Re: [WSG] New User

[Gary Menzel]

> Are there any members in Brisbane?

I am in Brisbane.

Gary Menzel
Web Development Manager
IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited
Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000
PH: 07 333 44 828  FX:  07 3834 0828



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Re: [WSG] Inconsistent link color/spacing.

[Leo J. O'Campo]

John

I've checked your navbar in Safari and IE5 Mac and everything works 
cleanly.  I see no problems with it at all on the Mac.

Leo

On Friday, March 26, 2004, at 12:45  AM, John McConnico wrote:

Hello All,

I'm currently developing a left-hand Nav for a site, and am 
experiencing a
strange problem in regard to link colors staying consistent, as well as
alignment gaps in IE...

Here are the pages:

FRONT PAGE

SECONDARY PAGE

And the CSS

Basically upon revisiting either of the pages, the text links in the 
Nav
change from white to dark gray (they should remain white). Also, the 
blue
hover BG color has noticeable gaps around the edges. Both of these 
issues
only occur in IE on the PC.

There is a lot of other stuff going on in the CSS, so I figure that
something is interfering with the Nav attributes...
Anyone have any ideas? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!



Thanks in advance,

+ John Mc.

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Re: [WSG] first steps towards a valid html/css site

[commie coder]

commie coder wrote:

woops, that link would be

http://www.socialist-alliance.org/css/notable_draft.html

cheers

justin

hi all

i was introduced to this group by james ellis at a sydney php user 
group meeting a few weeks ago and have been lurking on this mailing 
list for the last week. i'm encouraged by what i've seen so far - lots 
of help and useful information, both on the website and the mailing list.

i maintain http://www.socialist-alliance.org and am making the first 
tentative steps toward making it a standards compliant site. i'm about 
a third of the way through making it a php-mysql site. my first 
no-tables page is here: 
http://www.socialist-alliance.org/css/notables_draft.html.

we are going to launch a new site for a new publication of ours over 
the next couple of weeks, and i'd like to make it standards compliant 
from the beginning. i'm new to doing css *the right way* (as you can 
see from my site), so any comments on what i've done so far would be 
welcome.

apologies if this is too vague.

cheers

justin

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Re: [WSG] Auto Width

[Leo J. O'Campo]

Sam

You to do two thing first dump the xml prologue and second encase the 
 elements as an inline list.  Although a setting of does auto means 
no width the links are be rendered as block elements due to spacing and 
s in your html.

Leo

On Thursday, March 25, 2004, at 11:56  PM, Sam Walker wrote:

 setting of width:auto should make the box only large enough to 
contain it's elements
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[WSG] New User

[G A R Y C R O U C H [ A I T ]]

Hi all,

Been refereed here by a member Mark Stanton in Sydney.

Are there any members in Brisbane?

Gary Crouch.
Gold Coast

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Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers

[Leo J. O'Campo]

What I need is some guidance in the situation I am facing now. Should I hide the stylesheet until I fix the site for Mac IE or should I just let it be? Best person to answer would be a Mac user I reckon :)

Jamie

The immediate solution for making everyone happy is checking the user agent for IE5 Mac (i.e. assuming your Mac problem is only in IE) with a script.  Once IE5 Mac is isolated, you serve it a simpler stylesheet that doesn't exhibit the bugs, but still shows the basic design.  This way you will have time to work out the bugs without shutting anyone out from your message.  You can reinstate full style when your design works acceptable on the platform.

If you stay away from pixel precise widths in your positioning, and understand how your design will flow (inline or block) according to the CSS containment hierarchy along with its inheritance, IE's bugs can be isolated much easier, and IE will behave better with floats and lists.  My advise is to create the layout structure in colored boxes using no borders, margins, padding, or style until you markup the positioning.

If you send me the URLs for the site and CSS, I would be happy to help you find and markup a bug free stylesheet for the Mac.

Leo

Re: [WSG] Auto Width [Virus checkedAU]

[James Ellis]

Hi

Remember, an inline element will collapse over linebreaks and cannot 
have block level elements inside it.

Cheers
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



This email is to be read subject to the disclaimer below.

Hi Sam,
 

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[WSG] first steps towards a valid html/css site

[commie coder]

hi all

i was introduced to this group by james ellis at a sydney php user group 
meeting a few weeks ago and have been lurking on this mailing list for 
the last week. i'm encouraged by what i've seen so far - lots of help 
and useful information, both on the website and the mailing list.

i maintain http://www.socialist-alliance.org and am making the first 
tentative steps toward making it a standards compliant site. i'm about a 
third of the way through making it a php-mysql site. my first no-tables 
page is here: http://www.socialist-alliance.org/css/notables_draft.html.

we are going to launch a new site for a new publication of ours over the 
next couple of weeks, and i'd like to make it standards compliant from 
the beginning. i'm new to doing css *the right way* (as you can see from 
my site), so any comments on what i've done so far would be welcome.

apologies if this is too vague.

cheers

justin

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[WSG] Inconsistent link color/spacing.

[John McConnico]

Hello All,

I'm currently developing a left-hand Nav for a site, and am experiencing a
strange problem in regard to link colors staying consistent, as well as
alignment gaps in IE...


Here are the pages:

FRONT PAGE


SECONDARY PAGE


And the CSS



Basically upon revisiting either of the pages, the text links in the Nav
change from white to dark gray (they should remain white). Also, the blue
hover BG color has noticeable gaps around the edges. Both of these issues
only occur in IE on the PC.

There is a lot of other stuff going on in the CSS, so I figure that
something is interfering with the Nav attributes...

Anyone have any ideas? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!



Thanks in advance,

+ John Mc.

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Re: [WSG] Auto Width [Virus checkedAU]

[Mark . Lynch]

This email is to be read subject to the disclaimer below.

Hi Sam,

> the (default) setting of width:auto should make the box only large enough
to contain it's elements, right?
This is not correct - when the width is set to auto the box will fill out
to until it is limited by margins or the parent container - and if the
margins are auto then they will shrink to 0

So the behaviour you are seeing is what it should be for a block level
element - on the other hand if you convert it to an inline element then it
will function as you expect - i.e. only fill out to the lenght of the text.

To make and element display inline use: "display: inline;"

Cheers,
Mark



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[WSG] Auto Width

[Sam Walker]

I'm having a small problem on a page. I have a div that is located 
inside another div which has a fixed width and margins: auto. The div 
contains nothing more than a couple of links, and as far as my 
understanding of this goes, the (default) setting of width:auto should 
make the box only large enough to contain it's elements, right? 
However, it is making it as wide as possible within the constraints of 
the parent div. Perhaps you can help me out:

http://asan102.spymac.net/test/
This is the page in question. The box I am having troubles with is the 
long green one containing the "Index, Bac, For" links. It is supposed 
to be only as wide as the links, but is stretching to maximum width. I 
could get around this by specifying a width, but that would mean it 
would break if the text is re-sized.

Please note that I have only tested this on Safari for Mac so far : it 
may very well have problems in other browsers, but hopefully it will be 
okay.

here is a quick link to the relevant css:
http://asan102.spymac.net/test/style.css
Any help is greatly appreciated,
Sam Walker
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Re: [WSG] Font Styles:

[Kay Smoljak]

theGrafixGuy wrote:
is for example Comic Sans MS pretty universal? Are these
fonts as safe to use as the core sans-serif and serif?
I asked this a couple of weeks ago, but from a different angle - I was 
looking for examples of nicely styled headers that don't use images 
(http://kay.smoljak.com/archives/?image-replacement-sucks/).

The two resources for font prevalence I found were:
http://www.visibone.com/font/FontResults.html
http://www.codestyle.org/css/font-family/
and also this:
http://jeffcroft.com/blog/archives/000133.php
HTH,
K.
--
Kay Smoljak
http://kay.smoljak.com
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Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers

[Hugh Todd]

Jaime,

Good on you for persevering.

It sounds as thought the bug you are encountering is one for which you 
provided a link... the inherited clear bug. The obvious (but not 
necessarily easy) fix is to avoid using "clear" when creating parent 
elements.

-Hugh Todd

The style is horribly broken on the front page in Mac IE and as for 
the inner page...the contents are floating all the way to the right of 
the page. The menu list is not showing as inline as well.
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Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers

[Jaime Wong]

Ok Leo now you are getting back on track and I accept and agree with what you said below  :)
 
What I need is some guidance in the situation I am facing now. Should I hide the stylesheet until I fix the site for Mac IE or should I just let it be? Best person to answer would be a Mac user I reckon :)
 
The style is horribly broken on the front page in Mac IE and as for the inner page...the contents are floating all the way to the right of the page. The menu list is not showing as inline as well. It is ghastly..well to me at least. That is why at the start of this post, I wanted to hide the styles till I overcome these bugs (not to shun away from Mac IE for good). There might be more than I have mentioned but I will have to see for myself in a Mac.
 
I had visited the 2 Mac related CSS bugs sites provided by this list.so lost in all those bugs. Most of the time figuring which of the listed bugs are related to mine... Still figuring them out to be honest.
 
http://www.macedition.com/cb/ie5macbugs/#floatclearbug
http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/
 
Please understand that I have only started to pick up CSS this Jan so fixing for Mac browsers related bug is still very new to me and frustrating as well as I do not own a Mac and this slows down the debugging process but that doesn't mean I admit being a loser by giving up :p
 
 
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
 
---Original Message---
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 03/26/04 03:30:59
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers
 
Jamie
 
>  the main topic here is about - To hide OR not to hide stylesheets
 
I know what the topic is...  While I agree with hiding stylesheet for
the few older browsers still out there, because their owners refuse to
use the better alternatives available, it is different for IE5 Mac
users, because we don't have available choices.  The last MSIE update
was IE5.2.2 and there may not be others according to reputable Mac
sources.  On the Mac, many users have to use IE5 for banking, stocks,
etc (esp. the many OS 9er's that can't use Safari at all) because of
the mentality that PCs are the dominant platform and there isn't any
rush for site developers to fix their code for the likes of Safari or
other Mac capable browser.
 
Now granted... I understand this Mac problem is getting better
everyday, but the mentality of not fixing code (which IMHO is the same
as shutting out styles for IEMac5 users... who would not want styles
when their hardware is capable of it) only reinforces the prejudice AND
it is prejudice when simple fixes ARE available to the site designer.
 
> Never once did I mention anything about shutting down the whole Mac
> computer platform
 
Don't take it personal.  It's just a discussion. ;-) If you were a Mac
user only and you read that piece, my expressed sentiments would jump
out at you from between the lines.
 
Leo
 
 

[WSG] Opera and speech

[russ weakley]

Opera has launched a new version with speech technology.
http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/2004/03/23/

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Re: [WSG] Browser restrictions

[Gyrus]

At 08:55 26/03/2004 +1000, you wrote:
I don't know if this question gets recycled often here, I'm very new...
What I'd like to know is if there's a good resource that shows browser
restrictions as far as CSS compatability goes.
This is an excellent collection of CSS resource links:
http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/css/index.html
He branches browser-related ones out here:
http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/css/browsers.html
Netscape host some commonly-used compatibility charts:
http://devedge.netscape.com/library/xref/2003/css-support/
More generally, these are excellent CSS resources:

css-discuss Wiki
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
CSS filters and hacks
http://www.dithered.com/css_filters/index.html
(includes full browser compatibility details for each filter/hack technique)
HTH,

Gyrus
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://norlonto.net/gyrus/dev/
PGP key available 

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Re: [WSG] Browser restrictions

[Hugh Todd]

Darian,

Rule of thumb: forget about the version 4 browsers, unless you want to 
provide something like limited font tags. Even then there are 
inheritance problems, but the use of these browsers is so limited now 
(except, as noted by others, in some corporate in-house environments... 
Optus, for example) that you are wasting your time putting any effort 
into styling for them. Better to use an @import to rule them out from 
the start. (They will then get nice, clear HTML pages with no styling.)

There is no NN5.

IE 5 Mac was, for some time, the gold standard browser, but it is now 
orphaned. In the meantime, pretty much all Mac users on System 8 and 9 
are probably using it, if not NN4. They could use NN7 if they were 
motivated and knowledgeable enough to get hold of it.

On OS X, many earlier users are still using IE5, because Safari 
appeared later in the piece. And there are still some sites (some areas 
of banking sites in particular, where Live Connect (pardon me if I am 
wrong) type calculation functions still don't seem to work properly in 
Safari) where IE5 is needed.

So you need to know the limitations and bugs in IE5 Mac (along with 
those in all the PC versions).

You can find some info here:
http://www.macedition.com/cb/resources/macbrowsercsssupport.html
and here:
http://www.macedition.com/cb/ie5macbugs/index.html
IE4, NN4, NN5, IE5Mac - I've
noticed these are mentioned a lot
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Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers

[Justin French]

On Friday, March 26, 2004, at 02:50  AM, David McDonald wrote:

From my perspective, the whole point of coding to standards means that 
it doesn't matter what browser the user is viewing your site in - they 
should be able to read your content regardless.
Whilst a little idealistic, yes that's the whole point of standards.  
We can only hope that one day we don't even have to TEST the site in 
multiple browsers -- it will just work.  But that's not today.

"They can still read your content" is also pushing it a little, because 
in reality, the Mac IE5 user will see the broken styles, and *possibly* 
be able to read / access the page.  If they can't, they'll either turn 
off their style sheets to access the unstyled content, or walk away.

Sadly, my guess is the latter for 99.9% of that community.

I certainly do hide my CSS from Netscape 4.x, but being a Mac user, 
I've always attempted to pull IE5 into line -- which means no hiding.  
There are ways to target JUST IE5Mac in your style sheets, and it can 
also be done with JavaScript or server-side scripting like PHP and ASP. 
 For IE on Windows, I use IE conditional comments to directly target IE 
versions.

I guess my point is I'd try EVERYTHING I can (JS, PHP, CSS hacks, etc) 
before giving up / hiding the style sheets / accepting a broken 
style-sheet on IE5Mac (or any other popular browser).

I would however not embed all this mess in my main style-sheet -- I'd 
either separate it into targetted style sheets (eg ie5mac.css), or at 
the very least comment the hell out of it so that in 5 years time, when 
IE Mac and most IE Win versions are irrelevant, it's easy to trim their 
bloat out of your CSS.

As already stated, there's minimal choices for Mac OS9 users, and 
anyone still on IE5Win probably has a good reason too :)

---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au
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Re: [WSG] Browser restrictions

[Neerav]

http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/browser_support/index.html

and another good site (though not updated for a few months) is:
http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/index.html
http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/css/index.html
--
Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Darian Cabot wrote:
Hi all

What I'd like to know is if there's a good resource that shows browser
restrictions as far as CSS compatability goes. 
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[WSG] Browser restrictions

[Darian Cabot]

Hi all

I don't know if this question gets recycled often here, I'm very new...
What I'd like to know is if there's a good resource that shows browser
restrictions as far as CSS compatability goes. When writing my CSSs I'd
like to know which attributes *won't* work in which browsers. I have the
latest versions of the more popular browsers, but I'm concerned about how
my CSSs hold up against the earlier browsers (IE4, NN4, NN5, IE5Mac - I've
noticed these are mentioned a lot).

Are there any attributes to be careful of as a rule of thumb?

Thanks,

Darian Cabot
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Software Engineer - Website Design
http://www.cabotconsultants.com.au
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers

[Leo J. O'Campo]

On Thursday, March 25, 2004, at 10:50  AM, David McDonald wrote:

From my perspective, the whole point of coding to standards means that 
it doesn't matter what browser the user is viewing your site in - they 
should be able to read your content regardless.

And let me add to Davis's wisdom...  in this regard content should also 
mean styled content as well.

Leo

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Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers

[Leo J. O'Campo]

David

Thank you, my thoughts exactly!  That is the point of this discussion 
tread. MSIE has interpreted the standards to suit their priorities and 
just because they hold the larger market share (on the PC), their 
getting away with it. We as developers, should not take it laying down 
or avoid the problem like it doesn't exist.  The WSG group is here to 
help us find workarounds for browsers that poorly or wrongly implement 
the standards (e.g. IE), but it's mission is to fix the problem by 
proactively advocating web standards.

Leo

On Thursday, March 25, 2004, at 10:50  AM, David McDonald wrote:

From my perspective, the whole point of coding to standards means that 
it doesn't matter what browser the user is viewing your site in - they 
should be able to read your content regardless.
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Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers

[Leo J. O'Campo]

Jamie

the main topic here is about - To hide OR not to hide stylesheets 

I know what the topic is...  While I agree with hiding stylesheet for the few older browsers still out there, because their owners refuse to use the better alternatives available, it is different for IE5 Mac users, because we don't have available choices.  The last MSIE update was IE5.2.2 and there may not be others according to reputable Mac sources.  On the Mac, many users have to use IE5 for banking, stocks, etc (esp. the many OS 9er's that can't use Safari at all) because of the mentality that PCs are the dominant platform and there isn't any rush for site developers to fix their code for the likes of Safari or other Mac capable browser.

Now granted... I understand this Mac problem is getting better everyday, but the mentality of not fixing code (which IMHO is the same as shutting out styles for IEMac5 users... who would not want styles when their hardware is capable of it) only reinforces the prejudice AND it is prejudice when simple fixes ARE available to the site designer.  

Never once did I mention anything about shutting down the whole Mac computer platform

Don't take it personal.  It's just a discussion. ;-) If you were a Mac user only and you read that piece, my expressed sentiments would jump out at you from between the lines.

Leo

RE: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers

[David McDonald]

Title: Message



From my perspective, the whole point of 
coding to standards means that it doesn't matter what browser the user is 
viewing your site in - they should be able to read your content 
regardless.
Regards,David McDonaldWeb Designerhttp://www.davidmcdonald.orgSouthbank, 
MelbourneAustraliaMobile: 0403 332 140ICQ: 11814164 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  Jaime WongSent: Friday, 26 March 2004 12:25 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message 
  to certain browsers
  

  
  
"There's a big difference between expecting someone to update 
their 
antiquated bowser, and shutting out the whole Mac computer 
platform.What you're telling us Mac people is that we shouldn't 
have bought that
Mac because a PC dominant $Microsoft company can't make a 
browser that
works to standards."
 
Leo I never say anything about not buying a Mac. I feel that you 
have misread/misinterpreted my meanings.
 
What I am saying is that there are many sites that hide stylesheets 
from NS4x because the style breaks in the browser. I was using NS4 as an 
example and the main topic here is about - To hide OR not to hide 
stylesheets - as Sarah stated that she would prefer to see a broken 
style rather than no style at all (i.e. just contents). Never once did I 
mention anything about shutting down the whole Mac computer 
platform.
 
 
 
With 
Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design 
Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
 
---Original 
Message---
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 03/25/04 
05:48:09
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] 
Hiding styles message to certain browsers
 
> There are many sites out there (be it professional or personal 
sites)
> hiding
> stylesheets from older browsers for e.g. the most common is 
Netscape
> 4x.
 
Jamie
 
There's a big difference between expecting someone to update 
their
antiquated bowser, and shutting out the whole Mac computer 
platform.
What you're telling us Mac people is that we shouldn't have bought 
that
Mac because a PC dominant $Microsoft company can't make a browser 
that
works to standards.  It's just plain bull crap.
 
Leo
 
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[WSG] Important email for WSG ADMIN

[russ weakley]

Hi all,

The list traffic is growing daily. This is a very good sign, as it shows the
list is being used and information is being shared - which is our mission.

While some people are used to high-volume lists, there are many who prefer
low volume lists. But can we please everyone? Hopefully the answer is yes.


The Discussion Room
--
The Discussion Room is designed to redirect some traffic off the list, while
keeping the general flow of information on the list. It is not a second
list. It is not designed to take over from the list. It is not designed to
take away from the list.


Is it a done deal?
--
No, we are testing the process for four weeks and then we will determine if
it will be a valuable addition or a waste of time. Nothing will be decided
without the groups consent.


How does it work?
--
Some threads seem to generate more replies than others. High-reply threads
will be moved off the list into the discussion room.

The theory is that people who are still interested in the topic can follow
it or participate in it in the discussion room. Those who are not interested
in the topic will not receive additional emails.


Who will move a thread to the discussion room?
--
We are testing this system, so we are only going to give all core WSG
members access to move a topic across to the discission room at this stage.
However, if the system is successful and approved by group members at the
end of four weeks then we will give ALL members access to post topics in the
discussion room.


How will it be done?
--
Any of the core group can decide that a topic is getting long winded. At
that point they can simply log into the discussion room, copy the original
post into a form and upload. Each discussion room post will have a unique
address, so this can then be posted back to the group.

If a core member moves a thread off the list to the discussion room they
will send a email to the list like:

"This thread has now been moved to the discussion room:
[address]

Please do not reply to this thread on list. All comments should be made in
the discussion room."

The important thing here is accepting that the system is being tested and
agreeing to co-operate with the process. If a thread has been moved to the
discussion room, there is no point if members keep replying on list.


Where is it
--
http://discuss.webstandardsgroup.org/


Can I comment on it right now!
--
Yes, we are inviting comments from all members - in the discussion room:
http://discuss.webstandardsgroup.org/archives/05.htm

Please do not reply on-list to this email. Feel free to contact us offlist
at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks
Russ and Peter


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Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers

[Jaime Wong]

 
"There's a big difference between expecting someone to update their
antiquated bowser, and shutting out the whole Mac computer platform.What you're telling us Mac people is that we shouldn't have bought that
Mac because a PC dominant $Microsoft company can't make a browser that
works to standards."
 
Leo I never say anything about not buying a Mac. I feel that you have misread/misinterpreted my meanings.
 
What I am saying is that there are many sites that hide stylesheets from NS4x because the style breaks in the browser. I was using NS4 as an example and the main topic here is about - To hide OR not to hide stylesheets - as Sarah stated that she would prefer to see a broken style rather than no style at all (i.e. just contents). Never once did I mention anything about shutting down the whole Mac computer platform.
 
 
 
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
 
---Original Message---
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 03/25/04 05:48:09
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers
 
> There are many sites out there (be it professional or personal sites)
> hiding
> stylesheets from older browsers for e.g. the most common is Netscape
> 4x.
 
Jamie
 
There's a big difference between expecting someone to update their
antiquated bowser, and shutting out the whole Mac computer platform.
What you're telling us Mac people is that we shouldn't have bought that
Mac because a PC dominant $Microsoft company can't make a browser that
works to standards.  It's just plain bull crap.
 
Leo
 
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Re: [WSG] Trimming the fat

[Vaska . WSG]

I haven't been following how things are going on PHP5, but do we have a 
target on when this might be a full stable release (and then have to 
really start dealing with it)?

v

On 25 Mar 2004, at 06:38, Justin French wrote:

PHP5 looks to have some VERY NICE features in the form of Tidy, which 
amongst other things, will help clean up HTML output -- either on the 
way to the browser, or with batch-processing.  It can even drop 
proprietary tags and elements, drop font tags, clean up your CSS, and 
much more.

It won't fix Java, bloated images and flash, or truckloads of 
presentational tables and all that guff, but it's a nice feature I'll 
be sure to try when PHP 5 is stable.

http://www.zend.com/php5/articles/php5-tidy.php

---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au
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Re: [WSG] Trimming the fat

[Justin French]

PHP5 looks to have some VERY NICE features in the form of Tidy, which 
amongst other things, will help clean up HTML output -- either on the 
way to the browser, or with batch-processing.  It can even drop 
proprietary tags and elements, drop font tags, clean up your CSS, and 
much more.

It won't fix Java, bloated images and flash, or truckloads of 
presentational tables and all that guff, but it's a nice feature I'll 
be sure to try when PHP 5 is stable.

http://www.zend.com/php5/articles/php5-tidy.php

---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au
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Re: [WSG] How about adding a reply email address to each...

[russ weakley]

Tom,

Please, as requested on several occasions, don't clog the list with admin
type requests, suggestions or comments as it adds to unnecessary traffic.
Instead, mail them directly to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank you
Russ




> individual message in the digest?  That way one can just click on the block
> that
> s/he wants to reply to and that just that block (and any quotes in it, should
> you choose to do so) would be used in the reply.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom
> http://tomwhalen.hopto.org

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[WSG] How about adding a reply email address to each...

[info]

individual message in the digest?  That way one can just click on the block that
s/he wants to reply to and that just that block (and any quotes in it, should
you choose to do so) would be used in the reply.  

Thanks,

Tom
http://tomwhalen.hopto.org
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RE: [WSG] Navigation menu working in all but IE - FIXED

[theGrafixGuy]

Thanks to Darian, the extra spaces was the issue - doh! Been a long day,
been coding three different sites for 18 hours straight today!

Thanks for the feedback Leo, nice to know the Mac side is working right!

Brian

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Re: [WSG] Navigation menu working in all but IE

[Leo J. O'Campo]

Brian

It works fine in IE5.2.2 Mac

Leo

Working on a navigation menu and it works great in everything BUT IE.
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RE: [WSG] Navigation menu working in all but IE

[theGrafixGuy]

Sorry bout that

Here is the code:

#navlist{padding: 0;margin-left: 0;margin-top:23px;font: bold 12px
sans-serif;width: 140px; border:1px solid #000}
#navlist li{list-style: none;margin: 0;border-top: 1px solid
#888;text-align: left;}
#navlist li a{display: block;padding: 0.25em 0.5em 0.25em
0.75em;border-left: 1em solid #C00;border-right: 1em solid #C00;background:
#EEE;text-decoration: none;}
#navlist li a:link { color: #06C;}
#navlist li a:visited { color: #667;}
#navlist li a:hover{border-color: #900;color: #000;background: #CCC} 

-Original Message-
From: Ben Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Navigation menu working in all but IE

offhand (without seeing the CSS) I'd say try display: block on your 
style

B

theGrafixGuy wrote:

>Working on a navigation menu and it works great in everything BUT IE.
>http://www.purplecart.com/main.php - any help would be appreciated! I 
>know it is likely staring me in the face but I am blind to it.
>
>Thanks
>
>Brian
>
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>
>
>  
>

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Re: [WSG] Trimming the fat

[Leo J. O'Campo]

Brian

Trimming excess fat off of the code does add up over time - both in 
storage
and in transfer/bandwidth
I totally agree with everything your saying.  I too remove the comments 
and redundant code before uploading a site.  I save a commented 
version, as a backup copy, so I or someone else can see what was done, 
a year from now.

 granted, I'll admit...
That response was finite and only applied to that one situation of 
removing a font family for a single generic font in a single stylesheet.

Leo

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Re: [WSG] Suggestions about what to do here ...

[Martin Stender]

Hi Michael

Won't the Tantek hack work fine?

someElement {
font-size:small;  /* fake value fed to IE5/5.5*/
voice-family: "\"}\"";
voice-family:inherit;
font-size:x-small; /* real value for most other browsers */
}
html>.someElement {
	font-size:x-small; /* Opera 5 has the same parsing bug as IE 5/5.5, 
but this fixes it, as IE  can't understand child selectors.*/
}

Martin

On 24/3-2004, at 14.46, Michael Kear wrote:

What do you guys think I should do about this ….

  

A user has logged into my bluegrass Australia web site as a member 
(http://bluegrass.org.au )  and says when he logs in, he can’t read 
the site any more, because the text is too small and the menus don't 
work properly.    The menus don't work properly because I have a 
javascript error, that’s under control, I can fix that. But the font 
size thing is a bit of a worry. I asked him about his environment and 
here’s what he said he has:

 

Intel Celeron 650 meg processor, ATI graphics card, 256 meg RAM, 
Mitsubishi monitor. I run windows 98, IE 5.

 

Here’s how I see it.  I can:

 

[A]  say he’s got IE5, tell him to take a jump because he needs to 
upgrade. (I’ve done that, but if there’s another answer that’s easy 
I’d like to do that too – he’s not alone)

[B] just let him lump it and use the CTRL-Wheel to increase the font 
size

[C] change the style sheets to accommodate IE5 users.

  

So what’s your suggestions about how I can handle this?  I’m not 
against telling him ‘tough – upgrade your browser!’  but if there’s a 
fix that’s fairly easy I’d like to consider that.

 

The site is at http://bluegrass.org.au   and I’ve set up a membership 
for you to try .. user:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  pass: member

  

The style sheets are :

  

Main pages:  http://bluegrass.org.au/styles/Bluegrass_Australia.css  

Menus: http://bluegrass.org.au/styles/cssjsmenu.css

Menus hover: http://bluegrass.org.au/styles/cssjsmenuhover.css

 

Yes, I know it’s not valid html, but I don't think that’s why this 
problem has come about.  To get the html to validate is a big job 
here, so I’m working towards that as fast as  I can.

 

 

Cheers

Mike Kear

AFP Webworks

Windsor, NSW, Australia

http://afpwebworks.com

 
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Re: [WSG] Navigation menu working in all but IE

[Darian Cabot]

I just had a play with it and found this...

the CSS is fine. If you delete all the spaces and line brakes between the
list items like this

item1item2

it fixes the probelm. Hope that helps,

Darian Cabot
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Software Engineer - Website Design
http://www.cabotconsultants.com.au
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


> Working on a navigation menu and it works great in everything BUT IE.
> http://www.purplecart.com/main.php - any help would be appreciated! I know
> it is likely staring me in the face but I am blind to it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian
>
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>
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