Re: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility
Alan Trick wrote: snip It is possible to get ASP.NET to give you compliant code. /snip Therein lies the rub in my opinion. Isn't the tool supposed to make your task easier? Who do you want in control, the designer/coder or the IDE? Would you in fact tolerate that level of fiddling with a hammer if you wanted to use nails not supplied by the manufacturer? That's my $0.02, Randall -- R. Potter Design and Development Lead Midnight Oil Design: http://www.midnightoildesign.com Pragmatic Programming Principle #59: Costly Tools Don't Produce Better Designs. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility
Actually, Tatham was kind of right in a way. It is possible to get ASP.NET to give you compliant code. However, compliance and web standards are *not* the same thing. Compliance is only part of web standards (and one of the smallest IMHO). Take for example the Internet explorer blog on msdn.com http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/. The search form on the could be completely valid markup (it's actually not because the id names start with an underscore, but it could be). However, the code there is emphatically *not* standard. Essentially they are trying to make a link to something that a sumit input or button element should be doing. To cover up this unholy substitution, they use a bunch of javascript. Of course the form is completely broken to users without javascript. Alan Trick csslist wrote: wasnt bashing m$ was saying a FACT, you shouldnt have to use a 3rd party tool to get it right and your server-side lang shouldnt destroy your markup without user error. see other reply, the guy was right!! It does obviously favors ie and last i check ie and compliance werent on the same page. whats next? You gunna say frontpage writes complient code (if you know what you are doing) ;)~ Tatham Oddie wrote: Not true – you just need to know how to use it properly instead of Microsoft bashing. If you do want to use the built in controls and still get compliant markup, I can provide you with a really simple article on how to do so. Thanks, Tatham Oddie .. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
re: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility
Have you ever seen anything that microsoft makes that makes anything near compliant code? didnt think so If you are going to use .net and want complient code then you will spend a lot of time going back and tweaking the code to get it to comply. From: Stuart Sherwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:23 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibilityI have been lucky enough to work with a very experienced java programmer on the last few sites I have designed. I do all the front end, he does the database, application, CMS, security and e-commerce development.The experience has been very pleasurable because of the degree of separation we have achieved between the front and back ends that allows me to make the sites fully standards compatible. Any dymanic content spits out pure content with the bare minimum of markup necessary.I'm wondering how .net compares as I haven't had the chance yet to build a site with it?Regards,Stuart Sherwoodwww.re-entity.com**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
RE: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility
Not true you just need to know how to use it properly instead of Microsoft bashing. If you do want to use the built in controls and still get compliant markup, I can provide you with a really simple article on how to do so. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of csslist Sent: Tuesday, 27 September 2005 10:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: re: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility Have you ever seen anything that microsoft makes that makes anything near compliant code? didnt think so If you are going to use .net and want complient code then you will spend a lot of time going back and tweaking the code to get it to comply. From: Stuart Sherwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:23 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility I have been lucky enough to work with a very experienced java programmer on the last few sites I have designed. I do all the front end, he does the database, application, CMS, security and e-commerce development. The experience has been very pleasurable because of the degree of separation we have achieved between the front and back ends that allows me to make the sites fully standards compatible. Any dymanic content spits out pure content with the bare minimum of markup necessary. I'm wondering how .net compares as I haven't had the chance yet to build a site with it? Regards, Stuart Sherwood www.re-entity.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility
wasnt bashing m$ was saying a FACT, you shouldnt have to use a 3rd party tool to get it right and your server-side lang shouldnt destroy your markup without user error. see other reply, the guy was right!! It does obviously favors ie and last i check ie and compliance werent on the same page. whats next? You gunna say frontpage writes complient code (if you know what you are doing) ;)~From: "Tatham Oddie \(Fuel Advance\)" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:09 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: RE: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility Not true you just need to know how to use it properly instead of Microsoft bashing. If you do want to use the built in controls and still get compliant markup, I can provide you with a really simple article on how to do so.Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of csslist Sent: Tuesday, 27 September 2005 10:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: re: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility Have you ever seen anything that microsoft makes that makes anything near compliant code? didnt think so If you are going to use .net and want complient code then you will spend a lot of time going back and tweaking the code to get it to comply. From: Stuart Sherwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:23 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: SPAM-LOW: [WSG] Java (JSP) v .net for standard and accessibility I have been lucky enough to work with a very experienced java programmer on the last few sites I have designed. I do all the front end, he does the database, application, CMS, security and e-commerce development. The experience has been very pleasurable because of the degree of separation we have achieved between the front and back ends that allows me to make the sites fully standards compatible. Any dymanic content spits out pure content with the bare minimum of markup necessary. I'm wondering how .net compares as I haven't had the chance yet to build a site with it? Regards, Stuart Sherwood www.re-entity.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
