Re: [ydl-gen] PS3 is Hacked!
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:45 AM, Derick Centeno dcent...@ydl.net wrote: On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:20:56 +1100 Robert Spykerman robert.spyker...@gmail.com wrote: ... Now, I am wondering (1) when we will be able to actually run unsigned code on the ps3 ... In brief as to when the code will be available depends on when he releases his work and under what open source license. If you want to have a clue regarding the variety of open source licenses (and gain a better understanding of that universe) you can refer here: http://www.opensource.org/ Ah, he's a hacker, quite honestly I doubt that he'd care about licensing or anything like that. In the spirit of things, it looks like he has just realized his hack to the public domain, which I've just downloaded to take a lookie. And really, the bottom line here is that he's not really publishing 'code' per se he's describing a 'method'. So... licensing... Non issue. Take a look at his blog it's quite interesting. http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/01/heres-your-silver-platter.html It seems he boots a linux kernel per normal and then inserts a kernel module which does some fancy memory footwork that I *STILL* don't understand and somehow trips something inside. He claims enables him to inject and run unsigned code. Given he's actually publicly released the hack, and expects fellow capable colleagues to replicate it, probabilistically I expect it would likely work. It sounds crazy enough to. So I would say, (1) is probably in the bag. Not with any certainty, but ... all it takes is for a few other people out there to replicated it. And ... I would wager that quite a few will try. (That said, I'm not taking a soldering iron to my PS3 till, heck, at least I have ONE to spare hahaha) (2) if (1) is realized, who will rewrite the kernel (and I also would say drivers of course) to run on an un-hypervisor-abstracted ps3... Depending under which open source license the work is finally released as a variety of projects can participate. I doubt very much whether Fixstars will participate though as they have commercial obligations to adhere to. Then again what Fixstars does or doesn't choose to do has little to do with what talented programmers will choose to do on their own anyway, if I was to guess I would believe that work would appear within Debian Linux and it's variant Ubuntu first. Slackware Linux and others may move towards this direction and others. Established commercial interests may not offer tools to facilitate this independent effort as their business obligations would be threatened or prevent them from participating. IBM for instance, announced that it ceased Cell development last December. So work at a sufficiently sophisticated and useful level which interests techncially saavy professionals may be slow to develop if at all, since most will be looking towards where IBM is going as opposed to Cell projects which IBM has abandoned. Re: the kernel rewrite IF (1) proves practical and easy (which it still looks not unfortunately).. I just hope there is enough interest in the PS3 hacker community to engineer something and boot linux. Honestly, I couldn't care who provides us with a better kernel :) Just that they make it easy enough for the average enthusiast to... er... deploy. We can worry about stuff like what distro later. Boot first. Worry later :) This would be the most CRITICAL point to achieve, I think after this hack is confirmed (if it is). If this can be achieved... Wow (3) how easy/practical (1) and in fact (2) actually is...and if it will ever actually happen. Programming for the Cell isn't easy at all. Decent discussions involving an in depth consideration of various processors was explored with the YDL Board. One such discussion is here: http://www.yellowdog-board.com/viewtopic.php?f=19t=4976 I don't think the Cell is truly the issue here although it is a true point the cell is hard to program in the sense of truly making use of its might. All that SPE synergy is not really needed to boot a linux. All that is required is that the SPE's not interfere (yes, I mean that locked-up one especially). What I perceive the difficulty to be is getting arbitrary unsigned code running _easily_ and _practically_. At present the way he describes it appears too inconvenient. But it is a start. And then there is the issue of a kernel for effectively what I suspect is an entirely 'new' machine (I hope I am wrong!), for which ... manuals are not likely to be available :) So, this is not going to be easy, I suspect. And then there is the 'What can Sony do about it?' factor Interesting stuff. I watch eagerly with anticipation. Robert Spykerman -- chown -R us ./base ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try
Re: [ydl-gen] PS3 is Hacked!
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 7:09 AM, Kai Staats k...@overthesun.com wrote: As a former employee of Fixstars and huge fan of YDL on the PS3, I offer this link with all due respect to both Sony and GeoHot: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/01/three-years-later-the-ps3-gets-hacked.ars Now, I am wondering (1) when we will be able to actually run unsigned code on the ps3 (2) if (1) is realized, who will rewrite the kernel (and I also would say drivers of course) to run on an un-hypervisor-abstracted ps3... (3) how easy/practical (1) and in fact (2) actually is...and if it will ever actually happen. Sadly. I honestly do not believe all that much will actually happen. I hope I am wrong about this. I hope we will have other interesting things to play with soon, however. The new out-of-order ARM derivatives from NVIDIA look particulary interesting. I wonder if they catch on on mobile phones and netbooks will they ever start appearing on the desktop. Robert Spykerman -- chown -R us ./base ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'lt;keywords site:us.fixstars.com'
Re: [ydl-gen] PS3 is Hacked!
Hi Rob, my comments follow yours: On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:20:56 +1100 Robert Spykerman robert.spyker...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 7:09 AM, Kai Staats k...@overthesun.com wrote: As a former employee of Fixstars and huge fan of YDL on the PS3, I offer this link with all due respect to both Sony and GeoHot: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/01/three-years-later-the-ps3-gets-hacked.ars Now, I am wondering (1) when we will be able to actually run unsigned code on the ps3 That depends on which Linux distributions decide to share and incorporate the code this fellow generates. It also depends which open source license he chooses to utilize. This choice (whichever it becomes) will lock out or exclude some Linux distributions as the open source licenses they participate with may be different from his. An example of this limitation exists in how the Claws Mail project had to drop utilizing Clamav from it's project because Clamav utilizes a different open source license. The work around can only be implemented by individuals who want to code clamav so that it works within the version of Claws Mail which they use on their own computer. In brief as to when the code will be available depends on when he releases his work and under what open source license. If you want to have a clue regarding the variety of open source licenses (and gain a better understanding of that universe) you can refer here: http://www.opensource.org/ (2) if (1) is realized, who will rewrite the kernel (and I also would say drivers of course) to run on an un-hypervisor-abstracted ps3... Depending under which open source license the work is finally released as a variety of projects can participate. I doubt very much whether Fixstars will participate though as they have commercial obligations to adhere to. Then again what Fixstars does or doesn't choose to do has little to do with what talented programmers will choose to do on their own anyway, if I was to guess I would believe that work would appear within Debian Linux and it's variant Ubuntu first. Slackware Linux and others may move towards this direction and others. Established commercial interests may not offer tools to facilitate this independent effort as their business obligations would be threatened or prevent them from participating. IBM for instance, announced that it ceased Cell development last December. So work at a sufficiently sophisticated and useful level which interests techncially saavy professionals may be slow to develop if at all, since most will be looking towards where IBM is going as opposed to Cell projects which IBM has abandoned. (3) how easy/practical (1) and in fact (2) actually is...and if it will ever actually happen. Programming for the Cell isn't easy at all. Decent discussions involving an in depth consideration of various processors was explored with the YDL Board. One such discussion is here: http://www.yellowdog-board.com/viewtopic.php?f=19t=4976 There are other threads. Just search the thread discussing the PS3 and others on the YDL Board which may be informative on various informative details. In the end, there are very good reasons why IBM is moving towards heterogeneous multicore systems could look something like the Toshiba SpursEngine as that design is more effective in terms of producing working and manageable code quickly, than the Cell has been. Sadly. I honestly do not believe all that much will actually happen. I hope I am wrong about this. As usual in high-tech prognostications time will prove which idea or design is the most practical. We are reading tea leaves even with the variety of experiences we may contribute to this or other discussions. In other words, unless we are directly involved with one or another project we will have to wait to observe where the various commercial and open source efforts actually lead to over time. I hope we will have other interesting things to play with soon, however. The new out-of-order ARM derivatives from NVIDIA look particulary interesting. As the Cell is dead as a development project, although it may continue for sometime development will continue in the wild for quite sometime another reason why commercial entities may not feel comfortable in making contributions to such efforts. Work on the Tesla though interesting, if one is looking for what is available now which is indicative of where IBM is going there is only one system on the market currently which comes close and is affordable within the current consumer market -- the Toshiba SpursEngine. It was established last year that YDL will not run on the Toshiba SpursEngine. Also Fixstars announced in December that they are supporting and developing for homogeneous multicore processors; resources being limited as they are, it is doubtful they will change their mind. The next question then really is a matter of determining which Linux will. I did come across a brief mention that
