Re: [WSG] Next WSG meeting in Sydney - September 16

[russ - maxdesign]

Yes please
RSVP: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Keep in mind that we are keen to get other cities up and running with
meetings so contact Peter and I offlist if you want to know about your city
- [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Thanks
Russ




on 3/9/04 3:24 PM, Neerav at wrote:

> RSVP like normal to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ?

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Next WSG meeting in Sydney - September 16

[Neerav]

RSVP like normal to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ?
--
Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development & IT consultancy
Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27
http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
russ - maxdesign wrote:
Sydney WSG meeting 

Date: Thursday 16th September
Time: 6.30pm informal start for 7pm start
Where: 
Australian Museum
Search & Discover meeting room
Level 2
6 College Street Sydney

We have two exciting presentations lined up for the night.
1. Mark Stanton from Gruden will be talking about Semantically correct
mark-up.
2. Ben Bishop from Daemon with then do a presentation that "looks under the
hood" of a recently launched site that has been built using web standards.
More info: http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event18.cfm
Thanks
Russ
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] Next WSG meeting in Sydney - September 16

[russ - maxdesign]

Sydney WSG meeting 

Date: Thursday 16th September

Time: 6.30pm informal start for 7pm start

Where: 
Australian Museum
Search & Discover meeting room
Level 2
6 College Street Sydney

We have two exciting presentations lined up for the night.

1. Mark Stanton from Gruden will be talking about Semantically correct
mark-up.

2. Ben Bishop from Daemon with then do a presentation that "looks under the
hood" of a recently launched site that has been built using web standards.

More info: http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event18.cfm

Thanks
Russ

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] commonly used order of styles within a css class

[Cameron Adams]

I normally use the box model in combination with
background to foreground layering to order my styles:

- display
- positioning
- margin
- border
- padding
- background
- foreground (text)

--
Cameron Adams

W: www.themaninblue.com


--- Sean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is a common way of listing
> styles in CSS? I 
> don't mean the order of a:hover a: visited, or the
> order of 
> specification. I am thinking more of some logical
> order that would be 
> helpful to anyone else working on stylesheets I have
> created.
> 
> For example, perhaps the font and inline information
> is first, the 
> block, padding and margin information next, and then
> the positioning.
> 
> In the same way that naming conventions of CSS
> classes and IDs is 
> helpful, is anyone aware of any logical or
> consistent order in which 
> the styles are displayed in CSS?
> 
>
**
> The discussion list for 
> http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> 
> Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04
> http://we04.com/
>  Web standards, accessibility, inspiration,
> knowledge
> To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1,
> 2004
> 
>  See
> http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  for some hints on posting to the list & getting
> help
>
**
> 
> 




__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] Sitepoint & web standards

[JonathanC]

Is this the same SitePoint as in "www.sitepoint.com"?
Because, they sell a book called "HTML Utopia: Designing Without Tables 
Using CSS". If you go to the page 
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/utopia-designing-tables-css and view 
source, you'll see that it's a lot more standards-based and accessible 
than most. I ran it through the W3C Validator and, apart from a few 
unclosed anchor tags (bet it's a CMS bug), the only other violations are a 
number of non-SGML characters (mostly curly quotes). 

FWIW...

Jonathan Cooper
Manager of Information / Website
Art Gallery of New South Wales
Sydney, Australia
http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au

Wesley Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 03/09/2004 12:37:40 PM:

> Actually i own a copy of the Business Kit and one of the things that I 
> was personally disappointed with was the lack of talk about standards 
> and also accessibility for that matter.  None of the author's websites, 
> that I have seen, validate.   So obviously it is not very important to 
> his business at this point in time.
> 
> Hope that was on topic ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Wes Davis
> 
> ...

This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains 
information which may be confidential.  If you are not the intended 
recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose 
the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. 
 Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal 
advice or commitment by the sender or the Art Gallery of NSW  (ABN 24 934 
492 575) or its related entities.
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] commonly used order of styles within a css class

[Sean]

Does anyone know if there is a common way of listing styles in CSS? I 
don't mean the order of a:hover a: visited, or the order of 
specification. I am thinking more of some logical order that would be 
helpful to anyone else working on stylesheets I have created.

For example, perhaps the font and inline information is first, the 
block, padding and margin information next, and then the positioning.

In the same way that naming conventions of CSS classes and IDs is 
helpful, is anyone aware of any logical or consistent order in which 
the styles are displayed in CSS?

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Mac IE 5.2

[Hugh Todd]

Steven,
im having some issues with floats for mac IE 5.2, and really would 
lappreciate it if someone could help point out the best plan of attack 
to fix it.
The main issue is as follows:
Mac IE 5 wrongly clears floats inside clearing block elements, and you 
can't fix it with "clear:none;".

The easy way to solve it is to add a standalone clearer to your HTML 
(say after a navigation bar that you need to clear). It may need to be 
a full div. Not ideal, but it does the trick.

For more info, see 
http://www.macedition.com/cb/ie5macbugs/#floatclearbug , as well as the 
entry it links to from Philippe Wittenbergh.

Hope this helps. (If this message looks familiar, it's a cut and paste 
from a posting some time ago.)

All the best with it.
-Hugh Todd
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] ADMIN THREAD CLOSED was Sitepoint Web Business Kit

[Lea de Groot]

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:37:40 +1000, Wesley Davis wrote:
> Actually i own a copy of the Business Kit and one of the things that 
> I was personally disappointed with was the lack of talk about 
> standards and also accessibility for that matter.  None of the 
> author's websites, that I have seen, validate.   So obviously it is 
> not very important to his business at this point in time.

So, you agree - its offtopic.


Lea
-- 
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet 
The leading http://elysiansystems.com/";>Brisbane Search Engine 
Optimisation firm
Brisbane, Australia

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] ADMIN THREAD CLOSED was Sitepoint Web Business Kit

[Wesley Davis]

Actually i own a copy of the Business Kit and one of the things that I 
was personally disappointed with was the lack of talk about standards 
and also accessibility for that matter.  None of the author's websites, 
that I have seen, validate.   So obviously it is not very important to 
his business at this point in time.

Hope that was on topic ;-)
Cheers,
Wes Davis
On 03/09/2004, at 12:03 PM, Lea de Groot wrote:
On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:32:33 -0700, Wasabi wrote:
Could someone critique the Sitepoint Web Business Kit. Is it worth
the pulp, or can the info provided be found on the internet?
Guys, as a Business Kit, I doubt this is on topic.
If anyone can discuss the standards related issues of this kit - go for
and I'll be impressed. Otherwise, offlist and another thwap for Chris.
Thanks,
Lea
--
Lea de Groot
WSG Core member
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**


Wes Davis
3DVR - Web Development
PO Box 704
Palm Beach
Queensland 4221
ph:  (07) 5520 2737  |  mobile:  0421 697 427
web: www.3dvr.com.au   |   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] SorryForTheOffTopicPost

[Wasabi]

Hi,
Sincerest apologies for the off-topic post. The wealth of knowledge 
presented here sometimes impairs my judgment, as I find most of the 
comments very poignant. I'll temper this zeal in the future.

Respectfully,
Chris
http://ckimedia.com
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] ADMIN THREAD CLOSED was Sitepoint Web Business Kit

[Lea de Groot]

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:32:33 -0700, Wasabi wrote:
> Could someone critique the Sitepoint Web Business Kit. Is it worth 
> the pulp, or can the info provided be found on the internet?

Guys, as a Business Kit, I doubt this is on topic.
If anyone can discuss the standards related issues of this kit - go for 
and I'll be impressed. Otherwise, offlist and another thwap for Chris.

Thanks,
Lea
-- 
Lea de Groot
WSG Core member
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] BookMarkExport

[Lea de Groot]

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:33:46 -0700, Wasabi wrote:
>   Any suggestions on exporting bookmarks from Safari to Firefox?

It is offtopic.
Please address all replies directly to Chris.
(Chris, I'm sure a little thought would have told you this simply isn't 
web standards related)

Thanks,
Lea
~ who now has to dig out the ref to send Chris offline
-- 
Lea de Groot
WSG Core member
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] BookMarkExport

[Wasabi]

Hi,
If this is off-topic please reply directly:
Any suggestions on exporting bookmarks from Safari to Firefox?

Respectfully,
Chris
http://ckimedia.com
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] web essentials briefing/ westciv CSS Guide

[Patrick H. Lauke]

Frederic Fery wrote:
What's the (standard) benefit of using firefox over safari for testing?
Safari and Firefox have slightly different quirks and bugs when it comes 
to rendering CSS, so it's best to check in both (and, as Firefox is also 
used on many other platforms - Windows, *nix, etc - it's probably in 
your best interest to at least get an idea how your pages render in it)

Patrick
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] Mac IE 5.2

[7 sinz]

Hi,
Im a junior desinger for a company based in auckland,new zealaand.
im having some issues with floats for mac IE 5.2, and really would 
lappreciate it if someone could help point out the best plan of attack to 
fix it.

Id like to point out that we did not do the design for this site ( you'll 
choke..trust me ),
we've only been asked to make it work in all browsers, theres just alot of 
nothing happening design wise so dont be shocked when you see the page :p

The test
http://www.styrofirm.com/clients/rebeccaswan/homeb.php
to all that can help/comment or even fix :p your time/work is much 
aprreciated.

Regards
Steven
_
Protect your inbox from harmful viruses with new ninemsn Premium. Go to   
http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp?banner=emailtag&referrer=hotmail

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] web essentials briefing/ westciv CSS Guide

[Neerav]

1. a lot more people using mozilla/firefox than safari
2. Web Developer toolbar 
http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firefox&id=60&vid=63

--
Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development & IT consultancy
Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27
http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
Frederic Fery wrote:
yes it was great evening
Kate from IML gave me the copy she won of the starter kit - lucky me
I have just tried Firefox - looks very much like Safari (only after 5 
minutes of browsing) - fast, fast, fast..
What's the (standard) benefit of using firefox over safari for testing?

Frederic
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] web essentials briefing/ westciv CSS Guide

[Frederic Fery]

yes it was great evening
Kate from IML gave me the copy she won of the starter kit - lucky me
I have just tried Firefox - looks very much like Safari (only after 5 
minutes of browsing) - fast, fast, fast..
What's the (standard) benefit of using firefox over safari for testing?

Frederic
On 03/09/2004, at 9:12 AM, Herrod, Lisa wrote:
Thanks to everyone involved in organising last nights breifing, it was
really, really great.
If last night is any indication of what WE04 is going to be like, 
steal your
mama's purse and get there guys.

I was also lucky enough to win a copy of the Web Essentials starter 
Kit,
which I've been going through this morning and it's excellent. I have 
to
admit, I was hoping to win that free ticket to pass on to a friend - 
I've
booked mine already!! - but sorry to say jimmy G, I'm much happier to 
have
this CSS Guide instead (sorry mate!).

See you all in a few weeks ;)
lisa
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

---
Frederic Fery
ITD Client Web Services Manager
University of Technology, Sydney.
http://www.hss.uts.edu.au
Monday Ph: 02 9514 9933
http://www.dab.uts.edu.au
Thursday  Ph: 02 9514 8937
http://www.nmh.uts.edu.au
Friday Ph: 02 9514 5128
--
UTS CRICOS Provider Code:  00099F
DISCLAIMER: This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain
confidential information.  If you are not the intended recipient, do not
read, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this message or attachments.  If
you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately
and delete this message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the
individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority,
states them to be the views the University of Technology Sydney. Before
opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects.
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Divs and Spans

[Richard Czeiger]

Thanks Lisa - I thought the same for Span but div was stumping me.   :o)

Cheers,
R

- Original Message - 
From: "Herrod, Lisa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 9:59 AM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Divs and Spans


div - divison

span - span

I think of it as a DIVision of a page, or a section.

For span, because it's inline I think of it as the bridge spanning the
harbour, ie it's only in a single line.

(no psycho analysis please!)



I guess that makes me a geek too huh..? 

cool ;)


-Original Message-
From: Richard Czeiger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 9:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Divs and Spans


Hi guys,

U - potentially dorky question here...

Just because I'm a geek and like things like etymology: Where do the terms
DIV and SPAN come from?

Cheers  :o)
R

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**



**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

RE: [WSG] Divs and Spans

[Herrod, Lisa]

div - divison

span - span

I think of it as a DIVision of a page, or a section.

For span, because it's inline I think of it as the bridge spanning the
harbour, ie it's only in a single line.

(no psycho analysis please!)



I guess that makes me a geek too huh..? 

cool ;)


-Original Message-
From: Richard Czeiger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 9:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Divs and Spans


Hi guys,

U - potentially dorky question here...

Just because I'm a geek and like things like etymology: Where do the terms
DIV and SPAN come from?

Cheers  :o)
R

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] Divs and Spans

[Richard Czeiger]

Hi guys,

U - potentially dorky question here...

Just because I'm a geek and like things like etymology: Where do the terms
DIV and SPAN come from?

Cheers  :o)
R

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Sliding Doors and IE5.00 Mac

[Richard Czeiger]

Aha! But have you tried on Win IE 5.0 (which I believe is still a fairly
popular browser)?

:o)

R

- Original Message -
From: "Philippe Wittenbergh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Sliding Doors and IE5.00 Mac



On Sep 2, 2004, at 1:05 pm, Richard Czeiger wrote:

> Yes, Philippe - but can you figure out a way to do it so that nav
> items that
> are two or more words don't require a non-breaking space in order for
> the
> nav not to collapse as it does on your Japanese site for "about us"?
>
> R   :o)

Weird.
Works fine for me on Mac OS 9 Japanese localisation, both IE5.00 and
5.17 - as it does on IE Win (Japanese localisation), Gecko, Opera 7.x,
Safari, Konqueror3.2 (running on OS X, not 100% sure how reliable that
is).

Do you have the Japanese language resources installed ?

Philippe
---/---
Philippe Wittenbergh
now live : 
code | design | web projects : 
IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : 

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**



**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] Set mode standard wsg

[Cameron Senior]

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] web essentials briefing/ westciv CSS Guide

[Herrod, Lisa]

Thanks to everyone involved in organising last nights breifing, it was
really, really great. 

If last night is any indication of what WE04 is going to be like, steal your
mama's purse and get there guys. 

I was also lucky enough to win a copy of the Web Essentials starter Kit,
which I've been going through this morning and it's excellent. I have to
admit, I was hoping to win that free ticket to pass on to a friend - I've
booked mine already!! - but sorry to say jimmy G, I'm much happier to have
this CSS Guide instead (sorry mate!).

See you all in a few weeks ;)


lisa

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Sitepoint Web Business Kit

[Wasabi]

On Thursday, September 2, 2004, at 09:18 AM, Ted Drake wrote:
http://www.sitepoint.com/books/freelance1/
could you send a link to sitepoint?
Ted
-Original Message-
From: Wasabi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:33 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Sitepoint Web Business Kit
Hi,
Could someone critique the Sitepoint Web Business Kit. Is it worth the
pulp, or can the info provided be found on the internet?

Respectfully,
Chris
http://ckimedia.com
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Respectfully,
Chris
http://ckimedia.com
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Sitepoint Web Business Kit

[Genau Junior]

Some forums and related...


http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/archive/index.php/f-52


Genau Lopes Júnior
WebDesigner
¬¬¬
http://www.meucarronovo.com.br
- Original Message -
From: "Ted Drake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 1:18 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Sitepoint Web Business Kit


could you send a link to sitepoint?
Ted


-Original Message-
From: Wasabi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:33 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Sitepoint Web Business Kit


Hi,

Could someone critique the Sitepoint Web Business Kit. Is it worth the
pulp, or can the info provided be found on the internet?



Respectfully,
Chris

http://ckimedia.com

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**




**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

RE: [WSG] Sitepoint Web Business Kit

[Ted Drake]

could you send a link to sitepoint?
Ted


-Original Message-
From: Wasabi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:33 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Sitepoint Web Business Kit


Hi,

Could someone critique the Sitepoint Web Business Kit. Is it worth the 
pulp, or can the info provided be found on the internet?



Respectfully,
Chris

http://ckimedia.com

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] Sitepoint Web Business Kit

[Wasabi]

Hi,
Could someone critique the Sitepoint Web Business Kit. Is it worth the 
pulp, or can the info provided be found on the internet?


Respectfully,
Chris
http://ckimedia.com
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Divs or Cells

[Wasabi]

On Thursday, September 2, 2004, at 07:38 AM, Justin French wrote:
If you're genuinely looking at support for alternate devices (PDA's, 
etc) then I think CSS (with a lot of research into alternate 
stylesheets, media-specific stylesheets, etc would be well worth it -- 
far more than tables

Should I just begin with a simple GOOGLE search, or does some other 
resource exist.

On Thursday, September 2, 2004, at 07:38 AM, Justin French wrote:
However, for some designers, clients and mindsets (marketing depts 
especially), the layout is *everything*, and they'll want 
pixel-perfect, locked-down design that works for every desktop 
browser.  In this case, tables still have the upper hand if you ask 
me but since you're asking, I probably wouldn't work for a client 
like that these days, because I'm busy
I'm striving for the day I can pick and choose.

Respectfully,
Chris
http://ckimedia.com
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Divs or Cells

[Genau Junior]

You shoud try to make some test tunning versions to analyse how bandwidth
the interfaces and technologies qre faster.
I think that one conversation with your clients about the advantages of web
standards may be proper.


Genau Lopes Júnior
WebDesigner
¬¬¬
http://www.meucarronovo.com.br
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Stratford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Divs or Cells


> Just to be certain, I woudl give the option to view a super low level
> version of teh website.
> so its almost WAP like...
> Just pure text with a few images...
>
> Will make browsing faster, and more accessible...
>
> One thing to realise is.
> People using PDAs or Phones to use hte internet, pay tremendous fees.
> PERSONALLY - I wouldnt mind seeing a black/white page and save me a few
> bucks on bandwidth - than have a colour logo thats 26kb and have images
> all over the navigation bar etc...
>
> Just another POV for you to think about. :)
> Cheers
>
> Wasabi wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > If this is off-topic, please reply directly.
> >
> >   a client with an international market needs a site redesign. The
> > currently use tables, but would like a transition to CSS. My concern
> > is their market, an international base of travelers on various
> > platforms with varying skill levels.
> >
> >
> >I'm reluctant to do a full CSS redesign, fearing someone will try
> > to access the site from a PDA while on foto safari in the outback.
> > Would a well crafted, minimal table solution, i.e Designing With Web
> > Standards, fit the bill; or is CSS 2 penetration enough to ensure
> > seamless integration, as much as can be expected, for the diverse
> > client base?
> >
> >
> > Respectfully,
> > Chris
> >
> > http://ckimedia.com
> >
> > **
> > The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> >
> > Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> > Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> > To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
> >
> > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
>  Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
>
>  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
>
>


**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

RE: [WSG] Divs or Cells

[Scott Reston]

Followers of this thread may be interested in:

Pocket-Sized Design: Taking Your Website to the Small Screen
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/pocket/

Posted earlier this week on ALA.

Scott Reston
Director, Web Development
Capstrat
919/882.1966 v
919/834.7959 f
1201 Edwards Mill Road, Suite 102
Raleigh, NC 27607
www.capstrat.com 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Justin French
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 10:39 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Divs or Cells


Chris,

I think the answer to this question depends entirely on the content 
that's being displayed, and what's most important to your client:

1. accessible content
2. reliable layout in all browsers

The thing is, if you design for tables, then you're forcing the browser 
(UA) to render tables.  On hand-helds and small screens, this will more 
than likely result in lots of horizontal scrolling.

Alternately, if you design with a CSS layout, then the content is 
separate from the presentation, and some UA's can choose not to use the 
style sheet (thus just rendering the content in an accessible manner).  
You can even design stylesheets specifically for those devices and 
(with some luck) those devices will do what you want.


However, for some designers, clients and mindsets (marketing depts 
especially), the layout is *everything*, and they'll want 
pixel-perfect, locked-down design that works for every desktop browser. 
  In this case, tables still have the upper hand if you ask me but 
since you're asking, I probably wouldn't work for a client like that 
these days, because I'm busy enough to pick-and-choose.


If you're genuinely looking at support for alternate devices (PDA's, 
etc) then I think CSS (with a lot of research into alternate 
stylesheets, media-specific stylesheets, etc would be well worth it -- 
far more than tables.


Justin


On 03/09/2004, at 12:20 AM, Wasabi wrote:

>   a client with an international market needs a site redesign. The 
> currently use tables, but would like a transition to CSS. My concern 
> is their market, an international base of travelers on various 
> platforms with varying skill levels.
>
>I'm reluctant to do a full CSS redesign, fearing someone will try 
> to access the site from a PDA while on foto safari in the outback. 
> Would a well crafted, minimal table solution, i.e Designing With Web 
> Standards, fit the bill; or is CSS 2 penetration enough to ensure 
> seamless integration, as much as can be expected, for the diverse 
> client base?

---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Divs or Cells

[Justin French]

Chris,
I think the answer to this question depends entirely on the content 
that's being displayed, and what's most important to your client:

1. accessible content
2. reliable layout in all browsers
The thing is, if you design for tables, then you're forcing the browser 
(UA) to render tables.  On hand-helds and small screens, this will more 
than likely result in lots of horizontal scrolling.

Alternately, if you design with a CSS layout, then the content is 
separate from the presentation, and some UA's can choose not to use the 
style sheet (thus just rendering the content in an accessible manner).  
You can even design stylesheets specifically for those devices and 
(with some luck) those devices will do what you want.

However, for some designers, clients and mindsets (marketing depts 
especially), the layout is *everything*, and they'll want 
pixel-perfect, locked-down design that works for every desktop browser. 
 In this case, tables still have the upper hand if you ask me but 
since you're asking, I probably wouldn't work for a client like that 
these days, because I'm busy enough to pick-and-choose.

If you're genuinely looking at support for alternate devices (PDA's, 
etc) then I think CSS (with a lot of research into alternate 
stylesheets, media-specific stylesheets, etc would be well worth it -- 
far more than tables.

Justin
On 03/09/2004, at 12:20 AM, Wasabi wrote:
  a client with an international market needs a site redesign. The 
currently use tables, but would like a transition to CSS. My concern 
is their market, an international base of travelers on various 
platforms with varying skill levels.

   I'm reluctant to do a full CSS redesign, fearing someone will try 
to access the site from a PDA while on foto safari in the outback. 
Would a well crafted, minimal table solution, i.e Designing With Web 
Standards, fit the bill; or is CSS 2 penetration enough to ensure 
seamless integration, as much as can be expected, for the diverse 
client base?
---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Divs or Cells

[Chris Stratford]

Just to be certain, I woudl give the option to view a super low level 
version of teh website.
so its almost WAP like...
Just pure text with a few images...

Will make browsing faster, and more accessible...
One thing to realise is.
People using PDAs or Phones to use hte internet, pay tremendous fees.
PERSONALLY - I wouldnt mind seeing a black/white page and save me a few 
bucks on bandwidth - than have a colour logo thats 26kb and have images 
all over the navigation bar etc...

Just another POV for you to think about. :)
Cheers
Wasabi wrote:
Hi,
If this is off-topic, please reply directly.
  a client with an international market needs a site redesign. The 
currently use tables, but would like a transition to CSS. My concern 
is their market, an international base of travelers on various 
platforms with varying skill levels.

   I'm reluctant to do a full CSS redesign, fearing someone will try 
to access the site from a PDA while on foto safari in the outback. 
Would a well crafted, minimal table solution, i.e Designing With Web 
Standards, fit the bill; or is CSS 2 penetration enough to ensure 
seamless integration, as much as can be expected, for the diverse 
client base?

Respectfully,
Chris
http://ckimedia.com
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**


**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] Divs or Cells

[Wasabi]

Hi,
If this is off-topic, please reply directly.
  a client with an international market needs a site redesign. The 
currently use tables, but would like a transition to CSS. My concern is 
their market, an international base of travelers on various platforms 
with varying skill levels.

   I'm reluctant to do a full CSS redesign, fearing someone will try to 
access the site from a PDA while on foto safari in the outback. Would a 
well crafted, minimal table solution, i.e Designing With Web Standards, 
fit the bill; or is CSS 2 penetration enough to ensure seamless 
integration, as much as can be expected, for the diverse client base?

Respectfully,
Chris
http://ckimedia.com
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**