Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Petr Tomasek]

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 06:00:41PM -0400, Joel C. Salomon wrote:
> On 06/11/2011 05:32 AM, Vafa Khalighi wrote:
> > So Iranians from the first day called their country Eran or Iran and
> > Greeks and West world called it Persia. There is no disagreement between
> > Iranians for the English version of the language. All Iranians believe
> > that the language should be called Persian in English.
> 
> The Biblical books that deal with Persia call it "Paras"; the Talmud
> (written in nearby Babylonia c. 500 CE) refers to someone who comes from
> there as a "Parsi".

Well, but one should consider that in hebrew (at least in the late dialects
of which we know the exact pronunciation) as well as in some aramaic dialects
(syriac, for example) "p" and "f" are allophones. :-)

> There may have also been a distinction between the name for the region
> as opposed to the name of the empire, making the situation somewhat less
> clear.
> 
> --Joel

-- 
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Jabber: but...@jabbim.cz


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Joel C. Salomon]

On 06/11/2011 05:32 AM, Vafa Khalighi wrote:
> So Iranians from the first day called their country Eran or Iran and
> Greeks and West world called it Persia. There is no disagreement between
> Iranians for the English version of the language. All Iranians believe
> that the language should be called Persian in English.

The Biblical books that deal with Persia call it "Paras"; the Talmud
(written in nearby Babylonia c. 500 CE) refers to someone who comes from
there as a "Parsi".

There may have also been a distinction between the name for the region
as opposed to the name of the empire, making the situation somewhat less
clear.

--Joel


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Vafa Khalighi]

>
> That's so silly that you better return to kindergarten!
>
> Homosexuality exists world-wide as a natural phenomenon, as is the colour
> of eyes (or the language or the script). Some cultures are great and
> tolerant, some (Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, TV preachers) are not.
>
>
good for you!


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Vafa Khalighi]

> Can you name one single movie of Hollywood which was not offensive to
> Persians?
>
>
> Err, Terminator?
>


You really did not understand the question or you are trying to make fun?


>
>
>   or Let me ask my question the other way, Can you name a movie that has
> been made about any of Persian heros? A movie about Cyrus the great? a movie
> about Dariush the great? a movie about Ariobarzanes? A movie about Surena?
> and the list goes on.
>
>
>
> There are many unsung `heroes' in Hollywood.
>


but there were some Greek heros that they could make movie about them,
strange!



> That is absolutely stupid. Homosexuality (if one can conflate what this
> term denotes now and a reality more than 2000-year old) existed in ancient
> Greece, but elsewhere too.
> How do you expect to be respected and well-considered if you go on with
> such prejudice yourself?
>


That was not what I meant. He said Greeks were unhappy because in the movie,
they showed Alexander a homesexual. What I meant was that The first
homosexuals were officially (or what other word that best describes it)
found in Greece, I did not say they did not exist in Iran.


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Apostolos Syropoulos]

Hi Phil,

All I wanted to say is that educated people should not take
too seriously movies etc. No further comment.

A.S.




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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 11.06.2011 um 16:23 schrieb Vafa Khalighi:


Further homosexuality originated from Greece.



That's so silly that you better return to kindergarten!

Homosexuality exists world-wide as a natural phenomenon, as is the  
colour of eyes (or the language or the script). Some cultures are  
great and tolerant, some (Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, TV preachers)  
are not.


--
Greetings

  Pete

Some day we may discover how to make magnets that can point in any  
direction.




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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Paul Isambert]

Le 11/06/2011 16:23, Vafa Khalighi a écrit :



The problem is that some people think they are the center of the
universe and the rest

have only one purpose: to harm them!


Can you name one single movie of Hollywood which was not offensive to 
Persians?


Err, Terminator?

or Let me ask my question the other way, Can you name a movie that has 
been made about any of Persian heros? A movie about Cyrus the great? a 
movie about Dariush the great? a movie about Ariobarzanes? A movie 
about Surena? and the list goes on.



There are many unsung `heroes' in Hollywood.



Let me say that some people here in Greece

did not like the movie either because Alexander was portraited as
a homosexual. 




Well, history says he was.


Historians debate, at best. Homesexuality might not even be a 
well-defined concept in that respect.



Further homosexuality originated from Greece.


That is absolutely stupid. Homosexuality (if one can conflate what this 
term denotes now and a reality more than 2000-year old) existed in 
ancient Greece, but elsewhere too.
How do you expect to be respected and well-considered if you go on with 
such prejudice yourself?


No one can deny that Alexander burnt Perspolis and killed many 
innocent Persian, so much for an angel.


Conquerors are seldom angels, no matter whether we're talking about 
Alexander, Napoleon -- or Darius, for that matter. That some people find 
them fascinating nonetheless is a frightening trait of the human species.




Of course
you could say the similar things about the "300" movie/comic book,
but you and many/some

of my compatriots should realize that artists should be freeto
express themselves.



Artists can be free to do whatever they want as long as they do not 
try to make bogus!


Artist are free to express themselves; /we/ shouldn't mistake them for 
historians.


Best,
Paul


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Vafa, Apostolos : it is my fault more than any that this off-topic
thread has taken off, but if we must continue with it, could it
least be restricted to matters linguistic rather where it is
currently heading ?

** Phil.


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Vafa Khalighi]

>
> The problem is that some people think they are the center of the universe
> and the rest
>
> have only one purpose: to harm them!


Can you name one single movie of Hollywood which was not offensive to
Persians? or Let me ask my question the other way, Can you name a movie that
has been made about any of Persian heros? A movie about Cyrus the great? a
movie about Dariush the great? a movie about Ariobarzanes? A movie about
Surena? and the list goes on.



> Let me say that some people here in Greece
>
> did not like the movie either because Alexander was portraited as a
> homosexual.




Well, history says he was. Further homosexuality originated from Greece. No
one can deny that Alexander burnt Perspolis and killed many innocent
Persian, so much for an angel.


> Of course
> you could say the similar things about the "300" movie/comic book, but you
> and many/some
>
> of my compatriots should realize that artists should be freeto express
> themselves.
>
>
>
Artists can be free to do whatever they want as long as they do not try to
make bogus!


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Apostolos Syropoulos]

> One obvious example is the films that has been made about Ancient Persians, 
> for 
instance 
> in the film "Alexander" made in 2004, they introduce Persians 
as cruel and Bloodthirsty 
> and on the other hand they introduce Greeks as angels. So we simply can not 
> trust West!

The problem is that some people think they are the center of the universe and 
the rest

have only one purpose: to harm them! Let me say that some people here in Greece 

did not like the movie either because Alexander was portraited as a homosexual. 
Of course
you could say the similar things about the "300" movie/comic book, but you and 
many/some

of my compatriots should realize that artists should be freeto express 
themselves. 


A.S.


--
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Xanthi, Greece


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Vafa Khalighi]

Thanks Gareth for sharing your knowledge. However, we never adopted Arabic
as our language. After Arabs conquest, we spoke Arabic for 200 years but
then Yaghoug Leith Saffari made the Persian language, the official language
again. He is known as the father of Dari Persian. The main sensetivity
between Iranians about the use of Farsi instead Persian is that, West always
has tried its best to be anti-Iranian. One obvious example is the films that
has been made about Ancient Persians, for instance in the film "Alexander"
made in 2004, they introduce Persians as cruel and Bloodthirsty and on the
other hand they introduce Greeks as angels. So we simply can not trust West!


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Vafa Khalighi]

> Fine, that clarifies matters perfectly !
>

I did not mean to be rude and if that is how it looked, then I apologise
from the bottom of my heart. Maybe I should have said few more words about
this. Our nation do not have any good memory with British and this has made
us very sensitives so maybe it would not matter for you if you call our
language Persian or Farsi but it is very important to us and 

If you believe I am wrong, then please have a look at the recent history of
Iran related to Britain.


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Gareth Hughes]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I've been learning Middle Persian or Pahlavi (never Middle Farsi or
Fahlabi!). The language is called Pārsīg (p'lsyk) at that period. The
adoption of the spelling with F is an arabicisation during the Islamic
period. Then, Arabic became the prestige language of Persia due to its
religious and political dominance. Arabic has no P (you can drink Bibsi
if you don't drink Kuka Kula), so the Arabic name of the language is
Fārsī, and this spelling and pronunciation became standard in Persian
(as noted by the 'Fârsi' in the title of the academy). However, the
spelling and pronunciation Pârsi is sometimes used, often as a conscious
de-arabicisation, and always (?) by Zoroastrians. Some in the Persian
diaspora, particularly after the revolution, popularised the use of
'Farsi' as the name of the language internationally, but linguists, both
within and without Iran, continue to use 'Persian' as the English name
of the language at all stages of its history. Using 'Farsi' in English
is a bit like talking about 'Français' or, as Vafa mentioned, 'Türkçe'
(note spelling). As you can see, politics is a major determinant on
language naming.

Gareth.

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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Gareth Hughes]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I've been learning Middle Persian or Pahlavi (never Middle Farsi or
Fahlabi!). The language is called Pārsīg (p'lsyk) at that period. The
adoption of the spelling with F is an arabicisation during the Islamic
period. Then, Arabic became the prestige language of Persia due to its
religious and political dominance. Arabic has no P (you can drink Bibsi
if you don't drink Kuka Kula), so the Arabic name of the language is
Fārsī, and this spelling and pronunciation became standard in Persian
(as noted by the 'Fârsi' in the title of the academy). However, the
spelling and pronunciation Pârsi is sometimes used, often as a conscious
de-arabicisation, and always (?) by Zoroastrians. Some in the Persian
diaspora, particularly after the revolution, popularised the use of
'Farsi' as the name of the language internationally, but linguists, both
within and without Iran, continue to use 'Persian' as the English name
of the language at all stages of its history. Using 'Farsi' in English
is a bit like talking about 'Français' or, as Vafa mentioned, 'Türkçe'
(note spelling). As you can see, politics is a major determinant on
language naming.

Gareth.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iD8DBQFN81bF9UDttp8yrx4RAuhdAJ9jb5CsYLQsiz7OjrJ0ZzoV3KXDXwCfQ+6q
MoW1wfmTgrg2MBpWhPAfAwU=
=qbvT
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Georg Duffner]

On 2011-06-11 11:29, John Was wrote:

I would say the situation is always fluid in the nomenclature employed for 
foreign names, languages, and places - in English, at any rate.  I'm sure the 
inhabitants of Livorno would be a little upset if English-speakers still 
referred to it as Leghorn (likewise Braunschweig/Brunswick, and innumerable 
others).  As a matter of politeness, if those speaking the language say that 
they would be happier to hear English-speakers use the word 'Persian', I'm sure 
most English-speakers would go along with that.  They probably only started to 
say 'Farsi' because they thought that's what the speakers of the language would 
rather hear them use.


As Alan Munn the article referenced by Vafa state, this is a rather 
political question. Iranians asking to have their language called farsi 
do so for political reasons. So the usage of the term farsi in English, 
French or German (and many others) transports a political 
message—perhaps not transparent for Americans and Europeans, but surely 
so for Iranians.



Interestingly, it doesn't seem to work quite like this in languages other than 
English.  I don't think the French could be easily persuaded to refer to the 
British capital as London rather than Londres, nor do the British (as far as I 
know) have any desire to impose 'London' on those foreign languages that use 
their own form.  But English seems in general willing to adapt to the form that 
speakers of foreign languages would prefer English-speakers to use.


Please don’t say that, it’s chauvinistic and not true at all. Would you 
switch to [pa'ri] instead of ['pæris] for the french capital or say 
[vi:n] instead of [viena]?



It certainly isn't up to the speakers of one language to tell the speakers of 
another language which form they _must_ use - but it ought to be enough to 
express a preference, and then I think the deprecated form will naturally fade 
out of use, in the interests of harmonious human relations, which seem to be in 
pretty short supply (even at times on this list).
John


Don’t forget: much of this is a matter of politics!

Georg



   - Original Message -
   From: Vafa Khalighi
   To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other platforms
   Sent: 11 June 2011 10:09
   Subject: Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi


   OK, understood, but I also feel that it rather begs the question (the English

 name, that is, not your answer).  Because if the received wisdom were that 
the
 preferred English name for the language  was Farsi and not Persian, then
 the English name of the Academy would surely be the the “Academy of Farsi
 Language and Literature”, would it not ?  So it is a sort of 
self-fulfilling prophesy :

   What is the historical name of the language of Persian nation in the west? 
is it Farsi or Persian? Was it Persian empire or Farsian Empire?



 the Academy of Persian Language and Literature "clearly advocates the use 
of

 the word 'Persian' not 'Farsi'", because if it did not, it would call 
itself (in English)
 the "Academy of Farsi Language and Literature" !

 But if the Persian name for the Persian language is, in transliteration, 
Fārsī,
 is it really logical for the Persian nation (or should I here be writing 
"Iranian" ?
 This is quite a linguistic minefield) to seek to tell the West that while 
it
 is perfectly normal for a Persian (Iranian) to call his language Fārsī, we 
in the
 west must call it Persian ?!



   Why not?





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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Vafa Khalighi wrote:

Philip Taylor wrote :



What gives the people of one nation the right to tell the people
of another
nation what the latter must call the language of the former ?


The same right that allowed British conspiracies in Iran for the past 
200 years.


Fine, that clarifies matters perfectly !
** Phil.


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Vafa Khalighi]

Persian, as you well know.  But now we are asked to call the country "Iran",

> and the people "Iranian", so preferred names can change.  And while it is
> most certainly not for me to say whether "Persian" or "Farsi" is the better
> name
> for the language today, if there is disagreement amongst the Iranian people
> themselves then all is not as clear-cut as it might be.
>

The name of Iran is the Modern
Persianderivative from
the
Proto-Iranian  term *Aryānā,*,
meaning "Land of the Aryans ", first
attested in Zoroastrianism 's
Avesta  tradition. The term *Ērān* is
found to refer to Iran in a 3rd
century
Sassanid  inscription, and the
Parthian  inscription that
accompanies it uses the Parthian term "aryān" in reference to
*Iranians*.However
historically Iran has been referred to as Persia or similar (
*La Perse, Persien, Perzië, etc.*) by the Western
world,
mainly due to the writings of Greek historians who called Iran
*Persēs*(Πέρσης), meaning land of the
Persians .[1]


So Iranians from the first day called their country Eran or Iran and Greeks
and West world called it Persia. There is no disagreement between Iranians
for the English version of the language. All Iranians believe that the
language should be called Persian in English.



>
>
> What gives the people of one nation the right to tell the people of another
> nation what the latter must call the language of the former ?  The people
> from the Netherlands don't seek to tell us we must call their language
> "Nederlands"; they know that we call it "Dutch", and their country
> "Holland",
> and even if both of these are indefensible in terms of logic, it is simply
> the *status quo*.
>
>
>
The same right that allowed British conspiracies in Iran for the past 200
years.


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[John Was]

I would say the situation is always fluid in the nomenclature employed for 
foreign names, languages, and places - in English, at any rate.  I'm sure the 
inhabitants of Livorno would be a little upset if English-speakers still 
referred to it as Leghorn (likewise Braunschweig/Brunswick, and innumerable 
others).  As a matter of politeness, if those speaking the language say that 
they would be happier to hear English-speakers use the word 'Persian', I'm sure 
most English-speakers would go along with that.  They probably only started to 
say 'Farsi' because they thought that's what the speakers of the language would 
rather hear them use.

Interestingly, it doesn't seem to work quite like this in languages other than 
English.  I don't think the French could be easily persuaded to refer to the 
British capital as London rather than Londres, nor do the British (as far as I 
know) have any desire to impose 'London' on those foreign languages that use 
their own form.  But English seems in general willing to adapt to the form that 
speakers of foreign languages would prefer English-speakers to use.

It certainly isn't up to the speakers of one language to tell the speakers of 
another language which form they _must_ use - but it ought to be enough to 
express a preference, and then I think the deprecated form will naturally fade 
out of use, in the interests of harmonious human relations, which seem to be in 
pretty short supply (even at times on this list).

John

  - Original Message - 
  From: Vafa Khalighi 
  To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other platforms 
  Sent: 11 June 2011 10:09
  Subject: Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi


  OK, understood, but I also feel that it rather begs the question (the English

name, that is, not your answer).  Because if the received wisdom were that 
the
preferred English name for the language  was Farsi and not Persian, then
the English name of the Academy would surely be the the “Academy of Farsi 
Language and Literature”, would it not ?  So it is a sort of 
self-fulfilling prophesy :

  What is the historical name of the language of Persian nation in the west? is 
it Farsi or Persian? Was it Persian empire or Farsian Empire?

   

the Academy of Persian Language and Literature "clearly advocates the use 
of 

the word 'Persian' not 'Farsi'", because if it did not, it would call 
itself (in English)
the "Academy of Farsi Language and Literature" !

But if the Persian name for the Persian language is, in transliteration, 
Fārsī, 
is it really logical for the Persian nation (or should I here be writing 
"Iranian" ?  
This is quite a linguistic minefield) to seek to tell the West that while 
it 
is perfectly normal for a Persian (Iranian) to call his language Fārsī, we 
in the 
west must call it Persian ?!



  Why not? 





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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Vafa Khalighi wrote:



What is the historical name of the language of Persian nation in the 
west? is it Farsi or Persian? Was it Persian empire or Farsian Empire?


Persian, as you well know.  But now we are asked to call the country "Iran",
and the people "Iranian", so preferred names can change.  And while it is
most certainly not for me to say whether "Persian" or "Farsi" is the 
better name

for the language today, if there is disagreement amongst the Iranian people
themselves then all is not as clear-cut as it might be.



But if the Persian name for the Persian language is, in 
transliteration, /Fārsī/,
is it really logical for the Persian nation (or should I here be 
writing "Iranian" ?
This is quite a linguistic minefield) to seek to tell the West that 
while it
is perfectly normal for a Persian (Iranian) to call his language 
/Fārsī/, we in the

west must call it Persian ?!

Why not?

What gives the people of one nation the right to tell the people of another
nation what the latter must call the language of the former ?  The people
from the Netherlands don't seek to tell us we must call their language
"Nederlands"; they know that we call it "Dutch", and their country 
"Holland",

and even if both of these are indefensible in terms of logic, it is simply
the /status quo/.

** Phil.


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Vafa Khalighi]

>
>> But if the Persian name for the Persian language is, in transliteration,
>> *Fārsī*,
>> is it really logical for the Persian nation (or should I here be writing
>> "Iranian" ?
>> This is quite a linguistic minefield) to seek to tell the West that while
>> it
>> is perfectly normal for a Persian (Iranian) to call his language *Fārsī*,
>> we in the
>> west must call it Persian ?!
>>
>>
> Why not?
>
>
People of Turkey call their language Turkce, while the language name in
English is Turkish, will you say "he speaks Turkce" or you say "he speaks
Turkish"?


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Vafa Khalighi]

OK, understood, but I also feel that it rather begs the question (the
English

> name, that is, not your answer).  Because if the received wisdom were that
> the
> preferred English name for the language  was Farsi and not Persian, then
> the English name of the Academy would surely be the the “Academy of Farsi
> Language and Literature”, would it not ?  So it is a sort of
> self-fulfilling prophesy :
>

What is the historical name of the language of Persian nation in the west?
is it Farsi or Persian? Was it Persian empire or Farsian Empire?



>
> the Academy of Persian Language and Literature "clearly advocates the use
> of
> the word 'Persian' not 'Farsi'", because if it did not, it would call
> itself (in English)
> the "Academy of Farsi Language and Literature" !
>
> But if the Persian name for the Persian language is, in transliteration, *
> Fārsī*,
> is it really logical for the Persian nation (or should I here be writing
> "Iranian" ?
> This is quite a linguistic minefield) to seek to tell the West that while
> it
> is perfectly normal for a Persian (Iranian) to call his language *Fārsī*,
> we in the
> west must call it Persian ?!
>
>
Why not?


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Georg Duffner wrote:

On 2011-06-11 10:27, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:


If the Academy of Persian Language and Literature "clearly advocates
the use of the word 'Persian' not 'Farsi'
",
why does it then use the
word 'Farsi' in its own name ("Farhangesta-n-e Zaba-n va Adab-e
*Fa-rsi-*") ?



Because persian in persian is called farsi (فارسی). During its 
evolution persian /p/ has become /f/, so some old persian *parsi 
became farsi in modern persian.


Using the word farsi in its english translation like “Academy of Farsi 
Language and Literature” would be like callig the Rat für deutsche 
Rechtschreibung “Council for Deutsch Orthography”, which would be 
equally wierd as calling it in german “Rat für german Rechtschreibung”.


Georg


OK, understood, but I also feel that it rather begs the question (the 
English
name, that is, not your answer).  Because if the received wisdom were 
that the

preferred English name for the language  was Farsi and not Persian, then
the English name of the Academy would surely be the the “Academy of Farsi
Language and Literature”, would it not ?  So it is a sort of 
self-fulfilling prophesy :
the Academy of Persian Language and Literature "clearly advocates the 
use of
the word 'Persian' not 'Farsi'", because if it did not, it would call 
itself (in English)

the "Academy of Farsi Language and Literature" !

But if the Persian name for the Persian language is, in transliteration, 
/Fārsī/,
is it really logical for the Persian nation (or should I here be writing 
"Iranian" ?
This is quite a linguistic minefield) to seek to tell the West that 
while it
is perfectly normal for a Persian (Iranian) to call his language 
/Fārsī/, we in the

west must call it Persian ?!

** Phil.

Philip Taylor


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Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Georg Duffner]

On 2011-06-11 10:27, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:


If the Academy of Persian Language and Literature "clearly advocates
the use of the word 'Persian' not 'Farsi'
",
why does it then use the
word 'Farsi' in its own name ("Farhangesta-n-e Zaba-n va Adab-e
*Fa-rsi-*") ?



Because persian in persian is called farsi (فارسی). During its evolution 
persian /p/ has become /f/, so some old persian *parsi became farsi in 
modern persian.


Using the word farsi in its english translation like “Academy of Farsi 
Language and Literature” would be like callig the Rat für deutsche 
Rechtschreibung “Council for Deutsch Orthography”, which would be 
equally wierd as calling it in german “Rat für german Rechtschreibung”.


Georg


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[XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Vafa Khalighi wrote:
A while ago, I insisted on using the word "Persian" instead "Farsi". 
My friend, Shapour * *Suren-Pahlav from the circle of ancient Iranian 
studies has written an article about this. You can see his article 
here: http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Languages/persian_not_farsi.htm


My earlier response to Vafa's message was, of course, in the spirit of jest;
however, a rather more interesting and salient point emerges from the
very article that Vafa cites :

This is underlined by the Academy of Persian Language and Literature 
(Farhangesta-n-e Zaba-n va Adab-e Fa-rsi-) in Iran which clearly 
advocates the use of the word 'Persian' not 'Farsi'^[46] 
:


If the Academy of Persian Language and Literature "clearly advocates
the use of the word 'Persian' not 'Farsi' 
", 
why does it then use the
word 'Farsi' in its own name ("Farhangesta-n-e Zaba-n va Adab-e 
*Fa-rsi-*") ?


Philip Taylor



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