RE: [WSG] html design - best practices

[TN38 [Admin]]

It's a valid point actually. 

DIVitis and SPANitis are rife and elements can normally be styled using
inherent selectors. The fact you have the text wrapped in  means you can
approach the CSS from with #container a

-Original Message-

Think twice before using a span

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RE: [WSG] html design - best practices

[TN38 [Admin]]

Semantic = meaning.

What is the meaning of highlighting the text?

If it's a design decision the use 
If it's a meaning decision use  or 

Think of  as a rise in pitch when reading something out to someone.
Think of  as slow and controlled while pointing your finger kinda
speech.

-Original Message-

here's my question.  i have a page with text that i want highlighted.  i 
currently have the text in "text" and styled with css.  what is 
the best practice, semantically, to achieve this, as  is not 
what i want, because i don't want someone to get yelled at by their 
screen reader.  i guess what i am looking to do is emphasize the text so 
it will stand out on the page and be treated the same by a screen 
reader.  is this what the  tag is for?


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[WSG] Interview: BBC & TBL

[TN38 [Admin]]

Just a heads up to an interesting article about the big man himself and the
future of the web; due for broadcast on the UK's BBC2 tonight 22:30 BST.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4132752.stm

Eddie
http://blog.tn38.net


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RE: [WSG] My life as an 800x600 leper (was: Site Check: Broadleaf)

[TN38 [Admin]]

It's not starting to, it always has been.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kay Smoljak
Sent: 26 July 2005 13:14
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] My life as an 800x600 leper (was: Site Check: Broadleaf)


I think accessibility is starting to be as much about accommodating
*any* browsing situation as much as accommodating disabilities.

-- 
Kay Smoljak
http://kay.smoljak.com/


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RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf

[TN38 [Admin]]

Quote: only from lists such as this where people impose limits
without thinking about how networks are evolving.

 

You’re assuming
everyone has DSL at low contention. As you mention, networks are evolving, more
so wirelessly where bandwidth is even more of a premium which is justification
enough to serve lightweight pages.

 

Quote: I just fail to understand people who are
concerned about pages under 150k.

 

Sorry bud but 150Kb is
just too heavy. Fact!

 

By all means create a
heavy front page as you’re the developer but don’t forget the high
bandwidth disclaimer in the footer of the template.

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance)
Sent: 25 July 2005 10:16
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Site Check:
Broadleaf



 

Mugur,

 

> I hope you are
not upset with me.

 

Not at all. J

 

I just fail to
understand people who are concerned about pages under 150k. Until about 2 years
ago, 50k was my limit. However since then, I’ve been happy to add about 50k
per year to that limit in line with the uptake of broadband, at least in Australia.
Across numerous websites, I’ve never actually had a complaint from a user
/ client, only from lists such as this where people impose limits without
thinking about how networks are evolving.



 

 

Thanks,

 

Tatham
 Oddie

Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea

www.fueladvance.com



 

RE: [WSG] headings and accessibility norms

[TN38 [Admin]]

Too
quick Bert, just what I was going to post.

 

6
headings are more than enough. I’ve never gone past 4 to be honest.

 

-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bert Doorn
Sent: 21 July 2005 14:49
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] headings and accessibility norms

 

 

Look
at it as an outline and perhaps it becomes clearer.

 

H1
Main heading

   
H2 Section heading

   
H2 Section heading

  
H3 Sub-section heading

   H4
Sub-Sub-section heading

   
H2 Section heading

H1
Another Main heading?

 

 

RE: [WSG] headings and accessibility norms

[TN38 [Admin]]

Headers
have no defined meaning. They create structure. H1 doesn’t mean primary.
H2 doesn’t mean sub etc… but for Joe to say that you can forget
keeping order is not one his of best ideas.

 

“What’s
wrong with applying order to the real world?”

 

He
is right in that you can skip levels with certain assistive tools but then the hierarchy
of the page has to be learnt and isn’t presented in a predictable way.
Stick with correct order and nesting as accessibility isn’t always about
people, devices have to understand the web too.

 

As
soon as there is freedom of headers, what else can developers slack on? Keep it
tidy.

 



Eddie

http://blog.tn38.net/ 

 

-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 21 July 2005 14:18
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] headings and accessibility norms

 

Hello
list,

 

I'm
having some troubles in understanding the standards of

webaccessibility
according to the headings.

 

On
one side, there is the point of W3 saying:

"Since
some users skim through a document by navigating its headings, it

is
important to use them appropriately to convey document structure. Users

should
order heading elements properly. For example, in HTML, H2 elements

should
follow H1 elements, H3 elements should follow H2 elements, etc.

Content
developers should not "skip" levels (e.g., H1 directly to H3). Do

not
use headings to create font effects; use style sheets to change font

styles
for example."

 

(http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#document-headers)

 

 

On
the other hand, Joe Clark's book "Building Accessible Websites" says

about
the use of the :

 

"Styled
headings

Screen
readers and the like let you select the order in which you’d like

to
tab through elements, but the fundaments lie in HTML. The Web Content

Accessibility
Guidelines tell us to use heading elements in strict

numerical
order – , then, if necessary, 
through


in that sequence. That dictum suits androids and Vulcans quite

well,
but here in the real world you can skip intervening levels and you

don’t
have to start at . I am telling you that you can defy the

WCAG
in this limited way. You must not, however, use heading elements in

anything
but ascending order. "

 

(http://www.joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/Chapter07.html)

 

 

I've
got two problems complying those norms:

 

I
would like to maintain a certain homogeneity through the site, having a

unique
 for all the pages, and a  at the homepage using it for the

same
level of heading on the next pages. But the guidelines tell not to

skip
any , and it might happen that a certain page won't have a 

for
example.

 

Another
doubt I have is the fact that  always should be used in

ascending
way. But what if there are several repeating sections containing

subtitles?

F.i.

People
at work

People
working at the office

..

People
working at the factory

..

 

People
at home

Friends

..

Family

..

 

I
hope I make myself clear...

Anyone
who can say anything about this question?

Thank
you very much.

 

Regards,
Esther

 

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RE: [WSG] Browser hijacking for usability

[TN38 [Admin]]

Title: Message








Not to mention you’re
talking IE/Win only which is a dwindling market.

 

Sounds worse than
ActiveX to me J

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Swabey (Lafinboy
Productions)
Sent: 18 July 2005 12:00
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Browser
hijacking for usability



 



Jamie Mason >> I've been thinking about whether it would help to
automatically fix these problems by using registry keys, for example.





 





 



Ask the question of yourself - if you
were instructed by a website to run a file that changed registry settings on
your pc, would you do it?

 

However appealing the idea may sound,
and however easy it makes things for your users, messing with the registry is a
risky business at the best of times. I would assume that 99.99% of users
wouldn't touch it.

 

Regards 


Scott Swabey
General Manager

Lafinboy Productions
:: website design :: website
development :: graphic design

e  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t   +61 (0)415 193 126
w  www.lafinboy.com



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Sent: Monday, 18 July 2005 8:34 PM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: [WSG] Browser hijacking
for usability

 

Hi All,

I've had an idea recently I wanted
to ask about, as it's slightly shady, but I think it has some value.


I'm near
the end of a redesign and am working on the help section currently, there's
some troubleshooting advice on pop-ups, which although don't really apply
anymore due to my removing them and/or using accessible popup code, am keeping
the articles for...

...

-
start contents of a registry file -- 
REGEDIT4 

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet
Explorer\New Windows\Allow\] 
"*.yourdomainaddress.com"=hex:

- end contents of a registry
file -- 
  
...Would add your site to the allow
list for pop ups in ie. This and other browsing problems could potentially be
fixed very easily.

 

I like
this because users just run the file and they're away, but I'm cringing in the
same way you probably are when reading..it all feels a bit shady doesn't it?

What do
you think? 

 

Jamie
Mason: Design 
// Skysports.com 
, Central House, Beckwith Knowle, Otley
  Road, Harrogate, HG3 1UF