Re: [WSG] SEO and headers order
Caleb, It just semantics problem that h1-h6 are not in their logical order. But Google still can read the sources well. -- Regards, Dani Iswara http://daniiswara.net/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] SEO and headers order
Hi guys, Just to clarify. Google reads the sourcecode. In the order the sourcecode is presented. Of course you can reposition with css. That doesn't change the order of the sourcecode. Google doesn't generally request the CSS file (check your logs) - unless other flags are indicated (e.g positioning text off page, display: none etc) so it had no idea of column display rendering. Web Standards is Content= X/HTML; presentation = CSS; behaviour etc I've done the SEO on some of the biggest publisher/ ecommerce sites in Australia, over the past 8 years, and have never seen a Google issue with css repositioning in a 2 or 3 column layout. Check most newspaper etc sites. Here's a really old example - my personal hobby site. Google: Austin Healey 3000 and view the cache of the site http://www.myaustinhealey.com. Then look at the 'text only version' in the Google cache. It's a really old 3 column css layout from 2002. Centre column first in the source. I'd post the cache links, but I'm sending this from an iPhone, and I'm still waiting for 'cut and paste' functionality Sigh. Chris www.cogentis.com.au On 15/04/2009, at 7:10 PM, Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.com wrote: All these things are 'within reason'. I have seen SEO agencies advise putting the main content immediately after body and then repositioning everything else with CSS into right places. This is likely not to be possible on some designs and Google is smart enough to sift through the initial junk on the page to get through to the main content also. There's another argument that says that your main navigation help Google index other pages on the site, so if you are putting that after the main content you are making deeper indexing of your site a little harder for Google, as it has to do more work to follow the links. Hence nothing is black and white here. Perhaps you should try both solutions for a while and see if it makes a difference. If you can't be bothered, I would go with 'regular source order', whatever that is for your site. Thanks, Jason PS: Also, if you need more SEO advice let me know. On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Rob Enslin robens...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Caleb, I might be wrong but anecdotal evidence suggests order is not an 'issue' for bots scanning your site. I'm other words by in large so long as your code is structured correctly your h1, h2 etc will be indexed appropriately. The only caveat/exception is non-valid code. Also, long, heavy and bloated code where important tag info is burried way down the page, can impact on indexability - stuff that's simply not best practice. -- rob // Rob Enslin // twitter.com/robenslin On 15 Apr 2009, at 06:21, Caleb Wong carbon.ca...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have a SEO question regarding how search engines scans a website. Say for example if I have a site where it has a 3 column layout. Column left and column right appears before the middle column area, and within column left, right there are h2, h3 tags; within the middle column there is a h1 tag. The source code goes something like this... column_right h2 /column_right column_left h2 /column_left column_middle h1 /column_middle So would search engines pick up on the h1 header that appears at the bottom of the page, or picks up on the first header (regardless its weight) it sees. Cheers Caleb *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] SEO and headers order
Hello, Search engine will crawl column right first than column left and than column middle. still you can use lynx browser to check how search engine will crawl your website. You can get that browser from Google webmaster guideline. all the best let me know if you need any help related to SEO - Original Message - From: Caleb Wong To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 10:51 AM Subject: [WSG] SEO and headers order Hi, I have a SEO question regarding how search engines scans a website. Say for example if I have a site where it has a 3 column layout. Column left and column right appears before the middle column area, and within column left, right there are h2, h3 tags; within the middle column there is a h1 tag. The source code goes something like this... column_right h2 /column_right column_left h2 /column_left column_middle h1 /column_middle So would search engines pick up on the h1 header that appears at the bottom of the page, or picks up on the first header (regardless its weight) it sees. Cheers Caleb *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] SEO and headers order
Hi Caleb, I might be wrong but anecdotal evidence suggests order is not an 'issue' for bots scanning your site. I'm other words by in large so long as your code is structured correctly your h1, h2 etc will be indexed appropriately. The only caveat/exception is non-valid code. Also, long, heavy and bloated code where important tag info is burried way down the page, can impact on indexability - stuff that's simply not best practice. -- rob // Rob Enslin // twitter.com/robenslin On 15 Apr 2009, at 06:21, Caleb Wong carbon.ca...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have a SEO question regarding how search engines scans a website. Say for example if I have a site where it has a 3 column layout. Column left and column right appears before the middle column area, and within column left, right there are h2, h3 tags; within the middle column there is a h1 tag. The source code goes something like this... column_right h2 /column_right column_left h2 /column_left column_middle h1 /column_middle So would search engines pick up on the h1 header that appears at the bottom of the page, or picks up on the first header (regardless its weight) it sees. Cheers Caleb *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] SEO and headers order
Whilst on the subject - is there any SEO guys out there looking for perm or contract work?? I have 3 open positions. Cheers, -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Rob Enslin Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:23 PM To: carbon.ca...@gmail.com Cc: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO and headers order Hi Caleb, I might be wrong but anecdotal evidence suggests order is not an 'issue' for bots scanning your site. I'm other words by in large so long as your code is structured correctly your h1, h2 etc will be indexed appropriately. The only caveat/exception is non-valid code. Also, long, heavy and bloated code where important tag info is burried way down the page, can impact on indexability - stuff that's simply not best practice. -- rob // Rob Enslin // twitter.com/robenslin On 15 Apr 2009, at 06:21, Caleb Wong carbon.ca...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have a SEO question regarding how search engines scans a website. Say for example if I have a site where it has a 3 column layout. Column left and column right appears before the middle column area, and within column left, right there are h2, h3 tags; within the middle column there is a h1 tag. The source code goes something like this... column_right h2 /column_right column_left h2 /column_left column_middle h1 /column_middle So would search engines pick up on the h1 header that appears at the bottom of the page, or picks up on the first header (regardless its weight) it sees. Cheers Caleb *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] SEO and headers order
All these things are 'within reason'. I have seen SEO agencies advise putting the main content immediately after body and then repositioning everything else with CSS into right places. This is likely not to be possible on some designs and Google is smart enough to sift through the initial junk on the page to get through to the main content also. There's another argument that says that your main navigation help Google index other pages on the site, so if you are putting that after the main content you are making deeper indexing of your site a little harder for Google, as it has to do more work to follow the links. Hence nothing is black and white here. Perhaps you should try both solutions for a while and see if it makes a difference. If you can't be bothered, I would go with 'regular source order', whatever that is for your site. Thanks, Jason PS: Also, if you need more SEO advice let me know. On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Rob Enslin robens...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Caleb, I might be wrong but anecdotal evidence suggests order is not an 'issue' for bots scanning your site. I'm other words by in large so long as your code is structured correctly your h1, h2 etc will be indexed appropriately. The only caveat/exception is non-valid code. Also, long, heavy and bloated code where important tag info is burried way down the page, can impact on indexability - stuff that's simply not best practice. -- rob // Rob Enslin // twitter.com/robenslin On 15 Apr 2009, at 06:21, Caleb Wong carbon.ca...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have a SEO question regarding how search engines scans a website. Say for example if I have a site where it has a 3 column layout. Column left and column right appears before the middle column area, and within column left, right there are h2, h3 tags; within the middle column there is a h1 tag. The source code goes something like this... column_right h2 /column_right column_left h2 /column_left column_middle h1 /column_middle So would search engines pick up on the h1 header that appears at the bottom of the page, or picks up on the first header (regardless its weight) it sees. Cheers Caleb *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] SEO and headers order
Hi, I have a SEO question regarding how search engines scans a website. Say for example if I have a site where it has a 3 column layout. Column left and column right appears before the middle column area, and within column left, right there are h2, h3 tags; within the middle column there is a h1 tag. The source code goes something like this... column_right h2 /column_right column_left h2 /column_left column_middle h1 /column_middle Caleb, Try this and give it a go: http://css-tricks.com/navigation-markup-after-content/ Hope this helps. Elias Abunassar eliasabunas...@gmail.com http://eliasabunassar.com +--+ more info about webdesign-l: http://webdesign-L.com/ to unsubscribe: http://webdesign-L.com/mailman/listinfo/list If you had read the list policies: http://webdesign-L.com/policies/ you'd know not to top post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting That means that if this line here is in your reply, you lose. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] SEO and headers order
I will have to chip in again: - I would stay away from the 'repositioning' approach because of template flexibility issues - Depending on what type of a site you are working on this may or may not be relevant or work at all (see this topic for how to think in terms of types of web sites, rather than web as one generic thing http://www.flexewebs.com/semantix/general/web-site-types/ ) - I have seen this approach deployed on smallish tourism / holiday sites, but never on mega commercial sites which earn £10M+ per week, so it's not a black and white matter - It's really down to you to decide what you want to do with regards to this aspect as this is not a make or break matter for your SEO efforts. Thanks, Jason http://flexewebs.com/semantix On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 12:44 AM, ewen.h...@dhs.vic.gov.au wrote: Caleb, You should be careful to present the information so that people who do not use CSS can understand the flow of the document as well (screen readers etc). I am assuming that this is a standard right and left nav with content in the middle so it would be less of an issue in this instance but it is something that can disenfranchise. Regards, *Ewen Hill *, Project Manager, Web Communications Unit Department of Human Services, Level 16, 50 Lonsdale Street Melbourne Victoria 3000 * 9096 0440* _ This email contains confidential information intended only for the person named above and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or use of this information is prohibited. The Department provides no guarantee that this communication is free of virus or that it has not been intercepted or interfered with. If you have received this email in error or have any other concerns regarding its transmission, please notify postmas...@dhs.vic.gov.au _ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.flexewebs.com/semantix www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] SEO and headers order
Caleb, You should be careful to present the information so that people who do not use CSS can understand the flow of the document as well (screen readers etc). I am assuming that this is a standard right and left nav with content in the middle so it would be less of an issue in this instance but it is something that can disenfranchise. Regards, Ewen Hill , Project Manager, Web Communications Unit Department of Human Services, Level 16, 50 Lonsdale Street Melbourne Victoria 3000 9096 0440 _ This email contains confidential information intended only for the person named above and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or use of this information is prohibited. The Department provides no guarantee that this communication is free of virus or that it has not been intercepted or interfered with. If you have received this email in error or have any other concerns regarding its transmission, please notify postmas...@dhs.vic.gov.au _ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
