RE: [WSG] 8 invites for Google Wave [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
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Re: [WSG] Is pressing Enter to submit (or not) on forms an accessability issue? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
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Re: [WSG] my site
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Re: [WSG] my site
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Re: [WSG] accessibility: government
In the USA, federal government web sites, and those web sites were federal tax dollars are involved, are subject to accessibility requirements of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended. This is more commonly known as Section 508 ---> http://www.section508.gov/ Many state governments and public educational institutions have incorporated the federal Section 508 requirements within their state laws for state supported sites. There is no direct requirement for non-federal government commercial and private web sites to follow Section 508. However, the recent target.com court case out of California used that state's laws and the federal Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA - http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/ada.html) as the basis for an accessibility lawsuit later settled out of court. I cannot help you with state- or local-level web accessibility laws. Dennis Luc Sent by: li...@webstandardsgroup.org 08/26/2009 11:45 AM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject [WSG] accessibility: government Good afternoon list, Does anybody know if their exists a list of what is required in terms of accessibility features for each country (governments)? -- Regards, Luc _ http://www.dzinelabs.com Using the best e-mail client: The Bat! version 4.2.6 with Windows XP (build 2600), version 5.1 Service Pack 3 and using the best browser: Opera. "Xerox never comes up with anything original." *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] How Important Is Web Accessibility?
For some of us, web accessibility is the law. More importantly, it's the right thing to do. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible websites
>> Dennis Lapcewich wrote: >> >>> While I agree with your general sentiment, I have to say I find >> >>> the assertion that all people aged 35-40 or more are "for all >> >>> intents and purposes [...] web disabled and [...] in immediate >> >>> need of web accessibility" questionable, to say the least. >> >>> I did not write the above. Please do not attribute to me another's comments in this accessibility thread. Please make sure you attribute correctly so as to avoid a misquote, at best, or disingenuous intent, at worst. My original comment concerned itself with a medical condition that in time, literally affects 100 percent of the human population. While onset of presbyopia is often described in the literature in the 40s and later, it is not unheard of to have symptoms beginning at age 35-40. A physical inability to focus on near objects is a legitimate disability. Bear in mind that addressing web accessibility is not as simple as reviewing server stats or talking with a few folks and deciding accordingly. Web accessibility is a human condition life change that will eventually affect everyone. Whatever technical approaches a web developer chooses to implement still remains with the developer, for now. Dennis Lapcewich US Forest Service Webmaster DRM Civil Rights POC Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA 360.891.5024 - Voice | 360.891.5045 - Fax dlapcew...@fs.fed.us "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." -- George Bernard Shaw ??where conflicting interests must be reconciled, the question will always be decided from the standpoint of the greatest good of the greatest number in the long run.? --Gifford Pinchot, Chief Forester, 1905 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible websites (was: accessible free web hosting account)
>> While I agree with your general sentiment, I have to say I find the >> assertion that all people aged 35-40 or more are "for all intents and >> purposes [...] web disabled and [...] in immediate need of web >> accessibility" questionable, to say the least. >> >> I'd be careful of overstating the case like this, as it can undermine >> the whole argument. The technical term is presbyopia, a physical inability of the lens of the eye to focus properly. Specifically, the lens loses its elasticity and ability to properly focus on near objects. It is a natural course of aging. Onset is often between the ages of 40-50, however, it has been seen at earlier ages. In web terms, one's ability to obtain information from computer monitors (web pages) will decrease as one ages, without correction. The normal method of correction is bifocal lenses, even trifocal lenses in some cases. As pointed out in another email in this thread, taking advantage of a browser's magnifications abilities through accessibility coding techniques is an excellent example to address this. It's rather difficult to overstate the issue when over the course of time, presbyopia is pretty much 100 percent universal within the human population. Dennis Lapcewich US Forest Service Webmaster DRM Civil Rights POC Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA 360.891.5024 - Voice | 360.891.5045 - Fax dlapcew...@fs.fed.us "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." -- George Bernard Shaw ??where conflicting interests must be reconciled, the question will always be decided from the standpoint of the greatest good of the greatest number in the long run.? --Gifford Pinchot, Chief Forester, 1905 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[Spam] :RE: [WSG] Accessible websites (was: accessible free web hosting account)
If you are unsure that web accessibility should play a role, take this test. In a group of people have everyone stand up. Those who are unable to stand may remain seated. Now pose these three requests, in order: 1) If you are wear glasses, contacts and/or have had corrective eye surgery, please sit down. 2) Of those who remain standing, if you know for a fact you are color-blind, please sit down. 3) Of those who now remain standing, everyone aged 35-40 or more, please sit down. Those who are left standing have little to no "immediate" need for web accessibility, but they will in time. Of those who sat down, while many (most?) may not meet a legal definition as being "disabled," for all intents and purposes they are web disabled and are in immediate need of web accessibility. I average 80 percent or more end up sitting down every time I perform this test. The short three question test is not scientific. It is not "technically" accurate. But as an illustrative tool to raise accessibility awareness, it is 100 percent effective. Here in the USA, 20 percent of the population is disabled. That's sixty million people. Many of these disabilities have no connection with web accessibility. If you believe web accessibility provides no revenue return for a site owner, think again. Those who possess the wealth and spend the money are those who are sitting down. They are the ones that vote. It only took one blind person in California to bring down target.com, using a law not written to address web accessibility. Accessibility is not about the law. It's about doing the right thing. And when it comes to web accessibility, everyone at some point will be a disabled web user. Dennis Lapcewich US Forest Service Webmaster DRM Civil Rights POC Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA 360.891.5024 - Voice | 360.891.5045 - Fax dlapcew...@fs.fed.us "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." -- George Bernard Shaw ??where conflicting interests must be reconciled, the question will always be decided from the standpoint of the greatest good of the greatest number in the long run.? --Gifford Pinchot, Chief Forester, 1905 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Box model in IE7
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Re: [WSG] Was given a shocker this week ...
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RE: [WSG] add to favorites?
>> And for those of you with legal requirements to use or avoid
>> certain features?great! Use
>> them as you will! But don?t criticize others who take a more
>> practical approach and aren?t
>> enslaved by the legal requirements which chain you down.
I don't believe that legal requirements providing equity of access to all
are a problem at all. In fact just the opposite. It's a delightful
challenge to work with standards and legal requirements so that anyone is
able to access web content without being hindered by artificial barriers
and constraints. While my legal requirements are specific, other laws are
now being attributed to all web sites here in the US. The recent Target
case was a rather expensive $6 million learning exercise for that company
and may have established a precedent for all (commercial) web sites in the
US. We will have to wait and see. Apparently Virgin Blue in Australia is
embroiled in its own problems with respect to standards and accessibility.
That case could go either way and also establish a precedent for web
sites based in Australia.
In many ways the approach is similar to the old Fram oil commercials that
used to run on TV here in the States ("You can pay me now or pay me
later.") Designing and building according to standards is more
cost-effective in the long run. It's a best practice. It's good for
business.
And yes, as already demonstrated in this thread, one must be cognizant
that not every web professional is able to effectively exercise their
professional judgement when it comes to standards. Being able to pay the
rent and put food on the table is pretty strong incentive to just put
one's head down and do the job. At the same time the challenge for web
standards is being addressed where that unfair burden does not exist.
>> You just don?t realize it, but you?re enslaved more by your
>> ?company? than I will *ever* be.
I fail to understand that doing the right thing for the greatest good
could ever been seen as enslavement. Removing artificial barriers has
never been a form of enslavement in my book.
Dennis Lapcewich
US Forest Service Webmaster
Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA
360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax
dlapcew...@fs.fed.us
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing
it." -- George Bernard Shaw
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RE: [WSG] add to favorites?
While the concept may appear sound at first glance, it's based on a false, misleading and dishonest premise. The simple process of adding a "favorites link" on a web page is a proprietary function attributed to a single browser designed and developed by its manufacturer solely as marketing mechanism for said company. While on its face this may appear as a user benefit, the actual benefit is just for that single browser and its creator. Web developers sought to develop similar code so that the function would work in other browsers such as Firefox, Safari, Opera, etc., with no appreciable success. The mere name "favorites" should have been the clue since that term is also proprietary to that single browser. The actual industry term is bookmark. On the other hand, RSS feeds and links, "Subscribe to my RSS feed .." is an industry term using code accessible to all browsers. While created by a proprietary development group, its growth and development was more of an open standards approach. It eventually became an industry standard and it works in all browsers. Comparing "favorites" to "RSS" is unfair. It is comparing fish to bicycles, in more ways than one. The former smells in a relatively short period of time (and may contain chemicals not conducive to good health) while the latter will actually take you somewhere that you may choose to go, and you will feel better, too. Perhaps the analogy also applies to each function's pedigree as well. Standards are about equity of access. While some may be inclined to include a "favorites" link on a web page as a method to retain customers, bear in mind the function requires the user to support a proprietary process as well. Still, some may not care. However, for those of us with legal requirements to provide equity of access regardless of the method, use of a "favorites" link is an implied endorsement of a particular tool from a particular manufacturer, and that is a big no no. It is a denial of access to others who do not live in a company town, who do not live in a company house, who do not buy from the company store and who do not respond to every query with, "Yes, Sir! May I have another, Sir!" Dennis Lapcewich US Forest Service Webmaster Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA 360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax dlapcew...@fs.fed.us "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." -- George Bernard Shaw "Rick Faircloth" Sent by: li...@webstandardsgroup.org 03/25/2009 02:48 PM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To cc Subject RE: [WSG] add to favorites? Spend a little time on Google searching "internet marketing call to action bookmark this page" and you'll get a ton of info on the subject and you'll see many other examples that are similar to bookmarking, such as "Subscribe to my RSS feed..." even though there is a button right on the page already. These types of call-to-action are typically scattered throughout a page's content and are considered critical for successful marketing. Rick -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Maben Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:41 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] add to favorites? The argument continues to be shaky at best. "...compel a user..." in particular seems to display a fundamental misunderstanding of the realities of the web as a medium. I wonder if anyone knows of any user studies around this question: Is this an often-requested feature? When available, is it a much-used feature? I would guess that the answer is "no" in both cases - but by all means prove me wrong! Andrew On Mar 25, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Rick Faircloth wrote: > As was mentioned, it's a "call to action". Those who are familiar > with marketing will understand this concept. Also, it a user-friendly > way to compel a user to bookmark the site for future reference without > jumping through the hoops the browsers require. > > It's the same principle as putting "Call us today at 918-878-8787 for > more info." Instead of just putting "918-878-8787". > > Rick > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(
The ultimate failure is being offered to do a job initially, only to inform the customer their plan as written is unworkable from the get go. They find someone else to build it according to their plan, only to be approached months down the road to "fix something." It turns out that others in between tried and got nowhere. It comes full circle with what was built but would never work, and they want you to fix it, something you initially turned down. It can't be "fixed." Oh, yeah. It was all paid for with your tax dollars. Dennis Lapcewich US Forest Service Webmaster Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA 360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax dlapcew...@fs.fed.us "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." -- George Bernard Shaw *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] your best practise for CSS sprites for elements that have no height declared
Return Receipt Your Re: [WSG] your best practise for CSS sprites for elements document: that have no height declared wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:11/25/2008 10:56:38 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Who are the "Away on leave" Notices from?
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R: [WSG] Accessible and cross browser online slide system
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[WSG] Accessible and cross browser online slide system
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Re: [WSG] Accessibility Help
> Because it's HTML it's accessible.
Ah, no, not always.
If a web user has a cognitive disability, requiring them to perform a math
function (cognitive ability) may be another accessibility barrier itself.
YMMV, of course, depending upon the accessibility standard you wish to
achieve, or you may be required to achieve under the law.
Dennis Lapcewich
USDA Forest Service Webmaster
Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA
360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing
it." -- Anonymous
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/04/2008 08:29:30 PM:
> Hey,
>
> I saw a funny one once. A site had a really basic math problem. Like 4x2
> or something. Type in the answer and you submitted the form. Because
> it's HTML it's accessible.
>
> IceKat.
>
>
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Re: [WSG] Question about accessibility
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RE: [WSG] Acceptable autoplay of music
IMHO, an unacceptable autoplay web site: ** AutoPlay Loud Music Warning! Turn DOWN your speakers! ** http://www.daveclarkfive.com ** AutoPlay Loud Music Warning! Turn DOWN your speakers! ** Dennis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Acceptable autoplay of music
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R: [WSG] Re: ARIA
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RE: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash
Clarification. Section 508 and ADA are about as different as fishes and bicycles in intent, direction, scope and application. Section 508 is part of Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended. It only applies to US Government web sites and those sites built/maintained with (US) federal tax dollars. ADA is shorthand for the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, as amended. The prevailing point of view (until recently) is ADA has nothing to do with the web. However the Target.com court case and other (US) state thoughts are that ADA applies to all web sites within its jurisdiction. Time will tell on this point. Dennis Lapcewich USDA Forest Service Webmaster DRM Civil Rights POC R6 Web Accessibility Monitoring Program Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA 360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." -- Anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 07/07/2008 09:10:49 AM: > If ADA requires compliance with Section 508 (and I am not sure if it does), > then you would need to provide the content in an alternative, accessible > format regardless of how accessible the Flash version is. My reasoning is > thus: > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
R: [WSG] Javascript help with Reg Exp required please
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RE: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?
I figured that was what you meant. At the same time, it can be a dangerous assumption. For example, by the time an individual starts kicking at 40 years old, changes to the eyes occur. It's called presbyopia. It's a normal course of aging that literally affects 100 percent of people at some time in their lives as they age. Add into the mix that populations in general are aging, online populations include people of all ages and more and more "older folks." So for all intents and purposes, addressing the needs of "normal" users includes accessibility as a normal course of doing business for site owners and those who manage those web sites. The real problem is convincing the site owners that accessibility is good business and does provide tangible and intangible benefits. I guess it all boils down to whether you want to be dragged kicking in screaming into reality (and possibly pay the costs for such short-sightedness) or accept life for what it is and address accessibility for what we all will experience to some degree. I choose the latter, regardless of the fact it's required by law for me. Dennis > By that I meant someone who sees and interacts with the website in the most > common way. Seeing the page, viewing it with CSS & images on, using a mouse > etc. > > The user most people design their sites for. > > > > > I've got a search box and login area that I want to use a fieldset and > > legend on for accessibility but I don't want to show the legend to normal > > users. > > I'm sorry but what is a "normal" user? > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?
> > I've got a search box and login area that I want to use a fieldset and > legend on for accessibility but I don't want to show the legend to normal > users. I'm sorry but what is a "normal" user? Dennis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] linking multiple CSS files
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Re: [WSG] linking multiple CSS files
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RE: [WSG] Webstock recordings now available
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RE: [WSG] Webstock recordings now available
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Re: [WSG] accessible calendars? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Return Receipt Your Re: [WSG] accessible calendars? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:10/26/2007 12:17:39 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web Standards In Colleges and Universities
For colleges and universities based in the USA, you might want to look at
your respective state laws with respect web accessibility. Some states are
either incorporating the federal Section 508 accessibility law for all
state (supported) web sites, or are writing their own state web
accessibility laws to mirror the federal law.
In either case, if you attend a college or university in one of those
states, and that institution receives federal education funding, you might
want to politely bring it up with your web instructor. It would be rather
disingenuous for a web instructor to not teach according to web standards
and accessibility requirements, when their employer's web site (the college
or university web site) probably comes under the state law jurisdiction
with respect to W3C and accessibility standards as required by that state's
laws.
Dennis Lapcewich
USDA Forest Service Webmaster
Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA
360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing
it." -- Anonymous
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Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
> That's not what Target are saying. It's like a deaf person comes
> into their store and requests for assistance but no one speaks the
> sign language and he can't lip read. Is it discrimination not to
> have a sign-speaking person in your store just in case a deaf personcomes
in?
You analogy is incorrect. There are two concepts at work here, reasonable
accommodation and undue hardship. Although both concepts apply to actual
employment, they can serve as an educational basis for education and
enlightenment in this thread. You can read about them here --->
http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/accommodation.html
Requiring a sign speaker to be employed at every Target store would impose
an undue hardship upon the company, especially if statistics prove the
customer base of deaf customers requiring such assistance is effectively
nonexistent. There could very well be isolated cases, however, where it
would make sense, if not required. For example, if a Target store were
located near Gallaudet University (http://www.gallaudet.edu/x266.xml) it
would make sense to not only offer such services, but outreach to employ
deaf people for their deaf customers. Then again, creating and
maintaining a commercial web site effectively expands the potential
customer base to where it is quite reasonable to assume that a fair number
of potential customers are disabled and accommodation for their
disabilities not only makes sense, but is warranted.
On the other hand, Target is hard-pressed to prove that offering an
accessible web site is not reasonable accommodation for any of their
customers (including disabled customers), let alone pose an undue hardship
upon the company to maintain such a site. On the contrary, the tools,
techniques and expertise are readily available to do that no added cost as
part of regular site maintenance.
>From a purely technical perspective, IMHO, there is no defense that Target
(or any other large company) can make that they cannot
design/build/maintain an accessible web site where doing so would impose an
undue burden upon the company. (More importantly, under the concept of
undue burden, a large employer cannot claim cost as a mitigating factor
when it comes to making a reasonable accommodation. Target had earnings in
excess of US$59 billion in 2006.)
In fact, based on maturity of the web environment these days, any company
with a web site (including traditional "mom and pop" businesses), or
desiring one, would be hard pressed to make a claim of undue burden they
cannot have their web site built/maintained according to web standards,
including web accessibility as defined within those standards. If that
means a fair number of these web building companies (including one person
outfits) need to lift their game, or get out of the web business, then
that's the cost of doing business in a free marketplace.
> It doesn't sound right. Why should anyone be forced to do the right
> thing? You can't force anyone to be nice, generous and good-natured,
> you can only encourage that. Forcing people to do the right thing is
wrong.
Actually, you can, and it happens every day. Laws and regulations are
enacted all the time to impact upon and change personal behavior. It's
been that way throughout human history, first as families then expanding
into larger society as social norms and graces. And when that proved
insufficient as societies matured, governments and laws. You may claim a
person has the right to get drunk and act like an idiot (which they do),
but society deemed long ago that such egregious behavior in public is not
in society's best interest, nor that individual. More so, when the
behavior of that individual has a negative impact upon innocent people
(think drunk drivers).
It seems to me the real issue here is ignorance of life these days, with
respect to others who are perceived to be not like you. Just because
someone is "different" is too often a misguided and immature excuse to
exclude them from being treated equally and on their merits. We even have
words for the two most pronounced of these attitudes and behaviors, racism
and sexism. Individuals and companies will always take the easy way out
here, unless society at large says this is wrong.
Target is wrong.
Dennis Lapcewich
USDA Forest Service Webmaster
Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA
360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"P
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
> A private company should be able to do whatever the hell they like. > Suit is without merit and frivolous. What's next, suing vehicle > manufacturers for not providing a braille manual? I'm all for > accesability, but there is no reason it should be mandated, and lack > of is in no was discriminatory. Your analogy makes no sense, unless you think the state should be required to grant a drivers license to Ray Charles. OTOH, vehicle manufacturers are required to follow various safety regulations, the purpose of which is not so much to protect the idiot driver from his own incompetence and stupidity, but to protect innocent people from the occasional incompetent and stupid driver. The Target lawsuit is based on the Americans with Disabilities Act. According to Wikipedia, Title III of ADA says, "no individual may be discriminated against on the basis of disability with regards to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any person who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation. "Public accommodations" include most places of lodging (such as inns and hotels), recreation, transportation, education, and dining, along with stores, care providers, and places of public displays, among other things." In other words, it's illegal to discriminate against 20 percent of the US population (that's 60 million people) who have some sort of disability preventing them from enjoying public accommodation as anyone else. The lawsuit is arguing that public accommodation also applies to private (commercial) web sites, in addition to brick and mortar operations. If you truly are for accessibility, I'm sure you don't complain about the wheelchair ramps at crosswalks, the disability buttons at building entrances, and the extra-large private toilet blocks everywhere else, to name just a few. None of these features negatively impact the able-bodied person one bit. On the contrary, wheelchair ramps at crosswalks are seen to have hidden benefits for non-disabled people as well. All require considerable sums of money to install and maintain. Yet applying that same standard to web sites is not applicable here? Disability does not mean seclusion. In fact, disabled people wield considerable consumer buying power on their own, let alone influence others and their consumer spending. Or, put it this way. Considering Mac users account for a single digit percentage of all computers connected to the Internet, why even cater to them, let alone acknowledge their existence? If you believe that then here's hoping your life insurance is fully paid up. Mac influence with respect to the Internet, if not the greater world, is greatly disproportionate to their numbers, practically all of it for the better of all of us. Or do you firmly believe Zune beats iPod hands down? :) Web accessibility is not an addon issue. Web accessibility is not an additional expense. Web accessibility makes good business sense. Most importantly, web accessibility is the right thing to do. And the final twist is that everyone, *everyone,* who uses the Internet for whatever reason, will someday require accessible assistance when it comes to using the Internet. Dennis Lapcewich USDA Forest Service Webmaster Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA 360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." -- Anonymous *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Use of PDFs - Accessibility issues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 06/07/2007 08:04:01 AM: > Anyway, to get to the point, the customer has now been advised by a > marketing agency that the site should be reduced in size to approx 45 > key pages, and that the majority of content for things such as > conference room specification and rates, bedroom specs and rates, menus, > events, golf rates, membership rates etc, should be made available in > PDF form instead of the html pages that are on the current site. > I'm curious. Has the marketing agency ever been questioned as to *why* the web content should be converted from HTML to PDFs? What are the business reasons for the recommendation? What are the usability reasons for this recommendation? Is there an ultimate cost savings in creation and maintenance of the site by using PDFs for the majority of the content? Will there be an improvement in accessibility for web users by converting the content to PDFs? What about those web users who may not have a PDF reader installed on their computers? (Yes, this last question may seem nutty but how times have their been discussions about web users who deliberately disable Flash content for whatever reasons? The concept could be the same for folks who disable PDF access as well.) Has the marketing company offered cost savings in providing the web content as PDFs instead of HTML? Have they compared costs when it comes taking content and publishing it as accessible HTML vs creating an accessible content (say in Word or some other accessible document) and converting that to an accessible PDF for publication on the site? Will there be a consistency in making sure all the accessible PDFs are created using the exact same methods and procedures? It sounds to me that the marketing agency is pushing marketing hype for its own benefit and not creating and easy to use, and accessible content by following the KISS Principle. Dennis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Recommended screen size
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[WSG] handling accessible form
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RE: [WSG] equal height columns
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RE: [WSG] equal height columns
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RE: [WSG] equal height columns
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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE weirdness
Return Receipt Your Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE document: weirdness wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:03/21/2007 08:21:22 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] web accessibility-some thoughts
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 03/08/2007 04:48:46 AM: > Why aren't book, magazine, and newspaper publishers "required" to > produce an audio or braille version of everything they publish? Scanners have been available for years. More importantly the print medium is defined pretty much as private enterprise. One would be hard-pressed to impose a government accessibility standard on the private print industry, without running afoul with freedom of speech and freedom of expression issues. Besides, there is no inherent right of the individual to impose their accessibility issues within the private sector at this level; e.g., a private publishing firm could make a case of an "undue burden" if government attempted to force them to provide an accessible version of their products. Then there's that freedom of the press issue as well. (In blunt terms, there is no human right for a disabled person to read the latest accessible issue Sports Illustrated, Playboy or The Economist.) > Why aren't TV broadcasters and movie production companies "required" > to sub-title all of their broadcasts or films, or have an "off screen > reader" describing the scenes? Closed captioning allows persons with hearing disabilities to have access to television programming by displaying the audio portion of a television program as text on the television screen. Beginning in July 1993, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) required all analog television receivers with screens 13 inches or larger sold or manufactured in the United States to contain built-in decoder circuitry to display closed captioning. Beginning July 1, 2002, the FCC also required that digital television (DTV) receivers include closed captioning display capability. In 1996, Congress required video program distributors (cable operators, broadcasters, satellite distributors, and other multi-channel video programming distributors) to close caption their television programs. In 1997, the FCC set a transition schedule requiring distributors to provide an increasing amount of captioned programming. Source: http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/closedcaption.html By direct inference, movie producers in the US have to offer sub-titles if their movies are to make to the lucrative cable, satellite or on-air broadcast markets after a theatrical run. The sheer size of an industry in one country (in this case, the US) has a direct flow on effect with other countries (Although, I have great difficulty in finding a Region 1 US DVD of the movie "The Year My Voice Broke," at a decent price.). > Isn't saying one can't (shouldn't) use, for example, a popup window > on a web site because screen readers have trouble with them, like > telling Hollywood they can't (shouldn't) use certain special effects > because the "off screen reader" would have trouble explaining them to > a blind person? Government can easily impose accessibility standards to the airwaves because the electromagnetic spectrum is regulated by the government for its citizens. (WAG) The web is merely seen as an extension of this regulatory system. Federal government web sites in the US (and sites where federal tax dollars are involved) come under Section 508. Some states within the US are using Section 508 as an applicable standard (regardless of any federal funding) so Section 508 also applies. Recent court cases are attempting to apply the ADA law to private corporate web sites, claiming a public accommodation aspect. The New York State AG went so far as to use the ADA law as a basis for all private web sites compliance based in that state. Other enlightened countries have similar laws for similar reasons. When is comes to accessibility, the only disabled people are those who see it as a roadblock to their personal/corporate wealth, instead of seeing it as an opportunity to an expanding market. Twenty percent of the population of the USA meets the legal standard of "disabled" in one form or another. >From a simple ROI it makes economic sense to build in accessibility as a normal manner of doing business even if one's actual/potential client base is smaller than that 20 percent figure. That's because all too often, the cost of fighting what can be seen as an indefensible act will probably cost more than any perceived "added cost" of including accessibility from the start. Sorry, but the web isn't being singled out. It's just being added to the list already there. Dennis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re:[WSG] Usability issue with form help
Return Receipt Your Re:[WSG] Usability issue with form help document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:03/13/2006 08:09:41 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re:[WSG] how important are validation-programs?
Return Receipt Your Re:[WSG] how important are validation-programs? document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:03/06/2006 08:19:02 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Target sued over non-accessible site
Nic, Whoops! I missed that subtle distinction between the ADA and the Rehab Act. It's been a rough week. Slap me with a tag. In any case, I really would like to see a Section 508 (or ADA) case here in the States brought against a private company. The law itself needs a court challenge to test its validity and its viability with respect to electronic accessibility. Only then can we as web developers have any teeth with web standards, including accessibility. At the same time, a successful court case in favor of Section 508 (or ADA) would have repercussions much wider than many may realize. Can you imagine how some big web clients would react to find out their sites are not accessible after their high profile web developers assured them they were? We've already seen on this list a discussion about such a firm and their code on some big name sites. >> Cheers, I hope my long mail hasn't bored you to tears Oh, no way! It's refreshing to read here about the (potential) ramifications of the code we create. Any honest discussions of web standards needs to have regular doses of real-world effects of that code. Dennis "Nic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: To [EMAIL PROTECTED] rdsgroup.org cc Subject 02/09/2006 11:07 RE: [WSG] Target sued over AMnon-accessible site Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] roup.org Dennis, thanks for that link, an interesting opinion, and one that flies in the face of several court cases throughout the US (in particular Florida a few years ago) > The New York State Attorney General offered a legal opinion > that all web site originating within that state are subject > to Section 508 of the 1973 Rehabilitation Act I read that and I thought "huh? That can't be right". And reading the page on the link provided, it turns out that statement isn't quite right. The NY State AG said that "the Americans With Disabilities Act requires that private web sites be accessible to blind and visually impaired Internet users." Two things of note here: First, it is the ADA that is cited, NOT Section 508 of the US Vocational Rehabilitation Act. Section 508 is NOT applicable as the VRA applies soleley to US Federal agencies (and some organisations funded primarely with federal money, such as some universities), it always has, and always will. This is an important distinction, because the ADA does not mention anywhere in its text that it covers access to the internet (It was written pre-1990 and signed on July 26, 1992). Therefore, to state that the ADA applies also to companies doing business over the internet is a point that can be argued. In fact, while it seems logical that it *should* apply, that very argument has been used several times to lose court cases and make bad precedents (I don't have time to dig my archives for references, but if anyone's interested, I'll be pleased to do so). -- snip -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Target sued over non-accessible site
The New York State Attorney General offered a legal opinion that all web site originating within that state are subject to Section 508 of the 1973 Rehabilitation Act ( see http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/aug/aug19a_04.html ). Perhaps Target could very well spark similar suits across the country, especially since New York has successfully gone after two other private web sites. Dennis "Joseph R. B. Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To om> wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent by: cc [EMAIL PROTECTED] rdsgroup.org Subject Re: [WSG] Target sued over non-accessible site 02/09/2006 10:02 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] roup.org I'm calling all my blind friends right now and having them try to buys things on all sorts of sites in a conspiracy to make millions...just kidding...if only! Actually, as a US developer, this is a golden opportunity to go after all types of business to make their sites more accessible. The Target suit will undoubtedly send shivers down all of their spines. You want a business case for standards?--here it is. The only thing I don't understand is how on earth does a blind person pick out items that rely on a photograph (clothes etc)... Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com (609)335-3076 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ted Drake wrote: > This has the potential for making some positive improvements in the > commercial web sphere. Target is not blind to good design. Their new > prescription bottles have been hailed as one of the best designs of the last > decade (I think they were designed by a graduate student before Target > purchased them. But at least they recognized the value) > > Target has also commissioned top fashion and architecture designers to > develop affordable products (Michael Graves, Phiippe Stark, ...) > > Target may actually replace their site with an insightful, accessible > solution that is a model for other companies. > > Unfortunately, it takes a law suit to get corporations to make changes these > days. > > Ted > www.tdrake.net > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Marilyn Langfeld > Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 8:43 AM > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > Subject: [WSG] Target sued over non-accessible site > > I just read about this on another list. I thought others might be > interested. Target is a large, stylish but also discount, retailer in > the US. This should be a big case for web accessibility. > __ > > Blind Cal student sues Target. Suit charges retailer's Web site > cannot be used by the sightless. > "... What I hope is that Target and other online merchants will > realize how important it is to reach 1.3 million people in this > nation and the growing baby-boomer population who will also be losing > vision," said plaintiff Bruce Sexton Jr., 24, a blind third-year > student at UC Berkeley. > > Sexton, who is president of the California Association of Blind > Students, said making Target's Web site accessible to the blind would > also make it more navigable by those without vision problems > > > http://tinyurl.com/7ze7p > __ > > > Best regards, > > Marilyn Langfeld > Langfeldesigns > http://www.langfeldesigns.com > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ***
RE: [WSG] Site Critic
Return Receipt Your RE: [WSG] Site Critic document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:12/20/2005 12:28:39 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Whither IE for the Mac
Microsoft is officially halting distribution of Internet Explorer for the Mac at the end of next month. You'll probably want to archive a copy or two now for testing purposes, as well as to use with sites like the Proximus wireless "access" point at Javapolis last week that wouldn't let anybody in unless they were using IE. This had more than a little to do with the silence of my sites over the last week, as well as the paucity of reports from what was a quite interesting show for those who were there. Poor wireless access (the IE requirement was not the only problem) meant relatively few people were able to chat about or report from the show in real time. Putting such blatantly bad design on display in front of an audience of 2000 alpha geeks, almost every one of whom could probably explain in intimate detail exactly what Proximus did wrong, is not exactly the smartest viral marketing a company might do. In fact, that's an idea. Next year let's do a reverse keynote where the CEO and CTO of Proximus have to stand in front of the convention and listen to everyone in the audience tell them how to fix their broken system. It used to be that only internal users suffered through such brain damage and poor design; but with web apps everyone gets to see just how incompetent your team really is. Hmm, there's another idea. How about a mutual fund that makes investment decisions by analyzing a company's public web applications to figure out which companies hire the pointy-haired and which don't? Source: http://www.ibiblio.org/xml/ M$ Source: http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/internetexplorer/internetexplorer.aspx?pid=internetexplorer ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Site Critic
Return Receipt Your [WSG] Site Critic document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:12/16/2005 11:19:09 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Page Check: www.qm-consulting.co.uk/test/indextest
Return Receipt Your RE: [WSG] Page Check: www.qm-consulting.co.uk/test/indextest document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:11/04/2005 16:01:06 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Table grid to CSS Grid
No. You are mixing apples and bicycles. Tableless layout refers to the *page design.* Within a tableless *page* layout, the tabular content should be in a table. Dennis "Helmut Granda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] udios.com> To Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc rdsgroup.org Subject RE: [WSG] Table grid to CSS Grid 10/07/2005 11:08 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] roup.org Thanks for your feedback guys. So those who insist in creating table-less layouts can not be done so all the time, there are times when you HAVE to use tables or it wont work. Would that statement be correct? Is it even wroth it to fight to transform that kind of content into table-less? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Clearleft.com
Return Receipt Your RE: [WSG] Clearleft.com document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:09/20/2005 09:23:17 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fully compliant sample site
> One of the best fully compliant sites I have seen is: > http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbsite/ Ding! Ding! Ding! No DOC-TYPE in the main frame! :) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript
Return Receipt Your RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:08/31/2005 08:02:07 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript
Return Receipt Your RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:08/31/2005 08:02:21 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript
Return Receipt Your RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:08/31/2005 08:02:16 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Two questions: SEO document structure and font resizing
Whut was that? :)
"Edward Clarke"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: To
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
rdsgroup.org cc
Subject
07/20/2005 08:37 RE: [WSG] Two questions: SEO
AMdocument structure and font
resizing
Please respond to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
roup.org
I would like to assume that if anyone fell for that, someone would give
them a slap. ;)
Edward Clarke
ECommerce and Software Consultant
TN38 Consulting
http://blog.tn38.net
Creative Media Centre
17-19 Robertson Street
Hastings
East Sussex
TN34 1HL
United Kingdom
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Drake, Ted C.
Sent: 20 July 2005 16:20
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: RE: [WSG] Two questions: SEO document structure and font resizing
Wasn't the original css ( * html body {display;none;} ) meant as a joke to
hide all content from IE users?
I would simply hate to see someone plop that into their code and scratch
their head for the next hour trying to figure out what went wrong.
Ted
what does body{display:none;} do for SEO?" then the answer is not very
much.
Taking Googlebot and Slurp as examples, they don't parse CSS or script,
they want content within the HTML and that's it. Most hidden elements, i.e.
white text on white background or display: none; for example contain spammy
keywords which will be parsed and ignored as appropriate.
Rule: write grammatically correct and verbose content and them search
engines will lap it up, regardless of how you present it. That's my
experience anyway.
--
Eddie.
http://blog.tn38.net/
And what this mean for SEO
"body, html {display: none!important;}" ?
On 6/1/05, David Laakso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
body, html {display: none!important;}
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Longhorn & Avalon - seismic shift for web standards?
> My whole point is... why bother? Why spend the massive amount of > time (and therefore 'the peoples' money) making it work across all > these technologies when practically everyone who is using it has > access to IE. Given a choice, would you rather drive on a gravel road with a vehicle using square rims and steel wheels just because the manufacturer says so, or would you want your vehicle to have round rims with rubber tires as required by industry standards? :) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Prototype Framework
See http://openrico.org/home.page for applications based on it. "Bret Lester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] a.com> To Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc rdsgroup.org Subject RE: [WSG] Prototype Framework 07/14/2005 05:21 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] roup.org Has anyone checked out the JavaScript Prototype framework? http://prototype.conio.net/ Are there any good resources around that explain how it works? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] HR - Presentation or Structure?
Let us not forget that the web is a totally different medium that a printed
document.While actual web presentation and structure has its origins in
the printed world, we talking a different puppy with a different set of
human needs and interactions with the same content. The brain perceives
and interprets web page content differently than a printed document. For
example, content from a printed document is perceived via reflected light.
Web content itself is the light. (Oh, wait. Oh, never mind!) User can
scan, read and go back and forth with a printed document. They can do the
same thing with web content, to a point. The resulting physical and
psychological barriers bother many people. Is it any wonder that printed
content ported over to the web should be reduced by fifty percent, and
executive summaries with dot point items rule the roost?
We can debate and argue the finer points of coding, structure and
presentation all we want with respect to the web. Let's just not forget
many of us prefer a printed copy manual over any sort of on-line web
content any day of the week, for a variety of legitimate and inane reasons.
Our web customers make the same discerning decisions when it comes to the
web as well. Most are just not aware of the decisions they make with their
own web experiences.
Dennis Lapcewich
USDA Forest Service Webmaster
Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA
360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing
it." -- Anonymous
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
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Re: [WSG] Page structure - navigation
Ask your client ... "What is more important to you, getting a high ranking on a search engine so potential customers (who may or may not become a real customer) are able to find the site, or keeping the customers you already have by offering site navigation that is easy to locate and use?" Your question is not a web technical issue. It's a basic common sense business issue. Anyone who has passed Marketing 101 should know that keeping the customers you have, and keeping them happy is a Prime Directive. It's ten times harder to bring back a customer you had but lost, rather than find a new customer. Technically you can have both by absolute positioning. The actual navigation content sits at the bottom of the page, but CSS places it at the top of the rendered page. > I have a client who insists making me place the site's navigation at the > bottom of the page structure and than positioning it at the top via CSS. > His reasons of doing this is for search engine optimisation? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for "the rest of us"
I would love to be back in OZ and attend a SYD or MEL meeting but there is this pond in the way. :) Dennis Lapcewich USDA Forest Service Webmaster Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA 360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." -- Anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] edu.au Sent by: To [EMAIL PROTECTED] wsg@webstandardsgroup.org rdsgroup.org cc Subject 06/08/2005 09:29 RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for "the PMrest of us" Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] roup.org Hey don't forget us folks up in Darwin, we may be in Australia but we are still miles away! A webcast or streaming video would be great. Cheers *** Helen Rysavy Web Designer Teaching & Learning Development Group Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** "Adam Burmister (DSL AK)" To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: acom.co.nz>Subject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for "the rest of us" Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sgroup.org 09/06/2005 12:54 PM Please respond to wsg Somebody should webcast the live event. I'd love to attend in person, but I'm stuck in Auckland :( (Damn cold too)! Adam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kazuhito Kidachi Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 3:17 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for "the rest of us" 2005/6/9, Cole Kuryakin - x7m <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Man, oh man, would I love to attend some (pretty much all) of the meetings, > seminars and discussions being hosted/held by WSG - but they seem to all be > in Sydney. Me too. I'm in Japan and I can understand what you feel. So, if some resources like slides or short minutes are available for each meeting, all of "the rest of us" would be happy, I believe. BTW, now some people living in Tokyo are thinking about planning local meeting as a part of WSG. So my question is, how to setup such a local meeting. Is it only inputting time/place info on the WSG site? Australia, Philippines and Japan are located in almost same time zone. In future, we may share the same experience at the same time. It's just my thought. Kazuhito -- Kazuhito Kidachi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ***
