Re: [WSG] Browser toolbars
Besides it being bad form, the only standard I know of that even mentions manipulating the browser chrome is the WCAG Samurai Errata for Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 1.0. Specifically * Do not cause pop-ups or other windows to appear and do not change the current window without informing the user. Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Information Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. k.tapp...@griffith.edu.au Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 From: Frogspoon To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Date: 05/05/2009 08:51 AM Subject: [WSG] Browser toolbars Good morning all, I have a quick question regarding browser toolbars and functionality. I have a client who is requesting a web application (online form) be built where they will lose some if not all browser navigation control and functionality, much like you would see on a Internet banking page. I'm against the idea personally but wanted to find out if there are any such standards out there that strongly encourage you keep these on your web page for usability and accessibility reasons. Finally, they wanted to the URL to be hidden as well, surely this is not recommended?? I'd appreciate any help on these questions, Cheers Frog *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Image links
Hi Mike,
>img a {}
Has anyone mentioned that this is incorrect? :-)
Kind Regards,
Kane Tapping
Web Standards Developer
Web and Content Management Services
Griffith University. 4111. Australia.
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"Mike at Green-Beast.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: [WSG] Image links
Hi Dean,
> When you set up an anchor rule that has an
> underline on hover meant for text, is there a
> simple way to prevent the underline on image
This should work for you:
img a {
text-decoration : none;
}
Cheers.
Mike Cherim
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Re: [WSG] How to make diagonal lines change color?
Hi ,
If I HAD to do something like this, I would create a Gif image that had a
transparency where you wanted the colour change.
Then use the GIF as a background image on a item and specify a background
colour that changed on hover.
div#name {background: #f00 url(image-name.gif) repeat;}
div#name:hover {background-color #00f;}
This method would remove the issues with pre-caching a second image that
you cant get around with using offsets because you want to tile the image.
Kind Regards,
Kane Tapping
Web Standards Developer
Web and Content Management Services
Griffith University. 4111. Australia.
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"Laert Jansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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[WSG] How to make diagonal lines change color?
Hello everyone.
Well there´s something I want to do but I have no idea if it´s possible to
be done and how would I do this.
My website (www.laertjansen.com) has some two color diagonal lines as a
bg.
What I want to do is: On the mouse over color X it becomes color Y
On the mouse over color Y it becomes color
X
Is it possible to be done?
Thanks a lot for any help
--
Laert Jansen
www.laertjansen.com
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Re: [WSG] a target=” blank” not part of x html
>What I'm getting from the discussion to this point: >web *site* - new window bad; >web *app* - new window sometimes necessary >target="_blank" - deprecated* and probably bad in any circumstance Thats my position. the only difference being that if possible webapps should try to pop divs inside their current browser window/tab. Target="" does still have a use, but its only for framesets in the older specs, and unless your managing legacy code, most designers on this list should be way past making frame based web sites/apps. Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 Andrew Maben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 29/03/2008 12:58 AM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject Re: [WSG] a target=” blank” not part of xhtml On Mar 28, 2008, at 10:09 AM, Hassan Schroeder wrote: Perhaps if you've never seen or used one, it's hard to conceptualize, but they exist. Ouch... However if the subject is still opening new windows vis a vis the "target" attribute, it seems to me hard to conceptualize a web app that doesn't rely on both client- and server-side scripting. And returning to the original question: Why not. I can't imagine it's better practice to replace it with javascript. I'd think that in a web app it certainly is better practice to use javascript? What I'm getting from the discussion to this point: web *site* - new window bad; web *app* - new window sometimes necessary target="_blank" - deprecated* and probably bad in any circumstance No doubt people will continue to hold different opinions as to how to deal with links to non-HTML documents. For myself I've decided the best course is to offer a direct link and leave it to the user to decide whether to open a new window/tab, and I think this is coming to be the majority and "standard" position. Those who hold a different view are free to do so, and act accordingly. Andrew *a little bee in my bonnet: deprecated: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deprecated depreciated: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/depreciated *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a target= ” blank” not part of xhtml
Hi , Just wanted to join the chorus and say that poping windows is behaviour and should not be a part of the HTML spec. It really is akin to manipulating browser chrome and other designer land grabs (i.e. forgetting its the users broswer, not yours). Somethings i have found is that the original issue can usually be addressed by using styling to indicate external or document links (and leaving it up to the user to handle that in their prefered way (personaly i like to middle click for a pop under tab)) or for legitimate needs (usually web apps) a JS (behaviour) solution is appropriate. Some of the best include lighbox style popups for 'wizard prompts' or help. Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 Andrew Maben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/03/2008 02:00 AM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject Re: [WSG] a target=” blank” not part of xhtml On Mar 27, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Michael Horowitz wrote: I can't imagine its better practice to replace it with javascript. No, "better practice" is to avoid foisting new windows on users altogether. (IMHO - but I don't think I'm alone...) Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Validating Flash
Hi Tim, For XHTML 1.0 Strict I use: Alternative content for users if plug-in fails to load. Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 "Tim MacKay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/03/2008 03:37 PM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To cc Subject [WSG] Validating Flash Hi List, My question is about embedding Flash on html pages (just certain elements – not talking about full flash sites). I always get errors from HTML Tidy and the validator about the object and embed tags, which wrecks my validated markup. What is the standards-compliant way to embed Flash elements so that my site validates and stops throwing errors? Thanks, Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] multiple css style sheets
Hi , >I think its also improper markup to have more than one stylesheet In no way should multiple statements be construed as improper. Multiple 'link-rel's" is the correct way to specify different media type's and is no more incorrect then having more then one statement. The move to modular code and the seperation of content/behavior/style is a good one for the industry. Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 "Tim MacKay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28/02/2008 04:17 PM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To cc Subject RE: [WSG] multiple css style sheets I think its also improper markup to have more than one stylesheet so @import might be a way to keep the code modular and still only have one style sheet link. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kane Tapping Sent: Thursday, 28 February 2008 4:59 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] multiple css style sheets Hi , I believe @import was originally used by designers to create styles Netscape Navigator 4 would not implement incorrectly. Some other reasons why you might use this rather then multiple declarations, include: 1. You can declare the @import within a CSS file
Re: [WSG] multiple css style sheets
Hi , I believe @import was originally used by designers to create styles Netscape Navigator 4 would not implement incorrectly. Some other reasons why you might use this rather then multiple declarations, include: You can declare the @import within a CSS file
Re: [WSG] multiple css style sheets
Hi ,
>How do browsers determine the winner in a conflict... well, AFAIK, they
take the first style that is most relevant to the element.
That would be the LAST style that is most relevant to the element. (unless
!important is used to override the cascade.)
It also worth noting that multiple stylesheets are also commonly
referenced within CSS using @import.
The main benefit of using multiple stylesheets is for modular code.
Kind Regards,
Kane Tapping
Web Standards Developer
Web and Content Management Services
Griffith University. 4111. Australia.
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Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630
"Steven Workman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: [WSG] multiple css style sheets
Michael,
Multiple style sheets are quite common in large sites. Splitting your
stylesheets into a "basics", "main" and "special cases" is good for
keeping your code separate, also allowing multiple developers to work on
different areas of a site's styles without interrupting each other. It's
also becoming more common that any off the shelf javascript techniques
come with their own stylesheets i.e. Cody Lindley's Thickbox.
How do browsers determine the winner in a conflict... well, AFAIK, they
take the first style that is most relevant to the element.
Say you had Some text
If your first stylesheet said:
ul li { color:red;
}
and the second one said
.bob { color: blue;
}
It would render as blue.
However, if the first one said
ul li .bob { color:red;
}
and the second one remained the same
.bob { color: blue;
}
It would render as red
Steve Workman
PA Consulting Group
www.paconsulting.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.steel-software.com
On 27/02/2008, Michael Horowitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Just inherited a site and saw pages with multiple style sheets. Is
there a reason for that and how does the browser determine what to use
if there is a conflict
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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[WSG] WCAG Samurai released.
Members of this list should be interested that the WCAG Samurai errata for Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0 has been released. http://wcagsamurai.org/ For those not familiar with the Samurai errata, it is alternative to the FUBARed WCAG 2.0 For more information on what happened to WCAG 2.0, please read http://alistapart.com/articles/tohellwithwcag2 Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] strong element being more semantical and accessible for required field
Hi Matt, I think Name (required) is the best way of representing required fields, It is what I implemented for Griffith University. (see it in action: http://www.griffith.edu.au/cgi-bin/feedbackform.cgi ) Thinking further on the subject, if I was to redo the Styling I would probably have used a declaration instead of the . Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 "Matt Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26/02/2008 01:14 PM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject Re: [WSG] strong element being more semantical and accessible for required field > In some cases that's an excellent solution (what I've been using for a > while) but unfortunately power users will dial down verbosity so much that > they will quiet legends as well. > > A blind power user I know told me * is best. He also told me nothing else is > needed, but he's a person and that part my be his opinion. For all-around > safety, one of these might be best: Thanks Mike that's really interesting. I would argue, based on the anecdotal evidence you've given, that the following legend is superflous and prevents logical grouping. > > Required > Name (required) > Email (required) > I am definitely leaning toward the following: Personal Details Name (required) Email (required) Phone ... Giving in to other's suggestions perhaps the could become :) The benefits here are: * Easily scannable for the regular user * Will be read out for screen readers * Semantically intact * Inputs can be grouped logically * No need for annoying legends Does this seem to be a combination of the general consensus? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Web Publishing Guidelines
The Griffith University Web Style Guide http://www.griffith.edu.au/web-publishing/web-style-guide/ It covers range of Corporate branding, Information architecture, writing for the web, and web standards issues. I think its good, but I may be biased :-) Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 "Koen Willems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/02/2008 05:30 AM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To cc Subject RE: [WSG] Web Publishing Guidelines I can recomment the Dutch Guidelines: http://www.webrichtlijnen.nl/english/ Regards, Koen Willems -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Faul, Mark Verzonden: donderdag 31 januari 2008 16:04 Aan: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Onderwerp: [WSG] Web Publishing Guidelines Hi everyone, I'm currently working on a new set of web publishing standards or guidelines. The New Zealand Government Web Standards and Recommendations [ http://webstandards.govt.nz/index.php/Home_page ] are a great inspiration, as well as the W3C standards of course. Just wondering if others can refer me to good examples? Cheers! Mark This e-mail originates from the City of Ottawa e-mail system. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me at the telephone number shown above or by return e-mail and delete this communication and any copy immediately. Thank you. Le présent courriel a été expédié par le système de courriels de la Ville d'Ottawa. Toute distribution, utilisation ou reproduction du courriel ou des renseignements qui s'y trouvent par une personne autre que son destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous avez reçu le message par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser par téléphone (au numéro précité) ou par courriel, puis supprimer sans délai la version originale de la communication ainsi que toutes ses copies. Je vous remercie de votre collaboration. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Standards friendly 'page tagging' web stats
Hi Paul, >I'm heading down to Sydney in Sept for some training on it's use >and how to best implement it. Please tell me your not paying for that. About Google Analytics http://www.google.com/support/googleanalytics/bin/topic.py?topic=10977 Installing the tracking code http://www.google.com/support/googleanalytics/bin/topic.py?topic=10976 How do I add tracking code to my website? http://www.google.com/support/googleanalytics/bin/answer.py?answer=55488&topic=11126 > Just wanted to make sure I didn't break the site by implementing this. You can implement the JS on a couple of test pages if you would like to test the result before including it in all your pages. Kind Regards, Kane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 27/08/2007 03:07:35 PM: > > Thanks for the responses and suggestions. > > I haven't checked out Google Analytics yet, although it was on my list. > In fact I'm heading down to Sydney in Sept for some training on it's use > and how to best implement it. > > Patrick, reports based on server log files are considerably limiting. > For example, visitors are generally identified by IP and Session ID. > This doesn't tell me if the person is a repeat customer, or how often > they frequent the website, and also provides more accurate filtering of > non-human user agents (as UAs don't tend to render the HTML or executive > the JS). > > The data collected is particularly useful for measuring the use of > "back" and "forward" button usage, monitoring the effectiveness of > campaigns, conversion rates, abandonment rates/locations, etc. > > Just wanted to make sure I didn't break the site by implementing this. > > > Paul Hempsall > Web Developer > > > Lake Macquarie City Council > Phone: (02) 4921-0713 > Fax: (02) 4921-0566 > Web: http://www.lakemac.com.au > > This information is intended for the addressee only. The use, > copying or distribution of this message or any information it > contains, by anyone other than the addressee is prohibited by the sender. > > Any views expressed in this communication are those of the > individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them > to be the views of Council. > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] vCard File
Hi , > Can someone please suggest a cool icon for vCard downloads? It must > be 2.0 of course :-) hCard and hCalendar icons are available from Wolfgang Bartelme. http://www.factorycity.net/projects/microformats-icons/ http://microformats.org/wiki/icons I have recently been involved in a redevelopment of the Griffith University phonebook (not live yet), which has microformat intergration. (the previous upgrade 2 years ago added it) You can see an example of a search result here: http://users.on.net/~frost/phonebook/ For extra credit have a look at the print version of the page. Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/08/2007 01:30:09 PM: > vCard's (.vcf files) will also open in a Mac OS X Address book. > Not everyone will have a VCF compatible address book and hence an > attempt should be made to educate/explain their use. > > You should mark up the displayed address information as an hCard: > http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard > ... and then use the technorati vcard generator http://technorati.com/contact > to scrape the page and produce your vcard for you > > Can someone please suggest a cool icon for vCard downloads? It must > be 2.0 of course :-) > > > - Original Message - > From: Joyce Evans > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:51 PM > Subject: [WSG] vCard File > > I think there may have been a discussion regarding the vCard File > recently, and if there was, I didn’t study those emails because I > didn’t have to deal with it at the time. Today, however, I got a > new project of re-creating a website with the current design. On > this client’s contact page, there is a link to the .vcf file, which > when I click on it, the client’s contact information appears in the > Contacts section of my Outlook program. I’ve never seen a link to a > vCard File on a website until today. Is it okay to have this link? > What happens if the visitor to the website does not use Outlook? Thank you. > > Joyce > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WCAG Samurai Errata
Hi , > - no noscript? > I still use it to add a submit button to dropdowns which are otherwise > javascript driven - I thought I was doing a good thing! (Wah! :( ) > Hmm.. its in the introduction, but not in the document. Thats not > right, surely? I took this one to mean that you should be writing your form in a accessible and non-js way first then use JS to HIJAX ( http://ajaxian.com/archives/hijax-graceful-degration) that version to provide enhanced useability.This way you get a perfectly useable form without JS and enhanced usability when it is enabled. Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 08/06/2007 04:19:08 PM: > On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 15:22:36 +1000, Kane Tapping wrote: > > I have been reading with interest the WCAG Samurai Errata ( > > http://wcagsamurai.org/errata/intro.html ) and am suprised to have not > > found it discussed on WSG as of yet. > > Thank you! I missed this announcement, somehow. What a refreshing read! > :) > > Points > > - no noscript? > I still use it to add a submit button to dropdowns which are otherwise > javascript driven - I thought I was doing a good thing! (Wah! :( ) > Hmm.. its in the introduction, but not in the document. Thats not > right, surely? > > - Guideline 10 > "Do not add non-link, printable characters (surrounded by spaces or > not) between adjacent links unless the semantics of the document > naturally would include such characters." > Am I right in interpeting this as that we *don't* need to make sure > there are extra characters between links! Wow! Cool! :) > > :reads more: > > warmly, > Lea > -- > Lea de Groot > Elysian Systems > Brisbane, Australia > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] WCAG Samurai Errata
Hi, I have been reading with interest the WCAG Samurai Errata ( http://wcagsamurai.org/errata/intro.html ) and am suprised to have not found it discussed on WSG as of yet. It raises many discussion points two of which mirror my own personal opinion... Guideline 9.4: Do not attempt to create your own tab order. That is a job for a browser and adaptive technology. Guideline 9.5: Don’t provide your own keyboard shortcuts. That is a job for a browser or adaptive technology. I have always found these priority three guidelines to be counter productive because they often conflict with the built-in navigation controls from browsers and screen readers making the website harder to use by those you are trying to help by following the guidelines. What is your opinion on the errata ? Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] dl v table for form layout
I had a very similar issue with my feedback form. Eventualy I split it into three fieldsets: your feedback, your details, and a privacy statement. http://www.griffith.edu.au/cgi-bin/feedbackform.cgi - Kane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 30/05/2007 11:16:11 PM: > > It probably shouldn't be used for pairing as you describe, but rather a > > group of inputs that all share some common-ground. In my case I use them > > to contain groups of required versus non-required inputs as well as the > > type of information sought (contact info, etc.). > > Sorry to bring this up again but I've been thinking a bit more about this: > a fieldset should be used to group related form controls and each fieldset > should have a legend, but what if you have a form control that's not > really related to anything else? Do you put it in a fieldset by itself? > Then what do you do about the legend when in a lot of cases it'll simply > be duplicating what's in the label? > > For instance, a form which has contact details and a message text area > might be split into one fieldset for the contact details and another for > the message (I know it could probably be argued that it could all go in > one fieldset but let's say for argument's sake that there's another > fieldset in between requesting the user to select from a series of > checkboxes that needs to go in its own fieldset). There's only really one > way to say "this is where your message goes" without being redundant, so > do you use a 2nd fieldset or go for a generic div to avoid the repetition > of legend/label? > > -- > Tyssen Design > www.tyssendesign.com.au > Ph: (07) 3300 3303 > Mb: 0405 678 590 > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Fw: [WSG] Content Management issue ?
Mail list guidelines The mail list does not cover: * Discussion of content management/web publishing system issues beyond those directly involved with Web Standards (there is a CMS list for that purpose, Log in and go to Edit your login details and mail list subscriptions and set your preferences to "Full CMS list" or "CMS list in digest mode") ----- Forwarded by Kane Tapping/Staff/Griffith on 31/05/2007 10:25 AM - [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 31/05/2007 10:09:30 AM: > I've not had that much experience with DW/Contribute, but I know they've > both got pretty ordinary CSS support which means in a lot of cases you > have to create separate Design Time Stylesheets just to get your layout to > look presentable in Contribute. > > On Thu, 31 May 2007 09:50:33 +1000, Marcin Szczepanski > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Rather than muck around with CMS systems for content sites, we get our > > clients to use Adobe Contribute: > > > > http://www.adobe.com/products/contribute/ > > > > Essentially provides them a WYSIWYG interface to edit pages on their > > site, preview them, etc. Works with Dreamweaver templates for editable > > regions, repeating regions, etc - but these are just special "comments" > > in the HTML, so you could add them without Dreamweaver. > > > > With the right combination of editable regions etc you can even have > > non-technical users editing dynamic sites, as you just don't give them > > access to edit the parts that generate code. > > > > It's not free, but you're going to save time compared to setting up a > > server-side CMS and moving the site into it, etc. Also supports > > posting to blogs and things like that. > > > > Might not be the best solution for a 10,000+ page Intranet that needs > > complex workflow etc, but most sites aren't that sort of size. > > > > Regards, > > Marcin Szczepanski > > Senior Web Developer > > webqem pty ltd > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of Kevin Ross > > Sent: Tuesday, 29 May 2007 2:16 AM > > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > > Subject: [WSG] Content Management issue ? > > > > Hi: > > > > I have a question which has surfaced due to an upcoming requirement. > > > > I have built a web site for a client who now wants to be able to > > manage the site on her own. She is computer literate, but not a web > > designer, by any means. I am new to the idea of Content Management > > systems and am really trying to wrap my brain around what they really > > do and how to set one up. I guess I am wondering how other designers > > handle this type of issue? How do you setup clients to manage their > > own site so they are not having to take a detailed course in Web > > Design. I hope my concern is understood, as I have been thinking > > about this issue for a while and have investigated certain software... > > Joomla, Wordpress... > > > > Can anyone lend a hand? Thanks very much... > > > > Regards, > > Kevin. > > > > > > *** > > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > *** > > > > > > -- > Tyssen Design > www.tyssendesign.com.au > Ph: (07) 3300 3303 > Mb: 0405 678 590 > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em
Setting the font-size like that is to create a more even base-line size across multiple browsers. http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/font/browser.html It is not the determining factor on end-user font size. (unless of course you never declare the em size for your markup) - that is depended on the value of the em declarations used for markup and the em declarations used on any container objects. If you want to complain that 9-11pt text is too small? fine, but you are disagreeing with one possible end result, not the body: font-size % declaration. >arbitrarily assuming that there's something wrong with the user's choice of default ... I guess we also shouldnt be second guessing our users choice of font, weight, spacing, color ... positioning ? And one day all users will view the webpages using their own custom user stylesheets... Until that day expect designers to be actively styling their pages as they see fit. The point i was trying to make is that you can design your site while also allowing scaleability, user preference to impact the design and to also ensure your content is usable across a variety of mediums. - Kane Felix Miata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25/05/2007 05:15 PM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em On 2007/05/25 15:31 (GMT+1000) Kane Tapping apparently typed: > Setting the body to font size to 65% - 70% is a good start. Actually it's a bad start, arbitrarily assuming that there's something wrong with the user's choice of default, and reducing it by some arbitrary amount, even though you don't have a clue what it was to start with. Browser default sizes are purposely adjustable so that their users can tailor web page text sizes to suit their own personal needs. http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/bigdefaults.html It's also an excellent definition of disrespect for your site's visitors. -- "The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining ever brighter till the full light of day." Proverbs 4:18 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em
Hi ,
Yeah, your never going to get an exact match through the browsers using
ems, you kind of have to let go of pixel perfect design and aim your
design as a flexible interpretation of your css. This approach will also
mean your design will cope with users setting larger (or smaller) text
sizes in their browser (or you could add this feature into your site
yourself).
When you start using ems you cannot give and exact height or width for
your text (it will change across browsers), but you can ensure that there
is a constant ratio between your elements on all browsers. ie your 's
are ALWAYS 2x the size of your 's.
Another thing that may crop up is that Firefox has absolute s***house
rounding when calculating em sizes, so you will need to keep a careful eye
on any borders that are declared on objects sized with ems. quite often it
will round the border size to 0, and not display a border :-(
Kind Regards,
Kane Tapping
Web Standards Developer
Web and Content Management Services
Griffith University. 4111. Australia.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630
"Sagnik Dey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25/05/2007 04:02 PM
Please respond to
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
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Subject
Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em
Thnx for the suggestion..but i need to define the font size in the body
itself
I've defined 75% which works well in IE6..but it appears smaller in
IE6....
-Sagnik
On 5/25/07, Kane Tapping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi ,
Setting the body to font size to 65% - 70% is a good start. this averages
out the differences between the browsers,
body {font-size: 70%;}
>From then on set your font sizes in ems.
h1 {font-size: 1.8em;}
And keep in mind that changes to the em size will cascade through
container objects.
Kind Regards,
Kane Tapping
Web Standards Developer
Web and Content Management Services
Griffith University. 4111. Australia.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630
"Sagnik Dey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25/05/2007 03:18 PM
Please respond to
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
To
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
cc
Subject
[WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em
Hi Guys,
I'm developing a website that have some standards defined. The font size
specified is 9pt. But due to accessibility standards I wanted to convert
that in % or em. Can anybody tell what do i need to use to view the same
size in different browsers?
--
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Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em
Hi ,
Setting the body to font size to 65% - 70% is a good start. this averages
out the differences between the browsers,
body { font-size: 70%;}
>From then on set your font sizes in ems.
h1 {font-size: 1.8em;}
And keep in mind that changes to the em size will cascade through
container objects.
Kind Regards,
Kane Tapping
Web Standards Developer
Web and Content Management Services
Griffith University. 4111. Australia.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630
"Sagnik Dey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25/05/2007 03:18 PM
Please respond to
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
To
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
cc
Subject
[WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em
Hi Guys,
I'm developing a website that have some standards defined. The font size
specified is 9pt. But due to accessibility standards I wanted to convert
that in % or em. Can anybody tell what do i need to use to view the same
size in different browsers?
--
:: Sagnik ::
***
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Re: [WSG] Map of Australia Image Map
Hi , Use css to change the offset of the background image, this technique can be combined with a text replacement (negative text indent in thie case) to provide accessible labels. A simple example can be seen in the navigation on this page: http://www.harmonynaturaltherapies.com/ which all comes from this html with no JS Home Acupuncture Massage Pamper About the magic comes from the css. Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 "Felisimina Jom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25/05/2007 11:44 AM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To cc Subject [WSG] Map of Australia Image Map Hi Everyone We are trying to put together a map of Australia where the states appear on hover and are clickable. As I understand it, the hover state can't be used in so I wonder if there is a way to display the States on hover without using javascript? Has anybody seen or created way of displaying States on hover using CSS only? Thanks in advance for your advice. Felisimina *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] dl v table for form layout
Hi , >although I think that placing the label text before the field instead of above makes it even more accessible for the avarage visitor, especcially if the form tends to be long All the research I have read claims labels being above the field results in the greatest useability. http://www.lukew.com/resources/articles/WebForms_LukeW.pdf I have had good success using the standard and tags to mark up my forms, the only drawback to this method is the increased vertical height, but again useability research has shown that if your page has the content/function your users are after scrolliong is not a issue. (and you should be cutting your forms down to the bare minimum anyway.) A short example: http://www.griffith.edu.au/cgi-bin/feedbackform.cgi Something else worth mentioning, i did have some issues with syling an array of radio or checkboxes, i.e you have a question, plus you have to label that particular input (with a prefilled answer), but this was neatly solved with a nested fieldset. example: http://www.griffith.edu.au/web-publishing/content-modules/radio-buttons.html example: http://www.griffith.edu.au/web-publishing/content-modules/checkboxes.html Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630 Sander Aarts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25/05/2007 10:22 AM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject Re: [WSG] dl v table for form layout Hello Mike, Mike at Green-Beast.com schreef: If one tries hard enough, it seems anything can be considered a list of sorts. That might be true, but I hope you will agree that it's easier to consider a form being a list than a whole page. A form is a list of controls and their related inputs, but we wouldn't use a list to organize form controls, so we'd use fieldsets/legends, labels and inputs. Using the Q&A scenario which you might use to try and justify the use of a DL to organize a form, let's swap out the elements with their appropriate ones (which need to be used anyway). DL = Fieldset ?? = Legend DT = Label (the "Q") DD = Input (the "A") I didn't say I use s instead of s. I use them too if needed, although I'm not a big fan of (from a layout point of view this must be the most annoying element). Btw, in some cases the is not the 'Q' but the 'A', as with checkboxes and radio buttons. And I think that originally s were meant to replace the 'Q'- in these cases. It seems to me the form has everything we need to properly organize it. Once it's made we can add then a few styles and layout rules with CSS to make it look good. But in most cases not as good as the designer whose designs I'll have to translate into templates wants it. Sometimes you just have not enough hooks for CSS or you'll have to add extra elements in order to make clear snippets that can be reused within the system of the site. And even though we would all like to create websites that use no more than the necessary semantic elements, I'm sure you're familiar with this problem if you work with designs that are not yours or for customers that want don't want an archaic form layout. And if you do need another element then I'd say a comes very close to the semantic structure of a form because of this Q&A thing. See a real (somewhat styled) example: http://green-beast.com/gbcf/ (Demo Form) Using this is satifies all of the needs of users and spec requirements. No definition list necessary or needed. Your demo form is a wonderful example of a web standards compliant and accessible form (although I think that placing the label text before the field instead of above makes it even more accessible for the avarage visitor, especcially if the form tends to be long), but it also has this basic layout. Which is fine, but not always what is requested. I certainly wasn't trying to make a case for using a list, any list, for a form. I know and you are forgiven ;-) Cheers. Sander *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] dl v table for form layout
Okay, so what CAN you use for forms? (and text area, select etc) and where neccessary the occasional The rest is the magic of CSS Example: html: http://www.griffith.edu.au/cgi-bin/feedbackform.cgi styles: http://www.griffith.edu.au/schema/corporate/common/css/glass.css - Kane Breton Slivka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23/05/2007 08:14 AM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject Re: [WSG] dl v table for form layout So when is this great festival of telling people what they can't do going to end? I'd like to know what you CAN do for forms? this is not a made up problem. Forms are difficult to style. -Breton *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] dl v table for form layout
My view: Use HTML for content Use CSS for presentation Use tables only for tabular data WCAG 1.0 has the following guidelines applicable to this question. 3.3 Use style sheets to control layout and presentation. 5.1 For data tables, identify row and column headers. 5.3 Do not use tables for layout unless the table makes sense when linearized. Otherwise, if the table does not make sense, provide an alternative equivalent (which may be a linearized version). 5.4 If a table is used for layout, do not use any structural markup for the purpose of visual formatting. 5.5 Provide summaries for tables. 10.2 Until user agents support explicit associations between labels and form controls, for all form controls with implicitly associated labels, ensure that the label is properly positioned. 10.3 Until user agents (including assistive technologies) render side-by-side text correctly, provide a linear text alternative (on the current page or some other) for all tables that lay out text in parallel, word-wrapped columns. 10.4 Until user agents handle empty controls correctly, include default, place-holding characters in edit boxes and text areas. 12.4 Associate labels explicitly with their controls. - Kane "Benedict Wyss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22/05/2007 02:15 PM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject [WSG] dl v table for form layout Hi all, I am having a discussion with colleagues here at work (won't mention our site as it stinks) about the best way forward for form layouts. I have one person saying he will continue to use tables till otherwise informed. I have another who uses none of the above, which you can imaging is not that good to look at with everything butting up against each other. His other suggestion was to add 's to move things about. I like to use the definition list with Labels. Now I know the dl I am using is not being used exactly as it was originally used (good point), but I say it is 100 times better than tables. Can I get a WSG response on the best format to layout a form. Cheers, Ben *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 100% height
Hi , http://www.fotografics.it/test/ Displays full height in IE7 on XP. Kind Regards, Kane Tapping Web Standards Developer Web and Content Management Services Griffith University. 4111. Australia. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +61 (0)7 373 57630 "Jean-Jacques Halans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14/05/2007 01:02 PM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject Re: [WSG] 100% height Looks good in IE6, Opera 9.20, and Firefox 2.0.0.3, all WinXP pro. On 5/12/07, Bob Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A version with the footer inside the div is up, plus it seems that by > adding important! to height: auto; in the original version it is now > working in Safari and Firefox. > I would appreciate feedback from a test in IE 6 and (especially) 7 > > http://www.fotografics.it/test/ > > > > Bob Schwartz wrote: > >> I have been at it all day and no luck. > >> > >> Anyone who would like to help can see some test pages at: > >> > >> http://www.fotografics.it/test/ > >> > >> The problem is explained on the pages. > >> > >> Bob > >> > > try placing your footer inside the wrapper. > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > -- Halans Jean-Jacques > http://www.halans.be > http://del.icio.us/halans > http://www.flickr.com/photos/halans/ > http://halans.vox.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE 7 body length problem
Hi ,
I found my IE7 will show the bug on its first load, but any refresh
afterwards will load with the body/colour covering the entire window.
(covering the window with another window will also remove the whitespace.)
A quick check with the IE7 developer toolbar shows the stretching
only as far as the content.
If would suggest setting a background colour for the .
btw the toolbar declares hasLayout = -1
Kind Regards,
Kane Tapping
Web Standards Developer
Web and Content Management Services
Griffith University. 4111. Australia.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: +61 (0)7 373 57630
On 5/9/07, Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On my site, http://christianmontoya.net/
> > the body does not extend past the content in IE 7 on initial page
> > load, so the background doesn't reach the bottom of the screen. I know
> > there's a simple fix for this, but I can't remember it... can someone
> > help me out? Thanks in advance.
>
> Hi Christian,
> I don't see this behavior in ie7 WinXP Pro
> But I think you should be able to fix what you describe by giving layout
to
> some element in there.
> Did you try: body {zoom:1}
Couldn't see this issue on my IE7 too (are you using a beta?). Thierry
is right, the element needs to be given layout.
http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
enjoy...
Karl
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