Re: [WiX-users] New Official Installation Technology? CBS? What?
Rob Mensching wrote: Is MSI that bad? I mean, I know that declarative programming is very different from procedural programming but the Windows Installer handles a lot of things very well. Probably my biggest gripe is that the Component Rules suck. Is there something you think is worse in MSI? One of my biggest gripes with MSI so far is that it dead slow (which is, of course, a very subjective impression). I understand that the amount of work MSI is doing under the hood takes some time and I don't expect the security given by the MSI way (ability to rollback, repair options, clean uninstall) coming for free, and in my eyes the advantages of MSI(/Wix) outweigh the disadvantages (that's why I ended up using it, after all...) However, an installation time exceeding e.g. a quick-and-dirty NSIS based install by a factor of four(!, and I had even worse cases) is hard to explain to both management and customers. Maybe I am doing something completely wrong, but I don't have the feeling my installers behave worse than other MSI based installers of applications of comparable size, so I don't feel too guilty yet... Andre' - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] New Official Installation Technology? CBS? What?
André Pönitz wrote: One of my biggest gripes with MSI so far is that it dead slow (which is, of course, a very subjective impression). Not so subjective when it comes to patching... VS2005 SP1 took 6 hours on one machine here. 30 minutes even to get to the EULA. Average is 2-3 hours. Much longer than it takes to install the product in the first place... There was a blog entry a while back where they explained what the problem was... to do with the way MSI does everything in memory IIRC - it can't stream a large patch from disk so you end up with your machine mostly in swap (650mb for the patch + working space for the transformations on a 32bit machine is getting close to the limits). Tony - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] New Official Installation Technology? CBS? What?
Tony Hoyle wrote:
André Pönitz wrote:
One of my biggest gripes with MSI so far is that it dead slow
(which is, of course, a very subjective impression).
Not so subjective when it comes to patching... VS2005 SP1 took 6 hours
on one machine here. 30 minutes even to get to the EULA.
It took here more than a minute to show any kind of progress
(including the initial 'Wait' screen) so in my first attempt
I managed to start three of those beasts because I thought
I might have failed to click on the right link...
Average is 2-3 hours. Much longer than it takes to install
the product in the first place...
Been there, done that. Unfortunately ;-{
And deinstallation (service pack alone) takes the same time, if not more...
There was a blog entry a while back where they explained what the
problem was... to do with the way MSI does everything in memory IIRC -
it can't stream a large patch from disk so you end up with your machine
mostly in swap (650mb for the patch + working space for the
transformations on a 32bit machine is getting close to the limits).
I have 1G of RAM here, and even though I don't remember the exact times
of the VS2005 SP1 installation I do know that while VS2005 SP1 was
deinstalling I set up and configured one and a half virtual machines
with *cough* undisclosed operating systems. Complete with compiler and
all the stuff nobody ever needs (I need 14 of them in the end, *sigh*)
Of course, this happend on a second machine, the one deinstalling
VS SP1 was not exacly usable in that time...
The positive aspect of this is that with the proliferation of msi based
installers one does not look too bad when compared with the average ;-)
Andre'
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Re: [WiX-users] New Official Installation Technology? CBS? What?
André Pönitz wrote: Rob Mensching wrote: Is MSI that bad? I mean, I know that declarative programming is very different from procedural programming but the Windows Installer handles a lot of things very well. Probably my biggest gripe is that the Component Rules suck. Is there something you think is worse in MSI? One of my biggest gripes with MSI so far is that it dead slow (which is, of course, a very subjective impression). Point two is the inability to nest (foreign .msi) installers btw. Andre' PS: Is there a simple way to figure out which (installed) file belongs to which component of which packages? - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] New Official Installation Technology? CBS? What?
On 11/30/06, Rob Mensching [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I used to work on CBS (that's the team I just quit). Trust me, it is the latest but it certainly isn't the greatest. smile/ Are you suggesting that it can get worse than MSI? :-) - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] New Official Installation Technology? CBS? What?
Is MSI that bad? I mean, I know that declarative programming is very different from procedural programming but the Windows Installer handles a lot of things very well. Probably my biggest gripe is that the Component Rules suck. Is there something you think is worse in MSI? What I really meant to suggest is that CBS is tailored to install the operating system. There are design decisions you can make when installing an OS that don't pan out well when installing applications (for example, think about how much easier an OS upgrade is from an application upgrade). CBS isn't documented because (based on many design decisions) it isn't useful outside of the OS. However, I do believe you can create an installer that installs both applications and operating systems if you plan for it. After being on the teams that installed Office and then Vista, I'm pretty convinced that installing applications is harder than installing the OS. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Palmer Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:58 To: wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [WiX-users] New Official Installation Technology? CBS? What? On 11/30/06, Rob Mensching [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I used to work on CBS (that's the team I just quit). Trust me, it is the latest but it certainly isn't the greatest. smile/ Are you suggesting that it can get worse than MSI? :-) - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
[WiX-users] New Official Installation Technology? CBS? What?
I saw this while doing some digging as to why PowerShell RTM isn't available for Vista: http://blogs.msdn.com/powershell/archive/2006/11/15/windows-powershell-w indows-vista.aspx So what's the difference between the Vista and XP/Server release of PowerShell? Is it just the installer? Why does it take 2 more months? Yes - the only difference is the installer. Being an official Windows component means you use the official windows installation technology and on Vista that is the new CBS technology. There is exactly one team in the world that can build this and that team has been a tad busy (While I sometimes think that PowerShell is more important that Vista - I just can't seem to ever convince other people of that. :-) ). PowerShell is the world's first Vista OutOfBand release. There are a few pain points that come with that honor. Nothing serious but there are just some things that are different and need a bit of time to work out. They are a great team and are doing great work, they just need a bit of time. Cheers! Jeffrey Snover [MSFT] Windows PowerShell/MMC Architect What? Isn't the Windows Installer the latest and greatest installation technology? Joel Peterson Quality Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] New Official Installation Technology? CBS? What?
I used to work on CBS (that's the team I just quit). Trust me, it is the latest but it certainly isn't the greatest. smile/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peterson, Joel Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 16:14 To: wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [WiX-users] New Official Installation Technology? CBS? What? I saw this while doing some digging as to why PowerShell RTM isn't available for Vista: http://blogs.msdn.com/powershell/archive/2006/11/15/windows-powershell-windows-vista.aspx So what's the difference between the Vista and XP/Server release of PowerShell? Is it just the installer? Why does it take 2 more months? Yes - the only difference is the installer. Being an official Windows component means you use the official windows installation technology and on Vista that is the new CBS technology. There is exactly one team in the world that can build this and that team has been a tad busy (While I sometimes think that PowerShell is more important that Vista - I just can't seem to ever convince other people of that. :-) ). PowerShell is the world's first Vista OutOfBand release. There are a few pain points that come with that honor. Nothing serious but there are just some things that are different and need a bit of time to work out. They are a great team and are doing great work, they just need a bit of time. Cheers! Jeffrey Snover [MSFT] Windows PowerShell/MMC Architect What? Isn't the Windows Installer the latest and greatest installation technology? Joel Peterson Quality Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
