Re: [WSG] :: Convince - Webstandards are better than tables ::
Hi there Amrinder, This should help you out: http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200512/ten_reasons_to_learn_and_use_web_standards/ Regards, Schalk Amrinder wrote: Hi I have a client whom I have to convince that Web standards (tableless layouts) are better than table based layouts. Please help me with info/links. Regards, Amrinder *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Question about accessibility
Very good advice Rob. Rob Enslin wrote: Hi Jason, Why don't you turn the convincing angle up-side-down? Instead of pulling the 'accessibility' pitch focus on the performance and customizability of having a CSS-driven navigation (accessibility will follow naturally). Perhaps you could prepare two versions of a similar looking navigation (one image one css) and run a performance test. Show the results and hopefully convince your client to choose wisely? Only a thought. Rob 2008/8/27 Jason Pruim [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Good Morning everyone! I have a client that wants me to write his navigation mostly as a picture and then use image maps to get to the actual links. I am wondering, how would I go about convincing my client that this isn't the best way to do it? I personally think that some nice text links, styled properly with CSS would look just as good if not better then image maps. Oh, and to put it into context, it's a picture rating site so I don't know that Blind users are going to be too much of a concern for him since they can't see what the main part of the site is for. Any info I could get about this would be wonderful! Thanks everyone! -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 11287 James St Holland, MI 49424 www.raoset.com http://www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- / Rob Enslin / enslin.co.uk http://enslin.co.uk / twitter.com/robenslin http://twitter.com/robenslin / +44759 052 8890 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date: 2008/08/22 06:48 AM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] H1 and the img tag
Hi there everyone, I was wondering. There is a general practice to use text replacement when it comes to company logo's on websites. If one does not want to use this practice, would there be any objection to wrapping the company logo image with an H1 one tag? I am thinking of this more in terms of the front page, on inner pages I would think the main topic of the page is the one that should be marked up with H1. What is your thoughts and would you recommend image replacement instead? Kind Regards, Schalk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] H1 and the img tag
Thanks Paul, Makes sense to me as well. Regards, Schalk Paul Bennett wrote: Hi Schalk, Glad you raised this. We built a new section of our site a while ago which required different treatment from our normal text h1's. I looked at the image replacement route and found the approaches kludgy and overwrought. I ended up doing exactly what you said: h1a img src= alt=Page Heading ../h1 Looks fine, and the pages revert back to the standard h1 text style when images are off. You can see the results here: http://tinyurl.com/5b3bwg The image inside the h1 is simple, accessible and effective. Go with your gut :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date: 2008/08/22 06:48 AM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] H1 and the img tag
Hi all, BTW, for those interested I am using the website at http://www.volume4.com/ as a case study in progressive enhancement and graceful degradation. Your feedback is much appreciated. Regards, Schalk Paul Bennett wrote: Hi Schalk, Glad you raised this. We built a new section of our site a while ago which required different treatment from our normal text h1's. I looked at the image replacement route and found the approaches kludgy and overwrought. I ended up doing exactly what you said: h1a img src= alt=Page Heading ../h1 Looks fine, and the pages revert back to the standard h1 text style when images are off. You can see the results here: http://tinyurl.com/5b3bwg The image inside the h1 is simple, accessible and effective. Go with your gut :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date: 2008/08/22 06:48 AM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] H1 and the img tag
Thanks everyone for your feedback, it definitely gives me something to think about. Regards, Schalk Darren Lovelock wrote: I'm not understanding why you would use a logo/img as an h1 tag? Unless you wanted to use a nice anti-aliased font for the h1 text? If that's the case then I would just use sifr. SEO-wise you could only implement this on the homepage, otherwise you would have a duplicated h1 on all your web pages (providing the image had the same alt text). I wouldn't recommend using different alt text either when using the same image sitewide, as search engines may see that as keyword stuffing. I would keep them separate and have the alt text on the logo as your company name. Then have unique h1's as normal text on each page. I used to use a div with text in it for the logo, then css to add a background image and text indent to move the text off-screen. I changed back to an img tag as the alt text is more powerful for SEO purposes. Darren Lovelock Munky Online Web Design http://www.munkyonline.co.uk T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Bennett Sent: 25 August 2008 23:07 To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] H1 and the img tag Hi Michael, While that is possible, unfortunately the h1 text doesn't display when images are off and css is still in use. This is the issue many image replacement techniques sought to address. Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Acceptable autoplay of music
Hi James, To my mind, the user always needs to initiate it. Regards, Schalk James Leslie wrote: Hi, This is a more best practices question than strictly standards, but I *think* it is on-topic, apologies if not and please mail me off-list if you feel that is more appropriate. I have a band for a client who are requesting that on the homepage loading a music player starts automatically. Do people think this is acceptable for a bands website or would you think that you should always get the user to initiate playback? Thanks James No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1613 - Release Date: 2008/08/15 05:58 AM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web Standards and Design Patterns in Web Applications
Hi there Tony, There is some really useful articles at http://css.dzone.com/. You might especially find Presentation Layer Accessibility and AJAX and Screen Readers - Content Access Issues very useful. Regards, Schalk Steven Workman wrote: Hi Anthony, I've always found through usability testing, that people use the highest level of navigation to get back to the start of a task (generally the tabs). Using the first pattern plus a body ID and CSS to highlight the current tab (and remove the a:hover cursor) will give the same effect as removing the link whilst allowing users to click on the tab if required (which they almost certainly will do). If you use the second pattern, be sure there's a link to the top-level of navigation inside that page, or a user will have to visit a different section in order to get back to the top level of the section they're in. Steve On 12/05/2008, *Anthony Green* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have any guides to developing standards based/accessible web applications like Basecamp ? For example a common pattern for website navigation is the tab list of links ul lia href ...Cats/li lia href ...Dogs/li lia href ...Mice/li /ul However web applications often copy the navigation pattern from desktop apps of having the tab to the resource your viewing not a link # .dogs.htm ul lia href ...Cats/li liemDogs/em/li lia href ...Mice/li /ul Is the second pattern acceptable ? Other questions on building web standards applications might be : how do you direct assistive device users to errors in forms or how do you handle ajax updates to items on the page. Any thoughts/blog posts/podcasts on the subject welcome. Tony *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1427 - Release Date: 2008/05/11 01:08 PM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Recommended screen size
Hi there Tim, From the stats (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_display.asp) I would say go for 1024x768 but, with that said, whenever possible (often determined by client requirements and likes/dislikes :) ) go for a liquid layout that would enable your site to expand and contract based on the browser size. I think what a lot of people forget is that even though the users screen resolution might be 1024x768 or even higher, this does not mean that the user has their browser window maximized to the full height/width. I know especially on Mac this is very true. So to my mind, go for 1024x768 but keep the above in mind and go for liquid when at all possible. Kind Regards Schalk Tim Offenstein wrote: Anyone have a recommendation on what size screen to use as a baseline when designing for a new site? 800x600 or 1024x768 or something else? Thanks in advance. -Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Content Management issue ?
Hey there All, This seems to be a huge problem on the web today. I am in the process of building a CMS that will be from the ground up built to standards compliant and accessible. Also, the big issue is to ensure that whatever the CMS outputs abides by the same rules. The project is being developed as an open source project so anyone that wishes to know more and want to join in and help in the building of the CMS is more then welcome. It is being hosted on code.google.com/p/alliedbridge Kind Regards Schalk Nick Roper wrote: Hi Mark, Have you looked at Karova? www.karova.com It is XML/XSLT based, so that may be an issue if you want a PHP based solution, but you can get in and edit the XSLTs and of course CSS, so it is pretty flexible and compliant. Not sure about the Protx support. One thing to be aware of is that it is a hosted solution, and not available to install on your own server as far as I know. It has been used for some large clients such as World Wildlife Fund (not our client unfortunately), and we used it to build a store at the following URL if you want a look: http://retailstore.haptic.co.uk I think they were working on a PHP-based version, and are working on more friendly URLs - so might be worth a look. Cheers, Nick *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] alternative to target=_blank in xhtml 1.1
The other alternative is to use Roger Johansson's jstarget. http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200610/opening_new_windows_with_javascript_version_12/ Ricky Onsman wrote: I can't help thinking we're fighting against one of the most basic instructions web users work with: all you have to do with a link is click on it. I agree that it would be useful if users knew the full capabilities of their software, let alone what their mouse can do. But I don't believe they do. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gleitzman Sent: Sunday, 25 February 2007 4:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] alternative to target=_blank in xhtml 1.1 Gallagher, Robin wrote: Users of the search engine on my intranet site wold like to have the results open in a new page. Can anyone suggest a valid method to do this in xhtml 1.1? Umm... teach 'em how to use the software? A good browser allows the choice of a new window - or tab - with a modifier key added to the mouse click. If all else fails, or you tell us that they're stuck on IE/Win, then right-click Open in new window. N ___ omnivision. websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
