Re: [WSG] Help with IE giving me a big white space - FIXED

[Helen . Rysavy]

never mind, my brain finally kicked in - fixed now

Cheers

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Helen Rysavy
Web Designer
Teaching & Learning Development Group
Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909
Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
CRICOS Provider No: 00300K
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  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  du.au To:   
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org  
  Sent by:  cc: 
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject:  [WSG] Help with IE 
giving me a big white space 
  dsgroup.org   
 

 

 
  16/09/2005 01:20  
 
  PM
 
  Please respond to 
 
  wsg   
 

 

 




Hello

Any help would be appreciated

http://learnline.cdu.edu.au/wip/hit111/  renders fine in Firefox

Has a big white block under my utilities at the top in IE6

Please help as I just can't figure this out.

Thank you :)
Helen

***
Helen Rysavy
Web Designer
Teaching & Learning Development Group
Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909
Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
CRICOS Provider No: 00300K
***


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Re: [WSG] check website

[infopre]

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote :



A few suggestions:



1) The site could fit at 800x600, but the fixed margins make it too large.
2) Consider using text with background images for the menu and footer,
instead of images of text.  This would reduce file size and make the
site useable by people who can't or won't view images.  If that isn't
an option, at least provide alt attributes for the images that contain
text.
3) I'd recommend replacing multiple < br /> tags with margins or padding.
4) You have more than one element with the ID "cent".  Use classes
instead, and your site will validate.
5) Use headings such as < h1> and < h2> instead of symantically empty
elements such as < div id="header">


Thanks a lot :))

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RE: [WSG] Content that jumps

[Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox]

Cheers, I'll give that a go, it's in there now, would you mind having
another look at it?

thanks

Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox
an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 .
http://www.pacificfox.com



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, 16 September 2005 1:45 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [WSG] Content that jumps
> 
> 
> Good evening Taco,
> 
> It's still occurring in FF, and I've heard it referred to as 
> the "2 pixel push," therefore place the following rule at the 
> top of your main CSS file:
> 
> html
> {height: 100%;
>  margin-bottom: 1px;}
> 
> Kind regards,
> Mario
> 
> > The content has stopped jumping, haven't changed anything in the 
> > structure. Has anyone seen anything like this before?
> >
> >
> > Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox
> > an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . 
> > http://www.pacificfox.com 
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Taco Fleur - 
> > Pacific Fox
> > Sent: Friday, 16 September 2005 11:25 AM
> > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> > Subject: [WSG] Content that jumps
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have this page with 3 columns, for some reason the divs jump when 
> > the page is loaded. I checked if the HTML is valid, and it is.
> >
> > Anybody any idea on this?
> >
> > http://testing.icanmls.pacificfox.com
> >
> > I am looking at it in IE6 by the way.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox
> > an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . 
> > http://www.pacificfox.com 
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 


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RE: [WSG] Content that jumps

[Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox]

Title: Message



that's 
weird, comes up for me through megaproxy.com
 
 
 
Taco Fleur 
- Pacific Foxan industry leader with 
commercial IT experience since 1994 …http://www.pacificfox.com

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
  Behalf Of Gary MenzelSent: Friday, 16 September 2005 1:49 
  PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] 
  Content that jumps
  There is nothing to see.
   
  I am on IE 6 and get a blank page with the following HTML in 
it.
   
   
   
  And. it takes AGES to come back with that response.
   
  On 9/16/05, Taco Fleur 
  - Pacific Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  
The content has stopped 
jumping, haven't changed anything in the structure.
Has anyone seen anything 
like this before?
 
 
Taco Fleur 
- Pacific Foxan industry leader 
with commercial IT experience since 1994 …http://www.pacificfox.com

  
  -Original 
  Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Taco 
  Fleur - Pacific Fox Sent: Friday, 16 September 2005 11:25 
  AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] 
  Content that jumps
  Hi all,
   
  I have this page with 3 columns, for 
  some reason the divs jump when the page is loaded.
  I checked if the HTML is valid, and it 
  is.
   
  Anybody any idea on 
  this?
   
  http://testing.icanmls.pacificfox.com 
  
   
  I am looking at it in IE6 by the 
  way.
   
  Thanks,
   
  Taco Fleur 
  - Pacific Foxan industry 
  leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 …http://www.pacificfox.com
   

[WSG] Help with IE giving me a big white space

[Helen . Rysavy]

Hello

Any help would be appreciated

http://learnline.cdu.edu.au/wip/hit111/  renders fine in Firefox

Has a big white block under my utilities at the top in IE6

Please help as I just can't figure this out.

Thank you :)
Helen

***
Helen Rysavy
Web Designer
Teaching & Learning Development Group
Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909
Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
CRICOS Provider No: 00300K
***


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Re: [WSG] Content that jumps

[Gary Menzel]

There is nothing to see.
 
I am on IE 6 and get a blank page with the following HTML in it.
 

 
And. it takes AGES to come back with that response.
 
On 9/16/05, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

The content has stopped jumping, haven't changed anything in the structure.
Has anyone seen anything like this before?
 
 
Taco Fleur - Pacific Foxan industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 …
http://www.pacificfox.com


-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox
Sent: Friday, 16 September 2005 11:25 AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject:
 [WSG] Content that jumps
Hi all,
 
I have this page with 3 columns, for some reason the divs jump when the page is loaded.
I checked if the HTML is valid, and it is.
 
Anybody any idea on this?
 
http://testing.icanmls.pacificfox.com 

 
I am looking at it in IE6 by the way.
 
Thanks,
 
Taco Fleur - Pacific Foxan industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 …
http://www.pacificfox.com
 

Re: [WSG] Content that jumps

[Mike Brown]

Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox wrote:


The content has stopped jumping, haven't changed anything in the structure.
Has anyone seen anything like this before?
 


Yup. I've found that the content gets really tired from jumping after a 
while and stops. Usually it takes a few hours solid jumping for it to 
get that tired. It may start again after a good night's sleep though :)


Mike
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RE: [WSG] Content that jumps

[Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox]

Title: Message



The 
content has stopped jumping, haven't changed anything in the 
structure.
Has 
anyone seen anything like this before?
 
 
Taco Fleur 
- Pacific Foxan industry leader with 
commercial IT experience since 1994 …http://www.pacificfox.com

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
  Behalf Of Taco Fleur - Pacific FoxSent: Friday, 16 September 
  2005 11:25 AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] 
  Content that jumps
  Hi 
  all,
   
  I have this page 
  with 3 columns, for some reason the divs jump when the page is 
  loaded.
  I checked if the 
  HTML is valid, and it is.
   
  Anybody any idea 
  on this?
   
  http://testing.icanmls.pacificfox.com 
  
   
  I am looking at it 
  in IE6 by the way.
   
  Thanks,
   
  Taco Fleur 
  - Pacific Foxan industry leader 
  with commercial IT experience since 1994 …http://www.pacificfox.com
   

[WSG] Content that jumps

[Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox]

Title: Message



Hi 
all,
 
I have this page 
with 3 columns, for some reason the divs jump when the page is 
loaded.
I checked if the 
HTML is valid, and it is.
 
Anybody any idea on 
this?
 
http://testing.icanmls.pacificfox.com 

 
I am looking at it 
in IE6 by the way.
 
Thanks,
 
Taco Fleur 
- Pacific Foxan industry leader with 
commercial IT experience since 1994 …http://www.pacificfox.com
 

RE: [WSG] images in html or css

[Chris Hardy]

I find that centralizing images in css is useful for maintainability.  

However, if page load time is an issue, it's a good idea to stress test the
site with both images in html and css. when they're in html, the height and
width tells the browser how big the image is which helps it load a little
faster and you can use preload scripts that you can't use for
background-images. 

Of course you can get fancy with squid or some other caching engine, but
even though browsers cache the stylesheet, they do not cache the images
linked from the stylesheet so caching is a little more work. 


ymmv

-chris

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Re: [WSG] check website

[Thierry Koblentz]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> please, check this website
> http://www.creareconkaterina.com
>

Hi Daniele,
You have more than *140kb* of images on this page... IMHO, you should try to
reduce that...

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] check website

[Kenny Graham]

A few suggestions:

1) The site could fit at 800x600, but the fixed margins make it too large.
2) Consider using text with background images for the menu and footer,
instead of images of text.  This would reduce file size and make the
site useable by people who can't or won't view images.  If that isn't
an option, at least provide alt attributes for the images that contain
text.
3) I'd recommend replacing multiple < br /> tags with margins or padding.
4) You have more than one element with the ID "cent".  Use classes
instead, and your site will validate.
5) Use headings such as < h1> and < h2> instead of symantically empty
elements such as < div id="header">
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Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[Thierry Koblentz]

Drake, Ted C.  wrote:
> I like using definition lists over paragraphs for their inherit
> structure and the hooks they provide for CSS.
> Do you see any reasons to not use a dl?

I "like" DLs too ;)
I have 2 or 3 in this site already. But here I don't think it would be the
correct markup.
Beside that, server-side, it would create a loop inside another loop, not
what I'm really after...

> This is probably making several people on the list grab their
> forehead and scream ... "who cres!"

;)

Best,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[Chris Kennon]

A standards Compliant e-solution for future reference:

(http://www.zen-cart.com/modules/frontpage/)

C
On Sep 15, 2005, at 11:13 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:


Hi Ted,



If were gonna git nitpicky.
I'd clean up this code on the shopping cart:



Ouch! I guess I still have more work to do then :)
I've started with a commercial (shopping cart) package.
Out of the box, the markup doesn't validate, tables are all over  
the place,
deprecated markup, bunch of anchors not in list items, divitis,  
classitis,

no accessibility "features", etc.
I've cleaned up most of it, but obviously I missed a few things...  
Not easy
to go through the markup inside *lines* of ASP scripts, I did *not*  
even see

the event handler in there ;)
(the Admin section shows the type of markup the original SS-Scripts
generate).



I like the even/odd rows for tables and divs in this page and the
product page.  If you are not already using the zebraAll.js script
from list member Patrick Lauke, give him a holler. It handles the
striping of divs, tables, lists, and more from one script. I've been
using it and absolutely love it.



I prefer to do that Server-Side, but I'll take a look at the JS  
solution,

thanks for the pointer.



Will you be releasing this as a package soon? E-commerce forms are a



Since it is based on a commercial product, I don't think the  
license allows
me to *resell* it as a "package". Even it is *very far* from the  
original

product. ;-(



dime a dozen but there is so little out there that is as well
thought-out as this.
Nice work.



Thanks,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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[WSG] check website

[infopre]

Hi guys,
 
please, check this 
website
http://www.creareconkaterina.com
 
cheers
 
Daniele

RE: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[Drake, Ted C.]

I see what you mean. I thought of the dashes and thought bullets. 
I think the definition list could be better
product name
color
size

I like using definition lists over paragraphs for their inherit structure
and the hooks they provide for CSS.

Do you see any reasons to not use a dl?

I'm still not liking the comma analogy of a sentence. Perhaps in other
languages it could work. In English the adjectives go before the noun. 

So it would be color:black, size:small T-shirt

This is probably making several people on the list grab their forehead and
scream ... "who cres!"

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 12:04 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

Drake, Ted C.  wrote:
> If were gonna git nitpicky.
> I'd clean up this code on the shopping cart:

I was going to change the markup as you suggested, but then I thought that a
list may not be the correct markup for this. Because it would suggest that
there are 3 different items when in fact it is one single item followed by
options related to it.
Don't you think this:
Product Name (Reference), Color: Black, Size: X-Small
makes more sense than:
- Product Name (Reference)
- Color: Black
- Size: X-Small

In the markup, BRs are just used in lieu of the "," to make the content of
the cell more legible.

Best,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

 
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Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[Thierry Koblentz]

Drake, Ted C.  wrote:
> If were gonna git nitpicky.
> I'd clean up this code on the shopping cart:

I was going to change the markup as you suggested, but then I thought that a
list may not be the correct markup for this. Because it would suggest that
there are 3 different items when in fact it is one single item followed by
options related to it.
Don't you think this:
Product Name (Reference), Color: Black, Size: X-Small
makes more sense than:
- Product Name (Reference)
- Color: Black
- Size: X-Small

In the markup, BRs are just used in lieu of the "," to make the content of
the cell more legible.

Best,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] OT: Good Flash development mailing lists/forums

[morten fjellman]

I've been using this one for a couple of years. http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/flashproBeen a bit dorment lately, but the members reply swiftly and are the most professional Flash developers I've come across.
RegardsFjellmanOn 9/15/05, kvnmcwebn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Does anyone know of any good, active and busy, Macromedia Flash developmentmailing lists or forums?Thanks,Stephendont know if this is o.t. but  check out
www.flashkit.com**The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See 
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Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[Thierry Koblentz]

Hi Ted,

> If were gonna git nitpicky.
> I'd clean up this code on the shopping cart:

Ouch! I guess I still have more work to do then :)
I've started with a commercial (shopping cart) package.
Out of the box, the markup doesn't validate, tables are all over the place,
deprecated markup, bunch of anchors not in list items, divitis, classitis,
no accessibility "features", etc.
I've cleaned up most of it, but obviously I missed a few things... Not easy
to go through the markup inside *lines* of ASP scripts, I did *not* even see
the event handler in there ;)
(the Admin section shows the type of markup the original SS-Scripts
generate).

> I like the even/odd rows for tables and divs in this page and the
> product page.  If you are not already using the zebraAll.js script
> from list member Patrick Lauke, give him a holler. It handles the
> striping of divs, tables, lists, and more from one script. I've been
> using it and absolutely love it.

I prefer to do that Server-Side, but I'll take a look at the JS solution,
thanks for the pointer.

> Will you be releasing this as a package soon? E-commerce forms are a

Since it is based on a commercial product, I don't think the license allows
me to *resell* it as a "package". Even it is *very far* from the original
product. ;-(

> dime a dozen but there is so little out there that is as well
> thought-out as this.
> Nice work.

Thanks,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[Thierry Koblentz]

David Laakso wrote:
> XP_SP2 IE/Moz/FF/Opera
> It is an attractive and aesthetically pleasing site, Thierry. The two
> butterflies hitting the right viewport is a nice touch.

Thanks, the idea came *late*, that's why they get cut-off at 800px ;)
I'll try to think of something...

> That, said-- here comes the nit-picking:
> -- Extremely difficult to read the content text. There is just not
> enough contrast.

I totally agree, but I wanted to give it some "not much contrast look".
In "real life", I'd give the user the option to add contrast.

> -- The page is not working as well as I think you may want at 800 in
> any of my browsers. The viewport edge butterflies get chopped,
> difficulty with a  sidebar in place, and a slight h-scroll bar in FF.

I'll work on these bugs ;)

> There are some Safari, Mac/IE5.2, Win/2000, and XP screen captures
> here: 

Thanks a lot for these David,
The IE5 Mac capture confirms what I experienced, weird that Chris' browser
renders the tabs differently...

Best,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[Thierry Koblentz]

Chris Kennon wrote:
>> Butterfly.com looks good in Safari 2.0.1, Firefox 1.5.1 Beta, Opera
>> 8.0.2
>> nav_bar shifts to the left in IE 5.2 in the mac.

Thanks Chris,
The weird thing is that IE5 Mac is the only browser I've checked with on Mac
(because of a particular bug I found re: top image). I used  IE5.0/OS9 and
IE5.2.3/OSX and neither one shows that shift ;-(

Thierry | http://www.tjkdesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[Thierry Koblentz]

Paul Dwyer wrote:
> Looks good on FF, OS10.3.9
> The menu tab slides away when the window is resized too small, but it
> is not likely people will go as far as I did.

Wendy sent me some screenshots off-list (FF and Opera Mac). I found this
interesting because on PC, FF doesn't deal with the layout the same way at
all. The menu stays where it is supposed to instead of sliding left...

> Love the content!

;)

Thanks Paul,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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RE: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Thierry

If were gonna git nitpicky.
I'd clean up this code on the shopping cart:

 

Marbled White
(023-BAXS)
 
» Color: Black
 
» Size: X-Small
 
$75.00 
 
$75.00 
  


To:

 


 
Marbled White
(023-BAXS)
Color: Black
Size: X-Small

 
$75.00 
 
$75.00 
  



Use CSS to define the alignment on the cells, use an unordered list instead
of br tags.

I like the even/odd rows for tables and divs in this page and the product
page.  If you are not already using the zebraAll.js script from list member
Patrick Lauke, give him a holler. It handles the striping of divs, tables,
lists, and more from one script. I've been using it and absolutely love it.


Will you be releasing this as a package soon? E-commerce forms are a dime a
dozen but there is so little out there that is as well thought-out as this.

Nice work.

Ted




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of David Laakso
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:44 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

Thierry Koblentz wrote:

>http://www.tjkdesign.com/eStore/
>
>I've put it through a few browsers on PC, but I'm pretty limited on the Mac
>side...
>
>Thanks,
>Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
>
>
>  
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Re: [WSG] images in html or css

[Ben Curtis]

Is the  tag still widly used among list members. Should
we put as many of the images we can in the css as backgrounds etc.

Right now i put most sitewide images in the css and the page by  
page content

in with the  tag.



Content goes in the html.
Presentation guides for content go in the css.

One way to tell if an image is content is to ask yourself these two  
questions:


- With images off, would the user miss it? (yes = it's content)
- Will this change if we redesign? (yes = presentation)

--

Ben Curtis : webwright
bivia : a personal web studio
http://www.bivia.com
v: (818) 507-6613




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Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[David Laakso]

Thierry Koblentz wrote:


http://www.tjkdesign.com/eStore/

I've put it through a few browsers on PC, but I'm pretty limited on the Mac
side...

Thanks,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com


 


XP_SP2 IE/Moz/FF/Opera
It is an attractive and aesthetically pleasing site, Thierry. The two 
butterflies hitting the right viewport is a nice touch.

That, said-- here comes the nit-picking:
-- Extremely difficult to read the content text. There is just not 
enough contrast.
-- The off-red color and the underlined links punch holes in and rip and 
tear the fabric of the text.
-- The page is not working as well as I think you may want at 800 in any 
of my browsers. The viewport edge butterflies get chopped, difficulty 
with a  sidebar in place, and a slight h-scroll bar in FF.

There are some Safari, Mac/IE5.2, Win/2000, and XP screen captures here:

Best,
~dL



--
David Laakso
http://www.dlaakso.com

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Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[Paul Dwyer]

Looks good on FF, OS10.3.9

The menu tab slides away when the window is resized too small, but it
is not likely people will go as far as I did.

Love the content!

pd

On 9/15/05, Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.tjkdesign.com/eStore/
> 
> I've put it through a few browsers on PC, but I'm pretty limited on the Mac
> side...
> 
> Thanks,
> Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
> 
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Re: [WSG] images in html or css

[Jan Brasna]

techniques like FIR of hiding foreground text and putting images in CSS
have problems in accessibility software


So the designer should use a smart IR solution.

--
Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com
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Re: [WSG] images in html or css

[Matthew Cruickshank]

On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 16:03 +0100, kvnmcwebn wrote:
> Is the  tag still widly used among list members. Should
> we put as many of the images we can in the css as backgrounds etc.
> Right now i put most sitewide images in the css and the page by page content
> in with the  tag.

I don't think that it should be based on whether it's page-by-page or
sitewide, but on whether it's content or decoration. If it's content it
should be an  tag, and decoration goes in the CSS.

I think it's a faddy thing to put a lot of images in CSS, especially
things like site logos like plone.org does, or common icons. It's using
CSS like an includes file, to save updating multiple  tags across a
site, which I think is a misuse of CSS.

Keeping  for content and CSS for style is especially important as
techniques like FIR of hiding foreground text and putting images in CSS
have problems in accessibility software:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fir/


.Matthew Cruickshank
http://holloway.co.nz/

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Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[Chris Kennon]

Hi,

Butterfly.com looks good in Safari 2.0.1, Firefox 1.5.1 Beta, Opera  
8.0.2


nav_bar shifts to the left in IE 5.2 in the mac.




On Sep 15, 2005, at 7:51 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:


http://www.tjkdesign.com/eStore/

I've put it through a few browsers on PC, but I'm pretty limited on  
the Mac

side...

Thanks,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] images in html or css

[Claudio Dias]

I agree with Bert!

Regards,
-- Cláudio Diashttp://www.mundonu.com

Re: [WSG] images in html or css

[Patrick H. Lauke]

kvnmcwebn wrote:

hello,
Just Wondering-
Is the  tag still widly used among list members. Should
we put as many of the images we can in the css as backgrounds etc.

Right now i put most sitewide images in the css and the page by page content
in with the  tag.


IMG elements should always be used when the image is actual content. 
Fluff images (flowery borders, an abstract little mood image, etc) 
should go in the CSS. Don't go overboard in "abolishing" IMG...just as 
with tables (for tabular data), there is still a need for them.



--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__
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Re: [WSG] images in html or css

[Bert Doorn]

G'day


Is the  tag still widly used among list members. Should
we put as many of the images we can in the css as backgrounds etc.
Right now i put most sitewide images in the css and the page by page content
in with the  tag.
 

My approach is (generally) that purely decorative images should ideally go in the css as backgrounds.  


Images with meaning (e.g. photos of products, mugshots of staff, graphs, etc) 
should be placed in the (x)html via the img element, with appropriate alt 
attribute.

But I am only speaking for myself - others may have a different 
approach/opinion.

Regards 
--

Bert Doorn, Better Web Design
http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/
Fast-loading, user-friendly websites 



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[WSG] images in html or css

[kvnmcwebn]

hello,
Just Wondering-
Is the  tag still widly used among list members. Should
we put as many of the images we can in the css as backgrounds etc.

Right now i put most sitewide images in the css and the page by page content
in with the  tag.



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[WSG] Site Check (eStore)

[Thierry Koblentz]

http://www.tjkdesign.com/eStore/

I've put it through a few browsers on PC, but I'm pretty limited on the Mac
side...

Thanks,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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RE: [WSG] OT: Good Flash development mailing lists/forums

[kvnmcwebn]

Does anyone know of any good, active and busy, Macromedia Flash development
mailing lists or forums?

Thanks,
Stephen


dont know if this is o.t. but  check out
www.flashkit.com


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[WSG] OT: Good Flash development mailing lists/forums

[Stevio]

Does anyone know of any good, active and busy, Macromedia Flash development 
mailing lists or forums?


Thanks,
Stephen 




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[WSG] [Idea] Web designer/developer pool for Open Source projects

[Wong Chin Shin]

Hi all,

I'm mooting the idea of having a pool of web designers/developers who have
an interest in OpenSource projects to provide voluntary services for
creating their web fronts. Most OpenSource projects have zilch-nada budget
for marketing and the cheapest avenue is the web. However, as OpenSource
projects' scope are often far beyond that of web design and standards, the
good folks behind these projects may have no idea of what is a good and
effective standards-compliant website. Their websites may just be quick and
dirty content that are chockfull of tables, graphic text yadda yadda. No
fault of theirs, especially if they're a bunch of systems programmers who
previously had no business being on the web. These people need help, and if
they ask for it, it'd be good to have a pool of like-minded web pros who are
willing to contribute.

I got this idea from the concept behind http://www.openusability.org, where
a bunch of usability experts created a pool ready to provide their skills to
OpenSource projects who register their projects with them. You can surf over
to their website to check out their structure and how they provide their
services.

Why is it important for these guys to get the help they need? A lot of the
people behind these projects don't really get the web. They vaguely know
it's an ideal publishing avenue but that's about it. All of us here know
that it's not just "we build it and they'll come". Plus, the fact is that a
number of these sites contribute to the proliferation of non-compliant and
badly conceptualized websites littering the cyberscape. Heck, even the
default theme that ships with Mambo, an OpenSource WEB CMS, uses tables to
shoehorn the layout.

Obviously, if you have no love for OpenSource, this email wouldn't matter to
you. What I'm trying to do at this point is to gather a group of people who
do support OpenSource and are willing to contribute some time and resources
towards this. No, I don't expect that any of us will be getting paid for
this. But I guess if you're into this kinda thing, the philantrophical
streak already runs in your blood. Plus there's that little thing called
exposure if your particular project hits the limelight.

I've made an initial shortlist of services that we can provide:

1) Help them understand the difference between a publicity and developer
site for their project. Most of them mix the two up and in a lot of cases
this is not the right tack to take.
2) Help them conceptualize a presentable and standards-compliant website.
3) If possible, set them up with (or help them to do so) a simple CMS such
that they can do self updates (no, I don't feel that we should be the one
doing all the data entry especially when we do not even understand the
content and actual scope of the project itself)

I'm fine with discussing this off-list if a high volume of folks (or even a
single moderator) here find it non-relevant to them.

Oh, BTW, the name's Wong. I'm thus far more a lurker than anything else. I'm
a web developer based in Malaysia, which I do while trying to be a
small-time local OpenSource evangelist as well. 

Some of the sites to show you what I'm talking about:
1) http://www.slackware.org (table-based)
2) http://www.kanotix.org/ (frames on something as simple as this?!?!?)
3) http://fluxbox.org/version-0.9.php (ah, looks like some thought went into
the design itself, but the inner workings are still very old school)

Interested parties can either email me privately or here (while the
objections have not started).

Thanks!
Wong

Note: A copy of this email is being sent to the Web Design List as well.



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[WSG] CSS Box

[Studentul]

Hello,

I am trying to build a small box in CSS, but I am having a little problem.

Please look at: http://www.freewebs.com/mofotest/ 

My problem is to align vertical "Monitor LCD AG Neovo F417B 17". The
text in the grey box may have 2 ore more line... so I can't use margin.

Kindest Regards,
    Razvan Pop