RE: [WSG] I wrecked my CSS ... : (
Jeff, I had a quick look and...
#content_bcrich is too wide. Reducing it to 570px stops the content from
wrapping under the LHS column. Although, you may want to reduce the
padding-left and add a little more to its width as the margin seems a bit
large for your design.
Add "clear : both;" to your box1 class. Always a good idea when you could
pontentially have floats under floats and want to force a "new line".
Get rid of your box2 class (for now). It's causing problems. The layout seems
to work fine without it.
I think that's all I changed (I didn't touch the html). Oh, and only tested in
IE6/FF.8 :P
Hopefully enough to get you back on track.
One other thing. I find it really useful to work with div borders ON while
building a page layout... Something as simple as:
div {border:1px solid red;}
Is enough to give you a good idea of what your page is doing.
Cheers,
____
James Silva
Web Production
Gruden Pty Ltd
Tel: 02 9299 9462
Fax: 02 9299 9463
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://www.gruden.com
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff
> Sent: Thursday, 3 June 2004 6:21 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [WSG] I wrecked my CSS ... : (
>
> I wrecked my CSS somehow... : (
>
> http://www.bcrich.com/2004/test/guitars.asp
>
> http://www.bcrich.com/2004/test/css/sub.css
> http://www.bcrich.com/2004/test/css/menu.css
>
> and have spent the last 3 hours getting absolutely nowhere.
>
> Jeff
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jeff
>
> http://www.patandjeff.com
> **
> ***
>
> **
> ***
> Visit http://www.websites4199.com for an alternative to high
> development prices!
>
> Visit http://www.milliondollarsites.net if you just got to
> spend the big bucks and brag about it.
>
>
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
*
RE: [WSG] IE mystery whitespace
Miles,
Replace your existing #content selector with the following:
#content {
margin-left: 0;
float : left;
padding: 0;
border: 1px dashed #090;
}
Slightly different way of achieving the result you're after.
Cheers,
James Silva
Web Production
Gruden Pty Ltd
Tel: 02 9299 9462
Fax: 02 9299 9463
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://www.gruden.com
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miles Tillinger
> Sent: Friday, 30 April 2004 5:13 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [WSG] IE mystery whitespace
>
> I thought i'd fixed it, however I can't work out how to get
> the -3px going in IE. The 3px jog is now effecting the whole
> paragraph instead of just the lines adjacent to the floated div.
>
> Here is a demonstration of the 3px job happening. The indent
> stops as soon as the left float ends.
>
> HTML http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test2.html
> CSS http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname2.css
>
> I've added the IE/Win specific code from
> positioniseverything's article:
>
> HTML http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test.html
> CSS http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname.css
> /* Hide from IE5-mac. Only IE-win sees this. \*/
>
> * html #sidebar-a {
> margin-right: 10px;
> }
>
> * html p {
> height: 1%;
> margin-left: 0;
> }
>
> /* End hide from IE5/mac */
>
>
> but I can't seem to get the next step working, removing the
> 3px gap from the entire paragraph in IE without affecting
> other browsers.
>
> Mt.
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: James Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:26 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [WSG] IE mystery whitespace
> >
> >
> > I'd say its something to do with this bug...
> >
> > http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/threepxtest.html
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > James Silva
> > Web Production
> > Gruden Pty Ltd
> >
> > Tel: 02 9299 9462
> > Fax: 02 9299 9463
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Web: http://www.gruden.com
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miles Tillinger
> > > Sent: Friday, 30 April 2004 3:42 PM
> > > To: Web Standards Group (E-mail)
> > > Subject: [WSG] IE mystery whitespace
> > >
> > > I've found a few references to mystery whitespace in IE
> but they're
> > > all related to space above and below elements. I've got mystery
> > > whitespace on the left of an element.
> > >
> > > In exhibit A in IE, the image (blue border) has a 3px gap on the
> > > left between it and the paragraph (red border).
> > > Firefox has no gap.
> > >
> > > In exhibit B I've removed the left paragraph (solid grey
> > > border) and the 3px gap is gone. I can't work out where
> the mystery
> > > space is coming from? I've tried removing whitespace in the HTML
> > > but that didn't help.
> > >
> > > http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test.html
> > > http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname.css
> > >
> > > Any ideas how I can get IE to play nice?
> > >
> > > Mt.
> > > *
> > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See
> > > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> > > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> > > *
> > >
> >
> > *
> > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See
> > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> > *
> >
> >
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See
> http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> *
>
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] IE mystery whitespace
One other thing... You may want to try a doctype that doesn't trigger "quirks" mode. For HTML 4.01 Transitional... http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd";> Cheers, ________ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 02 9299 9462 Fax: 02 9299 9463 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miles Tillinger > Sent: Friday, 30 April 2004 3:42 PM > To: Web Standards Group (E-mail) > Subject: [WSG] IE mystery whitespace > > I've found a few references to mystery whitespace in IE but > they're all related to space above and below elements. I've > got mystery whitespace on the left of an element. > > In exhibit A in IE, the image (blue border) has a 3px gap on > the left between it and the paragraph (red border). > Firefox has no gap. > > In exhibit B I've removed the left paragraph (solid grey > border) and the 3px gap is gone. I can't work out where the > mystery space is coming from? I've tried removing whitespace > in the HTML but that didn't help. > > http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test.html > http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname.css > > Any ideas how I can get IE to play nice? > > Mt. > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > * > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] IE mystery whitespace
I'd say its something to do with this bug... http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/threepxtest.html Cheers, James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 02 9299 9462 Fax: 02 9299 9463 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miles Tillinger > Sent: Friday, 30 April 2004 3:42 PM > To: Web Standards Group (E-mail) > Subject: [WSG] IE mystery whitespace > > I've found a few references to mystery whitespace in IE but > they're all related to space above and below elements. I've > got mystery whitespace on the left of an element. > > In exhibit A in IE, the image (blue border) has a 3px gap on > the left between it and the paragraph (red border). > Firefox has no gap. > > In exhibit B I've removed the left paragraph (solid grey > border) and the 3px gap is gone. I can't work out where the > mystery space is coming from? I've tried removing whitespace > in the HTML but that didn't help. > > http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test.html > http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname.css > > Any ideas how I can get IE to play nice? > > Mt. > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > * > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Relative Fonts
> There are issues though > > * Embedded WYSIWYG editors are still very immature when it > comes to XHTML and CSS (our CMS lets us plug in lots of > editors but most of them lack something in some way or other) > so enforcing the use of EM's is flawed (at best). Some of > the editors support the use of stylesheets and I suppose that > is a path I could go down - but fully compliant XHTML is > still difficult given that most editors still allow hand > editing (and you do still need that because the HTML world is > not perfect). Some of it may size - some of it may not. Totally agree. I usually opt for a separate WYSIWYG stylesheet for the editor using fixed pixel font sizes (if supported), or, in the case of ShadoMX (which uses a JavaScript/DOM based editor by default), I'll detect "edit" mode, wrap the editor in a DIV and have defined rules for all html elements within that div. Not pretty (as you end up with a massive CSS file) but it works. > * Lots of people out there don't even know their Browser has > the ability to control font size in a relative way. So when > we launched our new site we had HUNDREDS (not exagerating - > they are all logged) of complaints about the font size being > "too small" or "too big" because they did not have their font > size set to "medium" (and there doesn't appear to be a way to > detect what the setting is - probably because it is not "standard"). > And, if you have a mouse with a scroll wheel, it is very easy > for the size to change when you are on a "fixed size" page > and not realise it. Put it into perspective. You *slightly* inconvenienced a few hundred (relatively clueless) users. The alternative (fixed font sizes) would have DENIED access to hundreds (if not thousands) of users (read:customers) with poor eye sight. No comparison in my book. Besides (assuming you replied to those few hundred users), you've done them a favour by educating them on a feature they knew nothing about and hopefully put in a quick blurb about ABN AMRO Morgan's dedication to accessibility :P > * Some (more likely than less) designs just CANNOT be > implemented using only relative fonts. Say you want to have > a fixed 200px wide column on the right hand side and a > "stretchy" column in the middle. The content on the right > hand side HAS to be designed to "look" right in that 200px > space. So that means you cannot really use relative font > sizes if you are filling the 200px space. If they size it up > - it wont fit and will look stupid. So this then defeats the > purpose of using relative fonts at all - because, when they > DO upsize the font, part of the page will size and part of it > wont. Just go to some of the "well known" CSS/XHTML > standards-based sites (wont mention any names) and you will > find that not every part of the page sizes - but is this > right? What if the bit that is "too small" > for my eyes (e.g. the Menu) is the bit that the designer has > in a fixed font ? Only thing you can do in this situation is design your templates to accommodate a 1-2 notch font size change. It's not always an option of course (depending on design requirements). So I guess that's where some developers resort back to pixel sizes. Personally, I never bother. Function over form I guess. If it breaks then so be it. At least the user will still be able to read your content. > Relative font sizes ruin good design. A bold statement. How about: "Fixed font sizes reduce your potential audience" Just as valid (if not more so), no? Cheers, James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] New site - looking for feedback
Oh ffs... Sorry people (about the sig... again). Heres the original... Hi Miles, > The first thing I though was 'oooh, how did he get the Go > buttons to align so nicely with the form fields?', coz I had > been trying to do it without resorting to a table or the > deprecated align=absmiddle parameter. Then I realised you're > using images which gets around the problem, however this will > eventually become an accessibility issue as the only way to > submit the forms will be via href="javascript:submit()" on > the image, no good for screen readers. As soon as you > replace the with I'm pretty sure > you'll have the same alignment issues I had. If anyone knows > of a solution for this I'd love to know! Nope. It's a I know exactly what you mean though. I spent more time on that silly search form than any other element on the page. It basically came down to a balancing act of padding, IE box model hack, vertical-align, height and font size. I just kept fiddling with each untill it appeared "ok" in most browsers. Using IE6 and my goal for "perfect". Unfortunately, I don't have any hard/fast rules for inline form elements. Every browser seems to treat them differently. > That's that only thing I could find in what is an > aesthetically pleasing design that is a credit to the WSG. > Maybe it's time for a WSG Member's portfolio? As Russ mentioned, there is a " Built by members" section at: http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/resourcecat12.cfm Thanks for the feedback. James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] New site - looking for feedback
Hi Miles, > The first thing I though was 'oooh, how did he get the Go > buttons to align so nicely with the form fields?', coz I had > been trying to do it without resorting to a table or the > deprecated align=absmiddle parameter. Then I realised you're > using images which gets around the problem, however this will > eventually become an accessibility issue as the only way to > submit the forms will be via href="javascript:submit()" on > the image, no good for screen readers. As soon as you > replace the with I'm pretty sure > you'll have the same alignment issues I had. If anyone knows > of a solution for this I'd love to know! Nope. It's a I know exactly what you mean though. I spent more time on that silly search form than any other element on the page. It basically came down to a balancing act of padding, IE box model hack, vertical-align, height and font size. I just kept fiddling with each untill it appeared "ok" in most browsers. Using IE6 and my goal for "perfect". Unfortunately, I don't have any hard/fast rules for inline form elements. Every browser seems to treat them differently. > That's that only thing I could find in what is an > aesthetically pleasing design that is a credit to the WSG. > Maybe it's time for a WSG Member's portfolio? As Russ mentioned, there is a " Built by members" section at: http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/resourcecat12.cfm Thanks for the feedback. James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] New site - looking for feedback
Hi Mike, > I can't contribute anything on the mac side, but I have to > say I like it. > I like the graphic device of using the fine white lines > across the page and > down. Nice effect. And the transparent effect in the > heading looks great > too. Very smooth. Well, I'm just a lowly coder, but on behalf of the designer, thanks :) > I think it's a clever way to use boxes as wide as the whole > screen to overlay one colour over another so it looks like > there is a LOT more work in > the different sections than there actually is. Screen > background in the > dark red, then the middle wrapper box overlayed with the > olive colour, then the white lines through it looks like you > have a gazillion table cells there, but in fact there aren't any. Horizontal line work is actually quite simple with CSS. Just use top/bottom borders and wrapper divs that span the entire width of the page. Vertical line work (that spans the entire height) can usually only be done with background images. And become a right pain when dealing with fluid layouts in particular. > Can you tell us a bit about the design process? Did the > graphic designer start out with standards compliance in mind > or did you take the sketch/gif/PDF design or whatever and > force it into compliance? How much does your designer take > CSS techniques into account when designing? Well, to be honest, its been an on-going battle with the designers (which Mark Stanton and I are slowly winning). The bottom line I guess, is getting your designers to think in terms of "boxes". We try to educate our designers as much as possible as to what can be achieved with CSS. Once they get a grasp of the box model, they tend to design sites which are usually relatively easy to code for. Meaning very little input from us programmers during the design phase :) The biggest issues I come across are vertical repeating background images; images that span multiple "boxes" and content that requires mixed padding. Especially when a designer wants headings to begin inside a padding area. Always a pain in the rear as you then either need a single redundant div to contain the rest of the content (if we're talking about a H1) or setting up multiple rules for ALL the possible html elements (ugly). I must say one thing at this point, background images are your friend. It is WAY easier to achieve a complex *looking* site using background imagery than it is using inlines images and excess html/css. > The home page must have been a challenge - all those boxes to > line up. How will you keep them more or less in balance once > they start adding content to > it?Are you having a CMS back end on it? I've tested it with various amounts of content in all columns (nav and side bar included). It all works fine regardless of the amount of content. The amount of content really makes no difference since all columns are float:left and the footer set to clear:both. I think I threw in a or with clear:both for good measure. As for a CMS, yes, it will be completely CMS driven. We're currently using ShadoMX built by our parters Straker (http://www.straker.co.nz/shado). Heres a couple of our other (largely) CSS based ShadoMX sites: http://www.ccfa.org.au/ http://www.thegeorgeinstitute.org/ > I know you're looking for html/css comments, but to tell the > truth, the site just looks brilliant in my browsers. If it > was my work I'd be telling > everyone in the world. Much appreciated :) Cheers, James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] New site - looking for feedback
> - with a few little coding tweaks you could probably > eliminate most of your CSS IE width hacks. Hi Ben, I'm assuming you're refering to the use of "padding" divs (which is the method I normally use). If not, then please let me know. I chose to use the IE5 box model hack this time around as I want to keep the html as clutter free as possible. It also comes back to the fact that this will be a dynamic website (Coldfusion CMS based) meaning pages won't necessarily be cached, but the CSS will. Therefore, I want to keep as much of the workarounds/hacks in the CSS as possible. > - Rollover colours on top nav could have more contrast - > difficult to read dark on dark.. Duly noted. Ill bump the brightness of the orange. > - It seems weird to me that the underline disappears on > mouseover of regular links.. Agreed. Link styles are always an after thought for me. We actually have a generic template (html and css) that our designers use to define their content styles. Which is excellent (when they actually use it - unlike this instance) as it means the designers get a bit of insight into what can/cannot be done with html/css. Cheers, James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Smith > Sent: Tuesday, 30 March 2004 3:23 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [WSG] New site - looking for feedback > > pretty slick, I like it.. > > > well done. > > B > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See > http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > * > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] [OT] Outlook error: Can't open this item. Your Digital ID name ... etc
> 'Can't open this item. Your Digital ID name can not be found > by the underlying security system' My apologies Miles and WSG members. This has been raised as an issue in the past and the general consensus (at least at Gruden) was to remove sigs before posting to the list. Unfortunately, I forgot this time around. Sorry :P Here's my original post... -- Hi guys, Just looking for some feedback on our latest job*... Feel free to tear it a new one :P Sample homepage: http://www.gruden.com/dev_sites/blacktown/templates/homepage.htm Sample content page: http://www.gruden.com/dev_sites/blacktown/templates/content.htm CSS is at: http://www.gruden.com/dev_sites/blacktown/templates/styles/styles_main.css http://www.gruden.com/dev_sites/blacktown/templates/styles/styles_content.css http://www.gruden.com/dev_sites/blacktown/templates/styles/styles_homepage.css (excuse the long URLs, DNS changes haven't come across yet) Basically, im looking for some design/accessibility/UI comments that I can pass on to our graphics department. Also, could someone run it through the usual Mac browsers for me (and provide feedback)? Our little iMac is playing up. I'd be more than happy to discuss any html/css decisions I made. *Obviously this is just a quick knockup of the initial design, as the client wants to see it in HTML form. Thanks in advance, James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] New site - looking for feedback
Hi guys, Just looking for some feedback on our latest job*... Feel free to tear it a new one :P Sample homepage: http://www.gruden.com/dev_sites/blacktown/templates/homepage.htm Sample content page: http://www.gruden.com/dev_sites/blacktown/templates/content.htm CSS is at: http://www.gruden.com/dev_sites/blacktown/templates/styles/styles_main.css http://www.gruden.com/dev_sites/blacktown/templates/styles/styles_content.css http://www.gruden.com/dev_sites/blacktown/templates/styles/styles_homepage.css (excuse the long URLs, DNS changes haven't come across yet) Basically, im looking for some design/accessibility/UI comments that I can pass on to our graphics department. Also, could someone run it through the usual Mac browsers for me (and provide feedback)? Our little iMac is playing up. I'd be more than happy to discuss any html/css decisions I made. *Obviously this is just a quick knockup of the initial design, as the client wants to see it in HTML form. Thanks in advance, ________ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] Relative font sizes - resizing in IE
> The following links should help. > > http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/typography/ > incremental_differences.html > > http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sizematters/ > > http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/font/index.html Cheers Leo, very thorough. ____ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] Relative font sizes - resizing in IE
Hi guys, Can anyone point me to a good article regarding relative font sizes and IE? I'm trying to avoid large font size point changes when changing "text size" in IE. I think i've got it suss'ed by using a font size keyword (e.g. "font-size:small") on the body rule. But I'd still like a definitive guide on the subject. UPDATE: Before sending this email I found an article that confirms the solution I stumbled across. http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_26_using_relative_font_sizes.html If you scroll down to the heading "How to do it: detailed explanation", you'll find, well, a detailed explanation :P Sorry if this is common CSS knowledge (wasn't to me). Just thought I'd share. Cheers, James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] double quoting
Hi Peter, Found this: "All attribute values must be quoted, even those which appear to be numeric." Ref: Differences with HTML 4 http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/diffs.html#h-4.4 It didn't mention any particular requirements for the quotes (single or double), although, the example given uses double quotes. So I dug a little deeper and found... AttValue::='"' ([^<&"] | Reference)* '"' | "'" ([^<&'] | Reference)* "'" Ref: Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.0 (Third Edition) W3C Recommendation 04 February 2004 UNDER -> 2.3 Common Syntactic Constructs http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml-20040204/ I read that (snip) to mean: Any tag attribute's value must begin with a double quote and end with a double quote OR begin with a single quote and end with a single quote. The other guff in the middle outlines what characters are valid as values. Basically anything bar < & and " OR an entity reference. So, as far as I can tell, single quotes on your attribute values are perfectly acceptable (for xhtml1). Havent done any real testing in browsers, but I'd say it is a non-issue. Cheers, James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com From: Peter Ottery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2004 12:09 PM To: Web Standards Group (E-mail) Subject: [WSG] double quoting Hi guys, theres a CMS (content management system) I'm dealing with that is converting some double quotes to single quotes, so this... ...becomes... ...when published. this is on a XHTML transitional page. Now, I'm a bit removed from the CMS itself, but the dev guy (i'm just a front end guy) thats dealing with it said it may take a little while to correct this but in the meantime he didnt think it was a problem for any browsers so it would be low priority. Can anyone shed some light on whether this is true or whether some browsers will choke on single quotes? I'm a little sceptical about the low priority and am worried about crucial bits of content like this going screwy... cheers, pete ottery smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] Opera and centering
> Opera seems to have problems centering divs (with margin: 0 > auto;) - is there a workaround to fix this? What version of Opera? Works fine for me (just did a quick test to confirm)... Running Ver 7.23 on winXP. Cheers, ____ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Image MAP Not Working In FireFox...
Heres my original response, minus the screwed digital-sig >>> >From the horses mouth... "Note that in XHTML 1.0, the name attribute of these elements is formally deprecated, and will be removed in a subsequent version of XHTML." "These elements" being: a, applet, form, frame, iframe, img, and map If you're not using XHTML 1.1, you should be ok. Ref: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/diffs.html#h-4.10 Cheers, ____ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Image MAP Not Working In FireFox...
>From the horses mouth... "Note that in XHTML 1.0, the name attribute of these elements is formally deprecated, and will be removed in a subsequent version of XHTML." "These elements" being: a, applet, form, frame, iframe, img, and map If you're not using XHTML 1.1, you should be ok. Ref: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/diffs.html#h-4.10 Cheers, ____ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com From: Chris Stratford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 16 February 2004 4:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Image MAP Not Working In FireFox... Ahhh Thanks James, I thought i read somewhere that XHTML has removed the use of the NAME attribute... ?? It still validates! So I assume its all good now :) Cheers! Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.neester.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] Image MAP Not Working In FireFox...
Hi Chris, Adding a name attribute to your map tag seems to fix the problem in FF. i.e: Cheers, James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com From: Chris Stratford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 16 February 2004 3:35 PM To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] Image MAP Not Working In FireFox... Hey Everyone, I am designing a website (well a redesign) http://ausliq.neester.com its in XHTML with CSS... its a redesign of: www.australianliquidators.com now - the navigation image... doesnt work... but only in firefox... Just wondering, is this a problem with my coding (XHTML 100% valid). or is it a FireFox issue? Thanks! -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.neester.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] FireFox - OT.. Sorry - reply off list
whoops, spoke too soon... Seems that Firefox is missing scroll bars everywhere... Weird. I guess I got so used to spacebar/mouse wheel scrolling that I didn't notice. Btw, Running winXP Pro. If someones got a fix, please email me off list (as this is OT - sorry Peter/Russ). Cheers, James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] FireFox - OT.. Sorry - reply off list
I just downloaded/installed it... No problems here. BTW, just some initial observations: - nice installer (about time) - huge improvement on page load time (faster than IE?) - missing a vertical scroll bar in the "tools -> options -> advanced pane"... G :/ Go get it: http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ ____ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com From: Chris Stratford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2004 12:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] FireFox - OT.. Sorry - reply off list Sorry - its OT I know. Just wondering if anyone gets the error in the new FireFix: Error Launching Browser Window: No XBL Binding For Window How can I resolve this issue? Sorry again for the OT post - please reply to me Off List. - Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> www.neester.com <http://www.neester.com/> - smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] Yep, going slowly insane
> But the- why the - but WHYYY Like I said... No idea. One for the ages I guess. > This doesn't make sense ... This worked fine on another site. Makes perfect sense (to me atleast). As the footer is only going to "clear" the last *non-floated* element in innerMid. Floated elements, by default, will overflow outside its containing block element... Therefore you need to clear the last float within the div, not outside (thus resetting the "true" height of innermid). Sorry if that explaination doesn't make much sense, don't know how else to explain it. > Thanks for taking a look James. I'm slogging away. Even when > I go back a few steps and remove all the floats the footer > doesn't clear properly > - it's ridiculous! > P No prob... Good luck with getting it sorted. Cheers, James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] Yep, going slowly insane
Peter, don't give up just yet mate.
Adding:
#innermid {
margin-bottom : 1px;
}
Seems to fix your footer problem (at least in Firebird). NFI why though.
Placing "" at the very end of your "innerMid"
div (but inside, not outside it), fixes your background colour problem.
But, it seems you have a bunch of other issues (header and nav positioning).
I'll let someone else chip in for those.
Cheers,
____
James Silva
Web Production
Gruden Pty Ltd
Tel: +61 02 9956 6388
Fax: +61 02 9956 8433
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://www.gruden.com
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] Opera bug?
Are you using the generic "#top" (which I believe most browsers support) or are you pointing the link to an actual named anchor? ________ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com > -Original Message- > From: Luc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, 2 February 2004 10:47 AM > To: webstandardsgroup > Subject: [WSG] Opera bug? > > > Hello list, > > A div, set with overflow: auto has a "go to top" link in it. > It works on most browsers, only Opera 7.2 leads you to the > top of the page, not to the top of the div. According to > Opera, overflow is fully supported, so is this a bug that > anybody knows? > > -- > Best regards, > Luc > > > http://www.dzinelabs.com > > Powered by The Bat! version 1.63 Beta/7 with Windows 2000 > (build 2195), version 5.0 Service Pack 4 and using the best > browser: Opera. > > "Never accept a drink from a urologist." - Kevin Michael Reed. > > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * > smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WSG] CSS Filter (Alpha Opacity) on MZ/NS
Hi Andrew, Those CSS "filters" are proprietary Internet Explorer. They are not part of any W3C CSS specification. Therefore it's highly unlikely you will EVER see support for them in any other browser. Read more about them here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/filter/fi lters.asp As a general rule, you should avoid them where possible (my opinion). You can usually achieve the same effect by re-working your html/css layout. cheers, ________ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com -Original Message- From: Andrew Cheong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] CSS Filter (Alpha Opacity) on MZ/NS Why does the CSS filter for alpha opacity not work in Mozilla (1.4, 1.5, 1.6)? Look at http://www.xdemi.com/music/main.php?s=fun&p=links on I.E. - notice the background of the "front window" is transparent. In Mozilla and Netscape, it does not do this... I am an amateur designer - guess I never introduced myself here, but I'm glad to be here. I've only recently turned 16 years old, but I'm very interested in web design and even more in learning. I am very meticulous and support web standards all the way (although I have given up trying to conform with WAI standards haha) Anyway, I hope someone will be able to inform me of what stupid mistake I am making that does not allow this filter to work. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Search Engines
Hi Colm, What exactly do you mean by "old search engine hacks"? These days search usually means "Google". The guys at Google are doing their best to lower ranking (and in some cases remove all together) any/all sites using suspect tatics to gain search results. Stuff that will help with search result ranking: - Clean, VALID code (strip out formatting to your CSS file wherever possible) - Small to medium sized pages (google has some arbitrary limit on how much content per page it will index) - dont hide content (if possible) - dont put content in javascript - avoid nasty UUID based query string values - 's!!! Make sure every page is unique - Structure your documents properly. i.e. use Hx tags if your presenting a heading - lots of links comming in and going out - most importantly, lots of content, regularly updated. Google will learn how often your site changes and index accordingly. Also, more people will link to you if you have good content (i.e. O'matic series is Google gold). cheers, ____ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com > Hi all, > > I am in the process of revamping a site to being standards > compliant. One of > the issues I wish to address is removing all the old search > engine hacks and > implementing more standards based ways of raising the profile of the site. > > The site is a large corporate served with XHTML / CSS / XML(+some cgi) > > I dont know if this is OT, but I imagine many of you may have come across > this problem before. > > Any advice / sites that may be of use? > > Cheers, > Colm > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] [OT] XSL [Virus checkedAU]
Thanks so much everyone. I ended up with the following : tblAltRow Lindsay, the MS XMLDOM object im using borks at the "expr" attribute... "test" seems to work fine. Thanks again everyone. ____ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] [OT] XSL
Sorry if this is a little offtopic, but there are some cluey people on this list so i thought i'd chance it. Using ASP, i'm transforming some simple XML into a HTML table. Heres an excerpt of the XSL file: Now, after getting it all working, i've been informed by the graphics department that we need alternating row background colours. Basically, i need to run some kind of MOD() function to set a class for each second . Is this possible with XSLT? Or do i need to look at doing some pre/post processing of my data using ASP? p.s. keep in mind that this is my first attempt at transforming XML... so be gentle :) cheers, ________ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] hiding styles from mozilla
Nice! Didn't even cross my mind... so simple :) Looks like my CSS-hack-free-run remains in tact for another day... thanks mate, James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com -Original Message- From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 1:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] hiding styles from mozilla Yep, I'm doing that as well. I contain the #overflow container in a another div with fixed width. | #container |#overflow| | |#float| Then use a clear:both break under both to force a footer below the longest content. The overflow div should resize to the width of the container. HTH Cheers James * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] hiding styles from mozilla
> It has a fixed height, auto width. If I set the width to fixed it (horiz > scroll) appears... Unfortunately the width needs to be set (as there's a floating div to form a second column) > Your other option is to repeatedly tap your client on the head with a > toffee hammer until they see the light of day. Believe me, if i could, i would... :( cheers, ____ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] hiding styles from mozilla [Virus checkedAU]
Thanks Vik...
I thought about something like that, but odds are, those selectors WILL be
support in newer versions of browsers...
i guess my question should have been "how can i apply a style ONLY to IE
browsers?". Because bottom line, i dont really want the height property to
be set for any browser other than IE.
btw, thanks for the help on our firewall server. There was a problem
yesterday (was quite amusing as Todd was cursing at the server for half the
day)... seems that 1 of the nics dropped its default gateway setting (for
reasons unknown)... thus killing all net access for the office... got it
sorted though :)
cheers mate,
________
James Silva
Web Production
Gruden Pty Ltd
Tel: +61 02 9956 6388
Fax: +61 02 9956 8433
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://www.gruden.com
> Hi James,
>
> How about using the > or + selectors to override the height rule?
>
> something like
>
> body div { height: 100%; }
> body > div { height: inherit; }
>
> Just an idea. I'm not even sure if Opera or IE/Mac supports these
> selectors. If they do, then I guess this method won't work.
>
> Also try the attribute selector ( tag[attribute="value"] ):
>
> div#outer { height: 100%; }
> div[id="outer"] { height: inherit; }
>
> I know that this is the opposite of what you've asked for (hiding CSS from
> Mozilla) but I just can't think of anything Mozilla doesn't implement
> properly ;-)
>
> HTH,
> Vik
> --
> Viktor Radnai
> Web Developer
> Business Innovation Online
> Ernst & Young Australia
> http://www.eyware.com/
> http://www.eyonline.com/
> Direct: +612 9248 4361
> Fax: +612 9248 4073
> Mobile: +61408 662 546
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*
RE: [WSG] hiding styles from mozilla
> You could try mixing 'n matching hacks from here:
> http://centricle.com/ref/css/filters/
Thanks Lindsay...
* html #pageText {
height : 280px;
}
Did the trick.
Height property is only set by IE browsers. Weird.. but it works :)
____
James Silva
Web Production
Gruden Pty Ltd
Tel: +61 02 9956 6388
Fax: +61 02 9956 8433
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://www.gruden.com
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*
[WSG] hiding styles from mozilla
Hi guys, Is there a known CSS hack to hide styles from Mozilla based browsers? For those that are curious... I've got a client that is hell bent on having a fixed height site (sigh). They want the header/footer to remain fixed while the body content scrolls. Now, this is straight forward to achieve using a frameset... but(!) frames are evil, the site is 95% complete so i dont want to start choping it up now... and... frames are evil. so... i thought, using the overflow property would work nicely on the main content DIV. Problem is, it leaves an ugly horizontal scrollbar across the bottom. So, next best option was to use a IE only property, "overflow-y" (not ideal, i know). In order for the IE only overflow-y to work, i need to set a fixed height on the DIV. This causes Moz based browsers to effectively overflow the text OUTSIDE the boundary of the containing div. Meaning the footer now sits at the END of the DIV, while the text overflows straight over footer (its ugly, trust me). Opera (and hopefully other browsers) automatically resize the height to accommodate the content (which is a reasonable compromise). So, i could leave the IE only scroll effect in place *if* i could somehow hide the HEIGHT property from Moz based browsers... any ideas? ________ James Silva Web Production Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
