Re: [WSG] Dutch guild of front-end developers in the making

[James Jeffery]

Interesting, although i didnt read a word of it, its all in dutch, but i got
the english summary.

As for certification, its useless as one pointed out, technologys on the
internet change all the time. Im at uni at the moment doing web development,
and in the HTML side of things, they still teach old school methods. Lukily
for me i know alot on the web standards side of things.

Fair play to them though, thumbs up, wish them well.

On 7/3/07, Lucien Stals <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I just started doing a Cert IV in Assessment and Training so that I'd be a
qualified trainer (not necessarily for the web), and I was surprised to find
out that the training packages for  qualifications are normally only
reviewed every 5 years. In many industries that would be okay. But on the
web?

I was also surprised to find some training packages for IT related
certificates (here in Australia ) which included a unit on writing a web
documents which claimed DHTML was a valid markup language.

The unit "(ICAB4135A) Create a simple mark up language document to
specification" says...
"Mark-up language  May include but are not limited to HTML, DHTML, XHTML,
SGML, VRML, XML. "

That unit is part of a Cert IV in IT (Websites).

Lucien.



Lucien Stals
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2007 at  3:53 PM, "Matthew Pennell" <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On 03/07/07, Sander Aarts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>  Yesterday, PPK announced that he and others are busy setting up a
Dutch
>> guild of Front- end Developers:
>> http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2007/07/gilde_van_front.html(only
>> in Dutch for now).
>>
>> The general idea is to professionalize front- end development,
emphesize
>> the fact that it is in fact a branche of its own and to set up a
>> certification system by which customers can easily distinguish between
>> modern developers, using web standards, and old skool table hackers.
>>
>
> Interesting. Whenever the subject has arisen before, it's usually been
felt
> that because the pace of change is so rapid in web development,
> certification is practically useless -  you might have qualified for a
> certificate a year ago, but that's no guarantee that you're still using
the
> most up- to- date techniques.

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Re: [WSG] Dutch guild of front-end developers in the making

[Rob Crowther]

James Jeffery wrote:
> Interesting, although i didnt read a word of it, its all in dutch, but i
> got the english summary.
> 
I tried translating it with Babelfish, the result was somewhat
incoherent but more intelligible (to me) than Dutch.

> As for certification, its useless as one pointed out,

They're not useless, though their main benefit is demonstrating a level
of technical competency to non-technical people - eg. managers, HR
departments and recruiters, rather than as a direct benefit to the
certificate holder.

> technologys on the internet change all the time.

This is simply not true, HTML 4.01 was published in December 1999.  CSS
2.0 was published in May 1998, neither of these are obsolete.  Even in
terms of practical implementations, IE6 was launched in 2001 and not
superseded until late last year.  What changes more frequently is the
more nebulous concept of 'best practice' rather than the standards
themselves, and those, I think, change more gradually over time rather
than the epochal pattern of browser/standards release cycles.

Even if a certificate were only valid for one year it would still have
some long term value - someone with a two year old certification ought
to have more value in a potential employer's eyes than someone who's
never gained any certification at all.

Perhaps the certification process itself should include some portion of
'keeping up' - ie. reading mailing lists and blogs, attending
conferences etc. - similar to professional development programmes that
already exist in management and other parts of IT?

Rob


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[WSG] Robot meta tags

[Joyce Evans]

I'm new to this group, so if this discussion has occurred in the past, I'm
not aware of it.

 

Is it important to include the following as part of the meta tags on web
pages?

 



 

Joyce



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Re: [WSG] Robot meta tags

[Brian Cummiskey]

Joyce Evans wrote:


Is it important to include the following as part of the meta tags on 
web pages?





No.   Meta tags are all but depreciated at this point.  he only common 
one still being used is the langauge/charset type.


FEW search engines are still "meta engines", and none of the big 3 are.

Furthermore, index,follow is the Default behavior, thus it doesn't need 
to be specified.


If you want to keep bots out of indexing items, look into adding a 
robots.txt file to your server root.   A quick search for robots.txt 
will yield you more than enough info.



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Re: [WSG] Robot meta tags

[Lea de Groot]

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:45:26 -0500, Joyce Evans wrote:
> Is it important to include the following as part of the meta tags on 
> web pages?
>  
> 

No.
'index' and 'follow' are the default values for the robots meta - any 
robot will assume these values if there is no robots meta element on 
the page.
You only need to include them if you are resetting them to eg 'noindex' 
or 'nofollow', etc.

Of course, it isn't *wrong* to include them, just redundant.

warmly,
Lea
-- 
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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RE: [WSG] Footer Problem IE5.x

[Joyce Evans]

Regarding "Why beat your head against the wall of buggy browsers when the 
manufacturer themselves supplies a workaround?"

I want to know more about conditional comments.  Is this a good resource?
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512.aspx#Conditional_Statement
s


Joyce

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Gleitzman
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 3:28 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Footer Problem IE5.x


On 2 Jul 2007, at 6:09 PM, Sarah Peeke (XERT) wrote:

> I guess I was hoping to fix the problem(s), rather than just rely on a
> hack. Other suggestions appreciated.

Fair enough, but I'd say your chances of getting the one set of css 
rules to display correctly in all browsers are pretty slim - especially 
if you want to include browsers as flawed as Exploder 5.x. Even MS 
themselves accept how hard this is - hence CCs.

I routinely serve as many as three alternative stylesheets vis CCs for 
different versions of IE. They only need to contain a handful of rules 
necessary to override the correct values served to compliant browsers.

Whether you consider CCs a hack is, I guess, subjective. But your code 
will validate, and they're easy to remove with a global search and 
replace if and when the time comes that you don't need them any more.

Why beat your head against the wall of buggy browsers when the 
manufacturer themselves supplies a workaround?

N
___
omnivision. websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/



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[WSG] Images not showing on the MAC (JavaScript issue)

[Taco Fleur]

Hi all,

I hope its not off-topic, it is after all to do with user friendliness.

I'm using some JavaScript to hide any images that have not loaded properly
or are missing. I don't like seeing the red crosses on a site, it looks
unprofessional.

http://www.sellmystuff.com.au/buystuff/generalstuff/parent-category.cfm?cate
goryIdentity=1

The problem is that on the MAC it removes all images like they have not
loaded properly. It only removes the ones within the HTML, not those placed
by CSS.

Following is the code used to check, obviously isLoadedImage always seems to
return false on the MAC for some reason. Would anyone know why?

function isLoadedImage( obj ) {
 if (!obj.complete) {
  return false;
 }
 if ( typeof obj.naturalWidth != "undefined" && obj.naturalWidth == 0 ) {
  return false;
 }

return true;
}

function checkImage() {
 for ( var i = 0; i < document.images.length; i++ ) {
  if ( !isLoadedImage( document.images[ i ] ) ) {
   document.images[ i ].style.visibility = "hidden";
  }
 }
};
myWindow.doAddOnloadListener( checkImage );

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards, Taco Fleur




clickfindT
www.clickfind.com.au the new Australian search engine for businesses,
products and services . 




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Re: [WSG] Robot meta tags

[Bruce Morrison]

On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 19:04 -0400, Brian Cummiskey wrote:
> Joyce Evans wrote:
> >
> > Is it important to include the following as part of the meta tags on 
> > web pages?
> >
> > 
> 
> No.   Meta tags are all but depreciated at this point.  he only common 
> one still being used is the langauge/charset type.

Most possibly getting off topic but   WILL be used by google for the description
under the title in search results.

Cheers
Bruce

-- 
Bruce Morrison
Solution Architect

designIT Pty Ltd
Website Content Management Specialists



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Re: [WSG] Dutch guild of front-end developers in the making

[Sander Aarts]

James Jeffery schreef:
As for certification, its useless as one pointed out, technologys on 
the internet change all the time.

Lukily for me i know alot on the web standards side of things.


Well, that knowledge is useless too then as web technology changes all 
the time.


Even though things change more rapidly in web development than in other 
technology branches, that doesn't necessarily mean that certification is 
useless. As Rob Crowther already pointed out web *standards* don't 
really change that often. And even best practices evolve in such a pase 
(certainly not every month) that, for front-end development, a 
certificate with a validity of 1 or 2 years (depending on the level) can 
give quite an accurate indication of the developer's skills.


Besides that, I want to know where I stand and what areas I need to 
improve that perhaps I'm not aware of.


cheers,
Sander



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[WSG] Developing Accessible Applications With Flash, Asp and visual Basic

[Marvin Hunkin]

Hi.
now just wondering, can i develop flash web applications, using jaws, and 
say using a programming interface say like microsoft visual studio, asp, or 
the flash development kit, and like say developing web applications, with a 
flash interface, and say doing animations, lines, arrows, buttons, and a 
flash movie, inserting, audio and video.
how accessible with jaws?
if you could let me, know, send asap.
cheers Marvin. 




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[WSG] Re: video

[Michael MD]

what are good choices for for formats for compressed video?

I'm looking for something where a reasonable proportion of  people are 
likely to already have a suitable player...
without having to download extra plugins or other software ... is anything 
emerging as a standard yet ?


- or will I be forced to reduce the quality A LOT to make an animated gif! -








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RE: [WSG] Re: video

[Paul Bennett]

Flash: (google video, youtube, yahoo video, revver, dailymotion, etc etc)
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_1/
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_2/
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_3/ 

Yes, you can get (pretty) good quality flash video at a low file size

Quicktime gives good quality (at a larger file size) but just isn't as 
ubiquitous as flash...

My 2c anyway


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Re: [WSG] Re: video

[Karl Lurman]

Flash all the way im afraid.
2c
Karl

On 7/4/07, Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Flash: (google video, youtube, yahoo video, revver, dailymotion, etc etc)
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_1/
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_2/
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_3/

Yes, you can get (pretty) good quality flash video at a low file size

Quicktime gives good quality (at a larger file size) but just isn't as 
ubiquitous as flash...

My 2c anyway


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Re: [WSG] Re: video

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Karl Lurman wrote:

Flash all the way im afraid.
2c
Karl

On 7/4/07, Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Flash: (google video, youtube, yahoo video, revver, dailymotion, etc etc)
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_1/
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_2/
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_3/

Yes, you can get (pretty) good quality flash video at a low file size

Quicktime gives good quality (at a larger file size) but just isn't as 
ubiquitous as flash...


My 2c anyway


You could also look at OGG/Theora and MPEG4...
see


and there are some filesize comparisons at


Marghanita
--
Marghanita da Cruz
http://www.ramin.com.au/linux
Phone: 0414 869202


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RE: [WSG] Footer Problem IE5.x

[Thierry Koblentz]

> On Behalf Of Joyce Evans
> I want to know more about conditional comments.  Is this a good
> resource?
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-
> us/library/ms537512.aspx#Conditional_Statement

Yes it is. You can also check this article I wrote: 
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/conditional_comments.asp

HTH,
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com





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[WSG] Perth - AWIA Port80 Mini Talks Tonight (4th Jul 2007)

[Gary Barber]

Australia Web Industry Association (Perth) Meeting

When: Wednesday, July 4, 2007. 6:00 PM
Where: The Velvet lounge, Corner of Walcott St and Beaufort St, Mt 
Lawley, WA


Cost: FREE

Meet your fellow web professionals. There’s free food, a bar and each 
month we host two, ten minute talks from members on their area of 
expertise. This month’s speakers are:


David Fono - “Alternate Reality” games
Gary Barber - “PDF is not your friend - Accessibility and Optimisation”.

Maybe of interest to Web Standards people

--
Gary Barber
Blog - http:/manwithnoblog.com




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Re: [WSG] Robot meta tags

[Matthew Pennell]

On 04/07/07, Brian Cummiskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



No.   Meta tags are all but depreciated at this point.



That's a bold - and largely incorrect - statement. Perhaps the META tags
that were covered in most "Beginning HTML" type books a few years ago aren't
needed any more (although description is still used by Google, content-type
can be useful, robots is needed to refuse entry to bots - it's really only
the keywords meta tag that is pointless now), but meta tags are still needed
for applying stuff like Dublin Core metadata.

--




Matthew Pennell //
m: 07904 432123 //
www.thewatchmakerproject.com


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Re: [WSG] Robot meta tags

[James Jeffery]

No all meta tags are depreciated, and i cant see them being either, google
still uses the meta="description" , as also bruce has pointed out.

Regards

On 7/4/07, Bruce Morrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 19:04 -0400, Brian Cummiskey wrote:
> Joyce Evans wrote:
> >
> > Is it important to include the following as part of the meta tags on
> > web pages?
> >
> > 
>
> No.   Meta tags are all but depreciated at this point.  he only common
> one still being used is the langauge/charset type.

Most possibly getting off topic but   WILL be used by google for the description
under the title in search results.

Cheers
Bruce

--
Bruce Morrison
Solution Architect

designIT Pty Ltd
Website Content Management Specialists



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Re: [WSG] Dutch guild of front-end developers in the making

[James Jeffery]

Okay Okay, i seemed to have confused a few, i was unable
to read the article so i didn't get the full picture due to the
language its written in.

And yes, HTML, CSS ect don't change to much, i was talking
more about new browsers and their problems (mainly IE), new
stuff like Microformats, which will no doubt see changes because
its still newish. Alot of people are turning to Web Standards, and
alot of people are inovationg new ideas, like Microformats for example
and over the next few years i can see alot of things happening.

I self taught myself, because my college at the time wasn't aware
that HTML was for content and CSS was for presentation, again
the college and the uni were both teaching old school methods,
but the difference is they have recognized qualifications, are the
qualifications
offered by that will offer able to mach the recognition of the uni's?

Regards

On 7/4/07, Sander Aarts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



James Jeffery schreef:
> As for certification, its useless as one pointed out, technologys on
> the internet change all the time.
> Lukily for me i know alot on the web standards side of things.

Well, that knowledge is useless too then as web technology changes all
the time.

Even though things change more rapidly in web development than in other
technology branches, that doesn't necessarily mean that certification is
useless. As Rob Crowther already pointed out web *standards* don't
really change that often. And even best practices evolve in such a pase
(certainly not every month) that, for front-end development, a
certificate with a validity of 1 or 2 years (depending on the level) can
give quite an accurate indication of the developer's skills.

Besides that, I want to know where I stand and what areas I need to
improve that perhaps I'm not aware of.

cheers,
Sander



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