Re: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?
On 29 October 2010 16:56, David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk wrote: On 28 Oct 2010, at 17:31, Foskett, Mike wrote: Since querying here I've had difficulty validating code with a class on the html element. Am I incorrect in the belief that it should actually be valid? The class http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#adef-class attribute, in the latest, stable version of HTML is available for All elementshttp://www.w3.org/TR/html4/index/elements.htmlbut BASE http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/links.html#edef-BASE, BASEFONThttp://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/graphics.html#edef-BASEFONT, HEAD http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#edef-HEAD, HTMLhttp://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#edef-HTML, META http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#edef-META, PARAMhttp://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#edef-PARAM, SCRIPT http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/scripts.html#edef-SCRIPT, STYLE http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/styles.html#edef-STYLE, TITLEhttp://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#edef-TITLE http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#edef-TITLESource: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/index/attributes.html That isn't necessarily correct. or at least, that is only required for document validation. Browsers support expando elements (aka, you can bind properties into the DOM object), so adding a class attribute is valid... and a browser will CSS-render according to the class attribute, as the spec doesn't say that it shouldn't if being manipulated by the scripting engine. So technically speaking, adding a class to the html element, is perfectly valid. ... whether expando elements need to be spec-validated, after the document has already been parsed, would be a separate discussion... cheers, Mathew Robertson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?
On 29 October 2010 16:21, David Hucklesby huckle...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/28/10 5:25 PM, Mathew Robertson wrote: I'll stick my neck out and say... dont do it for the CSS bit... specifically, you should be asking - What is the point of adding a specific class to html/body for a specific browser? In particular, using this technique discourages the whole graceful degradation thing. And it adds complexity to the markup too, which doesn't necessarily help your brain. Its an idea which can be used, but that doesn't mean all ideas are good ideas... Okay. A specific scenario: I use RGBa backgrounds quite a lot. IE prior to v.9 supports RGBa backgrounds via its gradient filter. How, without using conditional comments at all, do I target IE 6,7, and 8, bearing in mind that the solid background color I give very old browsers must be removed from these versions of IE? IMHO, adding classes to the HTML tag this way is far cleaner than using a number of IE-only style sheets, and the complexity all those conditional comments add to the markup as well... Hi David, I didn't actually say dont use conditional comments... I just said dont do it for the html or body tags. The reasoning being to keep the IE-specific logic all in one place (aka: target the element using existing selectors), rather than putting some logic in your main document (ie: adding a class) and some in one or more external files. Whether using distinct stylesheets for each browser or not, is an separate albeit related, discussion on how separation of logic/code/ideas works for a given person. regards, Mathew Robertson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?
On 29 Oct 2010, at 09:49, Mathew Robertson wrote: Browsers support expando elements (aka, you can bind properties into the DOM object), so adding a class attribute is valid Valid has a specific technical meaning when dealing with SGML and XML. What browsers supports isn't it. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?
On 29 October 2010 20:01, David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk wrote: On 29 Oct 2010, at 09:49, Mathew Robertson wrote: Browsers support expando elements (aka, you can bind properties into the DOM object), so adding a class attribute is valid Valid has a specific technical meaning when dealing with SGML and XML. What browsers supports isn't it. Once it is parsed into a DOM, it isn't SGML or XML. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?
Thanks David,
My impression that it's valid to add a class to the html element was true.
I know that you should not actually apply a style to it though.
Hi Kurtis,
I think that it's positively Byzantine.
Why do you need or want to do this?
I manage, create and update hundreds of unique content pages.
I must assume that every developer uses Firefox / Firebug combination to build
/ hack / test pages.
Having separate overriding style sheets is a nightmare for maintenance.
A single sheet, or even better in the document head, improves efficiency.
Hi Thierry,
how far people are willing to go to have their styles sheets validate.
Couldn't agree more.
goes against the separation of the three layers
No it doesn't, it's purely presentational.
No better or worse than li class=last
What's wrong with the *property and _property hack?
Nothing at all in my eyes.
I prefer this technique compared to the more correct * html and *+html.
And your argument is sound.
Though increased specificity is the whole point.
David,
How, without using conditional comments at all, do I target IE 6,7, and 8
From the example:
bg {background: #fff}
.IE6 bg,
.IE7 bg { filter: progid: etc...}
.IE8 bg { -ms-filter: progid: etc}
Though I personally for what you're asking I'd do it in one style rule like
this:
.gradientBg {
background:#f1f0f3;
background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, left top, left bottom,
color-stop(0, #f8f7fa), color-stop(1, #cfcbd8));
background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(rgba(248,247,250, 1) 0%,
rgba(207,203,216, 1) 100%);
filter:
progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.gradient(startColorstr=#FFf8f7fa,
endColorstr=#FFcfcbd8);
-ms-filter:
progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.gradient(startColorstr=#FFf8f7fa,
endColorstr=#FFcfcbd8));
}
Covers everything you ask plus Firefox, Safari and IE8+.
Mathew,
What is the point of adding a specific class to html/body for a specific
browser?
Purely to tweak presentation for IE6 mostly but yesterday I had to tweak IEv8.
Try and tweak IE8 specifically without the suggested method.
Example:
a.closeLink {display:block; font:bold large/1 arial,sans-serif;
padding:0 0.23em; position:absolute; right:4px; text-decoration:none; top:4px;}
.IE8 a.closeLink {top:14px; right:-4px}
Because the div has a drop shadow, via -ms-filter in IEv8. The placement of the
close link was messed up.
Its an idea which can be used, but that doesn't mean all ideas are good ideas.
Very true hence the posting.
Grant,
Would you need to style every element in the document
Certainly not, just the styles which require tweaking
Regards
Mike Foskett
http://websemantics.co.uk/
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Re: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?
why did I get this set of 5 replies to this thread 12 times? did any body else get it 12 times, too? cs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?
On 10/29/10 2:13 AM, Foskett, Mike wrote:
[...]
David,
How, without using conditional comments at all, do I target IE 6,7,
and 8
From the example:
bg {background: #fff}
.IE6 bg,
.IE7 bg { filter: progid: etc...}
.IE8 bg { -ms-filter: progid: etc}
Precisely. I was asking how I'd be able to target all three *without*
any CCs.
Though I personally for what you're asking I'd do it in one style
rule like this:
.gradientBg {
background:#f1f0f3;
background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, left top, left bottom,
color-stop(0, #f8f7fa), color-stop(1, #cfcbd8));
background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(rgba(248,247,250, 1) 0%,
rgba(207,203,216, 1) 100%);
filter:
progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.gradient(startColorstr=#FFf8f7fa,
endColorstr=#FFcfcbd8);
-ms-filter:
progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.gradient(startColorstr=#FFf8f7fa,
endColorstr=#FFcfcbd8));
}
Covers everything you ask plus Firefox, Safari and IE8+.
Sorry, mate. That won't work. All IEs will get the solid background with
the filter image on top. Not what you'd want at all... :(
(FWIW - I actually tried this.)
And what about my browser of choice, Opera. Not popular in the US or UK,
I know, but has an equal presence with Safari and Chrome in Europe, an
even bigger presence in other parts of the world, and a major browser on
small devices like phones. RGBa() has my money...
Cordially,
David
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RE: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?
goes against the separation of the three layers No it doesn't, it's purely presentational. No better or worse than li class=last imho, CCs have nothing to do with the presentational layer, they are part of the structural layer and they are junk markup if you ask me :) -- Regards, Thierry www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?
On 10/29/10 12:05 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: goes against the separation of the three layers No it doesn't, it's purely presentational. No better or worse thanli class=last imho, CCs have nothing to do with the presentational layer, they are part of the structural layer and they are junk markup if you ask me :) In principle, I entirely agree. But this does not help me target IE6, IE7, and IE8, each of which has its own needs for which I know no other work-around. Yes, I can and do use underscore and star filters. But IE8??? Perhaps you know of a browser-safe filter for IE8? My source for CSS filters is this Wikipedia page... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSS_filters Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?
On 29.10.2010 23:33, David Hucklesby wrote: Perhaps you know of a browser-safe filter for IE8? Don't know about safe, but maybe you can find what you need here... http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/styles/target-browser.css regards Georg *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
