Re: [XeTeX] new use of alternate glyphs and how to turn them off

2010-10-17 Thread Andy Lin
Just to follow up, something really weird happens when using stylistic
sets 6 and 7: "dogstarman" becomes "doaaarrman". The two PDFs
demonstrate the difference between MiKTeX 2.8 and tl2010. Also see
http://gabriolan.ca/gabriola-font-variants/ for reference (MiKTeX
stumbles on ss06 and ss07, but not to the extent of tl2010).

-Andy

On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 19:31, Andy Lin  wrote:
> I've been seeing something different altogether. In addition to
> activating +calt by default, it also gives some strange output when
> using stylistic sets in Gabriola. I've attached 2 images:
> tl2010gabriola shows the behaviour with tl2010 (I just installed
> today), miktex28gabriola shows the correct output using MiKTeX2.8
>
> \font\gab="Gabriola:+ss04" at 60pt %+ss04,+calt for MiKTeX
> \gab flying dogstarman
> \bye
>
> These are the version lines from each log file.
> This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.9997.4 (Web2C 2010)
> (format=xetex 2010.10.17)
> This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.9995.1 (MiKTeX 2.8) (preloaded
> format=xetex 2010.10.17)
>
> Any thoughts as to how this would happen?
>
> -Andy
>


miktex28gabtest.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


tl2010gabtest.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] new use of alternate glyphs and how to turn them off

2010-10-17 Thread Andy Lin
I've been seeing something different altogether. In addition to
activating +calt by default, it also gives some strange output when
using stylistic sets in Gabriola. I've attached 2 images:
tl2010gabriola shows the behaviour with tl2010 (I just installed
today), miktex28gabriola shows the correct output using MiKTeX2.8

\font\gab="Gabriola:+ss04" at 60pt %+ss04,+calt for MiKTeX
\gab flying dogstarman
\bye

These are the version lines from each log file.
This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.9997.4 (Web2C 2010)
(format=xetex 2010.10.17)
This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.9995.1 (MiKTeX 2.8) (preloaded
format=xetex 2010.10.17)

Any thoughts as to how this would happen?

-Andy
<><>

--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread Arthur Reutenauer
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 12:10:32AM +0200, Peter Dyballa wrote:
> They're presumingly pdfTeX users.

  No.  Many users still use the ASCII quote in their documents (U+0027).
I see examples of that all the time, for instance (but it's really only
one example, among many others), in the e-mail I'm replying to.

>   With LuaTeX and XeTeX, and that's  
> probably the target of UTF-8 based hyphenation files

  Not at all.  The target for Unicode-based hyphenation patterns are
*all* TeX engines.  Patterns are converted on the fly for 8-bit TeX
engines.  Having a system that works for all the variants without
duplicating files was a prerequisite.

> And I've actually forgotten how to write 
> typographic quotes the complicated way.

  If you mean typing two single straight quotes (U+0027) to get the
usual reprentative glyph for the closing double quote (U+201D), it
really has nothing to do with the problem at hand.

> Which side effect(s) has making the ASCII quotes be typographic quotes?

  The one Jonathan mentions, to start with.

Arthur


--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread Peter Dyballa


Am 17.10.2010 um 23:34 schrieb Arthur Reutenauer:


 But the overwhelming majority of users still type in the ASCII quote
sign and this situation has to be taken in account


They're presumingly pdfTeX users. With LuaTeX and XeTeX, and that's  
probably the target of UTF-8 based hyphenation files, the users  
probably type what they want to see. And I've actually forgotten how  
to write typographic quotes the complicated way.


A change that would break the setup of almost all users is not  
acceptable.



Which side effect(s) has making the ASCII quotes be typographic quotes?

--
Greetings

  Pete

With Capitalism man exploits man. With communism it's the exact  
opposite.




--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
 http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd)



Arthur Reutenauer wrote:


On the other hand, why not do it right? "0027 is some ASCII 
single-high-vertical-short-line which was used in the middle-ages of text input to 
mean apostrophe, single quotation mark, prime, etc. Now that we have gone way past 
the french revolution (pun intended), why not enter those characters as they 
deserve? I find myself not using tex-text.map anymore, since terminals and editors 
can properly display all those nice glyphs directly.


   But the overwhelming majority of users still type in the ASCII quote
sign and this situation has to be taken in account -- at least by Mojca
and me who maintain the hyphenation patterns.  A change that would break
the setup of almost all users is not acceptable.


and (if I may add my 0,02 EUR), terminals and editors being able to properly
display all those nice glyphs directly isn't the slightest use to most of
us until "all those nice glyphs" appear as standard on the keyboard that
comes with one's PC !

Philip Taylor


--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
 http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread Arthur Reutenauer
> On the other hand, why not do it right? "0027 is some ASCII 
> single-high-vertical-short-line which was used in the middle-ages of text 
> input to mean apostrophe, single quotation mark, prime, etc. Now that we have 
> gone way past the french revolution (pun intended), why not enter those 
> characters as they deserve? I find myself not using tex-text.map anymore, 
> since terminals and editors can properly display all those nice glyphs 
> directly.

  But the overwhelming majority of users still type in the ASCII quote
sign and this situation has to be taken in account -- at least by Mojca
and me who maintain the hyphenation patterns.  A change that would break
the setup of almost all users is not acceptable.

Arthur


--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread Arthur Reutenauer
> Would setting
> 
>   \lccode "2019 = "27
> 
> be any help?

  Yes, that one line of code... But as you say, it has side effects as
well, which is why we didn't adopt it in hyph-utf8.

Arthur


--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread enrico . gregorio
> I'm in a rush now, so I cannot answer in too much extent, but what you
> observe is a "known problem that needs a nice idea to solve it" (or we
> can simply create and load another bunch of patterns) and it's present
> in both XeTeX and LuaTeX (only that it's mapped to quotation mark in
> LuaTeX). In 8-bit TeX every apostrophe looks like single quotation
> mark, while in TeX this is not true any more: it depends on whether
> you use tex-text or not. In one case you will get quotation mark, in
> the other you will get apostrophe, and hyphenation rules are now aware
> of that.
> 
> We would need to double all the hyphenation patterns to account for
> that case (including both apostrophe and quotation marks). An
> alternative would be to "explain to engine" that two characters
> hyphenate in exactly the same way. The latter is possible, but we
> never (managed to) implement it. It might be as simple as one 
> line of code though ...

Would \savinghyphcodes help? According to the documentation of
e-TeX, setting this parameter to a positive value would save the \lccode
values in effect during the execution of \patterns and e-TeX (so also
XeTeX and LuaTeX) would use those "frozen" values for hyphenation
purposes.

This would avoid the need of changing the \lccode of any character as
part of babel or polyglossia modules, Setting \lccode"2019=`\' and
\lccode`\'=`\' when French or Italian patterns are read in should also
avoid the need of pattern duplication. It is a problem also for Catalan
and some other languages,

Of course this can't be used in regular knuthian TeX, but it shouldn't be
an issue, since we are discussing about Unicode input.

Ciao
Enrico

--
Enrico Gregorio  + Dipartimento di Informatica  + Tel: +39 045 
8027937
enrico.grego...@univr.it + Università degli Studi di Verona +
(grego...@math.unipd.it) + Strada le Grazie 15 / I-37134 Verona + Fax: +39 045 
8027928




--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Error with latest expl3?

2010-10-17 Thread Herbert Schulz

On Oct 17, 2010, at 12:40 AM, Will Robertson wrote:

> On 2010-10-17 02:17:37 +1030, Herbert Schulz  said:
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2010, at 10:31 AM, enrico.grego...@univr.it wrote:
>>> \expandafter\let\csname intexpr_if_even:nTF\expandafter\endcsname
>>> \csname int_if_even:nTF\endcsname
>> That certainly fixes things here. Kind of ugly though. :-)
> 
> Oops, my fault, sorry.
> I missed a few lines in the compatibility code.
> 
>> I wish I could get my head around the expl3 stuff. Right now it only gives 
>> me headaches. It also still seems to be quite dynamic so we continuously end 
>> up with problems in packages that are used quite extensively. Eventually it 
>> will all stabilize.
> 
> Well, we try to avoid these problems but we've recently had a bad run. For 
> me, I'm trying to do too much so I'm making careless errors to often for my 
> liking. Sorry for the inconvenience,
> 
> Will

Howdy,

Just bringing it up, not being judgemental. :-)

Given all the projects you've been involved with in terms of xelatex, lualatex 
and the LaTeX3 Project not to even talk about your real work everything is 
rather amazing. Did you ever take any time off after finishing the thesis---or 
was the trip to SF you vacation? :-)

By the way, my real needs are fairly simple so many of these things don't 
effect work on the documents I produce. I just do random testing at times with 
some other fancier stuff that I can use as a reference, if I ever need it, and 
occasionally run into things.

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)






--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] what happened to etoolbox.sty?

2010-10-17 Thread Philipp Stephani

Am 17.10.2010 um 11:27 schrieb Roland Kuhn:

> 
> On Oct 17, 2010, at 11:04 , Philipp Stephani wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Am 17.10.2010 um 08:25 schrieb Roland Kuhn:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 17, 2010, at 00:53 , Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>> 
 
 On Oct 16, 2010, at 5:11 PM, Roland Kuhn wrote:
 
> I wanted to try out different approaches to the french hyphenation 
> problem involving apostrophes, thereby including
> 
> \usepackage[french]{polyglossia}
> 
> for the first time. The document fails to compile because etoolbox.sty 
> cannot be found. The description of the TL2010 package "etex-pkg" still 
> mentions it, but it contains no file of the name. In fact, "tlmgr search 
> --file etoolbox" does not turn up anythin. What's up?
> 
> Roland
> 
 
 Howdy,
 
 Doesn't
 
 kpsewhich etoolbox.sty
 
 return anything?
 
>>> nope, however, even though it had not been found by tlmgr I just issued 
>>> "tlmgr install etoolbox" which worked; then it was missing makecmds.sty :-( 
>>> It seems that there are several dependencies missing, so I'm giving up and 
>>> installing collection-latexextra, which I don't otherwise need.
>> 
>> TeX Live doesn't do any dependency management; installing a package doesn't 
>> install dependent packages.
> 
> This is in direct contradiction with the output of "tlmgr --help", but it 
> explains what I’m seeing.

I must admit I haven't read the sections about dependency management until now. 
In this light my statement is obviously wrong because there must be some kind 
of dependency management, but it doesn't seem to be exhaustive.


--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread Peter Dyballa


Am 17.10.2010 um 11:22 schrieb Roland Kuhn:

Well, konsole can do that, too, but all of them (AFAIK) put each  
nice and variable-width glyph at their assumed monospace location,  
which is the worst possible solution to my mind (and eyes).


GNU Emacs has an ANSI compliant terminal emulation. Modern versions  
like 23.x (or 24.0.x from BZR) can use proportional fonts in  
particular windows or frames.


--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

  Pete

Schön zu können, wenn man muss. – Always Ultra




--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
 http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Error with latest expl3?

2010-10-17 Thread Keith J. Schultz
Hi Will,

Do not worry about it. These things do happen and all is work in 
progress.
Also, it it was that easy we would not need you,  and appreciate your 
hard work so much!!

regards
Keith.

Am 17.10.2010 um 07:40 schrieb Will Robertson:

> 
> Well, we try to avoid these problems but we've recently had a bad run. For 
> me, I'm trying to do too much so I'm making careless errors to often for my 
> liking. Sorry for the inconvenience,




--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread Roland Kuhn

On Oct 17, 2010, at 11:29 , Cyril Niklaus wrote:

>> On 17 oct. 2010, at 17:09, Roland Kuhn wrote:
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2010, at 15:21 , Cyril Niklaus wrote:
>>> In the meantime, the "solution" I used was to change fonts…
>>> 
>> That basically disables hyphenation for this word, like would \/.
> I noticed that if I wrote l'in\-formation, it would then hyphenate at the 
> suggested point and not after the apostrophe.
> 
Basically, a “word” as seen by the hyphenation algorithm is a sequence of 
characters with non-zero \lccode, which are not immediately preceded or 
followed by “bad stuff” (e.g. characters with zero \lccode, \discretionary, 
explicit \kern, vertical mode material); this is the simplified version, see 
appendix H of the TeX Book for the exact details. This implies, BTW, that words 
which are joined by an explicit hyphen are not hyphenated because TeX inserts a 
\discretionary after each hyphen automatically.

Roland

--
I'm a physicist: I have a basic working knowledge of the universe and 
everything it contains!
- Sheldon Cooper (The Big Bang Theory)




--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread Paul Isambert

 Le 17/10/2010 11:29, Cyril Niklaus a écrit :

In the meantime, the "solution" I used was to change fonts…


That basically disables hyphenation for this word, like would \/.

I noticed that if I wrote l'in\-formation, it would then hyphenate at the 
suggested point and not after the apostrophe.


Yes, explicit hyphenation prevents TeX from hyphenating elsewhere.

Best,
Paul


--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
 http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread Cyril Niklaus
> On 17 oct. 2010, at 17:09, Roland Kuhn wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2010, at 15:21 , Cyril Niklaus wrote:
> 
>>> On 16 oct. 2010, at 20:57, Jonathan Kew wrote:
>>> 
>>> Would setting
>>> 
>>> \lccode "2019 = "27
>>> 
>>> be any help?
>> I do have it in the document preamble, to no effect (with straight or curled 
>> apostrophes).
>> 
> Well, setting \lccode"2019="0027 actually does fix this problem. Of course, 
> this needs to be done after polyglossia has had its say (e.g. after 
> \begin{document} or after your closest language changing command), because 
> gloss-french.ldf resets it. So, I think patching gloss-french.ldf would be 
> the minimal fix.

Oh, well I had it for years in the preamble… I did not know it would be reset.
A lot of my XeTeXting habits have accumulated over the years I've been using it 
but, as became obvious in this thread, they are not well founded in knowledge 
of the actual code itself, which results in silly mistakes like the placement 
of this lccode.
> 
> On the other hand, why not do it right? "0027 is some ASCII 
> single-high-vertical-short-line which was used in the middle-ages of text 
> input to mean apostrophe, single quotation mark, prime, etc. Now that we have 
> gone way past the french revolution (pun intended), why not enter those 
> characters as they deserve? I find myself not using tex-text.map anymore, 
> since terminals and editors can properly display all those nice glyphs 
> directly.
I agree, and I do make an effort to input the correct unicode glyphs in my 
documents, and I've not had a problem with displaying those glyphs. 
Nevertheless the curled apostrophe is an alt-shift combination, not that 
practical to input. I could make a search and replace as well, but in the case 
of that article I hadn't. It's why I usually use Mapping=tex-text.

>> In the meantime, the "solution" I used was to change fonts…
>> 
> That basically disables hyphenation for this word, like would \/.
I noticed that if I wrote l'in\-formation, it would then hyphenate at the 
suggested point and not after the apostrophe.

Thanks,
Cyril


--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] what happened to etoolbox.sty?

2010-10-17 Thread Roland Kuhn

On Oct 17, 2010, at 11:04 , Philipp Stephani wrote:

> 
> Am 17.10.2010 um 08:25 schrieb Roland Kuhn:
> 
>> 
>> On Oct 17, 2010, at 00:53 , Herbert Schulz wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2010, at 5:11 PM, Roland Kuhn wrote:
>>> 
 I wanted to try out different approaches to the french hyphenation problem 
 involving apostrophes, thereby including
 
 \usepackage[french]{polyglossia}
 
 for the first time. The document fails to compile because etoolbox.sty 
 cannot be found. The description of the TL2010 package "etex-pkg" still 
 mentions it, but it contains no file of the name. In fact, "tlmgr search 
 --file etoolbox" does not turn up anythin. What's up?
 
 Roland
 
>>> 
>>> Howdy,
>>> 
>>> Doesn't
>>> 
>>> kpsewhich etoolbox.sty
>>> 
>>> return anything?
>>> 
>> nope, however, even though it had not been found by tlmgr I just issued 
>> "tlmgr install etoolbox" which worked; then it was missing makecmds.sty :-( 
>> It seems that there are several dependencies missing, so I'm giving up and 
>> installing collection-latexextra, which I don't otherwise need.
> 
> TeX Live doesn't do any dependency management; installing a package doesn't 
> install dependent packages.

This is in direct contradiction with the output of "tlmgr --help", but it 
explains what I’m seeing.

Roland

--
I'm a physicist: I have a basic working knowledge of the universe and 
everything it contains!
- Sheldon Cooper (The Big Bang Theory)




--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread Roland Kuhn

On Oct 17, 2010, at 10:48 , Peter Dyballa wrote:

> Am 17.10.2010 um 10:09 schrieb Roland Kuhn:
> 
>> BTW: does anyone know a “terminal” which can use proportional fonts? That 
>> would be a nice compromise between Turing-complete language and 
>> intra-paragraph-WYSIWYG (I’m sorry to say that I’m basically married to vim).
> 
> 
> Xterm, uxterm, ...
> 
Well, konsole can do that, too, but all of them (AFAIK) put each nice and 
variable-width glyph at their assumed monospace location, which is the worst 
possible solution to my mind (and eyes). If I want tabular behavior, I use a 
monospace font. Maybe, at some point I may switch to some graphical text editor.

Roland

--
I'm a physicist: I have a basic working knowledge of the universe and 
everything it contains!
- Sheldon Cooper (The Big Bang Theory)




--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Localized XeLaTeX: was Greek XeLaTeX

2010-10-17 Thread Paul Isambert

 Le 17/10/2010 11:10, Ulrike Fischer a écrit :

Am Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:24:44 +0200 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:


Would this replace every occurence of "im" in the input? Including
the "im" in \scratchdimen, the "im" in the second 1im and the "im"
in immens?

Yes. This is why I said that the solution cannot work out-of-the-box
(it could work for a limited number of cases).



Another way is to use the string library from lua to replace μμ with mm:

They are a lot of way to replace two input chars by two others. My
editor (winedt) can do it in the background without any problems
when saving and restoring a file.

But this doesn't solve the problem that you don't want to replace
every occurrence of the two chars but only some - and that there
isn't a rule/regex or something like that to discern the one from
the other. What you would need is a primitive command or a callback
which allows to extend the list of units which can be used with
\vskip etc. As long as this doesn't exist you will have to mark one
of the sets somehow.


That would be a very good idea and I more or less feature-requested it 
this summer on the LuaTeX list. But the LuaTeX team already has much 
going on!
Besides localized units to solve the problem at hand here, one could 
define arbitrary units and use them as the basis of one's design. Or one 
could redefine existing units, for instance setting TeX's English point 
``pt'' to the Postscript point ``bp''.


Best,
Paul


--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
 http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Localized XeLaTeX: was Greek XeLaTeX

2010-10-17 Thread Ulrike Fischer
Am Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:24:44 +0200 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:

>>> Would this replace every occurence of "im" in the input? Including
>>> the "im" in \scratchdimen, the "im" in the second 1im and the "im"
>>> in immens?
>> 
>> Yes. This is why I said that the solution cannot work out-of-the-box
>> (it could work for a limited number of cases).
 
> Another way is to use the string library from lua to replace μμ with mm:

They are a lot of way to replace two input chars by two others. My
editor (winedt) can do it in the background without any problems
when saving and restoring a file. 

But this doesn't solve the problem that you don't want to replace
every occurrence of the two chars but only some - and that there
isn't a rule/regex or something like that to discern the one from
the other. What you would need is a primitive command or a callback
which allows to extend the list of units which can be used with
\vskip etc. As long as this doesn't exist you will have to mark one
of the sets somehow. 


-- 
Ulrike Fischer 



--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] what happened to etoolbox.sty?

2010-10-17 Thread Philipp Stephani

Am 17.10.2010 um 08:25 schrieb Roland Kuhn:

> 
> On Oct 17, 2010, at 00:53 , Herbert Schulz wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Oct 16, 2010, at 5:11 PM, Roland Kuhn wrote:
>> 
>>> I wanted to try out different approaches to the french hyphenation problem 
>>> involving apostrophes, thereby including
>>> 
>>> \usepackage[french]{polyglossia}
>>> 
>>> for the first time. The document fails to compile because etoolbox.sty 
>>> cannot be found. The description of the TL2010 package "etex-pkg" still 
>>> mentions it, but it contains no file of the name. In fact, "tlmgr search 
>>> --file etoolbox" does not turn up anythin. What's up?
>>> 
>>> Roland
>>> 
>> 
>> Howdy,
>> 
>> Doesn't
>> 
>> kpsewhich etoolbox.sty
>> 
>> return anything?
>> 
> nope, however, even though it had not been found by tlmgr I just issued 
> "tlmgr install etoolbox" which worked; then it was missing makecmds.sty :-( 
> It seems that there are several dependencies missing, so I'm giving up and 
> installing collection-latexextra, which I don't otherwise need.

TeX Live doesn't do any dependency management; installing a package doesn't 
install dependent packages.


--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread Peter Dyballa


Am 17.10.2010 um 10:09 schrieb Roland Kuhn:

BTW: does anyone know a “terminal” which can use proportional fonts?  
That would be a nice compromise between Turing-complete language and  
intra-paragraph-WYSIWYG (I’m sorry to say that I’m basically married  
to vim).



Xterm, uxterm, ...

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

  Pete

Alle reden vom Wetter - die Bahn fährt nicht.




--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
 http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex


Re: [XeTeX] Strange hyphenation with polyglossia in French

2010-10-17 Thread Roland Kuhn
On Oct 16, 2010, at 15:21 , Cyril Niklaus wrote:

> On 16 oct. 2010, at 19:44, enrico.grego...@univr.it wrote:
> 
>> It's quite subtle, I believe. There are no patterns containing U+2019 (RIGHT
>> SINGLE QUOTATION MARK), into which each apostrophe is changed by
>> tex-text.map; so the pattern "1informat" comes into play, creating a 
>> hyphenation
>> point in "l'information" just after the character U+2019.
>> 
> […]
>> Indeed, also "l'alcool" gets hyphenated as "l’-al-cool", as there is the 
>> pattern "1alcool"
>> on line 126 of hyph-fr.tex
>> This is a problem which should be examined by the "hyphenation pattern team":
>> all patterns containing the apostrophe should be duplicated with U+2019 in 
>> its place.
>> It may show its effects also in Italian and all other languages where the 
>> apostrophe
>> gets a nonzero \lccode for hyphenation purposes.
> and 
> On 16 oct. 2010, at 20:42, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>> what you
>> observe is a "known problem that needs a nice idea to solve it" (or we
>> can simply create and load another bunch of patterns) and it's present
>> in both XeTeX and LuaTeX (only that it's mapped to quotation mark in
>> LuaTeX).
> […]
>> We would need to double all the hyphenation patterns to account for
>> that case (including both apostrophe and quotation marks). An
>> alternative would be to "explain to engine" that two characters
>> hyphenate in exactly the same way. The latter is possible, but we
>> never (managed to) implement it. It might be as simple as one line of
>> code though ...
> 
> OK, so I understand the nature of the problem now, thanks to all of you.
> As much as I would like to find that one line of code, my coding skills are 
> inexistent unfortunately, and I could never produce what the great minds on 
> this list have made. If I somehow reach illumination and find a way to deal 
> with this, I will of course let you know.
> 
> On 16 oct. 2010, at 20:57, Jonathan Kew wrote:
>> 
>> Would setting
>> 
>> \lccode "2019 = "27
>> 
>> be any help?
> I do have it in the document preamble, to no effect (with straight or curled 
> apostrophes).
> 
Well, setting \lccode"2019="0027 actually does fix this problem. Of course, 
this needs to be done after polyglossia has had its say (e.g. after 
\begin{document} or after your closest language changing command), because 
gloss-french.ldf resets it. So, I think patching gloss-french.ldf would be the 
minimal fix.

On the other hand, why not do it right? "0027 is some ASCII 
single-high-vertical-short-line which was used in the middle-ages of text input 
to mean apostrophe, single quotation mark, prime, etc. Now that we have gone 
way past the french revolution (pun intended), why not enter those characters 
as they deserve? I find myself not using tex-text.map anymore, since terminals 
and editors can properly display all those nice glyphs directly.

BTW: does anyone know a “terminal” which can use proportional fonts? That would 
be a nice compromise between Turing-complete language and 
intra-paragraph-WYSIWYG (I’m sorry to say that I’m basically married to vim).

> In the meantime, the "solution" I used was to change fonts…
> 
That basically disables hyphenation for this word, like would \/.

Roland

--
Simplicity and elegance are unpopular because they require hard work and 
discipline to achieve and education to be appreciated.
  -- Dijkstra




--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex