Re: [WSG] IMAGE(was Mystical belief etc)
IMO this site creates a bad image for their owners rather than a positive one, but personal opinions aside... I wonder if those who seem to like this type of site can answer a few questions to help us put this in perspective: What is the purpose for the existence of this site? What do the owners hope to achieve by investing in this site? How would you/the company behind the site measure success or failure of the site? best, Iva. designer wrote: Hi Kornel, 4 seconds and I go back to Mars. I saw the IMAGE, all hundreds kilobytes of it, but I don't know who they are and what they're selling. Well you would, if you looked at the site . . . Small and blurry text. I just skip over blocks of text because I can't read them. Clicking images doesn't zoom them. So why not use Opera? There is no content on this site! Speechless! I can't *find* it either: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:http://www.fosterandpartners.com/ Well your google is different to mine, clearly. Also, if you put foster and partners in my Google, it's number one hit. Obviously, we live in different worlds, in more ways than one :-) Regards, Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standards compliant site, clients wants to make updates themselves
Bert Doorn wrote: What other options are there, apart from complex, expensive CMS setups (or forgetting about standards)? Check out liveSTORYBOARD CMS (http://www.livestoryboard.com/): * standards based CMS and standards compliant output * completely separates look and feel, business logic and content * content is edited in a friendly wysiwyg (suitable for non technically savvy content contributors, but an XML tree view is also available) * content is schema validated * provides staging environments * no install or maintenance for your clients - the CMS is hosted * affordable best, Iva. begin:vcard fn:Iva Koberg n:Koberg;Iva org:liveSTORYBOARD Inc. adr:#5;;2 Clarence Place;San Francisco;CA;94107;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:415-615-9079 tel;fax:415-615-9036 tel;cell:415-823-5746 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.livestoryboard.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] [on-topic]wireframes - Prototype and IA not the Same
Chris Rizzo wrote: I think we're mixing up the conversation here. ik: Agree with Chris about mixing up the conversation and the differences between site flow diagrams and wireframes/storyboards. I suppose, as the original message was titled wireframes I assumed it was with regards to the latter. Yes, IA diagrams have a valuable role and purpose. The XHTML/CSS process I was advocating was for the next step of wireframing, followed by storyboarding, pretty much as the Grok suggests. But, yes, I would agree that a prototype can be done using CSS and should through iteration turn into the final site. ik: Exactly, and that's where the benefits of this approach kick in. My intended point was: after basic site diagrams, start with *no design* to get the content goals, site structure, navigation schemes nailed, add design (through XHTML/CSS addition and tweaks) gradually at the end of the planning in the storyboarding phase (ideally IA Diagrams Wireframes Storyboards Design Final Site). Example and more details: http://www.grokdotcom.com/wireframing.htm Careful visiting the link above you may learn way more than you expect to. :) ik: So true, GrokDotCom never ceases to inform/educate on subjects like wireframes, storyboards, effective copy, marketing, design, usability, etc. While not directly on the subject of web standards, it's a great read for anyone building web sites - http://www.grokdotcom.com/Volumes/archivefull.htm. The folks behind Grok are not new to web standards either, they use liveSTORYBOARD CMS to separate content, structure and presentation, update the site easily and publish to multiple formats (XHTML+CSS/HTML and text email/RSS/Atom). best, Iva. David R wrote: /Should lead to yet another tool, Visio or OmniGraffle, if so what recommended on the MAC OS side? What's stopping you from creating the prototype boxes in XHTML + CSS? It has the added advantage of meaning that once you've got your layout, you've also got your document structure. Just add the content and remove the border: 1px solid black; properties and you're done. Agree with David completely. Additional benefits of the XHTML/CSS prototype approach: - you end up with a fully navigable prototype that IMO is more effective in getting clients to understand and approve the deliverable - a functional prototype is also more effective in figuring out the most appropriate navigation schemes - if you are the ia and are working with a designer, you will provide clearer design input - once you are done, you don't have to throw away your work and move on to creating the site, the site is a living prototype, like David said - add content and CSS and you're done - prototypes are meant to change and be refined in iterations - it certainly is much easier, faster and reliable if you are using XHTML/CSS, preferably with a templating system or ideally a CMS (see http://www.livestoryboard.com/Tour/storyboarding-prototyping-for-the-web .html for example), which would update all navigation, links, etc. Take a look at this presentation - slide 44 specifically discusses the ideal process - First Things First: IA and CSS http://natek.typepad.com/blog/2004/07/web_visions_pre.html begin:vcard fn:Iva Koberg n:Koberg;Iva org:liveSTORYBOARD Inc. adr:#5;;2 Clarence Place;San Francisco;CA;94107;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:415-615-9079 tel;fax:415-615-9036 tel;cell:415-823-5746 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.livestoryboard.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] IE6- XML CSS white-space pre not honored
BBsound wrote:
IE6 doesn't honor the CSS
{white-space: pre;} as it does with HTML.
Would any body have a work around?
I have had similar unpredictable results with white space in CSS and IE
rendering. One work around is to pretty print (new lines and indent)
your source (X)HTML as opposed to removing white space in the source.
best,
Iva.
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fn:Iva Koberg
n:Koberg;Iva
org:liveSTORYBOARD Inc.
adr:#5;;2 Clarence Place;San Francisco;CA;94107;USA
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel;work:415-615-9079
tel;fax:415-615-9036
tel;cell:415-823-5746
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.livestoryboard.com
version:2.1
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Re: [WSG] What do you think about slicing images?
Hi, The only reason I can think of to slice images would be if the design calls for text wrapping around a curved image for whatever reason (though I haven't seen this done well and with clean markup). I too have been thinking about a good way to handle larger images and the other day I found this example at clugnut - absolutely love it and planning to try it soon: http://clagnut.com/sandbox/imagefades/ . best, Iva. On 2004-11-16 6:19 AM, Marilyn Langfeld wrote: I haven't seen any discussions about slicing images, with regards to web standards. I expect slicing is discouraged, since it is table-based. What do you do if you want to use a fairly large image in a design begin:vcard fn:Iva Koberg n:Koberg;Iva org:liveSTORYBOARD Inc. adr:#5;;2 Clarence Place ;San Francisco;CA;94107;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:415.615.9079 tel;fax:415.615.9036 tel;cell:415.823.5746 note:Keep your site fresh with ease and confidence! x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.livestoryboard.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Footer Solution
Hi Chris, I would probably try to find more semantically meaningful names for column1, column2 because the names as they are describe the visual presentation rather than the content or structure. An example may be content-region1 or feature1 - not great, but better [especially if you decide to rearrange the columns or make them rows later :) ] Perhaps something like main-content vs. sidebar would be suitable. As your template contains lorem ipsum text for columns of equal width, it's hard to tell if this makes sense for your site, my advice would be to just find names that describe the content better in the context of your site. Good luck, Iva. www.livestoryboard.com Chris Kennon wrote: Hi, Have I arrived at the semantically correct solution for placing the footer. Also before beginning the typographic positioning , does the core CSS have semantic credence. http://working.ckimedia.com/index.php ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** begin:vcard fn:Iva Koberg n:Koberg;Iva org:liveSTORYBOARD Inc. adr:#5;;2 Clarence Place ;San Francisco;CA;94107;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:415.615.9079 tel;fax:415.615.9036 tel;cell:415.823.5746 note:Keep your site fresh with ease and confidence! x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.livestoryboard.com version:2.1 end:vcard
