Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Yves Codet]

Hello.

I was sent some useful information about hyphenation in Malayalam script and 
I'm modifying "hyph-sa.tex" accordingly. If there's a specialist around 
(dinosaur or mammal, it doesn't matter in this case), it would help me a lot if 
he could answer the following questions.

Can a chillu character occur elsewhere than at the end of a word? What I want 
to know is if rules about chillus should be (with ൻ as an example):
2ൻ.
or more generally:
2ൻ

For compatibility reasons, the Unicode standard says that representations prior 
to 5.1 should be handled as well. But if I type, say, NA + VIRAMA + ZWJ, I 
don't see a "chillu na" on my screen, but a "na with virama"; in other words, 
when I type the ZWJ it doesn't change anything. Is it because the older 
representation isn't implemented in my font? Could anybody who has a 
dinosaurian Malayalam font tell me if he sees a "chillu na" below?

ന്‍

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Yves




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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Dominik Wujastyk wrote :

> Ah, when one had to wear a suit to approach a computer

A friend of mine applied for a job at IBM (this some forty years
ago); having asked a number of questions relating to his
technical knowledge, the interviewer then asked the crucial
question on which his acceptance (or otherwise) would hang :

"And how many suits do you own, Mr L (apart from the
one that you are wearing, that is) ?"

Fortunately J*** (being far more sartorially aware than most
of his friends) was able to respond "three" (probably "three,
Sir", in those days) and was immediately offered the job.
He is still with IBM today !

and later wrote :


> Now I come to think of it, at that 1993 meeting at RHBNC, I seem to recall
> that one of the participants was glowing with pride because he had with him
> a portable computer that was running unix.
>
> I say "portable", but his legs were buckled at the knee as he staggered
> around, and the strap dug a deep channel in his shoulder.
>
> The machine itself opened up like a notebook.  In my memory, it was about
> the size of a picnic table.

Sounds like J** H** to me ...

> Still, although risible by today's standards, I think we were all a bit
> envious.  (Which is the real point of computers, after all.)
>
> Does that ring a bell at all?

Hmm, not convinced (see below)

> I was put in mind of it because someone just posted to this discussion from
> their mobile phone.  I have an Android phone, which is Linux in my pocket.

If you look closely at the photographs I took yesterday (keyboard, monitor,
slide rules, etc), you will probably be able to make out two mobile
telephones : a Motorola Timeport (circa 1999) and a Nokia (circa
2001).  They both make and receive telephone calls, which is all
that I ask of a mobile 'phone; anything else better accomplished
by more appropriate devices (such as an OM4Ti, for taking photographs) !

** Phil.




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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[wodzicki]

> Now I come to think of it, at that 1993 meeting at RHBNC, I seem to recall
> that one of the participants was glowing with pride because he had with
> him
> a portable computer that was running unix.
>
> I say "portable", but his legs were buckled at the knee as he staggered
> around, and the strap dug a deep channel in his shoulder.
>
> The machine itself opened up like a notebook.  In my memory, it was about
> the size of a picnic table.

You are probably talking about a portable SUN. In 1992 I already got a
Sparcbook with SUN OS. In terms of weight and dimensions it was absolutely
comparable with subnotebooks that were produced just 4 years ago. It was a
great little computer.

Mariusz



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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Dominik Wujastyk]

Phil,

Now I come to think of it, at that 1993 meeting at RHBNC, I seem to recall
that one of the participants was glowing with pride because he had with him
a portable computer that was running unix.

I say "portable", but his legs were buckled at the knee as he staggered
around, and the strap dug a deep channel in his shoulder.

The machine itself opened up like a notebook.  In my memory, it was about
the size of a picnic table.

Still, although risible by today's standards, I think we were all a bit
envious.  (Which is the real point of computers, after all.)

Does that ring a bell at all?

I was put in mind of it because someone just posted to this discussion from
their mobile phone.  I have an Android phone, which is Linux in my pocket.
Amazing, when you think.

Dom


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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Dominik Wujastyk]

Ah, when one had to wear a suit to approach a computer :-)


On 13 September 2011 07:05, Janusz S. Bień  wrote:

>   http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/wydzial/zdjecia/zosk/
>
>


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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Pander]

On 2011-09-13 07:43, Shrisha Rao wrote:

El sep 13, 2011, a las 3:00 a.m., Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) escribió:


Tobias Schoel wrote:

Shouldn't real dinosaurs (real as in MTV Real Life) calculate using only the 
Peano Axioms and the unary system? I mean, the natural numbers and the peano 
axioms are nature given / god given (choose whatever you like) and every human 
before homo sapiens had only the cognitive capabilities to use the unary 
system: “Hey, I saw | deer, let's go hunt them.” “Oh no, I saw ||| lions, 
they would kill us.”


Are you sure ? My understanding of palæoanthropology is that, long
before man was able to differentiate | deer from  deer,
he could tell | deer from || deer from>  || deer, and that was the
limit of his calculating ability.


I believe four is the limit to which humans can subitize even now, though idiot savants 
like Kim Peek ("Rain Man") are claimed to be able to do many more.  See 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6577241.stm for an item and small experiment.


Try to beat this http://youtu.be/zJAH4ZJBiN8 and feel even more foolish 
after watching http://youtu.be/zJAH4ZJBiN8 ;)



Regards,

Shrisha Rao


** Phil.





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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Martin Schröder]

2011/9/12 Barry MacKichan :
> Ok, I'll contribute to this one. I learned programming on a IBM clone --a 
> clone of an IBM 1620 at Oregon State University in 1960.
> We wrote a few programs and then were told about a fabulous new tool called 
> SOAP, the symbolic optimum assembly program. No more memorizing the numbers 
> of machine instructions! The optimization part was that not only would it 
> assemble your program but it would put each instruction on the right part of 
> the drum so that it would be under the read head when the previous 
> instruction had executed. Slick!
>
> All input was on paper tape. The equivalent of the delete key, as I recall, 
> was opaque tape that you could stick on the paper tape.

Miranda beat you all: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20091201 :-)

I'm fascinated by this discussion on _this_ list ("Unicode-based TeX
for Mac OS X and other platforms" :)

Best
   Martin



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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Shrisha Rao]

El sep 13, 2011, a las 3:00 a.m., Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) escribió:

> Tobias Schoel wrote:
>> Shouldn't real dinosaurs (real as in MTV Real Life) calculate using only the 
>> Peano Axioms and the unary system? I mean, the natural numbers and the peano 
>> axioms are nature given / god given (choose whatever you like) and every 
>> human before homo sapiens had only the cognitive capabilities to use the 
>> unary system: “Hey, I saw | deer, let's go hunt them.” “Oh no, I saw ||| 
>> lions, they would kill us.”
> 
> Are you sure ? My understanding of palæoanthropology is that, long
> before man was able to differentiate | deer from  deer,
> he could tell | deer from || deer from > || deer, and that was the
> limit of his calculating ability. 

I believe four is the limit to which humans can subitize even now, though idiot 
savants like Kim Peek ("Rain Man") are claimed to be able to do many more.  See 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6577241.stm for an item and small experiment.

Regards,

Shrisha Rao

> ** Phil.




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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Janusz S. Bień]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2011  Barry MacKichan  wrote:


[...]

> All input was on paper tape. The equivalent of the delete key, as I
> recall, was opaque tape that you could stick on the paper tape.

Or punching all the holes in the row.

My first computer was GIER

   http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/wydzial/zdjecia/zosk/

with 1 K RAM of 42-bit words.

Regards

JSB

-- 
   ,   
Prof. dr hab. Janusz S. Bien -  Uniwersytet Warszawski (Katedra Lingwistyki 
Formalnej)
Prof. Janusz S. Bien - University of Warsaw (Formal Linguistics Department)
jsb...@uw.edu.pl, jsb...@mimuw.edu.pl, http://fleksem.klf.uw.edu.pl/~jsbien/


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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Peter Baker]

Cool discussion! It's the first thing in years that's actually made me feel 
young.

Peter Baker

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 12, 2011, at 5:42 PM, Barry MacKichan  
wrote:

> Ok, I'll contribute to this one. I learned programming on a IBM clone --a 
> clone of an IBM 1620 at Oregon State University in 1960.
> We wrote a few programs and then were told about a fabulous new tool called 
> SOAP, the symbolic optimum assembly program. No more memorizing the numbers 
> of machine instructions! The optimization part was that not only would it 
> assemble your program but it would put each instruction on the right part of 
> the drum so that it would be under the read head when the previous 
> instruction had executed. Slick!
> 
> All input was on paper tape. The equivalent of the delete key, as I recall, 
> was opaque tape that you could stick on the paper tape.
> 
> --Barry MacKichan 
> 
> 
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 2:53 PM, maxwell wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 21:40:57 +0200, Tobias Schoel
>>  wrote:
>>> Shouldn't real dinosaurs (real as in MTV Real Life) calculate using only
>> 
>>> the Peano Axioms and the unary system? 
>> 
>> I believe binary arithmetic was introduced somewhere in the pre-Cambrian. 
>> This was because when you add two digits, both of which are 1, you have to
>> carry into the next column; hence the name, You Carry It, since corrupted
>> to Eukaryote.
>> 
>>  Mike Maxwell
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Barry MacKichan]

Ok, I'll contribute to this one. I learned programming on a IBM clone --a clone 
of an IBM 1620 at Oregon State University in 1960.
We wrote a few programs and then were told about a fabulous new tool called 
SOAP, the symbolic optimum assembly program. No more memorizing the numbers of 
machine instructions! The optimization part was that not only would it assemble 
your program but it would put each instruction on the right part of the drum so 
that it would be under the read head when the previous instruction had 
executed. Slick!

All input was on paper tape. The equivalent of the delete key, as I recall, was 
opaque tape that you could stick on the paper tape.

--Barry MacKichan 


On Sep 12, 2011, at 2:53 PM, maxwell wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 21:40:57 +0200, Tobias Schoel
>  wrote:
>> Shouldn't real dinosaurs (real as in MTV Real Life) calculate using only
> 
>> the Peano Axioms and the unary system? 
> 
> I believe binary arithmetic was introduced somewhere in the pre-Cambrian. 
> This was because when you add two digits, both of which are 1, you have to
> carry into the next column; hence the name, You Carry It, since corrupted
> to Eukaryote.
> 
>   Mike Maxwell
> 
> 
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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Elliott Roper]

On 12 Sep 2011, at 22:30, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:

> 
> Are you sure ? My understanding of palæoanthropology is that, long
> before man was able to differentiate | deer from  deer,
> he could tell | deer from || deer from > || deer, and that was the
> limit of his calculating ability. 

Scene: A cave.
Woman at back, by fire, combing hair with bone shards. Man at mouth of cave.
Woman: "What's it like outside?"
Man: (observing  ungulates) "Looks like reindeer"

IGMC






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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/12 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>
> Tobias Schoel wrote:
>> Shouldn't real dinosaurs (real as in MTV Real Life) calculate using only the 
>> Peano Axioms and the unary system? I mean, the natural numbers and the peano 
>> axioms are nature given / god given (choose whatever you like) and every 
>> human before homo sapiens had only the cognitive capabilities to use the 
>> unary system: “Hey, I saw | deer, let's go hunt them.” “Oh no, I saw ||| 
>> lions, they would kill us.”
>
> Are you sure ? My understanding of palæoanthropology is that, long
> before man was able to differentiate | deer from  deer,
> he could tell | deer from || deer from > || deer, and that was the
> limit of his calculating ability.
>
I am not an expert but I have seen in some internet textbook of
Sanskrit that originally there were just three numerals: one, two,
many. This is probably a reason why some languages have singular, dual
and plural.

> ** Phil.
>
>
>
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-- 
Zdeněk Wagner
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http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz



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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Tobias Schoel wrote:
> Shouldn't real dinosaurs (real as in MTV Real Life) calculate using only the 
> Peano Axioms and the unary system? I mean, the natural numbers and the peano 
> axioms are nature given / god given (choose whatever you like) and every 
> human before homo sapiens had only the cognitive capabilities to use the 
> unary system: “Hey, I saw | deer, let's go hunt them.” “Oh no, I saw ||| 
> lions, they would kill us.”

Are you sure ? My understanding of palæoanthropology is that, long
before man was able to differentiate | deer from  deer,
he could tell | deer from || deer from > || deer, and that was the
limit of his calculating ability. 

** Phil.



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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[maxwell]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 21:40:57 +0200, Tobias Schoel
 wrote:
> Shouldn't real dinosaurs (real as in MTV Real Life) calculate using only

> the Peano Axioms and the unary system? 

I believe binary arithmetic was introduced somewhere in the pre-Cambrian. 
This was because when you add two digits, both of which are 1, you have to
carry into the next column; hence the name, You Carry It, since corrupted
to Eukaryote.

   Mike Maxwell


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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Tobias Schoel]

Shouldn't real dinosaurs (real as in MTV Real Life) calculate using only 
the Peano Axioms and the unary system? I mean, the natural numbers and 
the peano axioms are nature given / god given (choose whatever you like) 
and every human before homo sapiens had only the cognitive capabilities 
to use the unary system: “Hey, I saw | deer, let's go hunt them.” 
“Oh no, I saw ||| lions, they would kill us.”


Slide-Ruler? Calculator? Hole cards?


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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/12 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>
> maxwell wrote:
>> I still have a chance to win, if I can just find my dissertation, which I 
>> preserved on a 9-track tape: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-track_tape 
>> Produced on a CDC Cyber 170/750, with 60-bit words and 12-bit bytes; only 
>> upper case letters, so lower case letters were encoded with an \E\S\C\A\P\E 
>> \C\H\A\R\A\C\H\T\E\R.
>
> "9-track tape" -- ee, these youngsters don't know they're born.
> When ah were lad, us used to punch 'oles in paper tape using
> grandad's used matchsticks, and littl'uns used to fight
> over 'ood get chads (they used 'em to fool their mams
> into thinkin' they 'ad dandruff ...).
>
> Does tha' remember CDC 6400, lad : real machine, that
> were : Cyber's didn't come along until I were nearing retirement ...
>
I did some work on JPR-12, Czech computer, JPR stands for jednotka
programového řízení (program control unit). 12-bit bytes, 4 kB of
ferrite memory, so its contets was preserved when power failed, 256
input/output ports, no integrated circuits, everything was made just
of transistors. When I sent a listing of my assembler program to a
teletype, people in the whole building thought that I use a machine
gun.
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

maxwell wrote:
> I still have a chance to win, if I can just find my dissertation, which I 
> preserved on a 9-track tape: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-track_tape 
> Produced on a CDC Cyber 170/750, with 60-bit words and 12-bit bytes; only 
> upper case letters, so lower case letters were encoded with an \E\S\C\A\P\E 
> \C\H\A\R\A\C\H\T\E\R.

"9-track tape" -- ee, these youngsters don't know they're born.
When ah were lad, us used to punch 'oles in paper tape using
grandad's used matchsticks, and littl'uns used to fight
over 'ood get chads (they used 'em to fool their mams
into thinkin' they 'ad dandruff ...).

Does tha' remember CDC 6400, lad : real machine, that
were : Cyber's didn't come along until I were nearing retirement ...


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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[maxwell]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 18:48:39 +0200, Dominik Wujastyk 
wrote:
> Comparative dinosaurism
> 
> Completely by chance today, I came across one of my old files that had a
> bunch of 8" floppies in it.  Hah!  (And I've got a slide rule too.)   I
> win!
> 
> Dominik

I still have a chance to win, if I can just find my dissertation, which I
preserved on a 9-track tape:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-track_tape
Produced on a CDC Cyber 170/750, with 60-bit words and 12-bit bytes; only
upper case letters, so lower case letters were encoded with an \E\S\C\A\P\E
\C\H\A\R\A\C\H\T\E\R.

   Mike Maxwell


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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

maxwell wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:46:11 +0100, "Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)"
>> Sir.  You have the honour to be communicating with
>> (in the words of my former manager, David Sweeney)
>> a DINOSAUR.  What else would you expect a dinosaur
>> to use but an IBM Model M clicky keyboard and a 19"
>> CRT monitor ?!
> Floppies?

8", of course.  I remember distinctly advising Professor John
Thornes not to go for the 5 1/4" version on a PC he was
considering buying -- "Couldn't possibly be reliable, that
small", I said ...

As to Devonian slide-rules, when I replaced my Pre-Cambrian
abacus  with this accursed modern technology, I found it necessary
to have at least three on the go at once : see Exhibit B 
.

** Phil.


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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Dominik Wujastyk]

Comparative dinosaurism

Completely by chance today, I came across one of my old files that had a
bunch of 8" floppies in it.  Hah!  (And I've got a slide rule too.)   I win!

Dominik


On 12 September 2011 15:00, maxwell  wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:46:11 +0100, "Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)"
> > Sir.  You have the honour to be communicating with
> > (in the words of my former manager, David Sweeney)
> > a DINOSAUR.  What else would you expect a dinosaur
> > to use but an IBM Model M clicky keyboard and a 19"
> > CRT monitor ?!
>
> Floppies?
>
> Myself, I'm still stuck in the Devonian.  I have a slide rule.  Electronic
> calculators will be introduced in the Permian.
>
>   Mike Maxwell
>
>
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[XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[maxwell]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:46:11 +0100, "Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)"
> Sir.  You have the honour to be communicating with
> (in the words of my former manager, David Sweeney)
> a DINOSAUR.  What else would you expect a dinosaur
> to use but an IBM Model M clicky keyboard and a 19"
> CRT monitor ?!

Floppies?

Myself, I'm still stuck in the Devonian.  I have a slide rule.  Electronic
calculators will be introduced in the Permian.

   Mike Maxwell


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