Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Alex Rades]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Alex Deucher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>   * Only wait if the window isn't redirected (backing pixmap is the
> > screen pixmap)
>
> yeah, as you said, any rendering to the front buffer should wait for
> vblank.  I may play around with it a bit if I have time, but
> unfortunately, I seem to be unable to notice tearing generally.  Do
> you have any good tips or content that would make it easier to notice?
>

Yes, I generally use this free calibration DVD:
http://merifon.altervista.org/TestDVD.html (200 Mb, direct link:
http://www.isaneri.it/bg/TestDVD1_08.zip)

If you extract it and play VTS_04_1.VOB, at the end you find a fast
horizontal moving patter, which evidently shows an horizontal tearing.
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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Roland Scheidegger]

Alex Deucher wrote:
> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Roland Scheidegger
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Michel Dänzer wrote:
>>  > On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 14:39 -0400, Alex Deucher wrote:
>>  >> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:06 AM, Michel Dänzer
>>  >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  >>> On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 16:52 -0400, Alex Deucher wrote:
>>  >>>  > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> wrote:
>>  >>>  > > Hi,
>>  >>>  > > when playing videos (either in xv or plain x11) on my x1250, I 
>> always see
>>  >>>  > > horizontal (not diagonal, which are now fixed) tearing problems. 
>> They seem
>>  >>>  > > related to vertical sync problems. Do you have suggestions?
>>  >>>  >
>>  >>>  > We need sync to vblank support for textured video to properly deal
>>  >>>  > with that.  this untested hack may help, but it's not optimal:
>>  >>>  > http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/texvid_wait_vsync.diff
>>  >>>
>>  >>>  Good to see this getting tackled. Here's what I think is missing:
>>  >>>
>>  >>>   * Set up the CRTC*_GUI_TRIG_VLINE register such that it waits for
>>  >>> scanout to be outside of the destination vertical range.
>>  >> yeah, makes sense.
>>  >>
>>  >>>   * Only wait if the window isn't redirected (backing pixmap is the
>>  >>> screen pixmap)
>>  >> yeah, as you said, any rendering to the front buffer should wait for
>>  >> vblank.
>>  >
>>  > Technically not for vblank, but for scanout to be outside of the
>>  > affected vertical screen range.
>>  >
>>  >> I may play around with it a bit if I have time, but unfortunately, I
>>  >> seem to be unable to notice tearing generally.  Do you have any good
>>  >> tips or content that would make it easier to notice?
>>  >
>>  > Generally, I find it most noticeable with horizontal animation or with
>>  > large solid areas that continuously change colour.
>>  >
>>  >> The other issue is that the current IB scheme doesn't really lend
>>  >> itself to this.  Ideally we'd queue up everything and then pre-pend a
>>  >> wait_until vblank when we submit the IB.
>>  >
>>  > I don't think one wait per IB is sufficient anyway, as any given IB will
>>  > likely have both on- and offscreen operations. It could be tricky to
>>  > find a good granularity for the waits.
>>  > 
>>  >> Additionally, we have the issue of multiple crtcs for regular
>>  >> rendering as well. In that case, we really need shatter.
>>  >
>>  > Right, or again pick the CRTC with larger visibility and/or let the user
>>  > choose somehow.
>>
>>  Since nowadays everybody just uses 60Hz for almost all displays
>>  (LCD...), wouldn't it be possible to sync them? Looks to me like the
>>  avivo-based chips could do that (with the D1CRTC_TRIGA_CNTL and friends)
>>  or is my quick look wrong?
> 
> Probably.  if the mode was the same you could even use the same PLL for both.
Yes, but that's quite a limited scenario (same resolution etc.), and it
looks to me like the chip could be programmed to sync any two modes, as
long as they've got (almost) the same vertical refresh rate. Actually it
seems like you could tell it to sync even modes with different refresh
rate, but the result probably would be strange :-).

Roland
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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Alex Deucher]

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Roland Scheidegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Michel Dänzer wrote:
>  > On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 14:39 -0400, Alex Deucher wrote:
>  >> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:06 AM, Michel Dänzer
>  >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  >>> On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 16:52 -0400, Alex Deucher wrote:
>  >>>  > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  >>>  > > Hi,
>  >>>  > > when playing videos (either in xv or plain x11) on my x1250, I 
> always see
>  >>>  > > horizontal (not diagonal, which are now fixed) tearing problems. 
> They seem
>  >>>  > > related to vertical sync problems. Do you have suggestions?
>  >>>  >
>  >>>  > We need sync to vblank support for textured video to properly deal
>  >>>  > with that.  this untested hack may help, but it's not optimal:
>  >>>  > http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/texvid_wait_vsync.diff
>  >>>
>  >>>  Good to see this getting tackled. Here's what I think is missing:
>  >>>
>  >>>   * Set up the CRTC*_GUI_TRIG_VLINE register such that it waits for
>  >>> scanout to be outside of the destination vertical range.
>  >> yeah, makes sense.
>  >>
>  >>>   * Only wait if the window isn't redirected (backing pixmap is the
>  >>> screen pixmap)
>  >> yeah, as you said, any rendering to the front buffer should wait for
>  >> vblank.
>  >
>  > Technically not for vblank, but for scanout to be outside of the
>  > affected vertical screen range.
>  >
>  >> I may play around with it a bit if I have time, but unfortunately, I
>  >> seem to be unable to notice tearing generally.  Do you have any good
>  >> tips or content that would make it easier to notice?
>  >
>  > Generally, I find it most noticeable with horizontal animation or with
>  > large solid areas that continuously change colour.
>  >
>  >> The other issue is that the current IB scheme doesn't really lend
>  >> itself to this.  Ideally we'd queue up everything and then pre-pend a
>  >> wait_until vblank when we submit the IB.
>  >
>  > I don't think one wait per IB is sufficient anyway, as any given IB will
>  > likely have both on- and offscreen operations. It could be tricky to
>  > find a good granularity for the waits.
>  > 
>  >> Additionally, we have the issue of multiple crtcs for regular
>  >> rendering as well. In that case, we really need shatter.
>  >
>  > Right, or again pick the CRTC with larger visibility and/or let the user
>  > choose somehow.
>
>  Since nowadays everybody just uses 60Hz for almost all displays
>  (LCD...), wouldn't it be possible to sync them? Looks to me like the
>  avivo-based chips could do that (with the D1CRTC_TRIGA_CNTL and friends)
>  or is my quick look wrong?

Probably.  if the mode was the same you could even use the same PLL for both.

Alex
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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Roland Scheidegger]

Michel Dänzer wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 14:39 -0400, Alex Deucher wrote: 
>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:06 AM, Michel Dänzer
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 16:52 -0400, Alex Deucher wrote:
>>>  > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>  > > Hi,
>>>  > > when playing videos (either in xv or plain x11) on my x1250, I always 
>>> see
>>>  > > horizontal (not diagonal, which are now fixed) tearing problems. They 
>>> seem
>>>  > > related to vertical sync problems. Do you have suggestions?
>>>  >
>>>  > We need sync to vblank support for textured video to properly deal
>>>  > with that.  this untested hack may help, but it's not optimal:
>>>  > http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/texvid_wait_vsync.diff
>>>
>>>  Good to see this getting tackled. Here's what I think is missing:
>>>
>>>   * Set up the CRTC*_GUI_TRIG_VLINE register such that it waits for
>>> scanout to be outside of the destination vertical range.
>> yeah, makes sense.
>>
>>>   * Only wait if the window isn't redirected (backing pixmap is the
>>> screen pixmap)
>> yeah, as you said, any rendering to the front buffer should wait for
>> vblank.  
> 
> Technically not for vblank, but for scanout to be outside of the
> affected vertical screen range.
> 
>> I may play around with it a bit if I have time, but unfortunately, I
>> seem to be unable to notice tearing generally.  Do you have any good
>> tips or content that would make it easier to notice?
> 
> Generally, I find it most noticeable with horizontal animation or with
> large solid areas that continuously change colour.
> 
>> The other issue is that the current IB scheme doesn't really lend
>> itself to this.  Ideally we'd queue up everything and then pre-pend a
>> wait_until vblank when we submit the IB.
> 
> I don't think one wait per IB is sufficient anyway, as any given IB will
> likely have both on- and offscreen operations. It could be tricky to
> find a good granularity for the waits.
> 
>> Additionally, we have the issue of multiple crtcs for regular
>> rendering as well. In that case, we really need shatter.
> 
> Right, or again pick the CRTC with larger visibility and/or let the user
> choose somehow.

Since nowadays everybody just uses 60Hz for almost all displays
(LCD...), wouldn't it be possible to sync them? Looks to me like the
avivo-based chips could do that (with the D1CRTC_TRIGA_CNTL and friends)
or is my quick look wrong?

Roland

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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Michel Dänzer]

On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 14:39 -0400, Alex Deucher wrote: 
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:06 AM, Michel Dänzer
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 16:52 -0400, Alex Deucher wrote:
> >  > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  > > Hi,
> >  > > when playing videos (either in xv or plain x11) on my x1250, I always 
> > see
> >  > > horizontal (not diagonal, which are now fixed) tearing problems. They 
> > seem
> >  > > related to vertical sync problems. Do you have suggestions?
> >  >
> >  > We need sync to vblank support for textured video to properly deal
> >  > with that.  this untested hack may help, but it's not optimal:
> >  > http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/texvid_wait_vsync.diff
> >
> >  Good to see this getting tackled. Here's what I think is missing:
> >
> >   * Set up the CRTC*_GUI_TRIG_VLINE register such that it waits for
> > scanout to be outside of the destination vertical range.
> 
> yeah, makes sense.
> 
> >   * Only wait if the window isn't redirected (backing pixmap is the
> > screen pixmap)
> 
> yeah, as you said, any rendering to the front buffer should wait for
> vblank.  

Technically not for vblank, but for scanout to be outside of the
affected vertical screen range.

> I may play around with it a bit if I have time, but unfortunately, I
> seem to be unable to notice tearing generally.  Do you have any good
> tips or content that would make it easier to notice?

Generally, I find it most noticeable with horizontal animation or with
large solid areas that continuously change colour.

> The other issue is that the current IB scheme doesn't really lend
> itself to this.  Ideally we'd queue up everything and then pre-pend a
> wait_until vblank when we submit the IB.

I don't think one wait per IB is sufficient anyway, as any given IB will
likely have both on- and offscreen operations. It could be tricky to
find a good granularity for the waits.

> Additionally, we have the issue of multiple crtcs for regular
> rendering as well. In that case, we really need shatter.

Right, or again pick the CRTC with larger visibility and/or let the user
choose somehow.


-- 
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Libre software enthusiast |  Debian, X and DRI developer

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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Alex Deucher]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:06 AM, Michel Dänzer
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 16:52 -0400, Alex Deucher wrote:
>  > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > > Hi,
>  > > when playing videos (either in xv or plain x11) on my x1250, I always see
>  > > horizontal (not diagonal, which are now fixed) tearing problems. They 
> seem
>  > > related to vertical sync problems. Do you have suggestions?
>  >
>  > We need sync to vblank support for textured video to properly deal
>  > with that.  this untested hack may help, but it's not optimal:
>  > http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/texvid_wait_vsync.diff
>
>  Good to see this getting tackled. Here's what I think is missing:
>
>   * Set up the CRTC*_GUI_TRIG_VLINE register such that it waits for
> scanout to be outside of the destination vertical range.

yeah, makes sense.

>   * Only wait if the window isn't redirected (backing pixmap is the
> screen pixmap)

yeah, as you said, any rendering to the front buffer should wait for
vblank.  I may play around with it a bit if I have time, but
unfortunately, I seem to be unable to notice tearing generally.  Do
you have any good tips or content that would make it easier to notice?

The other issue is that the current IB scheme doesn't really lend
itself to this.  Ideally we'd queue up everything and then pre-pend a
wait_until vblank when we submit the IB.  Additionally, we have the
issue of multiple crtcs for regular rendering as well.  In that case,
we really need shatter.

>   * Select the CRTC to to synchronize to according to visibility of
> the window, or if it's the same on both CRTCs, according to user
> preference (maybe reuse the XV_CRTC attribute for this?)
>

yeah, the only problem would be when the video straddles multiple
crtcs.  As you said in this case, we just use similar logic to the
overlay sourcing logic.

Alex
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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Alex Deucher]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Roland Scheidegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Don't the the WAIT_UNTIL_CRTC_VLINE, WAIT_UNTIL_FE_CRTC_VLINE,
>  WAIT_UNTIL_RE_CRTC_VLINE conditions only work correctly when the
>  CRTC_GUI_TRIG_VLINE register is configured appropriately?
>

Probably, it was just a quick and dirty patch as an example of what
could be done.

Alex

>  Roland
>
>
>
>  Alex Rades wrote:
>  > I've also just noticed that the above behaviour only applies when
>  > running xcompmgr. When there is no composite manager, The horizontal
>  > tearing is always present.
>  >
>  > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > > wrote:
>  >
>  > Just FYI,
>  > I've tried the patch. It solves the problem when running in
>  > fullscreen. If the window i'm playing the video in is smaller,
>  > sometimes the horizontal tearing appears again. Moreover, if i run a
>  > big enough window with  ARGB visual above the movie window, the
>  > tearing appears as well. (this problem does not occur with smaller
>  > ARGB windows)
>  >
>  >
>  > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:52 PM, Alex Deucher
>
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>  >
>  > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > > wrote:
>  > > Hi,
>  > > when playing videos (either in xv or plain x11) on my x1250, I
>  > always see
>  > > horizontal (not diagonal, which are now fixed) tearing
>  > problems. They seem
>  > > related to vertical sync problems. Do you have suggestions?
>  >
>  > We need sync to vblank support for textured video to properly deal
>  > with that.  this untested hack may help, but it's not optimal:
>  > http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/texvid_wait_vsync.diff
>  >
>  > Alex
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 
>  >
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>
>
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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Roland Scheidegger]

Don't the the WAIT_UNTIL_CRTC_VLINE, WAIT_UNTIL_FE_CRTC_VLINE,
WAIT_UNTIL_RE_CRTC_VLINE conditions only work correctly when the
CRTC_GUI_TRIG_VLINE register is configured appropriately?

Roland


Alex Rades wrote:
> I've also just noticed that the above behaviour only applies when
> running xcompmgr. When there is no composite manager, The horizontal
> tearing is always present.
> 
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> 
> Just FYI,
> I've tried the patch. It solves the problem when running in
> fullscreen. If the window i'm playing the video in is smaller,
> sometimes the horizontal tearing appears again. Moreover, if i run a
> big enough window with  ARGB visual above the movie window, the
> tearing appears as well. (this problem does not occur with smaller
> ARGB windows)
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:52 PM, Alex Deucher
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> > Hi,
> > when playing videos (either in xv or plain x11) on my x1250, I
> always see
> > horizontal (not diagonal, which are now fixed) tearing
> problems. They seem
> > related to vertical sync problems. Do you have suggestions?
> 
> We need sync to vblank support for textured video to properly deal
> with that.  this untested hack may help, but it's not optimal:
> http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/texvid_wait_vsync.diff
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Alex Rades]

I've also just noticed that the above behaviour only applies when running
xcompmgr. When there is no composite manager, The horizontal tearing is
always present.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Just FYI,
> I've tried the patch. It solves the problem when running in fullscreen. If
> the window i'm playing the video in is smaller, sometimes the horizontal
> tearing appears again. Moreover, if i run a big enough window with  ARGB
> visual above the movie window, the tearing appears as well. (this problem
> does not occur with smaller ARGB windows)
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:52 PM, Alex Deucher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> > when playing videos (either in xv or plain x11) on my x1250, I always
>> see
>> > horizontal (not diagonal, which are now fixed) tearing problems. They
>> seem
>> > related to vertical sync problems. Do you have suggestions?
>>
>> We need sync to vblank support for textured video to properly deal
>> with that.  this untested hack may help, but it's not optimal:
>> http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/texvid_wait_vsync.diff
>>
>> Alex
>>
>
>
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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Alex Rades]

Just FYI,
I've tried the patch. It solves the problem when running in fullscreen. If
the window i'm playing the video in is smaller, sometimes the horizontal
tearing appears again. Moreover, if i run a big enough window with  ARGB
visual above the movie window, the tearing appears as well. (this problem
does not occur with smaller ARGB windows)

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:52 PM, Alex Deucher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > when playing videos (either in xv or plain x11) on my x1250, I always see
> > horizontal (not diagonal, which are now fixed) tearing problems. They
> seem
> > related to vertical sync problems. Do you have suggestions?
>
> We need sync to vblank support for textured video to properly deal
> with that.  this untested hack may help, but it's not optimal:
> http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/texvid_wait_vsync.diff
>
> Alex
>
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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Michel Dänzer]

On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 09:06 +0200, Michel Dänzer wrote:
> 
>   * Only wait if the window isn't redirected (backing pixmap is the
> screen pixmap)

Then again, this probably is about a redirected window... so really it
isn't the textured video rendering that needs to be synchronized to the
refresh, but the compositing manager's rendering to the screen. A
hackish solution could be to use the WAIT_UNTIL trick for all rendering
targeted to the screen pixmap; a possibly cleaner solution could be to
create SYNC extension counters for vertical blank and make the
compositing manager use those.


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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Michel Dänzer]

On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 16:52 -0400, Alex Deucher wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > when playing videos (either in xv or plain x11) on my x1250, I always see
> > horizontal (not diagonal, which are now fixed) tearing problems. They seem
> > related to vertical sync problems. Do you have suggestions?
> 
> We need sync to vblank support for textured video to properly deal
> with that.  this untested hack may help, but it's not optimal:
> http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/texvid_wait_vsync.diff

Good to see this getting tackled. Here's what I think is missing:

  * Set up the CRTC*_GUI_TRIG_VLINE register such that it waits for
scanout to be outside of the destination vertical range.
  * Only wait if the window isn't redirected (backing pixmap is the
screen pixmap)
  * Select the CRTC to to synchronize to according to visibility of
the window, or if it's the same on both CRTCs, according to user
preference (maybe reuse the XV_CRTC attribute for this?)


-- 
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Libre software enthusiast |  Debian, X and DRI developer

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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Alex Deucher]

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> when playing videos (either in xv or plain x11) on my x1250, I always see
> horizontal (not diagonal, which are now fixed) tearing problems. They seem
> related to vertical sync problems. Do you have suggestions?

We need sync to vblank support for textured video to properly deal
with that.  this untested hack may help, but it's not optimal:
http://www.botchco.com/alex/xorg/texvid_wait_vsync.diff

Alex
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Re: x1250 horizontal tearing problems

[Alex Rades]

Well, I should add i'm using latest git of xf86-video-ati and drm. I'm using
the default configuration generated by X -configure, with AccelMethod
manually set to EXA. The monitor I'm using is connected to the HDMI output.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Alex Rades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
> when playing videos (either in xv or plain x11) on my x1250, I always see
> horizontal (not diagonal, which are now fixed) tearing problems. They seem
> related to vertical sync problems. Do you have suggestions?
>
> Thanks
>
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