Fwww.usf.edu-252Fit=CwMFAg=6vgNTiRn9_pqCD9hKx9JgXN1VapJQ8JVoF8oWH1AgfQ=rYfqH_8oTvcXxRxUI3x3m3Y7Nwgir7tnuoGbdZsrUM4=yQDlobEGJhXuGChoh5U1tv5ioCo8LIibyjJ8LZ5tgLQ=8fPiUnTxkJ3jbdHuQx-Bx5cnmm3lxmAlLSovlQ31rjc=>
 | Facebook: /USF Information Technology | Twitter: @ USF_IT
On 05/24/2016 01:01 PM, Turner, Ryan H wrote:
All:

I was recently approached by a vendor offering a wireless analysis software 
that combines the processing of AMON in conjunction with deep packet inspection 
(through collectors that are looking at all the traffic coming off of your 
controllers via SPAN or Taps).  I was impressed with what I saw.  The company 
has apparently been in stealth mode until about 5 weeks ago, so most on this 
list would not have heard of them.

They offer up Brandeis University as one of their early adopters.  Has anyone 
else had a chance to look into this yet?  The website isn’t going to give you a 
lot.  If you go to Youtube

Re: Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

[Mike Fitzgerald]

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for that heads up.  MAC's going stale could be a problem.  I haven't 
really fleshed out all the details yet.  Someone else has been engineering the 
wireless in the past and I'm now taking more of it back after some staffing 
changes.

Yes, TLS.  That's on the list also, but I want more stable connectivity first. 
Besides, I think the password change issue can be thought of as a teachable 
moment.  

I think we sometimes make it too easy on the end-users, allowing them to be far 
too unaware of how all this technology actually works and what to do when it 
doesn't.  Teach a man to fish...

Mike
fi...@brandeis.edu

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

[Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services)]

At Liberty, we currently only have a limited Voyance deployment. It has been 
useful in troubleshooting, but we need to get it monitoring the rest of our 
wireless network in order for it to be most effective.

I agree that Nyansa support has been extremely helpful and very receptive to 
"constructive criticism" and suggestions for improvement.

​
 
Bruce Osborne
Wireless Engineer
IT Network Services - Wireless
 
(434) 592-4229
 
LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
Training Champions for Christ since 1971


-Original Message-
From: Norton, Thomas (IT Operations Admin) [mailto:tnort...@liberty.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

Hey Mike, 

We have had the same experience since deploying Nyansa earlier this year. I 
don't think I could have said that better myself.  Overall it has been a great 
experience. 

T.J.

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Fitzgerald
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 2:35 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

Ryan,

As you noted, Brandeis is an early adopter.  We've been involved since last 
summer.  We were impressed with the amount of data Voyance tracks and reports, 
as well as the Nyansa engineering team's willingness to incorporate our input 
into the product.

We have their monitor (AKA the Crawler) on mirror ports from all of our 
wireless controller up-links so it sees all the client traffic to/from wireless 
clients and everything they talk to.  When things go amiss, Voyance alerts and 
lets you drill down to identify underlying cause.  Those alerts are based on 
variations from what is considered "normal" for our environment, based on 
Voyance's data collection over time.  We can tune those thresholds and triggers 
as needed to help avoid false alerts.

In one place, we can not only see the client wireless experience, but also 
their experience with interactions the client and  DHCP, DNS, RADIUS and web 
traffic.  

When we're not getting active alerts, their reporting tools are great for 
looking at trends, comparisons and even drilling down from a different angle.  
We can compare AP-group-to-AP-group, building-to-building, as well as how 
Brandeis compares (anonymously)  to other Voyance customer network sites to get 
a feel for how we're doing compared to other schools and/or businesses with 
similar sized networks.

We're already talking about some infrastructure changes in response to some 
unexpected behaviors we were able to detect with Voyance.

Mike

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

[Mike Fitzgerald]

Ryan,

It's been pretty good at least in getting you to the right area (wifi vs 
dns/dhcp/radius) and also calling out things within wifi (weak signal, client 
hopping SSID, SNR issues) and it seems to be getting better and better as time 
goes on.  One of the things I really like is that new features/intelligence 
just start showing up without having to download code, etc.  They just update 
things in the cloud and you have immediate access.

As to client troubleshooting, I've been trying to use Voyance as the first 
tool. I may then go into a vendor-specific tool to really get specific but by 
the time I do that, Voyance has told me at what I should be taking a closer 
look.  It doesn't try to narrow it down to one root cause, but rather 
recommends one or more things that you should investigate based upon the 
symptoms it detected. I don't know that I can put a percentage on it, but it 
has been pretty accurate in the recommendations.

As to changes, we're an Aruba wireless shop. Multiple controllers but different 
IP spaces so as users moved around campus and jump from one controller to 
another, they see L2 re-transmits, ARP failures, etc. as their IP address goes 
out of service.  This was pretty clear to see with the "timeline" feature that 
actually lets you watch step by step a client's  connection history, not only 
to an given AP or controller, but what vlan/ip space, ssid, etc,  We're 
planning to change the controller config so that all controllers have the same 
vlans/ip spaces, in the same order and then turn up hash-based vlan selection 
so that once your device gets an IP to start the day, you keep that same IP as 
you hop controller to controller and we hope that will smooth the transitions 
and cut back on the L2 re-transmits, ARP misses, etc.

Voyance also reported a fair amount of SSID hopping issues we didn't know were 
going on. Using that timeline feature, I figured out it was related to turning 
up password change enforcement.  We have Eduroam as our primary 802.1x SSID and 
brandeis_open for things that can't do 802.1x. Once a device connects to 
802.1x, we tag its entry in the endpoint database as being 802.1x capable.  The 
brandeis_open SSID checks for that tag and if it exists, tells you to go back 
to Eduroam, waits a short time and drops your connection.  People were changing 
their passwords via our portal but their old cached passwords were still on 
their Eduroam config on things like smart phones, etc.  That connection would 
fail, their device would then hop to brandeis_open, which would see them as 
802.1x capable and tell them to go away and the device would try Eduroam again. 
Back and forth between the two SSID's, over and over.  The timeline showed the 
SSID hop but we could also see the radius login failure due to rejected 
credentials in between.  Light bulb moment!.  We'll be adding text to our 
password change portal to remind people to forget and reconnect to Eduroam on 
all their devices after a password change.  Being able to more easily see these 
types of things makes Voyance a winner for me, as those more global things are 
generally hardest to see, especially in the case of things are not hard 
failures.

Mike
fi...@brandeis.edu

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: Nyansa Voyance - thoughts?

[Mike Fitzgerald]

Ryan,

As you noted, Brandeis is an early adopter.  We've been involved since last 
summer.  We were impressed with the amount of data Voyance tracks and reports, 
as well as the Nyansa engineering team's willingness to incorporate our input 
into the product.

We have their monitor (AKA the Crawler) on mirror ports from all of our 
wireless controller up-links so it sees all the client traffic to/from wireless 
clients and everything they talk to.  When things go amiss, Voyance alerts and 
lets you drill down to identify underlying cause.  Those alerts are based on 
variations from what is considered "normal" for our environment, based on 
Voyance's data collection over time.  We can tune those thresholds and triggers 
as needed to help avoid false alerts.

In one place, we can not only see the client wireless experience, but also 
their experience with interactions the client and  DHCP, DNS, RADIUS and web 
traffic.  

When we're not getting active alerts, their reporting tools are great for 
looking at trends, comparisons and even drilling down from a different angle.  
We can compare AP-group-to-AP-group, building-to-building, as well as how 
Brandeis compares (anonymously)  to other Voyance customer network sites to get 
a feel for how we're doing compared to other schools and/or businesses with 
similar sized networks.

We're already talking about some infrastructure changes in response to some 
unexpected behaviors we were able to detect with Voyance.

Mike

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.