Re: [WSG] HTML email - mac testers please
Apple's Mail.app is probably going to be the most used program for OS X users. Since the Jaguar edition of OS X (10.2) it's used WebKit for the rendering, which is the KHTML engine used in Safari. If I remember right, Jaguar users are limited to Safari 1.0, and Panther has 1.1 and 1.2 available. I'm not sure what the Mail.app uses in 10.1.5 or earlier versions of OS X, probably IE's engine though. Behind that will probably be Microsoft Entourage (IE 5.2 engine). Outlook Express would only be used by OS 9 or earlier users, there's no OS X version. Eudora would be popular among some, probably those who used it in the past and wanted to stat with something familiar. On Jun 10, 2004, at 00:05, Mark Stanton wrote: I guess I'm just interested what rendering engine do 90% on a MAC use when they look at an HTML email and then testing in that environment. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] HTML email - mac testers please
IMHO that testing is not correct because you should test web sites in web browsers and therefore you should test HTML email in different Email clients eg: Outlook, Outlook Express, Lotus Notes, Novell Groupwise, Eudora, Mozilla Mail etc AFAIK (untested): * Outlook / Outlook Express will use the rendering engine of IE on that machine * Mozilla Mail uses the Gecko rendering engine independent of which Mozilla browsers are installed on the PC I dont know about others, but I do know that HTML mail is fraught with formatting difficulties. It may be wise to send emails in dual HTML/Text format, I think this is possible so that Text only email clients see the text and HTML capable clients see the HTML. This method will obviously increase (roughly double) the emails size. -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 403 8000 27 Mark Stanton wrote: Hi All I've got an HTML email that I need to prepare for a client. The mockup can be seen at: HTML: http://mark.gruden.com/beerworth/ CSS: http://mark.gruden.com/beerworth/lib/main.css We didn't design it, we just did the HTML CSS work. An initial review by the designers (MAC users) has resulted in them coming back saying there are padding/margin issues on Safari 1.1.1 and IE 5.2. Bascially the blue area on the right side (the bit starting with You are subscribed to...) has a couple of pixels white space at the top bottom. This blue should be sitting flush with the header footer. I've tested it on IE 5.1.7 (it looks fine), but don't have access to either of these other browsers. I've got two questions: 1) What mail client are available on the MAC and what browsers do they use for rendering HTML content? 2) What is causing this issue and what can I do to fix it? Thanks in advance. Mark * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] HTML email - mac testers please
Mark: Mac OSX comes with a prog called Mail (known as Apple Mail), then there's, I guess, Entourage for MS Office users, Outlook Express, Eudora - and others. I use Mail - which by logic should use the Safari engine for rendering HTML - but I've had similar problems with unwanted white space in my messages as rendered by Mail. The bad news is, I gave up on trying to fix it, and loosened the layout to compensate - not an option in your case, I can see. One hint, though - my problem had to do with table cells as well, and I've an idea that it has something to do with font sizes and baselines, even if there's no text in the cell. Mind you, I wasn't using pure CSS for the layout; I stick with traditional bloated HTML for maximum compatibility. My main concern is the browser-based mail clients - Hotmail et al - that do horrible things to CSS-based emails. See article on A List Apart http://www.alistapart.com/articles/cssemail/ for more info... BTW, your mockup renders fine in Safari 1.0.2 and IE5.2.2 (on OSX 10.2.8). Let me know direct if you want screenshots. G'luck! Nick ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ On Thursday, June 10, 2004, at 01:08 PM, Mark Stanton wrote: Hi All I've got an HTML email that I need to prepare for a client. The mockup can be seen at: HTML: http://mark.gruden.com/beerworth/ CSS: http://mark.gruden.com/beerworth/lib/main.css We didn't design it, we just did the HTML CSS work. An initial review by the designers (MAC users) has resulted in them coming back saying there are padding/margin issues on Safari 1.1.1 and IE 5.2. Bascially the blue area on the right side (the bit starting with You are subscribed to...) has a couple of pixels white space at the top bottom. This blue should be sitting flush with the header footer. I've tested it on IE 5.1.7 (it looks fine), but don't have access to either of these other browsers. I've got two questions: 1) What mail client are available on the MAC and what browsers do they use for rendering HTML content? 2) What is causing this issue and what can I do to fix it? Thanks in advance. Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 2 9299 9462 Fax: +61 2 9299 9463 Mob: +61 410 458 201 http://www.gruden.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] HTML email - mac testers please
Hey there Mark, html in emails is a bit trcky and doesn't take too kindly to external css files or using css for positioning. To cover all bases, I usually code the emails in html 3.2 - using as much inline crappy html as possible. It ain't pretty but it works. Go here for some more info : http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=StyleInEmail And check here for the nifty little mail program I use called Dada mail : http://mojo.skazat.com/ As long as you whack in html 3.2 - all will be gravy. A bientot, Benvolio - Original Message - From: Mark Stanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 1:08 PM Subject: [WSG] HTML email - mac testers please Hi All I've got an HTML email that I need to prepare for a client. The mockup can be seen at: HTML: http://mark.gruden.com/beerworth/ CSS: http://mark.gruden.com/beerworth/lib/main.css We didn't design it, we just did the HTML CSS work. An initial review by the designers (MAC users) has resulted in them coming back saying there are padding/margin issues on Safari 1.1.1 and IE 5.2. Bascially the blue area on the right side (the bit starting with You are subscribed to...) has a couple of pixels white space at the top bottom. This blue should be sitting flush with the header footer. I've tested it on IE 5.1.7 (it looks fine), but don't have access to either of these other browsers. I've got two questions: 1) What mail client are available on the MAC and what browsers do they use for rendering HTML content? 2) What is causing this issue and what can I do to fix it? Thanks in advance. Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 2 9299 9462 Fax: +61 2 9299 9463 Mob: +61 410 458 201 http://www.gruden.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] HTML email - mac testers please
Hey there Mark, html in emails is a bit trcky and doesn't take too kindly to external css files or using css for positioning. To cover all bases, I usually code the emails in html 3.2 - using as much inline crappy html as possible. It ain't pretty but it works. Go here for some more info : http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=StyleInEmail And check here for the nifty little mail program I use called Dada mail : http://mojo.skazat.com/ As long as you whack in html 3.2 - all will be gravy. A bientot, Benvolio - Original Message - From: Mark Stanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 1:08 PM Subject: [WSG] HTML email - mac testers please Hi All I've got an HTML email that I need to prepare for a client. The mockup can be seen at: HTML: http://mark.gruden.com/beerworth/ CSS: http://mark.gruden.com/beerworth/lib/main.css We didn't design it, we just did the HTML CSS work. An initial review by the designers (MAC users) has resulted in them coming back saying there are padding/margin issues on Safari 1.1.1 and IE 5.2. Bascially the blue area on the right side (the bit starting with You are subscribed to...) has a couple of pixels white space at the top bottom. This blue should be sitting flush with the header footer. I've tested it on IE 5.1.7 (it looks fine), but don't have access to either of these other browsers. I've got two questions: 1) What mail client are available on the MAC and what browsers do they use for rendering HTML content? 2) What is causing this issue and what can I do to fix it? Thanks in advance. Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 2 9299 9462 Fax: +61 2 9299 9463 Mob: +61 410 458 201 http://www.gruden.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] HTML email - mac testers please
Thanks guys Let me clarrify something quickly - I hate HTML email and I'm pretty sure I will burn in hell for my sins against the STMP protocol or whatever, but... I have a problem here that I need solved. I know HTML rendering in email client like lotus notes is very poor and I realise that multi-part emails are a great way to go, but... my current scope of work is to get a good enough version of the HTML layout complete. I'm not designing or running the campaign so most of these decisions are not mine to make. I guess I'm just interested what rendering engine do 90% on a MAC use when they look at an HTML email and then testing in that environment. Cheers Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 2 9299 9462 Fax: +61 2 9299 9463 Mob: +61 410 458 201 http://www.gruden.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] HTML email - mac testers please
Big thanks Nick, I've gone for a table based layout for these reasons, CCS-P in mail clients is asking for trouble. I guess the next step is removing all my CSS and just going the old school route as suggested by Ben. If most Mac users are on Mail or Outlook (which I guess means Safari IE) at least I know what I'm aiming for. Thanks for testing in those browsers - I'll go back to the designers and see what they think. Cheers Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: +61 2 9299 9462 Fax: +61 2 9299 9463 Mob: +61 410 458 201 http://www.gruden.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
