Re: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files? [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]

[Rainer Meier]

Hi Troy,

On 18.01.2011 16:00, Troy Hamilton wrote:

I wonder if one could avoid these disadvantages of BITS by using
wget.exe (from gnuwin32 project) instead.  One could use the "-c" or
"--continue" option to resume partially downloaded files and the
"--limit-rate=RATE" option for throttling downloads.

 From my quick test, it looks like it would require wget.exe as well as
libeay32.dll, libintl3.dll, libiconv2.dll, and ssleay32.dll to be
present on the workstation (but not registered), so all other packages
would probably have to depend on a wget package which installed these
files.


You might want to have a look at  
as well as on the downloader script I've just checked in.


It also allows you to set wget parameters in DOWNLOADER_OPTIONS variable if you 
wish so.


I was using wget from here  instead. It's 
compiled using MS Visual C++ and does not require additional libraries.


br,
Rainer
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Re: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files? [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]

[Troy Hamilton]

Michael,

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 8:23 PM, Michael Chinn
 wrote:
> Bits has some advantages, Namely you can throttle it using a GPO
>
> Be warned it has a number of disadvantages, no COM interface, it self
> throttles 2 seconds after it detects other traffic which can be annoying
>

I wonder if one could avoid these disadvantages of BITS by using
wget.exe (from gnuwin32 project) instead.  One could use the "-c" or
"--continue" option to resume partially downloaded files and the
"--limit-rate=RATE" option for throttling downloads.

>From my quick test, it looks like it would require wget.exe as well as
libeay32.dll, libintl3.dll, libiconv2.dll, and ssleay32.dll to be
present on the workstation (but not registered), so all other packages
would probably have to depend on a wget package which installed these
files.

>
> This nearly worked…
>
> I had to deploy to about 80 laptops on intermittent connections
>
> The idea was to have 2 kinds of package…
>
> PACKAGE: Deploy_acrobat runs once and triggers BITS. Detects if a zip file
> exists at the end
>
> PACKAGE: Install_Acrobat depends on Deploy_acrobat, has 2 commands… unpacks
> the zip and runs to contained setup.bat
>

I think one could use the same package strategy with wget.

I've never had a need for such a system, but I thought I'd throw this
out there in case it might help someone else.


Cheers,

Troy
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Re: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files? [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]

[Michael Chinn]

ohibited.
=

From: wpkg-users-boun...@lists.wpkg.org 
[mailto:wpkg-users-boun...@lists.wpkg.org] On Behalf Of Sean Kennedy
Sent: 29 December 2010 14:25
To: wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org
Subject: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files?

I'm just wondering if anyone has ever taken a look at using BITS to transfer 
files to the client?  Having recently started a new job where I have 250+ sites 
that I would love to use WPKG on, I have run up against a bandwidth problem; 
the sites are all 128k or lower bandwidth.  I got around this problem with 
windows updates by utilizing BITS ( built in to windows since...2000?  I think 
), and it got me thinking that it would be awesome if wpkg could use the built 
in BITS functionality as well.

Is this one of those things that was looked at but decided against?  How else 
has everyone solved the bandwidth problem?
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Re: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files?

[Malte Starostik]

Am Donnerstag, 6. Januar 2011, 23:45:41 schrieb Marco Gaiarin:
> Yes, i know that in AD machine account work, but i can confirm that, at
> least for samba 3.2, in nt-like domain not... ;(((

Right, and it cannot work, regardless of samba version.  Windows clients will 
only authenticate with their machine credentials when using kerberos, and that 
in turn requires an AD (or sth. compatible).  While this is rather bad for 
anyone running a samba-only domain, it's not the worst thing in general given 
the security issues of NTLM(v2) authentication as used without an AD.

Kind regards,
Malte
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Re: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files?

[Marco Gaiarin]

Mandi! Malte Starostik
  In chel di` si favelave...

> There is one requirement that might get in the way: machine authentication 
> requires kerberos, so you need an AD domain, either with a Windows 2000+ DC 
> or 
> Samba 4.  I haven't tried the latter yet, but I certainly will some day.  A 
> Windows NT (resp. Samba 3) domain will not do.

A... sorry, you say 'samba' and i meant 'samba nt-like domain',
totally forgotting that samba can be a member of an AD domain...
sorry...

Yes, i know that in AD machine account work, but i can confirm that, at
least for samba 3.2, in nt-like domain not... ;(((

-- 
dott. Marco Gaiarin GNUPG Key ID: 240A3D66
  Associazione ``La Nostra Famiglia''http://www.sv.lnf.it/
  Polo FVG  -  Via della Bontà, 7 - 33078  -  San Vito al Tagliamento (PN)
  marco.gaiarin(at)sv.lnf.it  tel +39-0434-842711  fax +39-0434-842797

Dona il 5 PER MILLE a LA NOSTRA FAMIGLIA!
   http://www.lanostrafamiglia.it/chi_siamo/5xmille.php
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Re: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files?

[Malte Starostik]

Am Sonntag, 2. Januar 2011, 23:39:52 schrieb Marco Gaiarin:
> Mandi! Malte Starostik
>   In chel di` si favelave...
> 
> > I can't confirm this.  I'm running WPKG off a samba server and the
> > clients access the share with machine credentials just fine.  I've
> > granted read access to the "Domain Computers" group and all is well.
> > The share that the clients write their logfile to is writable by "Domain
> > Computers" and has the sticky bit set a client can only mess with the log
> > file(s) it created.
> 
> Really, really, REALLY interested on that!!!
> 
> Can you sand some more info? Samba version? Server and cient
> configuration?
> 
> I've tried some weeks ago on debian lenny (samba 3.2.X) and i was not
> able to make it work...

The server is currently running Samba 3.5.6 on Gentoo Linux, but it was 
working with 3.2.x before as well.  The user/group mapping is handled by 
winbind.  The basic configuration is like this:

[global]
workgroup = DOMAIN
security = ads
realm = DOMAIN.TLD

idmap backend = tdb
idmap uid = 10 - 99
idmap gid = 10 - 99

idmap config DOMAIN : backend= rid
idmap config DOMAIN : base_rid   = 0
idmap config DOMAIN : range  = 100 - 999

winbind use default domain = yes

[wpkg]
path = /srv/wpkg
read only = yes

Please note that the idmap configuration syntax has changed from Samba 3.2. to 
3.4 (or 3.3?), so the aboe is not compatible with 3.2.

These are the permissions of the WPKG share:
$ getfacl /srv/wpkg
# file: /srv/wpkg/
# owner: root
# group: root
user::rwx
user:apache:rwx
group::r-x
group:domain\040admins:r-x
group:domain\040computers:r-x
group:domain\040controllers:r-x
mask::rwx
other::---

There should be no need for POSIX ACLs, if the share is owned by the group 
"domain computers" and group readable, it should work as well - not being 
world readable prevents users from copying software off the share or dive into 
configurations they maybe shouldn't see...

The clients are running Windows XP Pro and are joined to the domain.  WPKG 
Client is configured to authenticate as "SYSTEM" - this enables machine 
authentication.

There is one requirement that might get in the way: machine authentication 
requires kerberos, so you need an AD domain, either with a Windows 2000+ DC or 
Samba 4.  I haven't tried the latter yet, but I certainly will some day.  A 
Windows NT (resp. Samba 3) domain will not do.

Cheers,
Malte
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Re: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files?

[Daniel Dehennin]

Malte Starostik  writes:

> I can't confirm this.  I'm running WPKG off a samba server and the clients 
> access the share with machine credentials just fine.  I've granted read 
> access 
> to the "Domain Computers" group and all is well.

And a guest access OK?

Without it I have the following error in my samba log file:

#v+
guest user (from session setup) not permitted to access this share (wpkg$)
#v-

I see the connection as:

#v+
check_ntlm_password:  Checking password for unmapped user []...@[test-machine] 
with the new password interface
#v-

When I enable the guest access to my WPKG share, the wpkginst.exe test
give me:

#v+
Testing complete

2 - OK
1 - failed
5 - not tested

Details:

Action: Offline mode - connecting to 192.168.123.9
Result: [OK]
Message: 

Action: Connecting to \\horus\wpkg$\wpkg.js as 
Result: [FAILED]
Message: WNetAddConnection2-> Échec d'ouverture de session : nom d'utilisateur 
inconnu ou mot de passe incorrect.[1]

Action: Trying to read \\horus\wpkg$\wpkg.js
Result: [OK]
Message: 
#v-

Regards.

Footnotes: 
[1]  User unknown or bad password

-- 
Daniel Dehennin
RAIP de l'Orne


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Re: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files?

[Marco Gaiarin]

Mandi! Malte Starostik
  In chel di` si favelave...

> I can't confirm this.  I'm running WPKG off a samba server and the clients 
> access the share with machine credentials just fine.  I've granted read 
> access 
> to the "Domain Computers" group and all is well.
> The share that the clients write their logfile to is writable by "Domain 
> Computers" and has the sticky bit set a client can only mess with the log 
> file(s) it created.

Really, really, REALLY interested on that!!!

Can you sand some more info? Samba version? Server and cient
configuration?

I've tried some weeks ago on debian lenny (samba 3.2.X) and i was not
able to make it work...

Thanks!

-- 
dott. Marco Gaiarin GNUPG Key ID: 240A3D66
  Associazione ``La Nostra Famiglia''http://www.sv.lnf.it/
  Polo FVG  -  Via della Bontà, 7 - 33078  -  San Vito al Tagliamento (PN)
  marco.gaiarin(at)sv.lnf.it  tel +39-0434-842711  fax +39-0434-842797

Dona il 5 PER MILLE a LA NOSTRA FAMIGLIA!
   http://www.lanostrafamiglia.it/chi_siamo/5xmille.php
(cf 00307430132, categoria ONLUS oppure RICERCA SANITARIA)
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Re: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files?

[Malte Starostik]

Am Donnerstag, 30. Dezember 2010, 11:42:54 schrieb Marco Gaiarin:
> Mandi! Rainer Meier
>   In chel di` si favelave...
> 
> > So please consider setting up a distributed WPKG configuration where
> > local nodes fetch packages from a local software repository server.
> 
> I add some consideration.
> 
> I agree, but i've also found the limit of these approach syncing a full
> repository within sites that are connected with slow VPN link, instead
> of using the full (local) internet speed.
> 
> Some days ago i've asked some more info on the download tag:
> 
>   http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/2010-December/007134.html
> 
> (with no answer at all) exactly because the internal repository have
> some limit, and the download tag also.
> 
> 1) samba does not support accessing shares using machine account, so
>  there's no way to setup a shared repository for the download tag, apart
> a repository with ''full write from everyone'' that i don't want to
> setup.

I can't confirm this.  I'm running WPKG off a samba server and the clients 
access the share with machine credentials just fine.  I've granted read access 
to the "Domain Computers" group and all is well.
The share that the clients write their logfile to is writable by "Domain 
Computers" and has the sticky bit set a client can only mess with the log 
file(s) it created.

Cheers,
Malte
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Re: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files?

[Marco Gaiarin]

Mandi! Rainer Meier
  In chel di` si favelave...

> So please consider setting up a distributed WPKG configuration where local 
> nodes
> fetch packages from a local software repository server.

I add some consideration.

I agree, but i've also found the limit of these approach syncing a full
repository within sites that are connected with slow VPN link, instead
of using the full (local) internet speed.

Some days ago i've asked some more info on the download tag:

http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/2010-December/007134.html

(with no answer at all) exactly because the internal repository have
some limit, and the download tag also.

1) samba does not support accessing shares using machine account, so
 there's no way to setup a shared repository for the download tag, apart
a repository with ''full write from everyone'' that i don't want to
setup.

2) if i setup a local dir, clearly every wpkg invocation redownload the
 file

So i'm asking some info on download tag, because it is not clear how to
use it (at least for me) reading the wiki.

My goal would be to add to package the downoad tag, have the ability to
globally ''disable'' it in wpkg.js and insted use an external script
that parse the xml structure and download the package saving them in
the right repository.


Ok, i can use for that some ''xml comment'' in the recupes, but clearly
use the just provided download tags could be more cleaner...

-- 
dott. Marco Gaiarin GNUPG Key ID: 240A3D66
  Associazione ``La Nostra Famiglia''http://www.sv.lnf.it/
  Polo FVG  -  Via della Bontà, 7 - 33078  -  San Vito al Tagliamento (PN)
  marco.gaiarin(at)sv.lnf.it  tel +39-0434-842711  fax +39-0434-842797

Dona il 5 PER MILLE a LA NOSTRA FAMIGLIA!
   http://www.lanostrafamiglia.it/chi_siamo/5xmille.php
(cf 00307430132, categoria ONLUS oppure RICERCA SANITARIA)
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Re: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files?

[Rainer Meier]

Hi Marco,

On 29.12.2010 10:31, Marco Gaiarin wrote:
> Mandi! Sean Kennedy
>   In chel di` si favelave...
> 
>> Is this one of those things that was looked at but decided against?  How else
>> has everyone solved the bandwidth problem?
> 
> I replicate the ''wpkg repository'' within servers using unison.

I agree on this. I think there have been some discussion about BITS usage
already in this mailing list. The most important point is that BITS does not
reduce the amount of data transferred. If there are 50 hosts on a site connected
with 128kbps, then all 50 hosts will have to download all the packages.
Therefore installing a package with 100MB will transfer ~5GB of data to the 
site.

Moreover BITS is mainly used to download files without affecting the user data
streams, like web-surfing and similar. I am not fully sure about BITS in an
enterprise network but I doubt that when 50 clients on a site run downloads with
BITS they will be any faster than direct downloads and even not if BITS on host
A would throttle if host B is browsing the web and needs the bandwidth.

In general the advise here is clearly to set up a local WPKG server on sites
with low bandwidth. Using a simply rsync, robocopy or SyncToy job can be used to
update the site-local repository with data inserted into a central repository.
The advantage is that the download to the site takes place only once (100MB
updates distributed to 50 clients will take 1x100MB transfer over slow lines,
distribution then takes place within a fast LAN/WLAN).

This saves much more bandwith and allows atomic update of software repository on
remote sites. More over it's very cost-efficient; even a cheap NAS device with a
single HDD and SMB share capabilities could be used to serve the packages.


BITS in general does not look like a good approach to me since BITS in best case
transfers the files at full speed (same as direct download) and in worst case it
takes forever. While WPKG (depending on configuration) even blocks users to
login before packages are downloaded and installed. So the faster the files are
transferred the earlier users can start working.

So please consider setting up a distributed WPKG configuration where local nodes
fetch packages from a local software repository server.

br,
Rainer
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Re: [wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files?

[Marco Gaiarin]

Mandi! Sean Kennedy
  In chel di` si favelave...

> Is this one of those things that was looked at but decided against?  How else
> has everyone solved the bandwidth problem?

I replicate the ''wpkg repository'' within servers using unison.

-- 
dott. Marco Gaiarin GNUPG Key ID: 240A3D66
  Associazione ``La Nostra Famiglia''http://www.sv.lnf.it/
  Polo FVG  -  Via della Bontà, 7 - 33078  -  San Vito al Tagliamento (PN)
  marco.gaiarin(at)sv.lnf.it  tel +39-0434-842711  fax +39-0434-842797

Dona il 5 PER MILLE a LA NOSTRA FAMIGLIA!
   http://www.lanostrafamiglia.it/chi_siamo/5xmille.php
(cf 00307430132, categoria ONLUS oppure RICERCA SANITARIA)
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[wpkg-users] Using BITS to transfer files?

[Sean Kennedy]

I'm just wondering if anyone has ever taken a look at using BITS to transfer
files to the client?  Having recently started a new job where I have 250+
sites that I would love to use WPKG on, I have run up against a bandwidth
problem; the sites are all 128k or lower bandwidth.  I got around this
problem with windows updates by utilizing BITS ( built in to windows
since...2000?  I think ), and it got me thinking that it would be awesome if
wpkg could use the built in BITS functionality as well.

Is this one of those things that was looked at but decided against?  How
else has everyone solved the bandwidth problem?
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