Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
If you want an example of how **not** to do an installer the SQL Server is the one to go for! It is not the Windows Installer parts that are bad it is the bootstrapped that warps it all up. I had SQL server Express 2012 on my server a few months ago, had to uninstall it to clear out some errors, and are you kidding me? -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
He's just installing the product itself and I think that it downloads .net if not already installed. I talked to him about it last night, and he said that because it was crunch time and beta time, he simply wanted a quick solution with less of a learning curve in order to get the product out in a timely fashion. -Original Message- From: Rob Mensching [mailto:r...@robmensching.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:51 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. Subject: Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective It seems a bit unfair to blame MSI for the SQL Server install. On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.eduwrote: Thanks; I wish that MSI could prove so simple for users though in some of Microsoft's own products. Example? I had SQL server Express 2012 on my server a few months ago, had to uninstall it to clear out some errors, and are you kidding me? I had to reinstall the operating system to reinstall it! Components got left behind, network share errors abound (I was not even installing from the network!), third-party uninstaller tools did not show the seemingly existing components, and still no explanation from the sQL server team at Microsoft! What does that tell you about MSI? It still appears to have it's defects. Unless my case was an isolated incident? -Original Message- From: Christopher Painter [mailto:chr...@iswix.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 7:25 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset.; General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. ( wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net) Subject: Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective MSI is complicated. Setup is complicated. There is a learning curve but once you nail it, it's easy for your users. The key to MSI is that it's declarative (functional programming), transactional and has standardized support for upgrades, patches, uninstall, repair, silent and so on. Learn how to do all this and you can crank out massively complex, scalable installers with very low defect rates. Try to do that in any procedural (Wise, InstallScript, PowerShell, VBScript, .BAT, NSIS, Inno, whatever..) language and you'll quickly find yourself with tomes of buggy code and inconsistent installation behavior. I did the latter for 6 years before switching to MSI. I've been doing MSI for 10 years. You can take what I say to the bank. From: Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:46 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. (wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net) wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective Hi guys, Since I am just learning to be a .NET C# programmer, can somebody shed light on why using WiX over something like Inno would be more complicated and why programmers are often less compelled to use WiX? I'm asking this because my friend has got a project he's working on where the main programmer is insistent on using Inno instead of WiX. It's bothering me because if my friend wants his product to be more administrator-friendly and compatible with group policy, doesn't he need to be using MSI technologies? I mean, he wants that administrative/ease-of-deployment across multiple servers/workstations edge, but is he going to get it using Inno? And if not, then what can I say to these people to help dispel the supposed complications of Windows Installer? Thanks. -- -- -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business.
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
Oh really? Nasty; I mean, why not just use a standard UI for that anyway rather than that very complicated and non user friendly interface? I'm not talking about accessibility here; some sighted individuals struggle with it as well. Maybe we should talk to them about that? I tried over on the message boards, but all I got was a continuous scripted answer in a continuous loop when I'd post more info; the answer was the same. -Original Message- From: Neil Sleightholm [mailto:n...@x2systems.com] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 2:49 AM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset.; chr...@iswix.com Subject: Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective If you want an example of how **not** to do an installer the SQL Server is the one to go for! It is not the Windows Installer parts that are bad it is the bootstrapped that warps it all up. I had SQL server Express 2012 on my server a few months ago, had to uninstall it to clear out some errors, and are you kidding me? -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
On 05/10/2012 17:23, Katherine Moss wrote: Oh really? Nasty; I mean, why not just use a standard UI for that anyway rather than that very complicated and non user friendly interface? I'm not talking about accessibility here; some sighted individuals struggle with it as well. Maybe we should talk to them about that? I tried over on the message boards, but all I got was a continuous scripted answer in a continuous loop when I'd post more info; the answer was the same. The problem will be that the bootstrapper is needed due to limitations of Windows Installer. Burn isn't ideal either since it requires people to write code (C++ or .NET) for the UI and install callbacks and so adds potential for bugs. -- Bruce Cran -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
Hey Katherine, For the past 20 years I have been using various InstallShield products, InstallAware, Wise Studio etc... When I first found out the company I work for was using WIX I shuddered... but now after using it for 5 weeks it's pretty good (and free), there have been some hiccups but that is to be expected. IMHO, if your installing a Windows application no matter what it is, you use a tool that is using MSI technology, you get so much for free (Updates/upgrades/ARP/rollbacks/Windows standard API's etc... etc...) why would you want to use something that is not using MSI technology?? Plus C#, VB, C++ custom action support). INNO uses Pascal scripting? Was built using Delphi? Who the heck uses Pascal scripting or Delphi? Steve -Original Message- From: Katherine Moss [mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu] Sent: October-04-12 3:43 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. (wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net) Subject: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective Hi guys, Since I am just learning to be a .NET C# programmer, can somebody shed light on why using WiX over something like Inno would be more complicated and why programmers are often less compelled to use WiX? I'm asking this because my friend has got a project he's working on where the main programmer is insistent on using Inno instead of WiX. It's bothering me because if my friend wants his product to be more administrator-friendly and compatible with group policy, doesn't he need to be using MSI technologies? I mean, he wants that administrative/ease-of-deployment across multiple servers/workstations edge, but is he going to get it using Inno? And if not, then what can I say to these people to help dispel the supposed complications of Windows Installer? Thanks. -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
I don't know much about Inno, but reasons for us to use MSI include: - rollbacks - patches (i.e., replacing less than full files), including with rollbacks - logging - integrates with Windows directly - and, maybe in the future, SCCM connections - Visual Studio integration (not as important now, but while we were learning, it helped) - Windows Installer terminology (which is admittedly double edged as a virtue) Keith Douglas Statistics Canada | 170 Tunney's Pasture Driveway, Ottawa ON K1A 0T6 Statistique Canada | 170, promenade Tunney's Pasture, Ottawa ON K1A 0T6 keith.doug...@statcan.gc.ca Telephone | Téléphone 613-951-4405 Facsimile | Télécopieur 613-951-1966 Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada -Original Message- From: Katherine Moss [mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu] Sent: October-04-12 3:43 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. (wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net) Subject: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective Hi guys, Since I am just learning to be a .NET C# programmer, can somebody shed light on why using WiX over something like Inno would be more complicated and why programmers are often less compelled to use WiX? I'm asking this because my friend has got a project he's working on where the main programmer is insistent on using Inno instead of WiX. It's bothering me because if my friend wants his product to be more administrator-friendly and compatible with group policy, doesn't he need to be using MSI technologies? I mean, he wants that administrative/ease-of-deployment across multiple servers/workstations edge, but is he going to get it using Inno? And if not, then what can I say to these people to help dispel the supposed complications of Windows Installer? Thanks. -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
Yeah; I know all about this, though I'll be learning more. And what you said about VS integration, you guys should develop full integration with VS; all project types including patches and what not, dialogue editors, and wizards. But anyway, that's another topic for another day. Well, I don't know. This guy's insistent on what is easier for him, and I won't lie, where it's taken me hundreds of searches on the Internet to learn about Windows Installer and even now I still don't get it with all of this DTF stuff thrown in as well, it only took me a couple of look-throughs of the Inno help file, so I see where this guy's coming from. I just have to hound him, I guess and possibly get myself kicked off the project? -Original Message- From: keith.doug...@statcan.gc.ca [mailto:keith.doug...@statcan.gc.ca] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 3:57 PM To: wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective I don't know much about Inno, but reasons for us to use MSI include: - rollbacks - patches (i.e., replacing less than full files), including with rollbacks - logging - integrates with Windows directly - and, maybe in the future, SCCM connections - Visual Studio integration (not as important now, but while we were learning, it helped) - Windows Installer terminology (which is admittedly double edged as a virtue) Keith Douglas Statistics Canada | 170 Tunney's Pasture Driveway, Ottawa ON K1A 0T6 Statistique Canada | 170, promenade Tunney's Pasture, Ottawa ON K1A 0T6 keith.doug...@statcan.gc.ca Telephone | Téléphone 613-951-4405 Facsimile | Télécopieur 613-951-1966 Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada -Original Message- From: Katherine Moss [mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu] Sent: October-04-12 3:43 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. (wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net) Subject: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective Hi guys, Since I am just learning to be a .NET C# programmer, can somebody shed light on why using WiX over something like Inno would be more complicated and why programmers are often less compelled to use WiX? I'm asking this because my friend has got a project he's working on where the main programmer is insistent on using Inno instead of WiX. It's bothering me because if my friend wants his product to be more administrator-friendly and compatible with group policy, doesn't he need to be using MSI technologies? I mean, he wants that administrative/ease-of-deployment across multiple servers/workstations edge, but is he going to get it using Inno? And if not, then what can I say to these people to help dispel the supposed complications of Windows Installer? Thanks. -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
I would argue that developing MSI with wix is a little bit more complicated than developing in c# or other scripting language at the beginning, because programmers which use to tell the compiler How to do things now need to use declarative language and tell the compiler What to do Some programmers feel that this is somewhat limiting their options I guess, This is obviously true but also has advantage...let Microsoft worry that it will work Moving from IS to Wix, my first task was to get rid of all install scripts and custom logic, and move anything I can into Windows installer tables You learn to love windows installer; it is like playing with Lego, when you put in place all the parts (Mostly) everything works great, and Wix? Well…Wix is love (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Box) -- View this message in context: http://windows-installer-xml-wix-toolset.687559.n2.nabble.com/I-have-heard-that-MSI-is-too-complicated-from-a-programmer-s-prospective-tp7581130p7581134.html Sent from the wix-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
Don't forget validation (ICE's) and support for existing and future platforms. If you utilize the Burn approach for any (limited) customization to the installation and simply property drive your MSI's then they become incredibly simple to manage (over some custom script that may or may not work on all OS's/Languages/Bitness/etc). -Original Message- From: tom [mailto:tomer.d...@intergraph.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 3:29 PM To: wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective I would argue that developing MSI with wix is a little bit more complicated than developing in c# or other scripting language at the beginning, because programmers which use to tell the compiler How to do things now need to use declarative language and tell the compiler What to do Some programmers feel that this is somewhat limiting their options I guess, This is obviously true but also has advantage...let Microsoft worry that it will work Moving from IS to Wix, my first task was to get rid of all install scripts and custom logic, and move anything I can into Windows installer tables You learn to love windows installer; it is like playing with Lego, when you put in place all the parts (Mostly) everything works great, and Wix? Well…Wix is love (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Box) -- View this message in context: http://windows-installer-xml-wix-toolset.687559.n2.nabble.com/I-have-heard-that-MSI-is-too-complicated-from-a-programmer-s-prospective-tp7581130p7581134.html Sent from the wix-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
Hmmm COM is love? I always thought COM was COMplicated... lol. -Original Message- From: tom [mailto:tomer.d...@intergraph.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 3:29 PM To: wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective I would argue that developing MSI with wix is a little bit more complicated than developing in c# or other scripting language at the beginning, because programmers which use to tell the compiler How to do things now need to use declarative language and tell the compiler What to do Some programmers feel that this is somewhat limiting their options I guess, This is obviously true but also has advantage...let Microsoft worry that it will work Moving from IS to Wix, my first task was to get rid of all install scripts and custom logic, and move anything I can into Windows installer tables You learn to love windows installer; it is like playing with Lego, when you put in place all the parts (Mostly) everything works great, and Wix? Well…Wix is love (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Box) -- View this message in context: http://windows-installer-xml-wix-toolset.687559.n2.nabble.com/I-have-heard-that-MSI-is-too-complicated-from-a-programmer-s-prospective-tp7581130p7581134.html Sent from the wix-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
I feel your pain. Over the years I have used lots of install technologies, installShield (script and windows installer), wise (script and windows installer), inno setup, plain batch files, custom exes, NSIS etc, etc. The only one that has provided me with a 100% reliable installation is windows installer - WIX is just a method for creating Windows Installer files. I would agree that it is not the simplest tools to learn but that is because installing on Windows is not simple, you could argue that is the problem. Inno is really good, I have got reasonable results very quickly but there are issues. Your choice is script based installer (Inno etc) vs a database of installation tasks (Windows Installer). For me the reason for using WiX to create Windows Installer files are: text source (good for version control), easy integration to build tools, no licencing issues (a lot of companies don't get build servers), and Microsoft recommend it and use it. Downside, a lot to learn but a lot of that is a Windows Installer issue not WiX. At the end of the day it is your choice but if you ask the question here I suspect most people would recommend WiX (mind you it is like trying to find a vegan in McDonalds!). If you can invest the time you will get a better install experience with Windows Installer but you have to be prepared to invest that time, far too many developers/PMs believe installers are just a trivial bit at the end - as Rob's tag line says because setup isn't just xcopy. This is bit trite but if I ruled the development teams I would write the install first and then do the boring application development bit :-) Neil -Original Message- From: Katherine Moss [mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu] Sent: 04 October 2012 20:43 To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. (wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net) Subject: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective Hi guys, Since I am just learning to be a .NET C# programmer, can somebody shed light on why using WiX over something like Inno would be more complicated and why programmers are often less compelled to use WiX? I'm asking this because my friend has got a project he's working on where the main programmer is insistent on using Inno instead of WiX. It's bothering me because if my friend wants his product to be more administrator-friendly and compatible with group policy, doesn't he need to be using MSI technologies? I mean, he wants that administrative/ease-of-deployment across multiple servers/workstations edge, but is he going to get it using Inno? And if not, then what can I say to these people to help dispel the supposed complications of Windows Installer? Thanks. -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
MSI is complicated. Setup is complicated. There is a learning curve but once you nail it, it's easy for your users. The key to MSI is that it's declarative (functional programming), transactional and has standardized support for upgrades, patches, uninstall, repair, silent and so on. Learn how to do all this and you can crank out massively complex, scalable installers with very low defect rates. Try to do that in any procedural (Wise, InstallScript, PowerShell, VBScript, .BAT, NSIS, Inno, whatever..) language and you'll quickly find yourself with tomes of buggy code and inconsistent installation behavior. I did the latter for 6 years before switching to MSI. I've been doing MSI for 10 years. You can take what I say to the bank. From: Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:46 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. (wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net) wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective Hi guys, Since I am just learning to be a .NET C# programmer, can somebody shed light on why using WiX over something like Inno would be more complicated and why programmers are often less compelled to use WiX? I'm asking this because my friend has got a project he's working on where the main programmer is insistent on using Inno instead of WiX. It's bothering me because if my friend wants his product to be more administrator-friendly and compatible with group policy, doesn't he need to be using MSI technologies? I mean, he wants that administrative/ease-of-deployment across multiple servers/workstations edge, but is he going to get it using Inno? And if not, then what can I say to these people to help dispel the supposed complications of Windows Installer? Thanks. -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
Thanks; I wish that MSI could prove so simple for users though in some of Microsoft's own products. Example? I had SQL server Express 2012 on my server a few months ago, had to uninstall it to clear out some errors, and are you kidding me? I had to reinstall the operating system to reinstall it! Components got left behind, network share errors abound (I was not even installing from the network!), third-party uninstaller tools did not show the seemingly existing components, and still no explanation from the sQL server team at Microsoft! What does that tell you about MSI? It still appears to have it's defects. Unless my case was an isolated incident? -Original Message- From: Christopher Painter [mailto:chr...@iswix.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 7:25 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset.; General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. (wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net) Subject: Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective MSI is complicated. Setup is complicated. There is a learning curve but once you nail it, it's easy for your users. The key to MSI is that it's declarative (functional programming), transactional and has standardized support for upgrades, patches, uninstall, repair, silent and so on. Learn how to do all this and you can crank out massively complex, scalable installers with very low defect rates. Try to do that in any procedural (Wise, InstallScript, PowerShell, VBScript, .BAT, NSIS, Inno, whatever..) language and you'll quickly find yourself with tomes of buggy code and inconsistent installation behavior. I did the latter for 6 years before switching to MSI. I've been doing MSI for 10 years. You can take what I say to the bank. From: Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:46 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. (wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net) wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective Hi guys, Since I am just learning to be a .NET C# programmer, can somebody shed light on why using WiX over something like Inno would be more complicated and why programmers are often less compelled to use WiX? I'm asking this because my friend has got a project he's working on where the main programmer is insistent on using Inno instead of WiX. It's bothering me because if my friend wants his product to be more administrator-friendly and compatible with group policy, doesn't he need to be using MSI technologies? I mean, he wants that administrative/ease-of-deployment across multiple servers/workstations edge, but is he going to get it using Inno? And if not, then what can I say to these people to help dispel the supposed complications of Windows Installer? Thanks. -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
It seems a bit unfair to blame MSI for the SQL Server install. On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.eduwrote: Thanks; I wish that MSI could prove so simple for users though in some of Microsoft's own products. Example? I had SQL server Express 2012 on my server a few months ago, had to uninstall it to clear out some errors, and are you kidding me? I had to reinstall the operating system to reinstall it! Components got left behind, network share errors abound (I was not even installing from the network!), third-party uninstaller tools did not show the seemingly existing components, and still no explanation from the sQL server team at Microsoft! What does that tell you about MSI? It still appears to have it's defects. Unless my case was an isolated incident? -Original Message- From: Christopher Painter [mailto:chr...@iswix.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 7:25 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset.; General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. ( wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net) Subject: Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective MSI is complicated. Setup is complicated. There is a learning curve but once you nail it, it's easy for your users. The key to MSI is that it's declarative (functional programming), transactional and has standardized support for upgrades, patches, uninstall, repair, silent and so on. Learn how to do all this and you can crank out massively complex, scalable installers with very low defect rates. Try to do that in any procedural (Wise, InstallScript, PowerShell, VBScript, .BAT, NSIS, Inno, whatever..) language and you'll quickly find yourself with tomes of buggy code and inconsistent installation behavior. I did the latter for 6 years before switching to MSI. I've been doing MSI for 10 years. You can take what I say to the bank. From: Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:46 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. (wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net) wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective Hi guys, Since I am just learning to be a .NET C# programmer, can somebody shed light on why using WiX over something like Inno would be more complicated and why programmers are often less compelled to use WiX? I'm asking this because my friend has got a project he's working on where the main programmer is insistent on using Inno instead of WiX. It's bothering me because if my friend wants his product to be more administrator-friendly and compatible with group policy, doesn't he need to be using MSI technologies? I mean, he wants that administrative/ease-of-deployment across multiple servers/workstations edge, but is he going to get it using Inno? And if not, then what can I say to these people to help dispel the supposed complications of Windows Installer? Thanks. -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- virtually, Rob Mensching http://RobMensching.com LLC -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM
Re: [WiX-users] I have heard that MSI is too complicated from a programmer's prospective
What is he doing in his current installer? There are some things in MSI that are more complex than in InnoSetup and NSIS (although Burn in WiX v3.6 tackles most of them). I'm curious because tackling the complexity problem/perception is very important to me in WiX v4.0. On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.eduwrote: Hi guys, Since I am just learning to be a .NET C# programmer, can somebody shed light on why using WiX over something like Inno would be more complicated and why programmers are often less compelled to use WiX? I'm asking this because my friend has got a project he's working on where the main programmer is insistent on using Inno instead of WiX. It's bothering me because if my friend wants his product to be more administrator-friendly and compatible with group policy, doesn't he need to be using MSI technologies? I mean, he wants that administrative/ease-of-deployment across multiple servers/workstations edge, but is he going to get it using Inno? And if not, then what can I say to these people to help dispel the supposed complications of Windows Installer? Thanks. -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- virtually, Rob Mensching http://RobMensching.com LLC -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
