Re: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support
On Tue, May 04, 2010 at 05:14:21PM -0400, maxwell wrote: > On Tue, 4 May 2010 21:39:58 +0100, Jonathan Kew > wrote: > > The keywords used to specify \lpcode and \rpcode values for native-font > > glyphs have been changed ... > > Since as I understand it, it's necessary to list each character that one > wants to allow to protrude, and since there's probably a lot of art to this > (well, maybe not a lot, but probably more than I possess), I wonder if it > would be useful to share tables of lpcode and rpcode values. While they > would presumably be font-specific, (a) some fonts are widely used (Charis > SIL, for example), and (b) a table for one font might at least serve as a > starting point for a table for another font. Microtype already have such tables for common type1 fonts, so I think such collection naturally belongs there (once there is support for xetex of course). Regards, Khaled -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team Free font developer -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support
On Tue, 4 May 2010 21:39:58 +0100, Jonathan Kew wrote: > The keywords used to specify \lpcode and \rpcode values for native-font > glyphs have been changed ... Since as I understand it, it's necessary to list each character that one wants to allow to protrude, and since there's probably a lot of art to this (well, maybe not a lot, but probably more than I possess), I wonder if it would be useful to share tables of lpcode and rpcode values. While they would presumably be font-specific, (a) some fonts are widely used (Charis SIL, for example), and (b) a table for one font might at least serve as a starting point for a table for another font. BTW, I don't like bleeding, so I haven't even tried this as yet... Mike Maxwell CASL/ U MD -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support
For those experimenting with this: I have just updated the microtype branch again, to v0.9997.0. The keywords used to specify \lpcode and \rpcode values for native-font glyphs have been changed to be more concise, and also more similar to forms used in other contexts. Unicode character codes are now prefixed by "U" (or "u"), and glyph names by "/" (slash), just like glyph names in Type 1 encoding files. So this means that protrusion values for native fonts can be set as \rpcode \f U"002C = 100 % Unicode codepoint: note that the "u" keyword is not case-sensitive \rpcode \f /comma = 100 % glyph name \rpcode \f 15 = 100 % glyph number (font-specific) (There is no change for TFM fonts; only bare numbers -- which are in effect "glyph numbers" in the font encoding -- are used.) JK -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support
On May 3, 2010, at 8:56 AM, Avi Wollman wrote: > I would love to try this out, but i work using miktex2.8 on a windows 7(64) > where are instructions how to compile this (or even better download a build) > on the MS platform ? xetex-dev is available from: http://www.w32tex.org/ w/ information on installing it into MikTeX. William -- William Adams senior graphic designer Fry Communications Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow. -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support
Possibly I don't understand it, but my impression is that font expansion becomes another parameter to vary in the paragraph layout routine. I can't see how it can be otherwise given that applying font expansion can change the line breaks in a paragraph. I can see how that optimization routine has become very complex with the addition of calling on OpenType to compute sizes of text chunks, but it seems to me that the changes are solidly on the XeTeX side of the XeTeX/xdvipdfmx divide. --Barry On 5/3/2010 4:41 AM, Martin Schröder wrote: > 2010/5/3 Barry MacKichan : > >> Now that that has sunk in ;-) can I ask about the other feature of >> PDFTeX, namely the ability to improve line breaking by (to my eye) >> undetectable changes in the font size for a paragraph? Is there any plan >> to port this to XeTeX? >> > IMHO that will be much harder, since XeTeX is a two-pass machine (.tex > -> xdv -> pdf) compared to the one-pass approach of pdfTeX which IMHO > is essential for microtypgraphy. > > But if certainly would help if there would be funding. :-) > > Best >Marti > > > -- > Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex > > > 0x923B4C8D.asc Description: application/pgp-keys 0x923B4C8D.asc Description: application/pgp-keys 0x923B4C8D.asc Description: application/pgp-keys -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support
I would love to try this out, but i work using miktex2.8 on a windows 7(64) where are instructions how to compile this (or even better download a build) on the MS platform ? Avi On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 2:12 AM, Jonathan Kew wrote: > For those who like to live on the cutting (bleeding?) edge, there is a new > version of xetex available in the source repository. Version 0.9996.0 is now > available from the svn repository at: > > http://scripts.sil.org/svn-public/xetex/BRANCHES/microtype > > This version supports "character protrusion", also known as margin kerning. > The character protrusion feature is enabled by setting the parameter > \XeTeXprotrudechars, equivalent to pdftex's \pdfprotrudechars. > > The protrusion values are set using \lpcode and \rpcode. For TFM fonts, > these work in the same way as the pdftex versions; for non-TFM (i.e. native > TrueType/OpenType) fonts, they accept either a Unicode character code > (prefixed by the keyword "unicode"), a glyph name (prefixed by "name"), or a > glyph number. Thus, in the example: > >\font\x = "Charis SIL" at 10pt > >\rpcode \x unicode "2C = 100 >\rpcode \x name "comma" = 100 >\rpcode \x 15 = 100 > > the three \rpcode lines all have the exact same effect, as the comma glyph > in this font has glyph ID 15. > > In most cases, setting character protrusion values via Unicode codepoints > will be the simplest and most robust approach; glyph names and glyph IDs are > provided for cases such as contextual forms that are not directly accessible > via Unicode character codes. > > Note that LaTeX packages such as pdfcprot and microtype will not > automatically work with this feature, but it should be possible to update > them to recognize the new xetex version and handle it appropriately without > too much difficulty. > > Many thanks to Han The Thanh for his work on this! > > JK > > > > > -- > Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex > -- Avi Wollman אבי וולמן http://www.google.com/profiles/avi.wollman -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support
On Sun, May 02, 2010 at 10:06:31PM -0400, David J. Perry wrote: > Jonathan, > > This is great news--thank you! There is also an OpenType feature > called Optical Bounds that is designed to do exactly this. My > understanding is that very few, if any, page layout programs support > this feature. Both development versions of ConTeXt and luaotfload package now support optical bounds feature, but I don't know any other application that do nor I found any fonts that implement it (I had to add it myself to Pagella for testing). Regards, Khaled -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team Free font developer -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support
2010/5/3 Barry MacKichan : > Now that that has sunk in ;-) can I ask about the other feature of > PDFTeX, namely the ability to improve line breaking by (to my eye) > undetectable changes in the font size for a paragraph? Is there any plan > to port this to XeTeX? IMHO that will be much harder, since XeTeX is a two-pass machine (.tex -> xdv -> pdf) compared to the one-pass approach of pdfTeX which IMHO is essential for microtypgraphy. But if certainly would help if there would be funding. :-) Best Marti -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support
On 5/3/2010 2:00 AM, John Was wrote: Excellent - does this mean that custom kerning from within XeTeX is moving up the 'to-do' list? It seems to me to be in the same general area (aesthetically though perhaps not technically): one wants to fine-tune the spacing behaviour of specific characters from within the program rather than by editing the font (which may not be legal). Not to mention it would stay in line with the TeX "it compiles the same, everywhere" philosophy. Can't redistribute a modified font, but you can certainly give people some XeTeX source with the message "and use this specific font, version ..."! - Mike -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support
Excellent - does this mean that custom kerning from within XeTeX is moving up the 'to-do' list? It seems to me to be in the same general area (aesthetically though perhaps not technically): one wants to fine-tune the spacing behaviour of specific characters from within the program rather than by editing the font (which may not be legal). John - Original Message - From: "Jonathan Kew" To: "Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other platforms" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 12:12 AM Subject: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support For those who like to live on the cutting (bleeding?) edge, there is a new version of xetex available in the source repository. Version 0.9996.0 is now available from the svn repository at: http://scripts.sil.org/svn-public/xetex/BRANCHES/microtype This version supports "character protrusion", also known as margin kerning. The character protrusion feature is enabled by setting the parameter \XeTeXprotrudechars, equivalent to pdftex's \pdfprotrudechars. The protrusion values are set using \lpcode and \rpcode. For TFM fonts, these work in the same way as the pdftex versions; for non-TFM (i.e. native TrueType/OpenType) fonts, they accept either a Unicode character code (prefixed by the keyword "unicode"), a glyph name (prefixed by "name"), or a glyph number. Thus, in the example: \font\x = "Charis SIL" at 10pt \rpcode \x unicode "2C = 100 \rpcode \x name "comma" = 100 \rpcode \x 15 = 100 the three \rpcode lines all have the exact same effect, as the comma glyph in this font has glyph ID 15. In most cases, setting character protrusion values via Unicode codepoints will be the simplest and most robust approach; glyph names and glyph IDs are provided for cases such as contextual forms that are not directly accessible via Unicode character codes. Note that LaTeX packages such as pdfcprot and microtype will not automatically work with this feature, but it should be possible to update them to recognize the new xetex version and handle it appropriately without too much difficulty. Many thanks to Han The Thanh for his work on this! JK -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support
Jonathan, This is great news--thank you! There is also an OpenType feature called Optical Bounds that is designed to do exactly this. My understanding is that very few, if any, page layout programs support this feature. Maybe XeTeX should be cutting-edge in this regard also? FontForge does allow the creation of fonts with this feature, and it would be easier for users to take values from a table in the font than having to specify them individually. Best wishes, David -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] experimental new xetex version - with margin-kerning support
Many thanks to you and Han The Thanh. Now that that has sunk in ;-) can I ask about the other feature of PDFTeX, namely the ability to improve line breaking by (to my eye) undetectable changes in the font size for a paragraph? Is there any plan to port this to XeTeX? In my opinion, once that is done, everybody should switch over to XeTeX. At the current time, I can only recommend that 98% of the people should switch over to XeTeX. --Barry MacKichan On 5/2/2010 5:12 PM, Jonathan Kew wrote: > For those who like to live on the cutting (bleeding?) edge, there is a new > version of xetex available in the source repository. Version 0.9996.0 is now > available from the svn repository at: > >http://scripts.sil.org/svn-public/xetex/BRANCHES/microtype > > This version supports "character protrusion", also known as margin kerning. > The character protrusion feature is enabled by setting the parameter > \XeTeXprotrudechars, equivalent to pdftex's \pdfprotrudechars. > > The protrusion values are set using \lpcode and \rpcode. For TFM fonts, these > work in the same way as the pdftex versions; for non-TFM (i.e. native > TrueType/OpenType) fonts, they accept either a Unicode character code > (prefixed by the keyword "unicode"), a glyph name (prefixed by "name"), or a > glyph number. Thus, in the example: > > \font\x = "Charis SIL" at 10pt > > \rpcode \x unicode "2C = 100 > \rpcode \x name "comma" = 100 > \rpcode \x 15 = 100 > > the three \rpcode lines all have the exact same effect, as the comma glyph in > this font has glyph ID 15. > > In most cases, setting character protrusion values via Unicode codepoints > will be the simplest and most robust approach; glyph names and glyph IDs are > provided for cases such as contextual forms that are not directly accessible > via Unicode character codes. > > Note that LaTeX packages such as pdfcprot and microtype will not > automatically work with this feature, but it should be possible to update > them to recognize the new xetex version and handle it appropriately without > too much difficulty. > > Many thanks to Han The Thanh for his work on this! > > JK > > > > > -- > Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex > > > 0x923B4C8D.asc Description: application/pgp-keys 0x923B4C8D.asc Description: application/pgp-keys -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
