RE: Wireless printers and other devices in residence halls

[Osborne, Bruce W (Network Operations)]

Here is one of our approaches that may or may not work for you.

We had a delay in funding for upgrading part of our wireless system. When 
students complained, we suggested they complain to the school management. That 
helped us get the funding needed.


Bruce Osborne
Senior Network Engineer
Network Operations - Wireless
 (434) 592-4229
LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
Training Champions for Christ since 1971

From: Chuck Enfield [mailto:chu...@psu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Wireless printers and other devices in residence halls

While I agree with all the justifications offered below, I don’t recommend 
going there if you can avoid it.  If somebody wants to challenge a business 
case based on those things there will be plenty of opportunity to do that.  I 
value a good business case more than most, but a determined bean-counter will 
always get their way if you make it about counting beans.  Remove them from the 
equation if you can.

Instead, it’s pretty easy to convince IT leaders that administrative approaches 
to these problems rarely work and frustrate the user community.  The network 
has to work, and we want our users to be happy, so administrative approaches 
aren’t desirable.  Once the leadership has agreed to that general principle, 
you don’t have to weigh the tradeoffs between technical and administrative 
approaches each time a new challenge emerges.  Challenges with technical 
solutions get the technical solution and the network just costs what it costs.  
Challenges without technical solutions get administrative stop-gaps until a 
technical solution emerges.

Chuck

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 1:39 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless printers and other devices in residence 
halls

The way to present that 30+% increase in capital investment is to talk about 
the FTE resources it frees up, caps, or eliminates i.e. by increasing density 
the need for residential life/IT to police personal devices is significantly 
reduced/eliminated, freeing up or eliminating [x]FTE for other mission-aligned 
activities. There isn’t a CBO/CFO alive that doesn’t react well to proposals 
that cap/reduce FTE investments in exchange for capital investment. Hardware 
doesn’t require 34% benefits, raises, and so on.

Spend $10,000 for 20 more APs, or spend $650,000 in salary/benefits over five 
years to hire an RF engineer to go out and find these problems. Even when 
pitted against a $20/hr user support position, it’s still $10,000 for 20 APs, 
or $265,000 salary/benefits over five years for that person to do policing.

In other words, you have to add a lot of APs before you get close to the cost 
of a single FTE.

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 10:06 AM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless printers and other devices in residence 
halls

You’re correct, but it just sucks that we now have to justify a 30+% increase 
in capital spent on wireless infrastructure for something that (at least 
according to those who manage the budgets) worked fine 5 years ago, AKA why do 
you need to put 50 APs in a building that once had 30?

Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 11:13 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless printers and other devices in residence 
halls

If you move your design planning toward dense 5GHz and designate 2.4 as a 
legacy wasteland, these devices have little impact. Even if these devices more 
toward 5GHz, the abundance of channels coupled with low signal propagation and 
vendor channel management e.g. DCA in Cisco speak, greatly enhance coexistence. 
Since you mention Cisco, use of CleanAir equipped APs in residence halls (even 
in small quantities) provide s

RE: Wireless printers and other devices in residence halls

[Osborne, Bruce W (Network Operations)]

One easy answer:

More & more devices per person. This increases system load and interference.


Bruce Osborne
Senior Network Engineer
Network Operations - Wireless
 (434) 592-4229
LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
Training Champions for Christ since 1971

From: Thomas Carter [mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu]
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Wireless printers and other devices in residence halls

You’re correct, but it just sucks that we now have to justify a 30+% increase 
in capital spent on wireless infrastructure for something that (at least 
according to those who manage the budgets) worked fine 5 years ago, AKA why do 
you need to put 50 APs in a building that once had 30?

Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 11:13 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless printers and other devices in residence 
halls

If you move your design planning toward dense 5GHz and designate 2.4 as a 
legacy wasteland, these devices have little impact. Even if these devices more 
toward 5GHz, the abundance of channels coupled with low signal propagation and 
vendor channel management e.g. DCA in Cisco speak, greatly enhance coexistence. 
Since you mention Cisco, use of CleanAir equipped APs in residence halls (even 
in small quantities) provide significant RF visibility, and you’ll know exactly 
what’s out there and impacting your environment.

That’s a long way of saying you will never legislate these devices out of 
existence, and it’s far better to invest resources in technology that help with 
coexistence vs expending energy on confiscating/banning them.

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of "Davis, Steve" <sda...@lockhaven.edu<mailto:sda...@lockhaven.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 8:06 AM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless printers and other devices in residence halls

I wanted to get an idea how everyone is handling students bringing in all types 
of wireless devices, which are basically access points.  We have so many 
printers, TVs, Roku devices, game systems and who knows what else out there in 
the student rooms and these devices are causing issues with our campus wireless 
network.

Do you allow these devices on your network?  If not, how do you prevent the 
students from having them?

I have Cisco wireless controllers where I can block rogue APs but that keeps 
the APs which are containing the rogue AP from servicing the clients and I 
don’t have dense enough coverage to be able to do this for every rogue device.

Thanks in advance
-Steve

Steve Davis | Network Manager
Department of Technology Infrastructure

Lock Haven University
519 Robinson Hall
401 North Fairview Street, Lock Haven, PA 17745
Phone: 570-484-2290 | sda...@lockhaven.edu<mailto:sda...@lockhaven.edu> | 
www.lockhaven.edu<http://www.lockhaven.edu/>

Connect with us: Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/LockHavenUniv/> | 
Twitter<https://twitter.com/LockHavenUniv> | 
YouTube<https://www.youtube.com/user/LHU1870>

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
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**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

RE: Wireless printers and other devices in residence halls

[Thomas Carter]

We were just having this conversation in-house this morning. The problem isn't 
APs - its printers, TVs, Rokus, Amazon Fire TVs, Playstations, etc. We don't 
have the people to manage the quantity that are out there (probably 1 in 4 or 5 
rooms have something broadcasting). They don't realize their HP printer that is 
connected via USB is also broadcasting Wifi. And they don't know that their 
Roku/Fire Stick/Vizio TV is using WiFi for the connection to the remote 
control, and there's no way to turn it off. There's also no way to tell this 
many students to take those devices off campus (and there would probably be a 
riot about it). The terrible idea that is WiFi Direct is polluting the 
airwaves. And while it's primarily 2.4GHz now, I'm sure it's coming to 5GHz 
soon.  We're at a bit of a loss for how to really handle this issue.

Another increasing issue is mobile hotspots from phones. These only pop up on 
off hours and are difficult to track down and "prove" who was doing it.

Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hales, David
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 10:14 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless printers and other devices in residence 
halls

Our residence hall policy and campus acceptable use policy specify that 
students are not allowed to connect routers, switches, or access points to the 
wired network, or operate independent wireless access points in campus 
facilities.  Our NAC and switches are able to handle any that get plugged into 
wired drops.  We don't have too many wireless issues caused by rogue APs, but 
when we detect an issue related to one, we locate them rather than mitigate 
them.  We haven't run into one where the student was really trying to hide an 
AP, so we can usually localize it to a room or two, and then residential life 
finds them during one of their room inspections.  Usually the student is just 
ignorant of the policy violation, and packs the device away.  We haven't had 
any really rebellious students that insisted on bringing the device back online 
at a later time.

David Hales
Network Systems Administrator
Information Technology Services
1010 N. Peachtree
Clement Hall 117
Cookeville, TN 38505
P 931-372-3983
F 931-372-6130
E dha...@tntech.edu
www.tntech.edu/its
[Tennessee Tech Logo]
[TTU Facebook]  [TTU Twitter]  
 [TTU Instagram]  
 [TTU Youtube]  
 [TTU Pintrest] 


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Davis, Steve
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 9:56 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless printers and other devices in residence halls

I wanted to get an idea how everyone is handling students bringing in all types 
of wireless devices, which are basically access points.  We have so many 
printers, TVs, Roku devices, game systems and who knows what else out there in 
the student rooms and these devices are causing issues with our campus wireless 
network.

Do you allow these devices on your network?  If not, how do you prevent the 
students from having them?

I have Cisco wireless controllers where I can block rogue APs but that keeps 
the APs which are containing the rogue AP from servicing the clients and I 
don't have dense enough coverage to be able to do this for every rogue device.

Thanks in advance
-Steve

Steve Davis | Network Manager
Department of Technology Infrastructure

Lock Haven University
519 Robinson Hall
401 North Fairview Street, Lock Haven, PA 17745
Phone: 570-484-2290 | sda...@lockhaven.edu | 
www.lockhaven.edu

Connect with us: Facebook | 
Twitter | 
YouTube

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

RE: Wireless printers and other devices in residence halls

[Hales, David]

Our residence hall policy and campus acceptable use policy specify that 
students are not allowed to connect routers, switches, or access points to the 
wired network, or operate independent wireless access points in campus 
facilities.  Our NAC and switches are able to handle any that get plugged into 
wired drops.  We don't have too many wireless issues caused by rogue APs, but 
when we detect an issue related to one, we locate them rather than mitigate 
them.  We haven't run into one where the student was really trying to hide an 
AP, so we can usually localize it to a room or two, and then residential life 
finds them during one of their room inspections.  Usually the student is just 
ignorant of the policy violation, and packs the device away.  We haven't had 
any really rebellious students that insisted on bringing the device back online 
at a later time.

David Hales
Network Systems Administrator
Information Technology Services
1010 N. Peachtree
Clement Hall 117
Cookeville, TN 38505
P 931-372-3983
F 931-372-6130
E dha...@tntech.edu
www.tntech.edu/its
[Tennessee Tech Logo]
[TTU Facebook]  [TTU Twitter]  
 [TTU Instagram]  
 [TTU Youtube]  
 [TTU Pintrest] 


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Davis, Steve
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 9:56 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless printers and other devices in residence halls

I wanted to get an idea how everyone is handling students bringing in all types 
of wireless devices, which are basically access points.  We have so many 
printers, TVs, Roku devices, game systems and who knows what else out there in 
the student rooms and these devices are causing issues with our campus wireless 
network.

Do you allow these devices on your network?  If not, how do you prevent the 
students from having them?

I have Cisco wireless controllers where I can block rogue APs but that keeps 
the APs which are containing the rogue AP from servicing the clients and I 
don't have dense enough coverage to be able to do this for every rogue device.

Thanks in advance
-Steve

Steve Davis | Network Manager
Department of Technology Infrastructure

Lock Haven University
519 Robinson Hall
401 North Fairview Street, Lock Haven, PA 17745
Phone: 570-484-2290 | sda...@lockhaven.edu | 
www.lockhaven.edu

Connect with us: Facebook | 
Twitter | 
YouTube

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.