Re: [wsjt-devel] Fw: sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer
RR73 is also a valid grid square and could cause confusion in software. George J Molnar KF2T | AFA9GM Twitter: @GJMolnar SUPPORT HR-1301 & S-1685 http://www.arrl.org/amateur-radio-parity-act > On Aug 24, 2015, at 15:40, Jay Hainline wrote: > > Just to clarify, the line contained both calls and RR73. This was AFTER > reports had been sent both ways. So I don't know what the difference would be > in receiving 2 "Rogers" instead of 3. :-) > > > > Jay KA9CFD > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Smartphone > > > Original message > From: George J Molnar > Date: 08/24/2015 5:23 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Bill Ockert - ND0B , WSJT software development > > Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fw: sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto > sequencer > > Agree, Bill. Auto-sequence should be the same as manual, and RR73 isn't a > good way to complete, nor is anything else that fails to include your > callsign. > > > > George J Molnar, CEM, CHPP > Nevada Statewide Interoperability Coordinator > @GJMolnar | KF2T | AFA9GM > > On Aug 24, 2015, at 3:18 PM, Bill Ockert - ND0B <mailto:n...@ockert.us>> wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> No I do treat RRR 73 as a valid ending when I handle it manually. I treat >> RR73 as improper in both in content and in white space. >> >> Bill >> >> From: Michael Black <mailto:mdblac...@gmail.com> >> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 4:53 PM >> To: Bill Ockert - ND0B <mailto:n...@ockert.us> ; WSJT software development >> <mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> >> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer >> >> Just curious Bill -- do you treat RR73 as a valid QSO ending? >> About 7% of users use that according to my logs. >> >> Mike W9MDB >> >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Bill Ockert - ND0B > <mailto:n...@ockert.us>> wrote: >> Jay, >> >> I do not view it as harsh. Harsh was when I went off HF JT modes completely >> for well over a year >> because of it. I am one of about five stations in ND that are on JT HF >> modes, one >> of about three on both JT HF modes and LOTW and one of one on JT HF modes, >> LOTW >> and 12 and 160 meters.I get on about twice a year to help folks with >> WAS, I am >> not a fan of HF period so it is generally not an enjoyable experience and I >> get a >> resentful when folks start counting teeth... I already know I am about >> ready for McDonalds >> or the glue factory. >> >> Both the WSJT and WSJTX manual clearly state what is considered a minimal >> QSO >> and I am in complete agreement with it. A QSO is complete when all of the >> essential elements of if are complete and that includes one station >> receiving an RRR. >> >> If others choose to use a different format that is purely their business >> just as it >> is mine to choose not to accept less than the published minimal contact. >> At one point >> I had a much more lenient policy about that which included sending TX3 a >> second >> time then emailing the station letting them know what the issue was and >> offering a >> retry. However I was point blank told that I had no right to tell other >> stations what >> to transmit, I capitulated completely and now have a policy where I >> terminate the contact >> immediately upon deviation from the minimal QSO and do not offer a retry. >> The person >> who was doing the complaining called me a crazy old ^&%$#$% when I made the >> change >> so it must have been exactly the right thing to do. >> >> As a personal side note I was hoping to make it to 60 before that happened >> but oh well... >> >> I believe if there is going to be an auto sequencer one of its functions >> should be to >> enforce the minimal QSO and not facilitate less than minimal QSOs. That is >> both >> for integrity of the QSO reasons and because it would be a pain to program >> all of the >> variations that are floating around out there. The only question mark >> there should >> be for an auto sequencer is how to gracefully shut down the contact. There >> is a catch 22 in the logic to handle 73's that I believe is handled >> reasonably well in the WSJT >> ISCAT auto sequencer that I hope to move over the WSJTX. >> >> For those users who feel otherwise they can always override the auto >> sequencer and advance >> if they feel the auto sequencer was being too strict. >>
Re: [wsjt-devel] Fw: sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer
Just to clarify, the line contained both calls and RR73. This was AFTER reports had been sent both ways. So I don't know what the difference would be in receiving 2 "Rogers" instead of 3. :-) Jay KA9CFD Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Smartphone Original message From: George J Molnar Date: 08/24/2015 5:23 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Bill Ockert - ND0B , WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fw: sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer Agree, Bill. Auto-sequence should be the same as manual, and RR73 isn't a good way to complete, nor is anything else that fails to include your callsign. George J Molnar, CEM, CHPPNevada Statewide Interoperability Coordinator @GJMolnar | KF2T | AFA9GM On Aug 24, 2015, at 3:18 PM, Bill Ockert - ND0B wrote: Mike, No I do treat RRR 73 as a valid ending when I handle it manually. I treat RR73 as improper in both in content and in white space. Bill From: Michael Black Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 4:53 PM To: Bill Ockert - ND0B ; WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer Just curious Bill -- do you treat RR73 as a valid QSO ending? About 7% of users use that according to my logs. Mike W9MDB On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Bill Ockert - ND0B wrote: Jay, I do not view it as harsh. Harsh was when I went off HF JT modes completely for well over a year because of it. I am one of about five stations in ND that are on JT HF modes, one of about three on both JT HF modes and LOTW and one of one on JT HF modes, LOTW and 12 and 160 meters. I get on about twice a year to help folks with WAS, I am not a fan of HF period so it is generally not an enjoyable experience and I get a resentful when folks start counting teeth... I already know I am about ready for McDonalds or the glue factory. Both the WSJT and WSJTX manual clearly state what is considered a minimal QSO and I am in complete agreement with it. A QSO is complete when all of the essential elements of if are complete and that includes one station receiving an RRR. If others choose to use a different format that is purely their business just as it is mine to choose not to accept less than the published minimal contact. At one point I had a much more lenient policy about that which included sending TX3 a second time then emailing the station letting them know what the issue was and offering a retry. However I was point blank told that I had no right to tell other stations what to transmit, I capitulated completely and now have a policy where I terminate the contact immediately upon deviation from the minimal QSO and do not offer a retry. The person who was doing the complaining called me a crazy old ^&%$#$% when I made the change so it must have been exactly the right thing to do. As a personal side note I was hoping to make it to 60 before that happened but oh well... I believe if there is going to be an auto sequencer one of its functions should be to enforce the minimal QSO and not facilitate less than minimal QSOs. That is both for integrity of the QSO reasons and because it would be a pain to program all of the variations that are floating around out there. The only question mark there should be for an auto sequencer is how to gracefully shut down the contact. There is a catch 22 in the logic to handle 73's that I believe is handled reasonably well in the WSJT ISCAT auto sequencer that I hope to move over the WSJTX. For those users who feel otherwise they can always override the auto sequencer and advance if they feel the auto sequencer was being too strict. 73 de Bill ND0B -Original Message- From: Jay Hainline Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 2:13 PM To: WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer Not logging it? That seems a little harsh. The sequencing was correct up to that point. He had already received my R-signal report from me and just bunched the RR73 into one transmit sequence. All I wanted to do was send the 73 transmission but for QSO purposes, it was complete at that point. I did manually send the 73 sequence and the QSO was logged. 73 Jay Jay Hainline KA9CFD Colchester, IL EN40om -Original Message- From: Bill Ockert - ND0B Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 15:54 To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer The auto sequencer, while it should not have gone back to TX2, actually acted in a benign manner compared to what I would have done manually, namely ended the contact without the benefit of logging it. 73 de Bill ND0B -Original Message- From: Jay Hainline Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 6:56 AM To: wsj
Re: [wsjt-devel] Fw: sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer
Agree, Bill. Auto-sequence should be the same as manual, and RR73 isn't a good way to complete, nor is anything else that fails to include your callsign. George J Molnar, CEM, CHPP Nevada Statewide Interoperability Coordinator @GJMolnar | KF2T | AFA9GM > On Aug 24, 2015, at 3:18 PM, Bill Ockert - ND0B wrote: > > Mike, > > No I do treat RRR 73 as a valid ending when I handle it manually. I treat > RR73 as improper in both in content and in white space. > > Bill > > From: Michael Black > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 4:53 PM > To: Bill Ockert - ND0B ; WSJT software development > Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer > > Just curious Bill -- do you treat RR73 as a valid QSO ending? > About 7% of users use that according to my logs. > > Mike W9MDB > >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Bill Ockert - ND0B wrote: >> Jay, >> >> I do not view it as harsh. Harsh was when I went off HF JT modes completely >> for well over a year >> because of it. I am one of about five stations in ND that are on JT HF >> modes, one >> of about three on both JT HF modes and LOTW and one of one on JT HF modes, >> LOTW >> and 12 and 160 meters.I get on about twice a year to help folks with >> WAS, I am >> not a fan of HF period so it is generally not an enjoyable experience and I >> get a >> resentful when folks start counting teeth... I already know I am about >> ready for McDonalds >> or the glue factory. >> >> Both the WSJT and WSJTX manual clearly state what is considered a minimal >> QSO >> and I am in complete agreement with it. A QSO is complete when all of the >> essential elements of if are complete and that includes one station >> receiving an RRR. >> >> If others choose to use a different format that is purely their business >> just as it >> is mine to choose not to accept less than the published minimal contact. >> At one point >> I had a much more lenient policy about that which included sending TX3 a >> second >> time then emailing the station letting them know what the issue was and >> offering a >> retry. However I was point blank told that I had no right to tell other >> stations what >> to transmit, I capitulated completely and now have a policy where I >> terminate the contact >> immediately upon deviation from the minimal QSO and do not offer a retry. >> The person >> who was doing the complaining called me a crazy old ^&%$#$% when I made the >> change >> so it must have been exactly the right thing to do. >> >> As a personal side note I was hoping to make it to 60 before that happened >> but oh well... >> >> I believe if there is going to be an auto sequencer one of its functions >> should be to >> enforce the minimal QSO and not facilitate less than minimal QSOs. That is >> both >> for integrity of the QSO reasons and because it would be a pain to program >> all of the >> variations that are floating around out there. The only question mark >> there should >> be for an auto sequencer is how to gracefully shut down the contact. There >> is a catch 22 in the logic to handle 73's that I believe is handled >> reasonably well in the WSJT >> ISCAT auto sequencer that I hope to move over the WSJTX. >> >> For those users who feel otherwise they can always override the auto >> sequencer and advance >> if they feel the auto sequencer was being too strict. >> >> 73 de Bill ND0B >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Jay Hainline >> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 2:13 PM >> To: WSJT software development >> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer >> >> Not logging it? That seems a little harsh. The sequencing was correct up to >> that point. He had already received my R-signal report from me and just >> bunched the RR73 into one transmit sequence. All I wanted to do was send the >> 73 transmission but for QSO purposes, it was complete at that point. I did >> manually send the 73 sequence and the QSO was logged. >> >> 73 Jay >> >> Jay Hainline KA9CFD >> Colchester, IL EN40om >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Bill Ockert - ND0B >> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 15:54 >> To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer >> >> The auto sequencer, while it should not have gone back to TX2, actually >> acted in a >> benign manner compared to what I would have done manually, namely ended the >> contact >> without the benefit of logging it. >> >> 73 de Bill ND0B >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Jay Hainline >> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 6:56 AM >> To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> Subject: [wsjt-devel] sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer >> >> I had a small issue this morning working a station on 6 meters using >> WSJTX-devel r5808 using JT9H mode and auto sequencing. The station I was >> running with sent calls followed by RR73 programmed in the TX4 message >> button. The auto sequencer on
[wsjt-devel] Fw: sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer
Mike, No I do treat RRR 73 as a valid ending when I handle it manually. I treat RR73 as improper in both in content and in white space. Bill From: Michael Black Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 4:53 PM To: Bill Ockert - ND0B ; WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer Just curious Bill -- do you treat RR73 as a valid QSO ending? About 7% of users use that according to my logs. Mike W9MDB On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Bill Ockert - ND0B wrote: Jay, I do not view it as harsh. Harsh was when I went off HF JT modes completely for well over a year because of it. I am one of about five stations in ND that are on JT HF modes, one of about three on both JT HF modes and LOTW and one of one on JT HF modes, LOTW and 12 and 160 meters.I get on about twice a year to help folks with WAS, I am not a fan of HF period so it is generally not an enjoyable experience and I get a resentful when folks start counting teeth... I already know I am about ready for McDonalds or the glue factory. Both the WSJT and WSJTX manual clearly state what is considered a minimal QSO and I am in complete agreement with it. A QSO is complete when all of the essential elements of if are complete and that includes one station receiving an RRR. If others choose to use a different format that is purely their business just as it is mine to choose not to accept less than the published minimal contact. At one point I had a much more lenient policy about that which included sending TX3 a second time then emailing the station letting them know what the issue was and offering a retry. However I was point blank told that I had no right to tell other stations what to transmit, I capitulated completely and now have a policy where I terminate the contact immediately upon deviation from the minimal QSO and do not offer a retry. The person who was doing the complaining called me a crazy old ^&%$#$% when I made the change so it must have been exactly the right thing to do. As a personal side note I was hoping to make it to 60 before that happened but oh well... I believe if there is going to be an auto sequencer one of its functions should be to enforce the minimal QSO and not facilitate less than minimal QSOs. That is both for integrity of the QSO reasons and because it would be a pain to program all of the variations that are floating around out there. The only question mark there should be for an auto sequencer is how to gracefully shut down the contact. There is a catch 22 in the logic to handle 73's that I believe is handled reasonably well in the WSJT ISCAT auto sequencer that I hope to move over the WSJTX. For those users who feel otherwise they can always override the auto sequencer and advance if they feel the auto sequencer was being too strict. 73 de Bill ND0B -Original Message- From: Jay Hainline Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 2:13 PM To: WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer Not logging it? That seems a little harsh. The sequencing was correct up to that point. He had already received my R-signal report from me and just bunched the RR73 into one transmit sequence. All I wanted to do was send the 73 transmission but for QSO purposes, it was complete at that point. I did manually send the 73 sequence and the QSO was logged. 73 Jay Jay Hainline KA9CFD Colchester, IL EN40om -Original Message- From: Bill Ockert - ND0B Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 15:54 To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer The auto sequencer, while it should not have gone back to TX2, actually acted in a benign manner compared to what I would have done manually, namely ended the contact without the benefit of logging it. 73 de Bill ND0B -Original Message- From: Jay Hainline Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 6:56 AM To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [wsjt-devel] sending RR73 message on JT9H with auto sequencer I had a small issue this morning working a station on 6 meters using WSJTX-devel r5808 using JT9H mode and auto sequencing. The station I was running with sent calls followed by RR73 programmed in the TX4 message button. The auto sequencer on my end got confused by this and went back to TX2 to send the report again. I was wondering if this is something where the auto sequencer can be programmed to be a little more flexible? I think if I copy either RRR or RR73, it should go to transmit TX5 which I have as sending calls and 73. The station I ran with says he is using version r5803 and claims RR73 was pre-set for TX4 inside that particular version he downloaded. My WSJTX 1.6.1 copy has always had TX4 programmed with
