[WSG] iframe and HTML 401 strict.

2005-01-12 Thread berry 
Hi,

How come the  validator said that iframe is not a valid tag or can not be
used with HTML 4.01 strict? I remember  that I used in the past  iframe
without problem.



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Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID

2005-01-12 Thread Paul Novitski 
At 06:23 PM 1/12/05, Chris Stratford wrote:
I was asked for the first time yesterday, what the big difference and 
advantage to using an ID over a CLASS was...
Chris,
With regard to our intentions as scripters, what you and everyone else has 
said applies: ids are unique, classes are generic, and we should apply one 
or the other according to our understanding of the uniqueness of the object 
in the page structure.

At the same time, if I'm in an ambiguous situation in which I'm not sure 
whether to use id or class -- say because I've only got one instance of the 
object and I'm not sure whether there will ever be siblings -- I might 
choose id simply for reasons of speculative browser efficiency:

From a software mechanic's point of view, using id might be much faster 
than using class even if only one object is involved.  [This difference in 
speed might or might not be too slim to be humanly perceptible.]  I can 
easily imagine a browser resolving an id more quickly than a class.  Within 
its memory structure there's likely just one position reserved for a given 
id, so that, when an id is referred to and the browser searches its 
internal index for a match, it will stop at the first match.  In contrast, 
depending on how efficiently or inefficiently the browser has indexed 
objects by class, it may have to search the entire document object tree 
each time a classname is referenced to ensure that it catches all 
instances.  Even if it's created a length-tagged array of objects with a 
given class, it's probably going to require a bit more processing to walk 
an array of even one member than it will have done to match a single unique id.

But pay no mind: this kind of thinking is very Old School.  Why, way back 
in dem olden times, we had to pay attention to machine cycles because it 
really affected response time on a human scale.  Nowadays everything runs 
so fast we can just focus on how to do things right and not worry about how 
long it takes the computer to do it.

Mmm, hmm!
Paul 

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Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links

2005-01-12 Thread Richard Czeiger 
Ah yes - now I remember  :o)

Richard

- Original Message -
From: "Neerav" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links


Richard

See how I display the pipes on the horizontal menu at www.bhatt.id.au
using css borders.

the list itself has a border-left, and all list items have a border-right

Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development & IT consultancy
Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27

http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav

Richard Czeiger wrote:
>
> Sure but this only works on, like, two browsers!
> Is there a funckier CSS hack kind of way?
>
> :o)
>
> Richard
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Kevin Futter 
> *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 05, 2004 12:02 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
>
> For the line wrapping issue, you could try:
>
> whitespace: nowrap;
>
> On whatever element is giving you trouble.
>
> Cheers,
> Kevin Futter
>
> On 5/10/04 11:28 AM, "Richard Czeiger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm putting together a semantically correct UL of links for my
> footer.
> I'd like to have them separated by 'pipes' as this is a common
> and easily recognised technique.
> But the pipes themselves are irrelevant (semantically). So
> here's what I've come up with...
>
> ALSO! My one thing is that if the text inside the links is made
> up of two or more words, then they get pushed to separate lines.
> Is there a way to avoid this without specifying a width or
> without putting a 'no broken spaces' between the words?
> Can you suggest anything better?
>
>
> 
> #footer {
>  text-align: center;
> }
> #footer ul li {
>  display: inline; width: 1px;
>  margin: auto 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: 1px solid
> #00;
>  line-height: 120%;
> }
> #footer ul li:first-child { border-left: none; }
> /* Not rendered by a few agents, so we'll use the
> 'footerBorderKill' javascript function switches off the first
> child's left border */
> 
>
> 
>   
>  accesskey="1">link
> link
> with multiple words
>  accesskey="3">link
>  accesskey="4">link with NoBrokenSpaces
>  accesskey="5">link
>   
>   
> http://validator.w3.org/check/referer";
> rel="external" title="Check XHTML">xhtml
>  href="http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer";
> rel="external" title="Check CSS">css
>  href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/";
> rel="external" title="View license">cc
>   
> 
>
> // // Kills the Left Border on the Footer Navigation
> function footerBorderKill() {
>  myBody=document.getElementById('footer');
>  myBodyElements=myBody.getElementsByTagName("ul"); // Gets all
> the UL elements that are children of 'footer'
>  for( var i = 0; i < myBodyElements.length; i++ ) {
>   myList=myBodyElements.item(i); // Loops through all the ULs in
> the footer
>   myListElements=myList.getElementsByTagName("li"); // Gets all
> the LI elements that are children of the ULs
>   myLI=myListElements.item(0); // Gets the first item of the
> list of LI elements
>   myLI.style.borderLeft = 'none'; // And sets its border to
nothing
>  }
> }
> window.onload = footerBorderKill;
> file://]]>
>
>
>
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Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID

2005-01-12 Thread John Horner 
What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID??
My explanation for the existance of IDs in CSS is simply that if IDs 
are there to be used in HTML, then they need to be there in CSS too.

In other words, if you're sitting there with your own HTML document 
and you're wondering what's the difference between using an ID and a 
class to style one particular  element, there really isn't one.

But if you're in control only of the CSS document, trying to style a 
page created by someone else, or otherwise beyond your control, and 
they've used IDs for whatever reason, the CSS syntax allows you to do 
that too.

   "Have You Validated Your Code?"
John Horner(+612 / 02) 9333 3488
Senior Developer, ABC Online  http://www.abc.net.au/


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Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID

2005-01-12 Thread Mordechai Peller 
Chris Stratford wrote:
What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID?? 
Besides the benefits of greater CSS selector specificity than classes 
and its use as a target for URLs, ids also convey a semantic value which 
is different than a class and can be referred to via scripting 
(getElementById).
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Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID

2005-01-12 Thread Patrick H. Lauke 
Chris Stratford wrote:
What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID??
No measurable advantage, but it's a question of principle and 
appropriateness: if something is unique (e.g. your page will only ever 
have one header, footer, main navigation bar, content area, etc), then 
ID is the most suitable attribute to use.

Sure, you could just use classes, or - at the other extreme - define 
lots of unique IDs like #item1, #item2, #item3 and then define something 
like #item1,#item2,#item3 { /* some CSS */ } and of course it would 
work...but it's really not following the idea behind ID and class.

--
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
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RE: [WSG] Class -vs- ID

2005-01-12 Thread Alex Katechis 
another difference between classes and ids are that IDs have a higher
specificity than classes. If a class's properties conflicted with an ID's
properties, the ID would take precedence over the class.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Chris Stratford
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:23 PM
To: WSG
Subject: [WSG] Class -vs- ID


Just wondering.
I was asked for the first time yesterday, what the big difference and
advantage to using an ID over a CLASS was...
I know why classes are good!

What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID??

I know these facts,
Only 1 usage per ID per page...
Classes are unlimited, and you can assing Multiple classes to each
entity too...

So...
Why?

--

Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.neester.com




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Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID

2005-01-12 Thread Chris Stratford 
BTW I know IDs are needed for LABELS and other FORM elements.
:)
Cheers
Chris Stratford wrote:
Just wondering.
I was asked for the first time yesterday, what the big difference and 
advantage to using an ID over a CLASS was...
I know why classes are good!

What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID??
I know these facts,
Only 1 usage per ID per page...
Classes are unlimited, and you can assing Multiple classes to each 
entity too...

So...
Why?

--

Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.neester.com


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Re: [WSG] Class -vs- ID

2005-01-12 Thread Jeff Lowder - Accessibility 1st 
IDs have higher specificity is another.
You can link/anchor to them that way.

Cheers
Jeff


On 13/1/05 1:23 PM, "Chris Stratford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Just wondering.
> I was asked for the first time yesterday, what the big difference and
> advantage to using an ID over a CLASS was...
> I know why classes are good!
> 
> What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID??
> 
> I know these facts,
> Only 1 usage per ID per page...
> Classes are unlimited, and you can assing Multiple classes to each
> entity too...
> 
> So...
> Why?


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Re: [WSG] Problem UL with Firefox

2005-01-12 Thread Bruno Torres 
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:20:55 +1100, Cook, Graham R
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>  
> Can anyone assist with a hack that is for Firefox only. I have found that
> bot IE6 and Opera 7.54 place the list-image outside the border area of the
> ul. Firefox however places the image inside the ul border. The hacks I have
> used  all affect both Firefox and Opera. Any suggestions please. 
>   
> Thanks 
> Graham Cook 
>   

Well, I've made the things a little different. Look here:
http://www.dotplusweb.com/ul_test.html
It's similar to what you where trying to achieve and has the same
results in firefox 1.0, IE6/Win and Oper 7/Win.
The code is different and very smaller and semantic.
This is the code (you'd better look it at the url above):







Internet Explorer

Newsletter
Ed 17 (23/11/04)
Confidential standards are now hosted on our http://www.in.telstra.com.au/ism/onlinestandards/";>Intranet
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www.brunotorres.net
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[WSG] Class -vs- ID

2005-01-12 Thread Chris Stratford 
Just wondering.
I was asked for the first time yesterday, what the big difference and 
advantage to using an ID over a CLASS was...
I know why classes are good!

What is the advantage of an ID over simply giving something an ID??
I know these facts,
Only 1 usage per ID per page...
Classes are unlimited, and you can assing Multiple classes to each 
entity too...

So...
Why?
--

Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.neester.com


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[WSG] Problem UL with Firefox

2005-01-12 Thread Cook, Graham R 
Bert, 

I cut down the html to minimum possible, actual lists include many
items, plus several lists in each panel. Panel is also part of
containing div which contains several of these panels.

Thanks anyway
Graham
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Re: [WSG] Problem UL with Firefox

2005-01-12 Thread Bert Doorn 
Hi Graham
That looks like a very complex setup to display what is really a 
simple list of two items, with an image for a bullet. Perhaps the 
complexity is causing your problem (or the extra markup to 
highlight the problem is confusing me)?

How about this approach:
ul {
  list-style: none;
  margin:0;
  padding:0;
}
li {
  background: transparent url(whatever) no-repeat;
  padding-left: 30px;
}
Seems to work fine in Opera, MSIE and Firefox (on a quick test I 
ran)   But maybe I'm missing something.

Regards
--
Bert Doorn, Better Web Design
http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/
Fast-loading, user-friendly websites
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[WSG] Problem UL with Firefox

2005-01-12 Thread Cook, Graham R 



Found my 
problem;  
 
Here's the trick 
(after reading MaxDesign 'Taming Lists')
 
1.Mark margin-left 
and padding-left of both ul and li to 0px
2.Use the ul 
margin-left to set image position in em
3. Use the li 
padding-left in em to set the distance between the image and the 
text
 
.cssRightModuleContent 
ul{ margin-top:.25em; margin-left:1em; padding-left:0px; } .cssRightModuleContent 
li{ list-style-image : 
url(/global/res/images/orange_bullet.gif); margin-left: 0px; 
 padding-left:10em; list-style-position : 
outside; }
 
Cheers
 
Graham 
Cook

Re: [WSG] Problem UL with Firefox

2005-01-12 Thread Patrick H. Lauke 
Cook, Graham R wrote:
Can anyone assist with a hack that is for Firefox only. I have found 
that bot IE6 and Opera 7.54 place the list-image outside the border area 
of the ul. Firefox however places the image inside the ul border. The 
hacks I have used  all affect both Firefox and Opera. Any suggestions 
please.
Sheesh, a wealth of hacks already there, which are useless. You've 
started running around in circles, compensating for differences on a per 
browser basis, when all you needed to do was to define all the defaults 
properly:

remove the hacks
/*Regognised by Firefox and Opera
html>body .cssRightModuleContent ul {margin-left: -10px;} */
/*Regognised by Firefox and Opera
head:first-child+body .cssRightModuleContent ul {margin-left: -10px;}  */
/*Regognised by Firefox and Opera
 html>body .cssRightModuleContent ul  {ma\rgin-left: -10px; } */
/*Regognised by Internet Explorer
* html .cssRightModuleContent ul {margin-left: -10px;}  */
and simply add
padding:0;
to your ".cssRightModuleContent ul" definition
There are a lot more tweaks and fixes that should be done to the styles, 
but the main point to take away from this: each browser has slightly 
different defaults for margin and padding of different elements (in this 
case, lists); to achieve consistent results, define them both. Don't 
just assume that padding will be zero, define it explicitly.

On a related topic: 
http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/15/emreallyem-undoing-htmlcss/

--
Patrick H. Lauke
_
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[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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[WSG] Problem UL with Firefox

2005-01-12 Thread Cook, Graham R 




Can anyone assist 
with a hack that is for Firefox only. I have found that bot IE6 and Opera 
7.54 place the list-image outside the border area of the ul. Firefox however 
places the image inside the ul border. The hacks I have used  all affect 
both Firefox and Opera. Any suggestions please.
 
Thanks
Graham Cook
 

Code: (ul and li 
borders for demonstration only)
 

.cssRightModule{
 right:0px;
 padding:0px;
 margin:0px;
 width:240px;
 font-size 
: 80%;
 font-family: 
Verdana,Arial,sans-serif;
 color:#003366;
 }