[WSG] Font weight weirdness in Safari 1.2?

[Hugh Todd]

Hey, this is sort of an OT post, but affects my CSS development, so...

I'm testing my pages as I go along (coding in BBEdit). But I'm finding 
that in a sequential series of DIVs, or dls, I'm getting a sort of 
cumulative weight gain in my fonts, whether they're "normal" or "bold" 
weight.

Doesn't seem to affect other browsers.

To see what I mean, point Safari to 
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~hughtodd/lsp/playvan/team.html . Check 
out the four dls (probably used completely wrongly) in the main part of 
the page. The weight of the fonts grows incrementally.

CSS at http://members.ozemail.com.au/~hughtodd/lsp/playvan/playvan.css

Very disconcerting. Am I alone here?

-Hugh Todd

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

RE: [WSG] horizontal nav bar nightmare

[roger]

ooops sorry,

www.desertstandard.net/yv/

>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [WSG] horizontal nav bar nightmare
> From: "Paul Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, February 10, 2004 10:50 pm
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Roger,
> 
> I am getting a 404 page not found with that URL.
> 
> Regards
> PAUL ROSS
> SkyRocket Design Co
> 
> 
> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> 
> > 
> > Here is the site:
> > www.desertstandard.net/YV/
> 
> 
> 
> -
> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> *
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] horizontal nav bar nightmare

[Paul Ross]

Roger,

I am getting a 404 page not found with that URL.

Regards
PAUL ROSS
SkyRocket Design Co


Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> 
> Here is the site:
> www.desertstandard.net/YV/



-
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Justin French]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 03:55  PM, Peter Firminger wrote:

   elispes (not epsilons) => …
Oops, how embarrassment!
Eeeek -- just realised *I* spelt it wrong too!

Elipses (as in the plural of elipse, which is a circle)

Justin French

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Universal Head]

Naw, I can live with the three dot thing ;)
P

But I'd rather stick with 3 dots (...) as I have seen this one break badly
in a search result or text browser or something, can't remember where now.
May just be a stubborn bad habit. Sorry if that worries Peter (UH) as well.

Universal Head 
Design That Works.

7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore
NSW 2048 Australia
T	(+612) 9517 1466
F	(+612) 9565 4747
E	[EMAIL PROTECTED]
W	www.universalhead.com

RE: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Peter Firminger]

> I've found that the entities — and – don't work in older
> browsers (like NN4), so best use the numeric entities:
>
>   em-dash => —
>   en-dash => –

I agree entirely Justin. Sorry I didn't point that out.

>elispes (not epsilons) => …

Oops, how embarrassment!

But I'd rather stick with 3 dots (...) as I have seen this one break badly
in a search result or text browser or something, can't remember where now.
May just be a stubborn bad habit. Sorry if that worries Peter (UH) as well.

P


*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

[WSG] horizontal nav bar nightmare

[roger]

Here is the site:
www.desertstandard.net/YV/

The first problem is with the main horizontal nav bar. I need it to sit about 3 to 
5px's from the purple header and it needs to be centered on the page. Client wants it 
to look like their brochure of course. I have put a orange bar on the background for 
reference. I cannot get it to sit there on the latest versions of all the browsers and 
I am having trouble with the centering.

The second problem is with the sub nav menu in the Classes section. In IE 6 it keeps 
'bouncing' up and down and I obviously only need it to sit still.

Any suggestions are appreciated. I am close to scraping it and using tables.

Thanks,

Roger
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] label for multiple elements

[James Ellis]

Aahh. good stuff. I misread my own quote from WDG. :-! 

"the FOR attribute must match the value of the associated form
control's ID attribute"

Now I wonder what happens with xhtml where the name attribute is not
allowed. I suppose doing id="car[0]", id="car[1]" etc etc may work...
then add a for="" to the associated label.


Thanks Chris


James


Chris Blown wrote:

  AFAIK since a label element's "for" attribute uses a DOM id reference
you are required to give each checkbox a unique id.

Also name="cars[]" implies you are creating the form dynamically, so
just add an iterator to the end of your id's for both input and label.

for=""
id="car0"

for=""
id="car1"

and still happily use 

name="cars[]" 

Regards
Chris Blown 

On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 15:03, James Ellis wrote:
  
  
This also reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask:

When submitting a form to a PHP script you can add [] to the form names:




This will cause the array element $_POST in PHP to have a value "cars" 
which is an array..much better that posting cars0, cars1 to the script 
and imploding them into an array.

e.g $_POST['cars'] is an array([0]=>ford,[1]=>holden);

How would we go about attaching a label to these individual form elements?

Cheers
James
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 




  
  
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

  



*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] label for multiple elements

[Chris Blown]

AFAIK since a label element's "for" attribute uses a DOM id reference
you are required to give each checkbox a unique id.

Also name="cars[]" implies you are creating the form dynamically, so
just add an iterator to the end of your id's for both input and label.

for="car0"
id="car0"

for="car1"
id="car1"

and still happily use 

name="cars[]" 

Regards
Chris Blown 

On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 15:03, James Ellis wrote:
> This also reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask:
> 
> When submitting a form to a PHP script you can add [] to the form names:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This will cause the array element $_POST in PHP to have a value "cars" 
> which is an array..much better that posting cars0, cars1 to the script 
> and imploding them into an array.
> 
> e.g $_POST['cars'] is an array([0]=>ford,[1]=>holden);
> 
> How would we go about attaching a label to these individual form elements?
> 
> Cheers
> James
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> * 
> 
> 
> 

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Chris Stratford]

Thanks James,

one thing - is this correct?
If you are putting data into a data store it's
wise to stripslashes(),
strip_tags() and other characters that can cause problems.

or did you mean:

addslashes();
strip_tags();

not - stripslashes... because addslashes escapes the charaters which
are problem causers.

Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Http://www.neester.com


James Ellis wrote:

  
  
  
  
Peter Firminger wrote:
  
Sorry, I don't do PHP. Someone else may have a PHP solution for you.

P
  
  
  
I think I did a pretty long post a while back on this subject -
probably good to search for it in the archive.
  
Anyway, the PHP way to do the CF in Peter's example is:
  
$newString = htmlspecialchars($oldString);
or
$newString = htmlentities($oldString);
  
The relevant core PHP functions are:
  
htmlspecialchars
htmlentities
html_entity_decode
get_html_translation_table
  
If you are putting data into a data store it's wise to stripslashes(),
strip_tags() and other characters that can cause problems.
  
All available in the PHP manual at php.net/manual/
  
Cheers
James
  
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 


*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

RE: [WSG] label for multiple elements

[Taco Fleur]

I was 
aware of the following:
 
"The LABEL element associates a label 
with a form control. By associating labels with form controls, authors give 
important hints to users of speech browsers while also allowing visual browsers 
to duplicate common GUI features (e.g., the ability to click on a text label to 
select a radio button or checkbox).Each LABEL element is associated with 
exactly one form control. The element's content is the label of the form control 
and may include inline elements such as IMG and STRONG.The FOR attribute 
explicitly specifies the control associated with the LABEL. The value of the FOR 
attribute must match the value of the associated form control's ID attribute. In 
the absence of the FOR attribute, the LABEL must contain the associated form 
control. This method of implicit association is convenient in many cases, but 
not an option when the form control and its label are in different table cells, 
paragraphs, or divisions."
 
But 
what to do when you run into a situation like I included?
 
Are 
you saying something like
 

Birthdate
would be 
the way to go?
 
Taco Fleur07 3535 5072 Blog: http://www.tacofleur.com/index/blog/Methodology: http://www.tacofleur.com/index/methodology/Tell me and I 
will forgetShow me and I will rememberTeach me and I will learn 


  -Original Message-From: James Ellis 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, 11 February 
  2004 1:57 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: 
  [WSG] label for multiple elementsTacoYou probably 
  want to wrap the input withing the label, although it's not 
  required:"The LABEL element associates a label with a form control. By 
  associating labels with form controls, authors give important hints to users 
  of speech browsers while also allowing visual browsers to duplicate common GUI 
  features (e.g., the ability to click on a text label to select a radio button 
  or checkbox).Each LABEL element is associated with exactly one form 
  control. The element's content is the label of the form control and may 
  include inline elements such as IMG and STRONG.The FOR attribute 
  explicitly specifies the control associated with the LABEL. The value of the 
  FOR attribute must match the value of the associated form control's ID 
  attribute. In the absence of the FOR attribute, the LABEL must contain the 
  associated form control. This method of implicit association is convenient in 
  many cases, but not an option when the form control and its label are in 
  different table cells, paragraphs, or divisions."src: WDG 
  HTMLHELP.comYou shouldn't have problem doing this with the code 
  belowTaco Fleur wrote:
  

What do people do when there is a label for 
multiple form elements? 
For example: 
Birthdate 
  
Birthdate 
??
Taco Fleur07 3535 5072 
Blog: http://www.tacofleur.com/index/blog/Methodology: 
http://www.tacofleur.com/index/methodology/Tell 
me and I will forgetShow me and I will rememberTeach me and I will 
learn 
  * The 
  discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ 
  * 

Re: [WSG] label for multiple elements

[James Ellis]

This also reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask:

When submitting a form to a PHP script you can add [] to the form names:



This will cause the array element $_POST in PHP to have a value "cars" 
which is an array..much better that posting cars0, cars1 to the script 
and imploding them into an array.

e.g $_POST['cars'] is an array([0]=>ford,[1]=>holden);

How would we go about attaching a label to these individual form elements?

Cheers
James
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Justin French]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, at 02:30  PM, Peter Firminger wrote:

Also be aware of em-dashes, en-dashes, epsilons (...) and the curly
varieties of " and ' (which I hate and always strip back to the plain 
text
version).
I've found that the entities — and – don't work in older 
browsers (like NN4), so best use the numeric entities:

 em-dash => —
 en-dash => –
  elispes (not epsilons) => …
   "foo" => “foo”
   'bah' => ‘bah’
If it's your own blog software, make sure to replace them as you 
output the
formatted text. I'm sure there's a PHP function (?) that does this
conversion on a string for you.
 will take care of most of the 
above with entities (it won't perform educated quotes replacement), and 
is a great quick fix in PHP, but rolling your own replacement function 
will allow you to:

a) skip some chars (like < and > if you want to allow tags
b) use numeric references rather than entities
If the OP needs further help, just ask... I've got plenty of functions 
to help with cleaning text, and prepping it for HTML output in PHP

As mentioned before, also make sure you do it if you're dynamicly 
building
URLs with a querystring
(e.g. "/blog.php?id=#something#&method=#somethingelse#")

Sorry, I don't do PHP. Someone else may have a PHP solution for you.
urlencode() will help there.

Justin French

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] label for multiple elements

[James Ellis]

Taco

You probably want to wrap the input withing the label, although it's
not required:
"
The LABEL element associates a label with a form control. By
associating labels with form controls, authors give important hints to
users of speech browsers while also allowing visual browsers to
duplicate common GUI features (e.g., the ability to click on a text
label to select a radio button or checkbox).

Each LABEL element is associated with exactly one form control. The
element's content is the label of the form control and may include
inline elements such as IMG and STRONG.

The FOR attribute explicitly specifies the control associated with the
LABEL. The value of the FOR attribute must match the value of the
associated form control's ID attribute. In the absence of the FOR
attribute, the LABEL must contain the associated form control. This
method of implicit association is convenient in many cases, but not an
option when the form control and its label are in different table
cells, paragraphs, or divisions.
"
src: WDG HTMLHELP.com


You shouldn't have problem doing this with the code below



Taco Fleur wrote:

  
  
  label for multiple elements

  What do people do when there is a
label for multiple form elements?
  
  For example:
  
  Birthdate
  

  
  Birthdate
??
  
  
  Taco Fleur
07 3535 5072
  
  Blog: http://www.tacofleur.com/index/blog/
Methodology: http://www.tacofleur.com/index/methodology/
Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn
  



*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Chris Stratford]

Thats great thanks!
:)

There are a whole bunch of PHP tags available to use...
Thanks for that tho :)
Your advice has helped me a lot :D


cheers Pete!
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Http://www.neester.com


Peter Firminger wrote:

  It's good practice to do it for & (&) and " (") in the text all the
time (HTML or XHTML).

Also be aware of em-dashes, en-dashes, epsilons (...) and the curly
varieties of " and ' (which I hate and always strip back to the plain text
version).

If it's your own blog software, make sure to replace them as you output the
formatted text. I'm sure there's a PHP function (?) that does this
conversion on a string for you.

Not wanting to go OT here but in CF I generally run this function over all
inputs to a content database:

	function InputClean(string)
	{
	returnstring = Trim(string);
	returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '-', '-', 'all');
	returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '-', '-', 'all');
	returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '.', '...', 'all');
	returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '"', '"', 'all');
	returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '"', '"', 'all');
	returnstring = Replace(returnstring, "'", "'", "all");
	returnstring = Replace(returnstring, "'", "'", "all");
	return returnstring;
	}

And this one on output to the page

	function OutputFormat(string)
	{
	returnstring = Trim(string);
	returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '&', '&', 'all');
	returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '"', '"', 'all');
	return returnstring;
	}

As mentioned before, also make sure you do it if you're dynamicly building
URLs with a querystring
(e.g. "/blog.php?id=#something#&method=#somethingelse#")

Sorry, I don't do PHP. Someone else may have a PHP solution for you.

P


  
  
Its an & in text, not in a URL or anything - I didn't realise this posed a

  
  problem.
  
  
:(

  
  

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 




  



*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Universal Head]

I beg of you, don't discard the 'curly varieties' - they are the typographical correct apostrophes.  The non-curly versions are an ugly pox on mankind and should only be used to delineate feet and inches.

Peter


On 11/02/2004, at 2:30 PM, Peter Firminger wrote:

Also be aware of em-dashes, en-dashes, epsilons (...) and the curly
varieties of " and ' (which I hate and always strip back to the plain text
version).


Universal Head 
Design That Works.

7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore
NSW 2048 Australia
T	(+612) 9517 1466
F	(+612) 9565 4747
E	[EMAIL PROTECTED]
W	www.universalhead.com

Re: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[James Ellis]

Peter Firminger wrote:

  
Sorry, I don't do PHP. Someone else may have a PHP solution for you.

P
  


I think I did a pretty long post a while back on this subject -
probably good to search for it in the archive.

Anyway, the PHP way to do the CF in Peter's example is:

$newString = htmlspecialchars($oldString);
or
$newString = htmlentities($oldString);

The relevant core PHP functions are:

  htmlspecialchars
  htmlentities
  html_entity_decode
  get_html_translation_table

If you are putting data into a data store it's wise to stripslashes(),
strip_tags() and other characters that can cause problems.

All available in the PHP manual at php.net/manual/

Cheers
James



*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

RE: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Taco Fleur]

not wanting to add to your OT, but you will find that #htmlEditFormat(string)# works 
better for most cases ;-))

Taco Fleur
07 3535 5072
Blog: http://www.tacofleur.com/index/blog/
Methodology: http://www.tacofleur.com/index/methodology/
Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn


-Original Message-
From: Peter Firminger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 February 2004 1:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS


It's good practice to do it for & (&) and " (") in the text all the
time (HTML or XHTML).

Also be aware of em-dashes, en-dashes, epsilons (...) and the curly
varieties of " and ' (which I hate and always strip back to the plain text
version).

If it's your own blog software, make sure to replace them as you output the
formatted text. I'm sure there's a PHP function (?) that does this
conversion on a string for you.

Not wanting to go OT here but in CF I generally run this function over all
inputs to a content database:

function InputClean(string)
{
returnstring = Trim(string);
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '-', '-', 'all');
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '-', '-', 'all');
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '.', '...', 'all');
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '"', '"', 'all');
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '"', '"', 'all');
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, "'", "'", "all");
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, "'", "'", "all");
return returnstring;
}

And this one on output to the page

function OutputFormat(string)
{
returnstring = Trim(string);
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '&', '&', 'all');
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '"', '"', 'all');
return returnstring;
}

As mentioned before, also make sure you do it if you're dynamicly building
URLs with a querystring
(e.g. "/blog.php?id=#something#&method=#somethingelse#")

Sorry, I don't do PHP. Someone else may have a PHP solution for you.

P


> Its an & in text, not in a URL or anything - I didn't realise this posed a
problem.
> :(


*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*

[WSG] label for multiple elements

[Taco Fleur]

Title: label for multiple elements






What do people do when there is a label for multiple form elements?


For example:





  






Taco Fleur
07 3535 5072

Blog: http://www.tacofleur.com/index/blog/
Methodology: http://www.tacofleur.com/index/methodology/
Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn

RE: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Peter Firminger]

It's good practice to do it for & (&) and " (") in the text all the
time (HTML or XHTML).

Also be aware of em-dashes, en-dashes, epsilons (...) and the curly
varieties of " and ' (which I hate and always strip back to the plain text
version).

If it's your own blog software, make sure to replace them as you output the
formatted text. I'm sure there's a PHP function (?) that does this
conversion on a string for you.

Not wanting to go OT here but in CF I generally run this function over all
inputs to a content database:

function InputClean(string)
{
returnstring = Trim(string);
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '-', '-', 'all');
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '-', '-', 'all');
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '.', '...', 'all');
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '"', '"', 'all');
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '"', '"', 'all');
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, "'", "'", "all");
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, "'", "'", "all");
return returnstring;
}

And this one on output to the page

function OutputFormat(string)
{
returnstring = Trim(string);
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '&', '&', 'all');
returnstring = Replace(returnstring, '"', '"', 'all');
return returnstring;
}

As mentioned before, also make sure you do it if you're dynamicly building
URLs with a querystring
(e.g. "/blog.php?id=#something#&method=#somethingelse#")

Sorry, I don't do PHP. Someone else may have a PHP solution for you.

P


> Its an & in text, not in a URL or anything - I didn't realise this posed a
problem.
> :(


*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

RE: [WSG] Help i broke it all!

[roger]

okay i fixed it. well actually i got some help from www.devshed.com.

anyway the problem was I had a tag in my style sheet:
"position: absolute;"

the confusing thing is that the Style Sheet validated at the W3C site.

any ideas?

>  Original Message 
> Subject: [WSG] Help i broke it all!
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Tue, February 10, 2004 7:36 pm
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Okay here is where the site is in Dev:
> www.desertstandard.net/yv/
> 
> The problem is that in WIN IE6 i get the background image, the upper
> right hand image and the nav bar to appear, but nothing else shows up!
> I check the source and everything is there, its just not showing up.
> 
> In Safari 1.0 I can see everything but the Nav bar does not work and
> the upper right hand image is displaced.
> 
> In MAC IE 5.2 everything works great but the background image does not
> show up.
> 
> The CSS validates and the HTML is good save a few img close tags and
> what not.
> 
> Oh please help!
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Roger
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> *
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

[WSG] Help i broke it all!

[roger]

Okay here is where the site is in Dev:
www.desertstandard.net/yv/

The problem is that in WIN IE6 i get the background image, the upper right hand image 
and the nav bar to appear, but nothing else shows up! I check the source and 
everything is there, its just not showing up.

In Safari 1.0 I can see everything but the Nav bar does not work and the upper right 
hand image is displaced.

In MAC IE 5.2 everything works great but the background image does not show up.

The CSS validates and the HTML is good save a few img close tags and what not.

Oh please help!

Sincerely,

Roger
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Chris Stratford]

Hey Peter,
sorry i knew i forgot something:

www.neester.com/blog.php

Its an & in text, not in a URL or anything - I didn't realise this
posed a problem.
:(
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Http://www.neester.com


Peter Firminger wrote:

  
  
  
  Hi Chris,
   
  You need to escape any &
with & (even in URL query strings).
Links to the relevant files/validator results would help so we could
see the code.
   
  P
  
  

 From: Chris
Stratford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 1:01 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS


I have an interesting problem here...

i try and validate the CSS of my XHTML website...
and the CSS page says i must validate my XHTML first...
The problem is that the XHTML is actually 100% Valid.

It has a problem with the '&' symbol??
What is causing this problem?
I mean - why doesn't the CSS Validate, but the XHTML does...

Thanks for any help!
-- 
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Http://www.neester.com
* The discussion
list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 



*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

RE: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Peter Firminger]

The other suggestion is to validate the CSS file(s) 
separately at http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator-uri.html rather 
than parsing the xhtml for the linked files.
 
P

  I have an 
  interesting problem here...i try and validate the CSS of my XHTML 
  website...and the CSS page says i must validate my XHTML first...The 
  problem is that the XHTML is actually 100% Valid.It has a problem with 
  the '&' symbol??What is causing this problem?I mean - why doesn't 
  the CSS Validate, but the XHTML does...Thanks for any help!
  -- 
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Http://www.neester.com

RE: [WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Peter Firminger]

Hi Chris,
 
You need to escape any & with 
& (even in URL query strings). Links to the relevant 
files/validator results would help so we could see the code.
 
P

  
  
  From: Chris Stratford 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 
  1:01 PMTo: Web Standards GroupSubject: [WSG] Problem 
  Validating CSS
  I have an interesting problem here...i try and validate the 
  CSS of my XHTML website...and the CSS page says i must validate my XHTML 
  first...The problem is that the XHTML is actually 100% Valid.It 
  has a problem with the '&' symbol??What is causing this problem?I 
  mean - why doesn't the CSS Validate, but the XHTML does...Thanks for 
  any help!-- 
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Http://www.neester.com* 
  The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ 
  * 

[WSG] Problem Validating CSS

[Chris Stratford]

I have an interesting problem here...

i try and validate the CSS of my XHTML website...
and the CSS page says i must validate my XHTML first...
The problem is that the XHTML is actually 100% Valid.

It has a problem with the '&' symbol??
What is causing this problem?
I mean - why doesn't the CSS Validate, but the XHTML does...

Thanks for any help!
-- 
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Http://www.neester.com


*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

[WSG] W3C Recommendations RDF & OWL

[Chris Blown]

The World Wide Web Consortium has released twelve RDF and OWL documents
as W3C Recommendations, "marking the emergence of the Semantic Web as
a broad-based, commercial-grade platform for data on the Web."

http://xml.coverpages.org/ni2004-02-10-a.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-rdf-syntax-grammar-20040210/

Regards
Chris Blown

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced

[Andy Budd]

On 10 Feb 2004, at 11:03, russ weakley wrote:

Well done to Johan, Cameron and Andy for getting it up and running!

Andy has written more here:
http://www.andybudd.com/blog/archives/000154.html
No Worries.

Johan deserves most of the credit. All I did was do the MT instillation.

Andy Budd

http://www.message.uk.com/

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] FireFox - OT.. Sorry - reply off list

[Chris Stratford]

Frank wrote:

  Hey Chris,

Not sure if you've been able to get it working yet... But on the FireFox
installation notes, it says that you should turn off Extensions (if you
had any) before installing the new version:

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/releases/#install

Hope that helps.



Frank Manno
Design Interactive Group
www.di-group.net


  
  
Sorry - its OT I know.

Just wondering if anyone gets the error in the new FireFix:

Error Launching Browser Window: No XBL Binding For Window

How can I resolve this issue?
Sorry again for the OT post - please reply to me Off List.

-
Chris Stratford
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.neester.com 
-



  
  *
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 




  

just to clear this up - i worked it all out :)
thanks people :D

you all rule!
:D

(I just started using ThunderBird - loading it all up now :D)


*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] FireFox - OT.. Sorry - reply off list

[Frank]

Hey Chris,

Not sure if you've been able to get it working yet... But on the FireFox
installation notes, it says that you should turn off Extensions (if you
had any) before installing the new version:

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/releases/#install

Hope that helps.



Frank Manno
Design Interactive Group
www.di-group.net


> Sorry - its OT I know.
>
> Just wondering if anyone gets the error in the new FireFix:
>
> Error Launching Browser Window: No XBL Binding For Window
>
> How can I resolve this issue?
> Sorry again for the OT post - please reply to me Off List.
>
> -
> Chris Stratford
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.neester.com 
> -
>
>
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

RE: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced

[Peter Firminger]

Stick with it David. Our time will come. The benefits of going through the
(hard) process of getting your standards codebank together far outweigh the
pain. Once you have it, you start with a base codeset and then, creating a
new site is a much easier process. Whether you pass the savings on to your
clients or take the profit is your decision. Our "Rapid Development" (and
therefore lower budget) model for business works for us. That's why we use
CFMX and CSS so much.

Hey, even M$ have seen the light with their (delightfully flawed) campaign
announcing their attempt to clean up their FP code. Unfortunately, they
started at the wrong end.

They should sort out their Office line and it's disgusting HTML output first
so that at least a cut and paste into other editors doesn't come with a
truckload of rubbish.

Apart from that, they're barking up the wrong tree. Anyone with any interest
in valid code is not going to even think of FrontPage as a solution, and
anyone else doesn't care (yet).

Regards,

P

> I don't have any solutions at present. In fact a few events
> (relating to web
> standards) in the last few weeks at my current contract and
> online have made
> me feel that we really are fighting an uphill battle. Maybe
> we have to be
> more vocal about standards, or make our message disseminate
> further and
> wider - but at the moment I'm not sure how to do this, or even if
> designers/developers such as those who won AIMIA awards would
> even listen


*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

RE: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced

[David McDonald]

Mark,

Yes, I am as disappointed as you are about this. I received the email from
AIMIA and felt exactly the same. What's more, it would cost my company $500
a year to join AIMIA. I found that out after having to give them my private
details first, then I was told what the prices were to join. Great process.

I don't have any solutions at present. In fact a few events (relating to web
standards) in the last few weeks at my current contract and online have made
me feel that we really are fighting an uphill battle. Maybe we have to be
more vocal about standards, or make our message disseminate further and
wider - but at the moment I'm not sure how to do this, or even if
designers/developers such as those who won AIMIA awards would even listen
...


Regards,

David McDonald
Web Designer

http://www.davidmcdonald.org

Southbank, Melbourne
Australia

Mobile: 0403 332 140
ICQ: 11814164

-Original Message-
From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2004 7:14 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced



Wow - the Grammies of web design. One day these awards might pay
attention to what is actually going on in the web medium & not treat sites
as high bandwidth, "interactive" TV ads.

There are a couple of good ones in there, a couple of your usual flash
eye-candy sites and a whole bunch of rubbish.

This one looks good - http://www.ecorecycle.vic.gov.au/ - Government site,
nice "table & spacer image" based layout doing a good impression of a css
layout (all the rage these days you hear!) and an "Accessibility Rating"
link in the footer. Click the link 

"This site is not optimised for your browser. To view this site successfully
you need Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 and above or Netscape 4.0 and
above.

You can upgrade your browser from the following locations:

* Internet Explorer
* Netscape

You may proceed to the site but you may experience difficulty viewing pages.
Proceed to the home page." -
http://www.ecorecycle.vic.gov.au/www/unsupported_browser.asp

Award winning indeed. Sorry for the negativity.



Ok that was my initial reaction on seeing the awards site - I didn't send
the email at 4pm because I thought there was too much emotion there & not
enough thought. I've chilled a bit now & here's my take.

These web design awards are a pretty sorry reflection on the state of the
industry - pretty much every award I've seen places all the emphasis on
eye-candy and none on the underlying quality of a web page in terms of how
well does it "plays" in the Internet space. I'm not suggesting that sites
should win these awards solely because they are standards compliant, but
that should be a factor at least - particularly basic accessibility.

Funnily enough I've just had a guy wander into the office - I saw the name
of his company when I was browsing the AIMIA site and asked him about the
awards & gave him my take on it all. It turns out he was a judge in some of
the categories (oops). His impression is that they have to make a decision
based on the limited number of sites that are put in front of them. Also
many of the judges are not qualified or experienced in web standards, they
are just your regular IE users with broadband connections. 

Another point to make is that AIMIA does stand for Australian Interactive
Media Industry Association and not Web Standards Group. 

But still, its kinda sad that despite the progress made in developing
standards compliant sites - it's a long long way from being main stream. So
is it a problem that these awards and other "best of breed" website
showcases like the MM "Site of the day" ignore standards compliance and
accessibility as valid parts of a good web development? 

If so what can be done about it? I'm really interested in some ideas.



"Boundary-busting, stylistically baroque experiments built with DHTML and
Flash will continue to win awards as long as judges continue to view them in
the latest browsers on wide-screen G4s and Pentiums with T1 connections.
And, it goes without saying, they will win these awards only if they are
prize-worthy in their graphic design and programming. We're not talking
about bad design, here. We're talking about design at the highest levels -
but design of a certain type only.

...

I worry about the medium, because not enough designers are working in that
vast middle ground between eye candy and hardcore usability where most of
the Web must be built. And there are fewer and fewer incentives for Web
designers to toil in these fields, since this type of work pleases Web users
but wins absolutely no recognition from the industry, aside from a paycheck.
("My God, it loaded so quickly and worked so well, even in IE3 on my Dad's
old Dell machine." You know how awards show judges are always saying things
like that? Neither do I.)" 

- Mr Zeldman 
http://web.archive.org/web/20030414182353/www.adobe.com/web/features/zeldman

RE: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced

[Devlin Peter W]

Mark wrote:
"creating an additional award is not going to make the main award events
stand up and go "duh, we've been coming at this from the wrong angle".

"I also feel that hall of shame type stuff is not a great solution either -
I'm seriously wondering what the right approach would be - I really don't
know."

I think it has to be from an educational point of view. Massively targeting those who 
run the awards, are judges, might be judges, sponsors, you name it. All in good taste 
of course but they need to know that the standards exist, and for a reason, and can 
give stunning results too.

It will all be in promotion me-thinks so the Web Standard Award is not bad because the 
recognition can still be given to those who excell, and use the platform to show 
"them" what you are talking about-by example.

Regards,
Pete

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*

RE: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced

[Mark Stanton]

> > If so what can be done about it? I'm really interested in 
> some ideas.
> 
> WSG Awards? :)

I've really got my doubts about whether a WSG awards would be a solution to
this particular problem - lack of acknowledgement of web standards in
mainstream awards. I'm not saying WSG awards is a bad idea outright, but
creating an additional award is not going to make the main award events
stand up and go "duh, we've been coming at this from the wrong angle".

I also feel that hall of shame type stuff is not a great solution either -
I'm seriously wondering what the right approach would be - I really don't
know.

Cheers

Mark


--
Mark Stanton 
Technical Director 
Gruden Pty Ltd 
Tel: 9956 6388
Mob: 0410 458 201 
Fax: 9956 8433 
http://www.gruden.com

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced

[Lindsay Evans]

Lindsay Evans wrote:
WSG Awards? :)
Sheesh, didn't notice that TB was still downloading a bunch of emails 
before I replied :|

The Web Standards Awards looks pretty interesting, gives me more 
incentive to get my redesign finished :)

--
Lindsay Evans
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced

[Lindsay Evans]

Mark Stanton wrote:
If so what can be done about it? I'm really interested in some ideas.
WSG Awards? :)

--
Lindsay Evans
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced

[russ weakley]

Well done to Johan, Cameron and Andy for getting it up and running!

Andy has written more here:
http://www.andybudd.com/blog/archives/000154.html

Russ

> 
> If you remember Cameron (bloo man) posting something recently about
> starting a "standards" awards, or even if you dont:
> 
> http://www.webstandardsawards.com/
> 
> -Ben
> http://www.mxdu.com/
> 
> Mark Stanton wrote:
> 
>> Ok that was my initial reaction on seeing the awards site - I didn't send
>> the email at 4pm because I thought there was too much emotion there & not
>> enough thought. I've chilled a bit now & here's my take.
>>  

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced

[Ben Bishop]

If you remember Cameron (bloo man) posting something recently about 
starting a "standards" awards, or even if you dont:

http://www.webstandardsawards.com/

-Ben
http://www.mxdu.com/
Mark Stanton wrote:

Ok that was my initial reaction on seeing the awards site - I didn't send
the email at 4pm because I thought there was too much emotion there & not
enough thought. I've chilled a bit now & here's my take.
 

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

RE: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced

[Taco Fleur]

"If so what can be done about it? I'm really interested in some ideas."

With all the professionals on this list, surely there must be some people
who are willing to devote time to setting up a *real* awards program?

Hell, I know I'd be willing to help, I know I'm no CSS guru (yet), but I
sure could help in other ways.

PS. What you are saying makes pure sense to me, and there really is no
appreciation for real art work and hard work

Taco Fleur
Blog http://www.tacofleur.com/index/blog/
Methodology http://www.tacofleur.com/index/methodology/

Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn 


> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2004 6:14 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced
> 
> 
> 
> Wow - the Grammies of web design. One day these awards 
> might pay attention to what is actually going on in the web 
> medium & not treat sites as high bandwidth, "interactive" TV ads.
> 
> There are a couple of good ones in there, a couple of your 
> usual flash eye-candy sites and a whole bunch of rubbish.
> 
> This one looks good - http://www.ecorecycle.vic.gov.au/ - 
> Government site, nice "table & spacer image" based layout 
> doing a good impression of a css layout (all the rage these 
> days you hear!) and an "Accessibility Rating" link in the 
> footer. Click the link 
> 
> "This site is not optimised for your browser. To view this 
> site successfully you need Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 
> and above or Netscape 4.0 and above.
> 
> You can upgrade your browser from the following locations:
> 
> * Internet Explorer
> * Netscape
> 
> You may proceed to the site but you may experience difficulty 
> viewing pages. Proceed to the home page." - 
> http://www.ecorecycle.vic.gov.au/www/unsupported_browser.asp
> 
> Award winning indeed. Sorry for the negativity.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok that was my initial reaction on seeing the awards site - I 
> didn't send the email at 4pm because I thought there was too 
> much emotion there & not enough thought. I've chilled a bit 
> now & here's my take.
> 
> These web design awards are a pretty sorry reflection on the 
> state of the industry - pretty much every award I've seen 
> places all the emphasis on eye-candy and none on the 
> underlying quality of a web page in terms of how well does it 
> "plays" in the Internet space. I'm not suggesting that sites 
> should win these awards solely because they are standards 
> compliant, but that should be a factor at least - 
> particularly basic accessibility.
> 
> Funnily enough I've just had a guy wander into the office - I 
> saw the name of his company when I was browsing the AIMIA 
> site and asked him about the awards & gave him my take on it 
> all. It turns out he was a judge in some of the categories 
> (oops). His impression is that they have to make a decision 
> based on the limited number of sites that are put in front of 
> them. Also many of the judges are not qualified or 
> experienced in web standards, they are just your regular IE 
> users with broadband connections. 
> 
> Another point to make is that AIMIA does stand for Australian 
> Interactive Media Industry Association and not Web Standards Group. 
> 
> But still, its kinda sad that despite the progress made in 
> developing standards compliant sites - it's a long long way 
> from being main stream. So is it a problem that these awards 
> and other "best of breed" website showcases like the MM "Site 
> of the day" ignore standards compliance and accessibility as 
> valid parts of a good web development? 
> 
> If so what can be done about it? I'm really interested in some ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> "Boundary-busting, stylistically baroque experiments built 
> with DHTML and Flash will continue to win awards as long as 
> judges continue to view them in the latest browsers on 
> wide-screen G4s and Pentiums with T1 connections. And, it 
> goes without saying, they will win these awards only if they 
> are prize-worthy in their graphic design and programming. 
> We're not talking about bad design, here. We're talking about 
> design at the highest levels - but design of a certain type only.
> 
> ...
> 
> I worry about the medium, because not enough designers are 
> working in that vast middle ground between eye candy and 
> hardcore usability where most of the Web must be built. And 
> there are fewer and fewer incentives for Web designers to 
> toil in these fields, since this type of work pleases Web 
> users but wins absolutely no recognition from the industry, 
> aside from a paycheck. ("My God, it loaded so quickly and 
> worked so well, even in IE3 on my Dad's old Dell machine." 
> You know how awards show judges are always saying things like 
> that? Neither do I.)" 
> 
> - Mr Zeldman 
> http://web.archive.org/web/20030414182353/www.adobe.com/web/fe
atures/zeldman
2000

RE: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced

[Mark Stanton]

Wow - the Grammies of web design. One day these awards might pay
attention to what is actually going on in the web medium & not treat sites
as high bandwidth, "interactive" TV ads.

There are a couple of good ones in there, a couple of your usual flash
eye-candy sites and a whole bunch of rubbish.

This one looks good - http://www.ecorecycle.vic.gov.au/ - Government site,
nice "table & spacer image" based layout doing a good impression of a css
layout (all the rage these days you hear!) and an "Accessibility Rating"
link in the footer. Click the link 

"This site is not optimised for your browser. To view this site successfully
you need Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 and above or Netscape 4.0 and
above.

You can upgrade your browser from the following locations:

* Internet Explorer
* Netscape

You may proceed to the site but you may experience difficulty viewing pages.
Proceed to the home page." -
http://www.ecorecycle.vic.gov.au/www/unsupported_browser.asp

Award winning indeed. Sorry for the negativity.



Ok that was my initial reaction on seeing the awards site - I didn't send
the email at 4pm because I thought there was too much emotion there & not
enough thought. I've chilled a bit now & here's my take.

These web design awards are a pretty sorry reflection on the state of the
industry - pretty much every award I've seen places all the emphasis on
eye-candy and none on the underlying quality of a web page in terms of how
well does it "plays" in the Internet space. I'm not suggesting that sites
should win these awards solely because they are standards compliant, but
that should be a factor at least - particularly basic accessibility.

Funnily enough I've just had a guy wander into the office - I saw the name
of his company when I was browsing the AIMIA site and asked him about the
awards & gave him my take on it all. It turns out he was a judge in some of
the categories (oops). His impression is that they have to make a decision
based on the limited number of sites that are put in front of them. Also
many of the judges are not qualified or experienced in web standards, they
are just your regular IE users with broadband connections. 

Another point to make is that AIMIA does stand for Australian Interactive
Media Industry Association and not Web Standards Group. 

But still, its kinda sad that despite the progress made in developing
standards compliant sites - it’s a long long way from being main stream. So
is it a problem that these awards and other "best of breed" website
showcases like the MM "Site of the day" ignore standards compliance and
accessibility as valid parts of a good web development? 

If so what can be done about it? I'm really interested in some ideas.



"Boundary-busting, stylistically baroque experiments built with DHTML and
Flash will continue to win awards as long as judges continue to view them in
the latest browsers on wide-screen G4s and Pentiums with T1 connections.
And, it goes without saying, they will win these awards only if they are
prize-worthy in their graphic design and programming. We're not talking
about bad design, here. We're talking about design at the highest levels —
but design of a certain type only.

...

I worry about the medium, because not enough designers are working in that
vast middle ground between eye candy and hardcore usability where most of
the Web must be built. And there are fewer and fewer incentives for Web
designers to toil in these fields, since this type of work pleases Web users
but wins absolutely no recognition from the industry, aside from a paycheck.
("My God, it loaded so quickly and worked so well, even in IE3 on my Dad's
old Dell machine." You know how awards show judges are always saying things
like that? Neither do I.)" 

- Mr Zeldman 
http://web.archive.org/web/20030414182353/www.adobe.com/web/features/zeldman
2821/page2.html
Adobe seem to have dumped this little gem from their site :(



Cheers

Mark


--
Mark Stanton
Technical Director
Gruden Pty Ltd
Tel: 9956 6388
Mob: 0410 458 201
Fax: 9956 8433
http://www.gruden.com  

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*

Re: [WSG] CSS and IE / Mac

[LC 55]

BTW, I should have mentioned, the uppermost tab showing fully is the 'Contact' tab.
If you need a .gif of what I mean, please let me know?

Regards, JG

--- Lucian Teo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I've been very impressed with the camaraderie exhibited on this list, 
even for OT posts.

I just finished a XHTML / CSS redesign (http://allegro-ems.com/), and 
tested it out in several browsers.  It seems to cut it for all except 
IE / Mac.  The footer gets smashed against the right side.  I've been 
trying to figure out why for the past few days.  I'm out of my league 
here.

I've also had one comment that IE6 / PC messes up the "About Us" and 
"Career" pages but renders the "Partners" page just fine.  I'm baffled. 
  The CSS and layout for those three pages are identical.

I'm swept under the browser-bug whirlpool.

Lucian
tribolum.com

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 



_
Why Pay $35 for a .COM, .NET or .ORG Web Address? iDotz.Net offers Cool Domains @ 
Great Prices! Starting @ $8.75 Go: http://www.idotz.net
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 

Re: [WSG] CSS and IE / Mac

[LC 55]

Hi Lucian.
Your tabs are nestled (almost) one on top of the other, vertically in Opera 7.
This problem appeared before on this forum and should find the answer on a recent post 
by Hugh Todd.

Good luck, JG

--- Lucian Teo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I've been very impressed with the camaraderie exhibited on this list, 
even for OT posts.

I just finished a XHTML / CSS redesign (http://allegro-ems.com/), and 
tested it out in several browsers.  It seems to cut it for all except 
IE / Mac.  The footer gets smashed against the right side.  I've been 
trying to figure out why for the past few days.  I'm out of my league 
here.

I've also had one comment that IE6 / PC messes up the "About Us" and 
"Career" pages but renders the "Partners" page just fine.  I'm baffled. 
  The CSS and layout for those three pages are identical.

I'm swept under the browser-bug whirlpool.

Lucian
tribolum.com

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
* 



_
Why Pay $35 for a .COM, .NET or .ORG Web Address? iDotz.Net offers Cool Domains @ 
Great Prices! Starting @ $8.75 Go: http://www.idotz.net
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*