Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

Bill...I"m aware of all the inputs to the ALC controls...would you agree with 
this statement?
"Your goal should be to get close to full power (e.g. 90W) without any ALC 
indication.  Some rigs may need to show some ALC to get 90W.  It's best to keep 
your maximum power to the non-ALC level...an extra few watts won't buy you much 
but risks distorting your signal".
But that statement is completely dependent on having the computer audio set 
correctly (0dB) and not over driving the rig audio (e.g. using MIC input or 
speaker to line level on acc port being the two most common problems).  I'm 
thinking of adding an explanation of audio levels for mic,line,speaker.  
Basically, rigs and computers potentially have:INPUT: MIC, LINEOUTPUT: LINE, 
SPEAKER
SPEAKER=10VLINE=300mVMIC=10mV
There's also instrument level and professional line level but it's pretty rare 
any ham operator has those (haven't seen one yet).



Out of the 300+ rigs I've help set up only two needed ALC indication...the K3 
and 
Some of my notes (they are incomplete as I haven't kept notes on everybody) 
show:
TS-590D +SignaLink 100W with no ALCIC-7300 100W with no ALC and USB Level of 
07.IC-7200 had to increase Windows level to +30dB -- low audio bug with serial 
#'s < 0201520IC-7600 USB level 06Audio settings for TS590SG were +1 on the rig 
for tx/rx and minimum settings for Rx and -~40dB for transmit.  Appears that 
TS590G audio level is microphone level.

Mike 

On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 07:52:52 AM CDT, Bill Somerville 
 wrote:  
 
 On 06/06/2019 13:14, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
> Gary -- I've work on a dozens of rigs...probably including all the 
> ones you have.
>
> If you are unable to get at least 90W with no ALC then something in 
> your audio path is incorrect.
>
> I'd like to work with you and ensure that either my directions need 
> updating or your settings need updating.
>
> Did you follow the procedure in the document I sent?  That has worked 
> on every rig/audio combo I've tested which is over 300 operators now.
>
> Can you call me an we can hook up and figure this out? Gotta' make 
> sure the info I'm putting out is as inclusive as possible.
>
> 321-690-2551
> Mike W9MDB
>
Mike,

older Icom rigs will indicate ALC at quite low output power levels, and 
definitely if the POWER control is anywhere but 100% (note your 
instructions suggest setting the rig POWER control below maximum which 
will cause ALC indication on many rigs even with no audio drive). Also 
beware that VSWR that is not 1:1 will increase the ALC reading, as will 
anything else that causes the PA current to exceed a design threshold 
such as excess PSU voltage. ALC is the sum of several measurements 
within the rig and using it as a sole indication of audio level into the 
SSB modulator is unwise. It can certainly be used with care and 
understanding but blindly assuming any ALC indication is a reflection of 
audio overdrive is just wrong. You might add "use a good dummy load 
capable of handling the full output of the rig" to your instructions.

The only sure way of avoiding Tx audio overdrive is measuring the audio 
input level and setting it with respect to the design range specified by 
the rig's manufacturer. Rigs with built in USB audio make this 
measurement tricky. The second best option and always advisable as a 
sanity check is an on-air test with a separate receiver, spectrum 
analyser, ... A good substitute is a competent nearby station who can 
check their waterfall for any signs of audio harmonics (note that 
WSJT-X's split operating feature must be turned off and a Tx offset 
below 1000Hz selected to check for audio harmonics over the air). If the 
second and third harmonics are better than 50dB below the fundamental 
there is no problem although even lower is better (RF GAIN or 
attenuators should be used to ensure the fundamental signal is not 
exceeding the maximum input level of the receiving sound card ADC). As a 
bonus an on-air check will also detect the other common issue with 
unwanted sidebands from PSU ripple or poor earth returns (normally 
strongest at f ±120Hz or f  ±100Hz depending on the local line 
frequency), note that the cause of these could be either at the 
transmitting or the receiving end on the link, so don't jump to blaming 
the transmitting station unless you are certain your own station is 
clean on receive. Also note that on-air tests on VHF and up may include 
multiple paths with Doppler shifts due to aircraft reflections, they 
should not be confused them with poor transmit signals.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Roeland Jansen]

Mike,



I am pretty sure that ICOM knows about how their TRX work; There is no
value attached to the ALC meter so it could be a dB level, or a voltage it
displays, or whatever.
I also have quoted the manuals and if I stay within the limits ICOM
suggests, all is fine and dandy; see below and please download and check
yourself too.

On all four below mentioned manuals, "ALC range" is the line at the meter.
If you stay within that range you are OK.

7300
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/IC-7300_ENG_Full_7.pdf
page 65: When operating in the SSB data mode, adjust the device’s output
level within the ALC zone.
7610
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/IC-7610_ENG_CD_1a.pdf
page 40:  When operating in the SSB data mode, adjust the device’s output
level to be within the ALC zone.
785x
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/IC-7850_7851_ENG_IM_3.pdf
 page  117:  When operating in the SSB data mode, adjust the PC’s output
level so that the ALC meter reading doesn’t go outside the ALC zone.
9700
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/IC-9700_AdvancedManual_ENG_0.pdf
page 18:  When operating in the SSB data mode, adjust the device’s output
level within the ALC zone.



so maybe the _possibility_ is that the way Kenwood, Yaesu, et al, show ALC
different. Also note the recommendation is to adjust the PC output and not
drive 100% and have the TRX settings changed.


and having said that, the tests and measurements so far, while limited as
the R equipment is at the club and not here, show so far that all is fine
and dandy for ICOM users.

Roeland

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 5:33 PM Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> You won't see the harmonics until you have a fairly good bit of clipping
> going on.  They start at a very low level and increase as the clipping gets
> worse.
>
> Harmonics always exist...
>
> Why can't the manuals simply tell you where 0dB ALC is?   What a
> concept.
>
> You want ALC for phone...it doesn't matter there and maximizes your
> power.  I think all they did in the manual was copy one section to the
> other.
>
> Any clipping/compression at all will degrade your signaleven if you
> can't see it.
>
> You want 100% level audio (with very few exceptions on some rigs with old
> audio setups) coming from computer->soundcard.  You adjust the gain in the
> receiver and external soundcard if you have one (Signalink, RigBlaster,
> etc) to limit the power.
> As I recall I've only had one rig where we couldn't get 90-95 watts with
> no ALC.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 9:19:30 AM CDT, Roeland Jansen <
> roeland.janse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> In the *Icom manual* it states, “When operating in the SSB data mode,
> adjust the device's output level to be within the *ALC* zone.” So
> contrary to the old rule that *ALC*fluctuation is bad, that is not the
> case with these new SDR transceivers.  (from someone else's view)
>
> The ALC zone is in this case anywhere between no deflection and
> approxumately half way. There is a line drawn and outside of that line,
> you're getting in trouble.
>
> I tested this with the 7851 (200W out) and an IC7300 w/o antenna and it's
> as clean as it gets. Overdriving far beyond the line, results in side
> skirts that you easily can see at the scope.
> (and then they are S1..2 while the carrier is at 9+40).
>
>
> the copy/paste I did was from the 7851 manual
> The 7300:
>
> In the SSB mode, touch the TX meter to select the ALC meter and adjust
> until the meter reading swings between 30 to 50% of the ALC scale
>
> and 50% is halfway where the red zone ends. Now the red zone is the line
> as mentioned before so you only need to keep it in th ALC zonde and not
> beyond.
>
> I do have the mod levels of all the transceivers default and vary the
> output with the slider in the wsjtx s/w
>
>
> now. for the fun of it
>
> 9700 USB mod level 50% as per default.
> TX slider is at -20.1 dB
> ALC is now at the end of the red line so just in the limit; Output is
> 10.3W on 23. output looks clean.
> At -37.2dB there is no deflection of the ACL anymore, output is 5.9W at 23.
>
> The 7300 shows similar values where ALC is deflected and the 7851 does not
> "see" garbage
>
> 7851
>
> USB level as per default 50%
> TX slider is at -20.4 dB
> ALC is at the end of the red line, in limit, output is 207W; the 7300
> scope as rx does not see garbage left/right
> At -36.8 dB ALC starts deflecting; Output is 206W.
>
>  Don't know if that gives you some insight.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:18 PM Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
> Gary -- I've work on a dozens of rigs...probably including all the ones
> you have.
>
> If you are unable to get at least 90W with no ALC then something in your
> audio path is incorrect.
>
> I'd like to work with you and ensure that either my directions need
> updating or your settings 

Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

You won't see the harmonics until you have a fairly good bit of clipping going 
on.  They start at a very low level and increase as the clipping gets worse.
Harmonics always exist...
Why can't the manuals simply tell you where 0dB ALC is?   What a concept.
You want ALC for phone...it doesn't matter there and maximizes your power.  I 
think all they did in the manual was copy one section to the other.  
Any clipping/compression at all will degrade your signaleven if you can't 
see it.
You want 100% level audio (with very few exceptions on some rigs with old audio 
setups) coming from computer->soundcard.  You adjust the gain in the receiver 
and external soundcard if you have one (Signalink, RigBlaster, etc) to limit 
the power.As I recall I've only had one rig where we couldn't get 90-95 watts 
with no ALC.
Mike


 

On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 9:19:30 AM CDT, Roeland Jansen 
 wrote:  
 
 
In the Icom manual it states, “When operating in the SSB data mode, adjust the 
device's output level to be within the ALC zone.” So contrary to the old rule 
that ALCfluctuation is bad, that is not the case with these new SDR 
transceivers.  (from someone else's view)
The ALC zone is in this case anywhere between no deflection and approxumately 
half way. There is a line drawn and outside of that line, you're getting in 
trouble.

I tested this with the 7851 (200W out) and an IC7300 w/o antenna and it's as 
clean as it gets. Overdriving far beyond the line, results in side skirts that 
you easily can see at the scope. 
(and then they are S1..2 while the carrier is at 9+40).


the copy/paste I did was from the 7851 manual
The 7300:

In the SSB mode, touch the TX meter to selectthe ALC meter and adjust until the 
meter readingswings between 30 to 50% of the ALC scale 

and 50% is halfway where the red zone ends. Now the red zone is the line as 
mentioned before so you only need to keep it in th ALC zonde and not beyond.

I do have the mod levels of all the transceivers default and vary the output 
with the slider in the wsjtx s/w


now. for the fun of it
9700 USB mod level 50% as per default.TX slider is at -20.1 dBALC is now at the 
end of the red line so just in the limit; Output is 10.3W on 23. output looks 
clean.At -37.2dB there is no deflection of the ACL anymore, output is 5.9W at 
23.

The 7300 shows similar values where ALC is deflected and the 7851 does not 
"see" garbage

7851 
USB level as per default 50%TX slider is at -20.4 dBALC is at the end of the 
red line, in limit, output is 207W; the 7300 scope as rx does not see garbage 
left/right
At -36.8 dB ALC starts deflecting; Output is 206W.

 Don't know if that gives you some insight.




 

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:18 PM Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:

Gary -- I've work on a dozens of rigs...probably including all the ones you 
have.
If you are unable to get at least 90W with no ALC then something in your audio 
path is incorrect.
I'd like to work with you and ensure that either my directions need updating or 
your settings need updating.
Did you follow the procedure in the document I sent?  That has worked on every 
rig/audio combo I've tested which is over 300 operators now.
Can you call me an we can hook up and figure this out?  Gotta' make sure the 
info I'm putting out is as inclusive as possible.
321-690-2551Mike W9MDB

 

On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 1:24:58 AM CDT, Gary - K7EK via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:  
 
 Absolutely. I own six different Icom HF rigs. All of them put out minuscule 
power unless there is a significant deflection on the ALC meter. The no ALC 
warning does NOT apply to all rigs. I agree with RTFM. You cannot go wrong.

Best regards, 

Gary, K7EK

Radcliff, KY (EM77at)


Sent from BlueMail On Jun 5, 2019, at 15:42, Ron WV4P  wrote:
 Contrary to common belief..  You better feed that 7300 some ALC if you want it 
to perform. All radios are NOT the same and some need ALC. Ron, WV4P
  On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 2:34 PM Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: 
  
  Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. Now Trying to delete it and 
repost-  
   OH6VDA Tom   
   Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
5. jun. 2019 kl. 22:26 skrev Tom Ramberg < oh6...@yahoo.com>: 
 
  
   I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your procedure to 
set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting in a seemingly 
dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing (operator error, no 
doubt), I've never checked that the sound card sample rate was  48kHz 16-bit 
before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot!   
   73 de Tom OH6VDA
  
   Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>: 
 
  
 For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So if it 
ever bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and need to 
back off the USB Mod Level.   
   You should be able to transmit 

Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Bill Somerville]

On 06/06/2019 15:26, L Barley wrote:

so we'll just "tune" for the middle of the waterfall and leave it at that


Lance,

not exactly, you tune for the middle of the Tx SSB IF filter then enable 
"Settings->Radio->Split Operating->Rig" then you can operate an *any* Tx 
offset without worrying about variation in output level or transmission 
of unwanted audio harmonics.


73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[L Barley]

True, the ALC is not a measure of audio drive.  But, I know at what
indicated "level" it becomes active on my rig, and I don't want the ALC to
become active at all.  Mainly because the attenuation isn't equal across
the TX signal bandwidth on the 897 so it would "clip" the edges of the
signal first.if memory serves.

I typically use the 90% laptop, -5db software, 50% USB settings that I
described because that keeps the ALC inactive within the normal operating
spectrum with my conditions.  The only time I changed them was when
stations were on the edge of or "outside" the 500/2500 waterfall and I
wanted to bring up the output a bit without waking up the ALC.  Thanks for
bringing up the modulator overdrive issue, so we'll just "tune" for the
middle of the waterfall and leave it at that... :)

73 GL
Lance
KD4FW

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 9:27 AM Bill Somerville 
wrote:

> On 06/06/2019 14:11, L Barley wrote:
> > If the station is way up or down on the waterfall, (under 500hz or
> > over 2500hz) I can usually push the volume control on the laptop up to
> > 100% without running into any ALC attenuation from the rig.
> >
> Lance,
>
> really, this sort of operating is one of the common causes of poor
> signals with excessive audio harmonics. If you have working CAT control
> then you should enable WSJT-X's split operating feature to avoid
> operating near the edges of your rig's SSB Tx filter. Increasing the
> audio drive to compensate for reduced output power is a perfect recipe
> for audio harmonics as you will overdrive the SSB modulator in a futile
> attempt to overcome the attenuation of the SSB Tx IF filter further down
> the Tx chain. Just don't do it! Set the correct audio level with a
> 1500Hz Tx offset and leave it alone or at least never exceed that level.
>
> This sort of misunderstanding is yet another reason why assuming the
> rig's ALC meter is some sort of measure of audio drive is not correct
> and likely to lead to poor quality signals.
>
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
>
>
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Roeland Jansen]

In the *Icom manual* it states, “When operating in the SSB data mode,
adjust the device's output level to be within the *ALC* zone.” So contrary
to the old rule that *ALC*fluctuation is bad, that is not the case with
these new SDR transceivers.  (from someone else's view)

The ALC zone is in this case anywhere between no deflection and
approxumately half way. There is a line drawn and outside of that line,
you're getting in trouble.

I tested this with the 7851 (200W out) and an IC7300 w/o antenna and it's
as clean as it gets. Overdriving far beyond the line, results in side
skirts that you easily can see at the scope.
(and then they are S1..2 while the carrier is at 9+40).


the copy/paste I did was from the 7851 manual
The 7300:

In the SSB mode, touch the TX meter to select the ALC meter and adjust
until the meter reading swings between 30 to 50% of the ALC scale

and 50% is halfway where the red zone ends. Now the red zone is the line as
mentioned before so you only need to keep it in th ALC zonde and not beyond.

I do have the mod levels of all the transceivers default and vary the
output with the slider in the wsjtx s/w


now. for the fun of it

9700 USB mod level 50% as per default.
TX slider is at -20.1 dB
ALC is now at the end of the red line so just in the limit; Output is 10.3W
on 23. output looks clean.
At -37.2dB there is no deflection of the ACL anymore, output is 5.9W at 23.

The 7300 shows similar values where ALC is deflected and the 7851 does not
"see" garbage

7851

USB level as per default 50%
TX slider is at -20.4 dB
ALC is at the end of the red line, in limit, output is 207W; the 7300 scope
as rx does not see garbage left/right
At -36.8 dB ALC starts deflecting; Output is 206W.

 Don't know if that gives you some insight.






On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:18 PM Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Gary -- I've work on a dozens of rigs...probably including all the ones
> you have.
>
> If you are unable to get at least 90W with no ALC then something in your
> audio path is incorrect.
>
> I'd like to work with you and ensure that either my directions need
> updating or your settings need updating.
>
> Did you follow the procedure in the document I sent?  That has worked on
> every rig/audio combo I've tested which is over 300 operators now.
>
> Can you call me an we can hook up and figure this out?  Gotta' make sure
> the info I'm putting out is as inclusive as possible.
>
> 321-690-2551
> Mike W9MDB
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 1:24:58 AM CDT, Gary - K7EK via wsjt-devel <
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>
> Absolutely. I own six different Icom HF rigs. All of them put out
> minuscule power unless there is a significant deflection on the ALC meter.
> The no ALC warning does NOT apply to all rigs. I agree with RTFM. You
> cannot go wrong.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Gary, K7EK
>
> Radcliff, KY (EM77at)
>
>
> Sent from BlueMail 
> On Jun 5, 2019, at 15:42, Ron WV4P  wrote:
>
> Contrary to common belief..  You better feed that 7300 some ALC if you
> want it to perform. All radios are NOT the same and some need ALC. Ron,
> WV4P
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 2:34 PM Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel <
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
> Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. Now Trying to delete it and
> repost-
>
> OH6VDA Tom
>
> Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
>
> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 22:26 skrev Tom Ramberg < oh6...@yahoo.com>:
>
> I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your procedure
> to set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting in a
> seemingly dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing
> (operator error, no doubt), I've never checked that the sound card sample
> rate was  48kHz 16-bit before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot!
>
> 73 de Tom OH6VDA
>
> Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
>
> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>:
>
> For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So if it
> ever bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and need
> to back off the USB Mod Level.
>
> You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to 100W).
>
> That is the goal of all rigssome of the newer rigs will show < 0dB ALC
> (e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really telling
> you.  The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power slider at
> -3dB, computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound to show 50W
> tranmit power going out.  That should be 0dB ALC and shows you what to
> expect when transmitting close to the 100W.  Many rigs cannot do 100W with
> no ALC so have to back off to 95W maximum or such.  So as you gradually
> increase the power slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch your ALC
> as you approach 100W.  If you start seeing ALC you have to back off the
> audio level at the rig or external 

Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Dan Malcolm]

Michael,
One issue I found, was that even though I followed your instructions, I had my 
Win10 set to 2 channel 48Khz for recording.  Audio cleaned up very well once I 
set it to 1 channel 48Khz

__
Dan – K4SHQ

From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2019 7:15 AM
To: David Kaplan via wsjt-devel 
Cc: Black Michael 
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

Gary -- I've work on a dozens of rigs...probably including all the ones you 
have.

If you are unable to get at least 90W with no ALC then something in your audio 
path is incorrect.

I'd like to work with you and ensure that either my directions need updating or 
your settings need updating.

Did you follow the procedure in the document I sent?  That has worked on every 
rig/audio combo I've tested which is over 300 operators now.

Can you call me an we can hook up and figure this out?  Gotta' make sure the 
info I'm putting out is as inclusive as possible.

321-690-2551
Mike W9MDB




On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 1:24:58 AM CDT, Gary - K7EK via wsjt-devel 
mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>> 
wrote:


Absolutely. I own six different Icom HF rigs. All of them put out minuscule 
power unless there is a significant deflection on the ALC meter. The no ALC 
warning does NOT apply to all rigs. I agree with RTFM. You cannot go wrong.
Best regards,
Gary, K7EK
Radcliff, KY (EM77at)

Sent from BlueMail<http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=15038>
On Jun 5, 2019, at 15:42, Ron WV4P mailto:wv4...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:
Contrary to common belief..  You better feed that 7300 some ALC if you want it 
to perform. All radios are NOT the same and some need ALC. Ron, WV4P

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 2:34 PM Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net<mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>> 
wrote:
Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. Now Trying to delete it and repost-

OH6VDA Tom

Sendt fra min iPad Air 2

5. jun. 2019 kl. 22:26 skrev Tom Ramberg < 
oh6...@yahoo.com<mailto:oh6...@yahoo.com>>:
I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your procedure to 
set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting in a seemingly 
dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing (operator error, no 
doubt), I've never checked that the sound card sample rate was  48kHz 16-bit 
before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot!

73 de Tom OH6VDA

Sendt fra min iPad Air 2

5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net<mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>>:
For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So if it ever 
bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and need to back 
off the USB Mod Level.

You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to 100W).

That is the goal of all rigssome of the newer rigs will show < 0dB ALC 
(e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really telling you. 
 The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power slider at -3dB, 
computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound to show 50W tranmit 
power going out.  That should be 0dB ALC and shows you what to expect when 
transmitting close to the 100W.  Many rigs cannot do 100W with no ALC so have 
to back off to 95W maximum or such.  So as you gradually increase the power 
slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch your ALC as you approach 100W.  
If you start seeing ALC you have to back off the audio level at the rig or 
external sound card so the WSJT-X slider can be at 0dB and no ALC showing.

de Mike W9MDB




On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 12:06:34 PM CDT, Black Michael via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net<mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>> 
wrote:


If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC drop?  If 
so...that's too much audio.

Mike




On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:57:44 AM CDT, Gene Marsh < 
w8...@me.com<mailto:w8...@me.com>> wrote:


Mike,

My ALC is ~25% @80W.  But, I have no issues with transmit.  Only observing the 
double decode.  Everything else is good.

73 de W8NET Miles / “ Gene”
Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
3905 Century Club - Master #47
DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
Licensed since 1974

On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael < 
mdblac...@yahoo.com<mailto:mdblac...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayy too much audio.  What does 
your ALC meter say?

de Mike W9MDB




On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net<mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>> 
wrote:


Joe,

My setup:

Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:




-rc7
IC-7300
USB audio codec @66% volume

Need more info?

I will try to save a wav file next time I see it.


73 de W8NET Miles /

Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Bill Somerville]

On 06/06/2019 14:11, L Barley wrote:
If the station is way up or down on the waterfall, (under 500hz or 
over 2500hz) I can usually push the volume control on the laptop up to 
100% without running into any ALC attenuation from the rig.



Lance,

really, this sort of operating is one of the common causes of poor 
signals with excessive audio harmonics. If you have working CAT control 
then you should enable WSJT-X's split operating feature to avoid 
operating near the edges of your rig's SSB Tx filter. Increasing the 
audio drive to compensate for reduced output power is a perfect recipe 
for audio harmonics as you will overdrive the SSB modulator in a futile 
attempt to overcome the attenuation of the SSB Tx IF filter further down 
the Tx chain. Just don't do it! Set the correct audio level with a 
1500Hz Tx offset and leave it alone or at least never exceed that level.


This sort of misunderstanding is yet another reason why assuming the 
rig's ALC meter is some sort of measure of audio drive is not correct 
and likely to lead to poor quality signals.


73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[L Barley]

The ALC on every type of rig is different and I would guess few are linear
in attenuation.  There are many places to adjust the "volume" of the signal
along the output path.

I keep the volume control on my laptop set at about 90%, the "Pwr" slider
in WJST-X at about -5db and the "TX" control on my Signalink USB interface
set at 50%.  I then adjust the "Pwr" slider in the software, if I have to,
up or down using the ALC meter on the rig to just before the point where I
know the ALC is going to start rolling back the output.  The "Pwr" (digital
gain?) setting changes at different frequencies along the waterfall with
the upper and lower ranges able to take up to 0db without getting to the
point where the ALC in the rig cuts in if I keep the volume on the laptop
set at 90%.  If the station is way up or down on the waterfall, (under
500hz or over 2500hz) I can usually push the volume control on the laptop
up to 100% without running into any ALC attenuation from the rig.

Initially there were some internet postings that advocated setting
everything at "11" and letting the ALC in the rig deal with it. I got
several "overmod" complaints doing that before I settled on these
settings.  They seem to work for me from QRP to QRO  hope this might be
helpful.

My conditions are a Dell Laptop w/ Windows 10, SignaLink USB, FT-897,
AL-811, AT-1000Pro2 w/ M1000 multimeter, 3Kw Buckmaster OCF 7-band
dipole.

73 GL
Lance
KD4FW

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 8:18 AM Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Gary -- I've work on a dozens of rigs...probably including all the ones
> you have.
>
> If you are unable to get at least 90W with no ALC then something in your
> audio path is incorrect.
>
> I'd like to work with you and ensure that either my directions need
> updating or your settings need updating.
>
> Did you follow the procedure in the document I sent?  That has worked on
> every rig/audio combo I've tested which is over 300 operators now.
>
> Can you call me an we can hook up and figure this out?  Gotta' make sure
> the info I'm putting out is as inclusive as possible.
>
> 321-690-2551
> Mike W9MDB
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 1:24:58 AM CDT, Gary - K7EK via wsjt-devel <
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>
> Absolutely. I own six different Icom HF rigs. All of them put out
> minuscule power unless there is a significant deflection on the ALC meter.
> The no ALC warning does NOT apply to all rigs. I agree with RTFM. You
> cannot go wrong.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Gary, K7EK
>
> Radcliff, KY (EM77at)
>
>
> Sent from BlueMail 
> On Jun 5, 2019, at 15:42, Ron WV4P  wrote:
>
> Contrary to common belief..  You better feed that 7300 some ALC if you
> want it to perform. All radios are NOT the same and some need ALC. Ron,
> WV4P
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 2:34 PM Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel <
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
> Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. Now Trying to delete it and
> repost-
>
> OH6VDA Tom
>
> Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
>
> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 22:26 skrev Tom Ramberg < oh6...@yahoo.com>:
>
> I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your procedure
> to set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting in a
> seemingly dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing
> (operator error, no doubt), I've never checked that the sound card sample
> rate was  48kHz 16-bit before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot!
>
> 73 de Tom OH6VDA
>
> Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
>
> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>:
>
> For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So if it
> ever bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and need
> to back off the USB Mod Level.
>
> You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to 100W).
>
> That is the goal of all rigssome of the newer rigs will show < 0dB ALC
> (e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really telling
> you.  The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power slider at
> -3dB, computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound to show 50W
> tranmit power going out.  That should be 0dB ALC and shows you what to
> expect when transmitting close to the 100W.  Many rigs cannot do 100W with
> no ALC so have to back off to 95W maximum or such.  So as you gradually
> increase the power slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch your ALC
> as you approach 100W.  If you start seeing ALC you have to back off the
> audio level at the rig or external sound card so the WSJT-X slider can be
> at 0dB and no ALC showing.
>
> de Mike W9MDB
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 12:06:34 PM CDT, Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>
> If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC drop?  If
> so...that's too much audio.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> 

Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Bill Somerville]

On 06/06/2019 13:14, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
Gary -- I've work on a dozens of rigs...probably including all the 
ones you have.


If you are unable to get at least 90W with no ALC then something in 
your audio path is incorrect.


I'd like to work with you and ensure that either my directions need 
updating or your settings need updating.


Did you follow the procedure in the document I sent?  That has worked 
on every rig/audio combo I've tested which is over 300 operators now.


Can you call me an we can hook up and figure this out? Gotta' make 
sure the info I'm putting out is as inclusive as possible.


321-690-2551
Mike W9MDB


Mike,

older Icom rigs will indicate ALC at quite low output power levels, and 
definitely if the POWER control is anywhere but 100% (note your 
instructions suggest setting the rig POWER control below maximum which 
will cause ALC indication on many rigs even with no audio drive). Also 
beware that VSWR that is not 1:1 will increase the ALC reading, as will 
anything else that causes the PA current to exceed a design threshold 
such as excess PSU voltage. ALC is the sum of several measurements 
within the rig and using it as a sole indication of audio level into the 
SSB modulator is unwise. It can certainly be used with care and 
understanding but blindly assuming any ALC indication is a reflection of 
audio overdrive is just wrong. You might add "use a good dummy load 
capable of handling the full output of the rig" to your instructions.


The only sure way of avoiding Tx audio overdrive is measuring the audio 
input level and setting it with respect to the design range specified by 
the rig's manufacturer. Rigs with built in USB audio make this 
measurement tricky. The second best option and always advisable as a 
sanity check is an on-air test with a separate receiver, spectrum 
analyser, ... A good substitute is a competent nearby station who can 
check their waterfall for any signs of audio harmonics (note that 
WSJT-X's split operating feature must be turned off and a Tx offset 
below 1000Hz selected to check for audio harmonics over the air). If the 
second and third harmonics are better than 50dB below the fundamental 
there is no problem although even lower is better (RF GAIN or 
attenuators should be used to ensure the fundamental signal is not 
exceeding the maximum input level of the receiving sound card ADC). As a 
bonus an on-air check will also detect the other common issue with 
unwanted sidebands from PSU ripple or poor earth returns (normally 
strongest at f ±120Hz or f  ±100Hz depending on the local line 
frequency), note that the cause of these could be either at the 
transmitting or the receiving end on the link, so don't jump to blaming 
the transmitting station unless you are certain your own station is 
clean on receive. Also note that on-air tests on VHF and up may include 
multiple paths with Doppler shifts due to aircraft reflections, they 
should not be confused them with poor transmit signals.


73
Bill
G4WJS.

73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

Gary -- I've work on a dozens of rigs...probably including all the ones you 
have.
If you are unable to get at least 90W with no ALC then something in your audio 
path is incorrect.
I'd like to work with you and ensure that either my directions need updating or 
your settings need updating.
Did you follow the procedure in the document I sent?  That has worked on every 
rig/audio combo I've tested which is over 300 operators now.
Can you call me an we can hook up and figure this out?  Gotta' make sure the 
info I'm putting out is as inclusive as possible.
321-690-2551Mike W9MDB

 

On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 1:24:58 AM CDT, Gary - K7EK via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:  
 
 Absolutely. I own six different Icom HF rigs. All of them put out minuscule 
power unless there is a significant deflection on the ALC meter. The no ALC 
warning does NOT apply to all rigs. I agree with RTFM. You cannot go wrong.

Best regards, 

Gary, K7EK

Radcliff, KY (EM77at)


Sent from BlueMail On Jun 5, 2019, at 15:42, Ron WV4P  wrote:
 Contrary to common belief..  You better feed that 7300 some ALC if you want it 
to perform. All radios are NOT the same and some need ALC. Ron, WV4P
  On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 2:34 PM Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: 
  
  Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. Now Trying to delete it and 
repost-  
   OH6VDA Tom   
   Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
5. jun. 2019 kl. 22:26 skrev Tom Ramberg < oh6...@yahoo.com>: 
 
  
   I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your procedure to 
set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting in a seemingly 
dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing (operator error, no 
doubt), I've never checked that the sound card sample rate was  48kHz 16-bit 
before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot!   
   73 de Tom OH6VDA
  
   Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>: 
 
  
 For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So if it 
ever bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and need to 
back off the USB Mod Level.   
   You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to 100W).   
   That is the goal of all rigssome of the newer rigs will show < 0dB ALC 
(e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really telling you. 
 The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power slider at -3dB, 
computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound to show 50W tranmit 
power going out.  That should be 0dB ALC and shows you what to expect when 
transmitting close to the 100W.  Many rigs cannot do 100W with no ALC so have 
to back off to 95W maximum or such.  So as you gradually increase the power 
slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch your ALC as you approach 100W.  
If you start seeing ALC you have to back off the audio level at the rig or 
external sound card so the WSJT-X slider can be at 0dB and no ALC showing.   
   de Mike W9MDB   

 
   
  On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 12:06:34 PM CDT, Black Michael via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:   
   
If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC drop?  
If so...that's too much audio.   
   Mike   

 
   
   On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:57:44 AM CDT, Gene Marsh < w8...@me.com> 
wrote:   
   
 Mike,  
   My ALC is ~25% @80W.  But, I have no issues with transmit.  Only observing 
the double decode.  Everything else is good.    
  73 de W8NET Miles / “ Gene”  Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service 
(PCARS)3905 Century Club - Master #47   DV2/W8NET in the Philippines   
Licensed since 1974 
On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael < mdblac...@yahoo.com> wrote: 
 
  
 I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayy too much audio.  What 
does your ALC meter say?   
   de Mike W9MDB   

 
   
  On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:   
   
 Joe,  
   My setup:   
   Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:   
 
 
-rc7 IC-7300   USB audio codec @66% volume   
   Need more info?   
   I will try to save a wav file next time I see it.    
   
  73 de W8NET Miles / “ Gene”  Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service 
(PCARS)3905 Century Club - Master #47   DV2/W8NET in the Philippines   
Licensed since 1974  
On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor < j...@princeton.edu> wrote: 
 

  Hi Gene, 
  
 I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please send us the 
.wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us something about your 
computer setup. 
  
     -- 73, Joe, K1JT 
  
 On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote: 
 
 FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding.  Always a strong signal. Example: 
 
 
 image1.png 
 
 
 I saw that in the early days of FT8. 

Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

Roeland...does ALC stop deflecting at some lower power level on all 3 
rigslike 90W?  There will be some point that you'll see some deflection 
which you want to avoid.
I found quite a few rigs cannot do 100W without hitting the ALC.
de Mike W9MDB 

On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 1:44:28 AM CDT, Roeland Jansen 
 wrote:  
 
 

I own a 7300, 7851 and 9700. The ALC just deflects a small bit to have 100% 
power -- just tried. 

When it comes to side skirts and double decodes -- if you are too enthousiastic 
and the ALC is way up, you will indeed see these issues.


The manually states on all the TRX (different wording)

Transmit by using the PC (software). The [TX] indicator lights red.When 
operating in the SSB data mode, adjust the PC’soutput level so that the ALC 
meter reading doesn’t gooutside the ALC zone.  

The ALC zone is 
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/IC-7850_7851_ENG_IM_3.pdf
  on page 4-13.

the audio scope and bandscope in center mode also will definitely show if your 
levels are too high,

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 8:24 AM Gary - K7EK via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:

Absolutely. I own six different Icom HF rigs. All of them put out minuscule 
power unless there is a significant deflection on the ALC meter. The no ALC 
warning does NOT apply to all rigs. I agree with RTFM. You cannot go wrong.

Best regards, 

Gary, K7EK

Radcliff, KY (EM77at)


Sent from BlueMail On Jun 5, 2019, at 15:42, Ron WV4P  wrote:
 Contrary to common belief..  You better feed that 7300 some ALC if you want it 
to perform. All radios are NOT the same and some need ALC. Ron, WV4P
  On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 2:34 PM Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: 
  
  Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. Now Trying to delete it and 
repost-  
   OH6VDA Tom   
   Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
5. jun. 2019 kl. 22:26 skrev Tom Ramberg < oh6...@yahoo.com>: 
 
  
   I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your procedure to 
set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting in a seemingly 
dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing (operator error, no 
doubt), I've never checked that the sound card sample rate was  48kHz 16-bit 
before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot!   
   73 de Tom OH6VDA
  
   Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>: 
 
  
 For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So if it 
ever bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and need to 
back off the USB Mod Level.   
   You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to 100W).   
   That is the goal of all rigssome of the newer rigs will show < 0dB ALC 
(e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really telling you. 
 The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power slider at -3dB, 
computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound to show 50W tranmit 
power going out.  That should be 0dB ALC and shows you what to expect when 
transmitting close to the 100W.  Many rigs cannot do 100W with no ALC so have 
to back off to 95W maximum or such.  So as you gradually increase the power 
slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch your ALC as you approach 100W.  
If you start seeing ALC you have to back off the audio level at the rig or 
external sound card so the WSJT-X slider can be at 0dB and no ALC showing.   
   de Mike W9MDB   

 
   
  On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 12:06:34 PM CDT, Black Michael via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:   
   
If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC drop?  
If so...that's too much audio.   
   Mike   

 
   
   On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:57:44 AM CDT, Gene Marsh < w8...@me.com> 
wrote:   
   
 Mike,  
   My ALC is ~25% @80W.  But, I have no issues with transmit.  Only observing 
the double decode.  Everything else is good.    
  73 de W8NET Miles / “ Gene”  Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service 
(PCARS)3905 Century Club - Master #47   DV2/W8NET in the Philippines   
Licensed since 1974 
On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael < mdblac...@yahoo.com> wrote: 
 
  
 I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayy too much audio.  What 
does your ALC meter say?   
   de Mike W9MDB   

 
   
  On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel < 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:   
   
 Joe,  
   My setup:   
   Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:   
 
 
-rc7 IC-7300   USB audio codec @66% volume   
   Need more info?   
   I will try to save a wav file next time I see it.    
   
  73 de W8NET Miles / “ Gene”  Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service 
(PCARS)3905 Century Club - Master #47   DV2/W8NET in the Philippines   
Licensed since 1974  
On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor < 

Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Roeland Jansen]

I own a 7300, 7851 and 9700. The ALC just deflects a small bit to have 100%
power -- just tried.

When it comes to side skirts and double decodes -- if you are too
enthousiastic and the ALC is way up, you will indeed see these issues.


The manually states on all the TRX (different wording)

Transmit by using the PC (software).
The [TX] indicator lights red.
When operating in the SSB data mode, adjust the PC’s output level so that
the ALC meter reading doesn’t go outside the ALC zone.

The ALC zone is
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/IC-7850_7851_ENG_IM_3.pdf
on page 4-13.


the audio scope and bandscope in center mode also will definitely show if
your levels are too high,


On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 8:24 AM Gary - K7EK via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Absolutely. I own six different Icom HF rigs. All of them put out
> minuscule power unless there is a significant deflection on the ALC meter.
> The no ALC warning does NOT apply to all rigs. I agree with RTFM. You
> cannot go wrong.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Gary, K7EK
>
> Radcliff, KY (EM77at)
>
>
> Sent from BlueMail 
> On Jun 5, 2019, at 15:42, Ron WV4P  wrote:
>>
>> Contrary to common belief..  You better feed that 7300 some ALC if you
>> want it to perform. All radios are NOT the same and some need ALC. Ron,
>> WV4P
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 2:34 PM Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel <
>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. Now Trying to delete it and
>>> repost-
>>>
>>> OH6VDA Tom
>>>
>>> Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
>>>
>>> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 22:26 skrev Tom Ramberg < oh6...@yahoo.com>:
>>>
>>> I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your
>>> procedure to set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting
>>> in a seemingly dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing
>>> (operator error, no doubt), I've never checked that the sound card sample
>>> rate was  48kHz 16-bit before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot!
>>>
>>> 73 de Tom OH6VDA
>>>
>>> Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
>>>
>>> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
>>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>:
>>>
>>> For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So if
>>> it ever bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and
>>> need to back off the USB Mod Level.
>>>
>>> You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to 100W).
>>>
>>> That is the goal of all rigssome of the newer rigs will show < 0dB
>>> ALC (e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really
>>> telling you.  The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power
>>> slider at -3dB, computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound
>>> to show 50W tranmit power going out.  That should be 0dB ALC and shows you
>>> what to expect when transmitting close to the 100W.  Many rigs cannot do
>>> 100W with no ALC so have to back off to 95W maximum or such.  So as you
>>> gradually increase the power slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch
>>> your ALC as you approach 100W.  If you start seeing ALC you have to back
>>> off the audio level at the rig or external sound card so the WSJT-X slider
>>> can be at 0dB and no ALC showing.
>>>
>>> de Mike W9MDB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 12:06:34 PM CDT, Black Michael via wsjt-devel
>>> < wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC drop?
>>> If so...that's too much audio.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:57:44 AM CDT, Gene Marsh < w8...@me.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> My ALC is ~25% @80W.  But, I have no issues with transmit.  Only
>>> observing the double decode.  Everything else is good.
>>>
>>> 73 de W8NET Miles / “ Gene”
>>> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
>>> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
>>> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
>>> Licensed since 1974
>>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael < mdblac...@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayy too much audio.  What
>>> does your ALC meter say?
>>>
>>> de Mike W9MDB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel <
>>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe,
>>>
>>> My setup:
>>>
>>> Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> -rc7
>>> IC-7300
>>> USB audio codec @66% volume
>>>
>>> Need more info?
>>>
>>> I will try to save a wav file next time I see it.
>>>
>>>
>>> 73 de W8NET Miles / “ Gene”
>>> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
>>> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
>>> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
>>> Licensed since 1974
>>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor < j...@princeton.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Gene,
>>>
>>> I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please 

Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Gary - K7EK via wsjt-devel]

Absolutely. I own six different Icom HF rigs. All of them put out minuscule 
power unless there is a significant deflection on the ALC meter. The no ALC 
warning does NOT apply to all rigs. I agree with RTFM. You cannot go wrong.

Best regards,

Gary, K7EK

Radcliff, KY (EM77at)


⁣Sent from BlueMail ​

On Jun 5, 2019, 15:42, at 15:42, Ron WV4P  wrote:
>Contrary to common belief..  You better feed that 7300 some ALC if you
>want
>it to perform. All radios are NOT the same and some need ALC. Ron, WV4P
>
>On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 2:34 PM Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel <
>wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>> Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. Now Trying to delete it
>and
>> repost-
>>
>> OH6VDA Tom
>>
>> Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
>>
>> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 22:26 skrev Tom Ramberg :
>>
>> I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your
>procedure
>> to set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting in a
>> seemingly dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing
>> (operator error, no doubt), I've never checked that the sound card
>sample
>> rate was 48kHz 16-bit before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot!
>>
>> 73 de Tom OH6VDA
>>
>> Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
>>
>> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>:
>>
>> For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So
>if it
>> ever bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and
>need
>> to back off the USB Mod Level.
>>
>> You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to
>100W).
>>
>> That is the goal of all rigssome of the newer rigs will show <
>0dB ALC
>> (e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really
>telling
>> you.  The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power
>slider at
>> -3dB, computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound to
>show 50W
>> tranmit power going out.  That should be 0dB ALC and shows you what
>to
>> expect when transmitting close to the 100W.  Many rigs cannot do 100W
>with
>> no ALC so have to back off to 95W maximum or such.  So as you
>gradually
>> increase the power slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch
>your ALC
>> as you approach 100W.  If you start seeing ALC you have to back off
>the
>> audio level at the rig or external sound card so the WSJT-X slider
>can be
>> at 0dB and no ALC showing.
>>
>> de Mike W9MDB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 12:06:34 PM CDT, Black Michael via
>wsjt-devel <
>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC
>drop?  If
>> so...that's too much audio.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:57:44 AM CDT, Gene Marsh 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> My ALC is ~25% @80W.  But, I have no issues with transmit.  Only
>observing
>> the double decode.  Everything else is good.
>>
>> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
>> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
>> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
>> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
>> Licensed since 1974
>>
>> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael 
>wrote:
>>
>> I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayy too much audio.
>What
>> does your ALC meter say?
>>
>> de Mike W9MDB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel
><
>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Joe,
>>
>> My setup:
>>
>> Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> -rc7
>> IC-7300
>> USB audio codec @66% volume
>>
>> Need more info?
>>
>> I will try to save a wav file next time I see it.
>>
>>
>> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
>> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
>> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
>> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
>> Licensed since 1974
>>
>> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gene,
>>
>> I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please
>send us
>> the .wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us something
>about
>> your computer setup.
>>
>>-- 73, Joe, K1JT
>>
>> On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:
>>
>> FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding.  Always a strong signal.
>> Example:
>>
>> image1.png
>>
>> I saw that in the early days of FT8.
>>
>>  Except for that, it’s working really well. (Thank you Joe and your
>team)
>>
>> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
>>
>> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
>>
>> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
>>
>> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
>>
>> Licensed since 1974
>>
>> ___
>>
>> wsjt-devel mailing list
>>
>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> wsjt-devel mailing list
>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>>
>> ___
>> 

Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

I haven't found a rig yet (other than Elecraft) that need any ALC.  I think 
there may be one other I've run into but don't recall right now where the meter 
does show 0dB up the scale a bit.
Like I said...run the rig at 100W and adjust WSJT-X down the scale...at some 
point down the scale ALC will be at zero.
Every -3db should give you 50% power reduction.  Works on every rig that is set 
correctly.
Mike



 

On Wednesday, June 5, 2019, 2:39:20 PM CDT, Ron WV4P  
wrote:  
 
 Contrary to common belief..  You better feed that 7300 some ALC if you want it 
to perform. All radios are NOT the same and some need ALC. Ron, WV4P
On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 2:34 PM Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:

Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. Now Trying to delete it and repost-
OH6VDA Tom
Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
5. jun. 2019 kl. 22:26 skrev Tom Ramberg :


I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your procedure to 
set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting in a seemingly 
dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing (operator error, no 
doubt), I've never checked that the sound card sample rate was 48kHz 16-bit 
before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot!
73 de Tom OH6VDA

Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
:


For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So if it ever 
bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and need to back 
off the USB Mod Level.
You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to 100W).
That is the goal of all rigssome of the newer rigs will show < 0dB ALC 
(e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really telling you. 
 The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power slider at -3dB, 
computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound to show 50W tranmit 
power going out.  That should be 0dB ALC and shows you what to expect when 
transmitting close to the 100W.  Many rigs cannot do 100W with no ALC so have 
to back off to 95W maximum or such.  So as you gradually increase the power 
slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch your ALC as you approach 100W.  
If you start seeing ALC you have to back off the audio level at the rig or 
external sound card so the WSJT-X slider can be at 0dB and no ALC showing.
de Mike W9MDB

 

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 12:06:34 PM CDT, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:  
 
 If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC drop?  If 
so...that's too much audio.
Mike

 

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:57:44 AM CDT, Gene Marsh  wrote: 
 
 
 Mike,
My ALC is ~25% @80W.  But, I have no issues with transmit.  Only observing the 
double decode.  Everything else is good. 
73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service 
(PCARS)3905 Century Club - Master #47DV2/W8NET in the PhilippinesLicensed since 
1974
On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael  wrote:


I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayy too much audio.  What does 
your ALC meter say?
de Mike W9MDB

 

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:  
 
 Joe,
My setup:
Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:


-rc7IC-7300USB audio codec @66% volume
Need more info?
I will try to save a wav file next time I see it. 

73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service 
(PCARS)3905 Century Club - Master #47DV2/W8NET in the PhilippinesLicensed since 
1974
On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor  wrote:


Hi Gene,

I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please send us the 
.wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us something about your 
computer setup.

    -- 73, Joe, K1JT

On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:

FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding.  Always a strong signal. Example:


image1.png


I saw that in the early days of FT8.


  Except for that, it’s working really well. (Thank you Joe and your team)


73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”


Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)


3905 Century Club - Master #47


DV2/W8NET in the Philippines


Licensed since 1974


___


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Ron WV4P]

Contrary to common belief..  You better feed that 7300 some ALC if you want
it to perform. All radios are NOT the same and some need ALC. Ron, WV4P

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 2:34 PM Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. Now Trying to delete it and
> repost-
>
> OH6VDA Tom
>
> Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
>
> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 22:26 skrev Tom Ramberg :
>
> I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your procedure
> to set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting in a
> seemingly dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing
> (operator error, no doubt), I've never checked that the sound card sample
> rate was 48kHz 16-bit before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot!
>
> 73 de Tom OH6VDA
>
> Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
>
> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>:
>
> For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So if it
> ever bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and need
> to back off the USB Mod Level.
>
> You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to 100W).
>
> That is the goal of all rigssome of the newer rigs will show < 0dB ALC
> (e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really telling
> you.  The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power slider at
> -3dB, computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound to show 50W
> tranmit power going out.  That should be 0dB ALC and shows you what to
> expect when transmitting close to the 100W.  Many rigs cannot do 100W with
> no ALC so have to back off to 95W maximum or such.  So as you gradually
> increase the power slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch your ALC
> as you approach 100W.  If you start seeing ALC you have to back off the
> audio level at the rig or external sound card so the WSJT-X slider can be
> at 0dB and no ALC showing.
>
> de Mike W9MDB
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 12:06:34 PM CDT, Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>
> If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC drop?  If
> so...that's too much audio.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:57:44 AM CDT, Gene Marsh 
> wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
>
> My ALC is ~25% @80W.  But, I have no issues with transmit.  Only observing
> the double decode.  Everything else is good.
>
> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
> Licensed since 1974
>
> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael  wrote:
>
> I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayy too much audio.  What
> does your ALC meter say?
>
> de Mike W9MDB
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel <
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>
> Joe,
>
> My setup:
>
> Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:
>
> 
>
>
> -rc7
> IC-7300
> USB audio codec @66% volume
>
> Need more info?
>
> I will try to save a wav file next time I see it.
>
>
> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
> Licensed since 1974
>
> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor  wrote:
>
> Hi Gene,
>
> I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please send us
> the .wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us something about
> your computer setup.
>
>-- 73, Joe, K1JT
>
> On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:
>
> FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding.  Always a strong signal.
> Example:
>
> image1.png
>
> I saw that in the early days of FT8.
>
>  Except for that, it’s working really well. (Thank you Joe and your team)
>
> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
>
> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
>
> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
>
> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
>
> Licensed since 1974
>
> ___
>
> wsjt-devel mailing list
>
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>
>
>
> ___
> wsjt-devel mailing list
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>
> ___
> wsjt-devel mailing list
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>
> 
>
> ___
> wsjt-devel mailing list
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>
> ___
> wsjt-devel mailing list
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>
> ___
> wsjt-devel mailing list
> 

Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel]

Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. Now Trying to delete it and repost-

OH6VDA Tom

Sendt fra min iPad Air 2

> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 22:26 skrev Tom Ramberg :
> 
> I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your procedure to 
> set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting in a seemingly 
> dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing (operator error, 
> no doubt), I've never checked that the sound card sample rate was 48kHz 
> 16-bit before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot!
> 
> 73 de Tom OH6VDA
> 
> Sendt fra min iPad Air 2
> 
>> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
>> :
>> 
>> For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So if it 
>> ever bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and need 
>> to back off the USB Mod Level.
>> 
>> You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to 100W).
>> 
>> That is the goal of all rigssome of the newer rigs will show < 0dB ALC 
>> (e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really telling 
>> you.  The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power slider at 
>> -3dB, computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound to show 50W 
>> tranmit power going out.  That should be 0dB ALC and shows you what to 
>> expect when transmitting close to the 100W.  Many rigs cannot do 100W with 
>> no ALC so have to back off to 95W maximum or such.  So as you gradually 
>> increase the power slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch your ALC 
>> as you approach 100W.  If you start seeing ALC you have to back off the 
>> audio level at the rig or external sound card so the WSJT-X slider can be at 
>> 0dB and no ALC showing.
>> 
>> de Mike W9MDB
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 12:06:34 PM CDT, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC drop?  If 
>> so...that's too much audio.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:57:44 AM CDT, Gene Marsh  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Mike,
>> 
>> My ALC is ~25% @80W.  But, I have no issues with transmit.  Only observing 
>> the double decode.  Everything else is good. 
>> 
>> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
>> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
>> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
>> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
>> Licensed since 1974
>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayy too much audio.  What does 
>>> your ALC meter say?
>>> 
>>> de Mike W9MDB
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Joe,
>>> 
>>> My setup:
>>> 
>>> Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -rc7
>>> IC-7300
>>> USB audio codec @66% volume
>>> 
>>> Need more info?
>>> 
>>> I will try to save a wav file next time I see it. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
>>> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
>>> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
>>> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
>>> Licensed since 1974
>>> 
 On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor  wrote:
 
>>> 
 Hi Gene,
 
 I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please send us 
 the .wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us something about 
 your computer setup.
 
-- 73, Joe, K1JT
 
> On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:
> FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding.  Always a strong signal. 
> Example:
> image1.png
> I saw that in the early days of FT8.
>  Except for that, it’s working really well. (Thank you Joe and your team)
> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
> Licensed since 1974
> ___
> wsjt-devel mailing list
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
 
 
 ___
 wsjt-devel mailing list
 wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> wsjt-devel mailing list
>>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> wsjt-devel mailing list
>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>> ___
>> wsjt-devel mailing list
>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
___
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel]

I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your procedure to 
set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting in a seemingly 
dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing (operator error, no 
doubt), I've never checked that the sound card sample rate was 48kHz 16-bit 
before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot!

73 de Tom OH6VDA

Sendt fra min iPad Air 2

> 5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
> :
> 
> For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So if it 
> ever bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and need to 
> back off the USB Mod Level.
> 
> You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to 100W).
> 
> That is the goal of all rigssome of the newer rigs will show < 0dB ALC 
> (e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really telling 
> you.  The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power slider at 
> -3dB, computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound to show 50W 
> tranmit power going out.  That should be 0dB ALC and shows you what to expect 
> when transmitting close to the 100W.  Many rigs cannot do 100W with no ALC so 
> have to back off to 95W maximum or such.  So as you gradually increase the 
> power slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch your ALC as you approach 
> 100W.  If you start seeing ALC you have to back off the audio level at the 
> rig or external sound card so the WSJT-X slider can be at 0dB and no ALC 
> showing.
> 
> de Mike W9MDB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 12:06:34 PM CDT, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC drop?  If 
> so...that's too much audio.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:57:44 AM CDT, Gene Marsh  wrote:
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> My ALC is ~25% @80W.  But, I have no issues with transmit.  Only observing 
> the double decode.  Everything else is good. 
> 
> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
> Licensed since 1974
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael  wrote:
>> 
>> I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayy too much audio.  What does 
>> your ALC meter say?
>> 
>> de Mike W9MDB
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Joe,
>> 
>> My setup:
>> 
>> Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -rc7
>> IC-7300
>> USB audio codec @66% volume
>> 
>> Need more info?
>> 
>> I will try to save a wav file next time I see it. 
>> 
>> 
>> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
>> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
>> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
>> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
>> Licensed since 1974
>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>>> Hi Gene,
>>> 
>>> I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please send us 
>>> the .wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us something about 
>>> your computer setup.
>>> 
>>>-- 73, Joe, K1JT
>>> 
 On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:
 FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding.  Always a strong signal. 
 Example:
 image1.png
 I saw that in the early days of FT8.
  Except for that, it’s working really well. (Thank you Joe and your team)
 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
 Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
 3905 Century Club - Master #47
 DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
 Licensed since 1974
 ___
 wsjt-devel mailing list
 wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all.  So if it ever 
bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and need to back 
off the USB Mod Level.
You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to 100W).
That is the goal of all rigssome of the newer rigs will show < 0dB ALC 
(e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really telling you. 
 The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power slider at -3dB, 
computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound to show 50W tranmit 
power going out.  That should be 0dB ALC and shows you what to expect when 
transmitting close to the 100W.  Many rigs cannot do 100W with no ALC so have 
to back off to 95W maximum or such.  So as you gradually increase the power 
slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch your ALC as you approach 100W.  
If you start seeing ALC you have to back off the audio level at the rig or 
external sound card so the WSJT-X slider can be at 0dB and no ALC showing.
de Mike W9MDB

 

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 12:06:34 PM CDT, Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:  
 
 If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC drop?  If 
so...that's too much audio.
Mike

 

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:57:44 AM CDT, Gene Marsh  wrote: 
 
 
 Mike,
My ALC is ~25% @80W.  But, I have no issues with transmit.  Only observing the 
double decode.  Everything else is good. 
73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service 
(PCARS)3905 Century Club - Master #47DV2/W8NET in the PhilippinesLicensed since 
1974
On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael  wrote:


I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayy too much audio.  What does 
your ALC meter say?
de Mike W9MDB

 

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:  
 
 Joe,
My setup:
Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:


-rc7IC-7300USB audio codec @66% volume
Need more info?
I will try to save a wav file next time I see it. 

73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service 
(PCARS)3905 Century Club - Master #47DV2/W8NET in the PhilippinesLicensed since 
1974
On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor  wrote:


Hi Gene,

I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please send us the 
.wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us something about your 
computer setup.

    -- 73, Joe, K1JT

On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:

FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding.  Always a strong signal. Example:


image1.png


I saw that in the early days of FT8.


  Except for that, it’s working really well. (Thank you Joe and your team)


73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”


Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)


3905 Century Club - Master #47


DV2/W8NET in the Philippines


Licensed since 1974


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC drop?  If 
so...that's too much audio.
Mike

 

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:57:44 AM CDT, Gene Marsh  wrote: 
 
 
 Mike,
My ALC is ~25% @80W.  But, I have no issues with transmit.  Only observing the 
double decode.  Everything else is good. 
73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service 
(PCARS)3905 Century Club - Master #47DV2/W8NET in the PhilippinesLicensed since 
1974
On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael  wrote:


I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayy too much audio.  What does 
your ALC meter say?
de Mike W9MDB

 

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:  
 
 Joe,
My setup:
Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:


-rc7IC-7300USB audio codec @66% volume
Need more info?
I will try to save a wav file next time I see it. 

73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service 
(PCARS)3905 Century Club - Master #47DV2/W8NET in the PhilippinesLicensed since 
1974
On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor  wrote:


Hi Gene,

I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please send us the 
.wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us something about your 
computer setup.

    -- 73, Joe, K1JT

On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:

FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding.  Always a strong signal. Example:


image1.png


I saw that in the early days of FT8.


  Except for that, it’s working really well. (Thank you Joe and your team)


73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”


Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)


3905 Century Club - Master #47


DV2/W8NET in the Philippines


Licensed since 1974


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel]

Yes, I did that - after I saw the doubles. Hopefully, I will catch it again. 

73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
3905 Century Club - Master #47
DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
Licensed since 1974

> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:43 PM, Joe Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Gene --
> 
> Remember that release candidates are intended for test purposes.  When 
> running any -rc# version, you should always run with "Save All" selected.  
> It's easy enough to delete all those unwanted files, later.
> 
>-- Joe, K1JT
> 
>> On 6/4/2019 12:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:
>> Joe,
>> My setup:
>> Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:
>> image1.jpeg
>> -rc7
>> IC-7300
>> USB audio codec @66% volume
>> Need more info?
>> I will try to save a wav file next time I see it.
>> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
>> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
>> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
>> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
>> Licensed since 1974
>>> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor >> > wrote:
>>> Hi Gene,
>>> 
>>> I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please send us 
>>> the .wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us something about 
>>> your computer setup.
>>> 
>>>-- 73, Joe, K1JT
>>> 
 On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:
 FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding.  Always a strong signal. 
 Example:
 image1.png
 I saw that in the early days of FT8.
  Except for that, it’s working really well. (Thank you Joe and your team)
 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
 Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
 3905 Century Club - Master #47
 DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
 Licensed since 1974
 ___
 wsjt-devel mailing list
 wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel]

Mike,

My ALC is ~25% @80W.  But, I have no issues with transmit.  Only observing the 
double decode.  Everything else is good. 

73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
3905 Century Club - Master #47
DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
Licensed since 1974

> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael  wrote:
> 
> I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayy too much audio.  What does 
> your ALC meter say?
> 
> de Mike W9MDB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Joe,
> 
> My setup:
> 
> Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:
> 
> 
> 
> -rc7
> IC-7300
> USB audio codec @66% volume
> 
> Need more info?
> 
> I will try to save a wav file next time I see it. 
> 
> 
> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
> Licensed since 1974
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor  wrote:
>> 
> 
>> Hi Gene,
>> 
>> I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please send us 
>> the .wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us something about 
>> your computer setup.
>> 
>>-- 73, Joe, K1JT
>> 
>>> On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:
>>> FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding.  Always a strong signal. 
>>> Example:
>>> image1.png
>>> I saw that in the early days of FT8.
>>>  Except for that, it’s working really well. (Thank you Joe and your team)
>>> 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
>>> Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
>>> 3905 Century Club - Master #47
>>> DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
>>> Licensed since 1974
>>> ___
>>> wsjt-devel mailing list
>>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>> 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Joe Taylor]

Gene --

Remember that release candidates are intended for test purposes.  When 
running any -rc# version, you should always run with "Save All" 
selected.  It's easy enough to delete all those unwanted files, later.


-- Joe, K1JT

On 6/4/2019 12:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:

Joe,

My setup:

Windows 10 Pro - see the pic:

image1.jpeg

-rc7
IC-7300
USB audio codec @66% volume

Need more info?

I will try to save a wav file next time I see it.


73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
3905 Century Club - Master #47
DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
Licensed since 1974

On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor > wrote:



Hi Gene,

I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please 
send us the .wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us 
something about your computer setup.


   -- 73, Joe, K1JT

On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:
FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding.  Always a strong signal. 
Example:

image1.png
I saw that in the early days of FT8.
 Except for that, it’s working really well. (Thank you Joe and your team)
73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
3905 Century Club - Master #47
DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
Licensed since 1974
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on decoding

[Joe Taylor]

Hi Gene,

I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report.  Please send 
us the .wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us something 
about your computer setup.


-- 73, Joe, K1JT

On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote:
FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding.  Always a strong signal. 
Example:


image1.png

I saw that in the early days of FT8.

  Except for that, it’s working really well. (Thank you Joe and your team)

73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene”
Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS)
3905 Century Club - Master #47
DV2/W8NET in the Philippines
Licensed since 1974


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