Re: [WSG] IE Reverse Indent ?

[Kevin Ross]

Again, gentlemen... Thanks VERY MUCH for your help.Regards,Kevin.On 3/9/06, Paul Novitski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:At 08:23 PM 3/8/2006, Ben Buchanan wrote:>That's pretty much the rub of it all, for me! :) If only Microsoft had
>created a proprietary comment system for CSS, at least it would have>been useful without so many downsides.That so typifies Microsoft's schizophrenia.  They're such a largeorganization, they must have hundreds if not thousands of creative
directions happening simultaneously: hordes of brilliant geeks,impossible to wrangle.  It's such a shame that they weren't on theweb standards page early enough to foresee the importance ofseparating presentation from content from logic.  Convert the latest
Word or Excel document to HTML and you'll see the worst practices rampant.Earlier this century I scrambled from the leaky rowboat of ASP ontothe running board of the steam locomotive of ASP.Net, thenimmediately realized I was only penetrating farther into the murky
tunnel of death.  The .Net technology seemed to merge logic withmarkup and style even more densely than before, keyed particularly toIE's quirks, making it more difficult, not easier, to achieve decentweb standards with Microsoft's proprietary technology.  Who knows,
perhaps I was short-sighted and those who have plunged deeply into.Net have found ways to separate them cleanly, but I don't for amoment regret my decision to leap from the sinking Microsoft tankerto the skimming PHP skiff.  PHP doesn't require clean separation but
it sure as hell helps us achieve it.I wonder how our work would be different today if the designers ofCSS had foreseen the chaos that's resulted from our trying to getstyles to work cross-browser.  Would they have built
browser-version-conditional branching into CSS?  I doubtit.  Browser-sniffers are only as dependable as the browsers'willingness not to spoof, which is to say not much.  And we'd stillbe hacking our way around browsers written early enough not to know
how to respond to the conditional branching.  Back to square one.It's unnerving to realize that the crazy-quilt world we live in mayactually be the best of all probable worlds.Paul**
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Re: [WSG] IE Reverse Indent ?

[Paul Novitski]

At 08:23 PM 3/8/2006, Ben Buchanan wrote:

That's pretty much the rub of it all, for me! :) If only Microsoft had
created a proprietary comment system for CSS, at least it would have
been useful without so many downsides.



That so typifies Microsoft's schizophrenia.  They're such a large 
organization, they must have hundreds if not thousands of creative 
directions happening simultaneously: hordes of brilliant geeks, 
impossible to wrangle.  It's such a shame that they weren't on the 
web standards page early enough to foresee the importance of 
separating presentation from content from logic.  Convert the latest 
Word or Excel document to HTML and you'll see the worst practices rampant.


Earlier this century I scrambled from the leaky rowboat of ASP onto 
the running board of the steam locomotive of ASP.Net, then 
immediately realized I was only penetrating farther into the murky 
tunnel of death.  The .Net technology seemed to merge logic with 
markup and style even more densely than before, keyed particularly to 
IE's quirks, making it more difficult, not easier, to achieve decent 
web standards with Microsoft's proprietary technology.  Who knows, 
perhaps I was short-sighted and those who have plunged deeply into 
.Net have found ways to separate them cleanly, but I don't for a 
moment regret my decision to leap from the sinking Microsoft tanker 
to the skimming PHP skiff.  PHP doesn't require clean separation but 
it sure as hell helps us achieve it.


I wonder how our work would be different today if the designers of 
CSS had foreseen the chaos that's resulted from our trying to get 
styles to work cross-browser.  Would they have built 
browser-version-conditional branching into CSS?  I doubt 
it.  Browser-sniffers are only as dependable as the browsers' 
willingness not to spoof, which is to say not much.  And we'd still 
be hacking our way around browsers written early enough not to know 
how to respond to the conditional branching.  Back to square one.


It's unnerving to realize that the crazy-quilt world we live in may 
actually be the best of all probable worlds.


Paul 


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Re: [WSG] IE Reverse Indent ?

[Ben Buchanan]

> ... is there a way to put that whole section in my Style sheet file?  Or in
> a seperate file so I can maintain the rules  centrally?

That's pretty much the rub of it all, for me! :) If only Microsoft had
created a proprietary comment system for CSS, at least it would have
been useful without so many downsides.

Ben

--
--- 
--- The future has arrived; it's just not
--- evenly distributed. - William Gibson
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RE: [WSG] IE Reverse Indent ?

[Jason Turnbull]

Kevin Ross wrote:

> is there a way to put that whole section in my Style sheet file?  Or in a
> seperate file so I can maintain the rules  centrally?

Move all your styles into a CSS file ie6.css and just link to the style
sheet as you normally would but within the conditional comment



Regards
Jason


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Re: [WSG] IE Reverse Indent ?

[Lachlan Hunt]

Kevin Ross wrote:

On the topic of the IE6 specific rules...

  

... is there a way to put that whole section in my Style sheet file?


The conditional comment needs to go within the HTML, since it is an HTML 
comment.  There are no conditional comments in CSS.  You could place it 
in an include file of some sort, which gets included in every file. 
For that, you could use SSI or, if you're using PHP, ASP, JSP, or 
something like that, you can use their own include functionality.


--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/

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Re: [WSG] IE Reverse Indent ?

[Kevin Ross]

Thank you, Gentlemen, for your help.  It is very much appreciated !On the topic of the IE6 specific rules...  ... is there a way to put that whole section in my Style sheet file?  Or in a seperate file so I can maintain the rules  centrally? Regards,Kevin.
On 3/8/06, Jason Turnbull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:> > ul a, ul, li, #content_home {height: 1%;} /* Holly hack fix for IE> > bugs */>> That is a bit radical... giving all those element 'layout' can> possibly cause more problems than it fixes.
> In this case:> /* - hide form IE Mac - \*/> * html #content_contain {height:1%}> /* - end hiding - */> ought to do nicely.> (and served only to IE 6 and below. That 3px jog thing is reportedly
> fixed in IE 7 alpha0).Your right Philippe it is radical, I added to styles within IE conditionalcomments that already existed.Philippe has a point about IE7, currently your conditional comments target
all versions of IE and should only need IE6 and below: 

RE: [WSG] IE Reverse Indent ?

[Jason Turnbull]

Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
> > ul a, ul, li, #content_home {height: 1%;} /* Holly hack fix for IE
> > bugs */
> 
> That is a bit radical... giving all those element 'layout' can
> possibly cause more problems than it fixes.
> In this case:
> /* - hide form IE Mac - \*/
> * html #content_contain {height:1%}
> /* - end hiding - */
> ought to do nicely.
> (and served only to IE 6 and below. That 3px jog thing is reportedly
> fixed in IE 7 alpha0).

Your right Philippe it is radical, I added to styles within IE conditional
comments that already existed. 

Philippe has a point about IE7, currently your conditional comments target
all versions of IE and should only need IE6 and below: 

Re: [WSG] IE Reverse Indent ?

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Mar 8, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Jason Turnbull wrote:


http://www.hudsonantiquecarclub.com/index.html
IE6 adds an reverse indent just under the header "Monthly Meetings"
(Paragraph starting Rudy's...)
Is this to do with the thumbnail to the left?


Known as the 3 pixel text-jog
http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/threepxtest.html

Easily fixed by adding #content_home to the IE specific style you have
already:

ul a, ul, li, #content_home {height: 1%;} /* Holly hack fix for IE  
bugs */


That is a bit radical... giving all those element 'layout' can  
possibly cause more problems than it fixes.

In this case:
/* - hide form IE Mac - \*/
* html #content_contain {height:1%}
/* - end hiding - */
ought to do nicely.
(and served only to IE 6 and below. That 3px jog thing is reportedly  
fixed in IE 7 alpha0).


Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh




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RE: [WSG] IE Reverse Indent ?

[Jason Turnbull]

Kevin Ross wrote:
> http://www.hudsonantiquecarclub.com/index.html
> IE6 adds an reverse indent just under the header "Monthly Meetings" 
> (Paragraph starting Rudy's...)
> Is this to do with the thumbnail to the left?

Known as the 3 pixel text-jog
http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/threepxtest.html

Easily fixed by adding #content_home to the IE specific style you have
already:

ul a, ul, li, #content_home {height: 1%;} /* Holly hack fix for IE bugs */

Regards
Jason


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RE: [WSG] IE Reverse Indent ?

[Scott Swabey]

Kevin wrote
>On this page...
>http://www.hudsonantiquecarclub.com/index.html
>IE6 adds an reverse indent just under the header "Monthly Meetings"

Hi Kevin

Adding a couple extra pixels to the #content_home right margin should
fix things up. 
 

Regards

Scott Swabey
Design & Development Director

Lafinboy Productions
www.lafinboy.com

www.thought-after.com 

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