from:"larry maher"

Re: [Zen] Fools!

2013-07-22 Thread larry maher

Really great stuff.


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:18 AM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>  you betcha bill. suzuki took the words right out of my mouth..merle
>
>
>
> On one side we are all fools, but when we realize this we are enlightened,
> and when we make efforts in the face of it, we are bodhisattvas.
> -- Shunryu Suzuki
>
> ...Bill!
>
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] 15 Types of Western Buddhists

2013-07-23 Thread larry maher

've tried.
>
> Eccentric Guru Worship Clubs - These clubs are characterized by various
> temples run in multiple states, headed by a Guru who is either usually on
> the lamb, or and ex-convict. Their followers are adamant of their teachers
> power and lineage, and will go so far as to spend days on end slandering
> other Guru's from other clubs. It's like Tibetan fight club, expect it
> really really sucks to watch.(I guess it would be like if Brad Pitt and Ed
> Norton were replaced by Jim Carey and John Goodman) If random sex with bald
> nut-jobs inside an obscure Stupa is your cup of tea, than this may be the
> club for you.
>
> A Quote a Minute Society - This society has a massive database filled with
> any type of motivational or spiritual quotes, ready at the touch of a
> button. They can be found spamming twitter, facebook and forums with these
> quotes, with the intent that these thousands of Dr. Phil, Depak Chopra and
> Eckhart Tolle shit sentences will somehow transform you into the most well
> hung spiritual pimp ever! But don't be so bold as to ask them what they
> actually think, for you will be assaulted like the beaches of Normandy,
> with machine gun Rumi quotes and proverbs older than my grandmothers
> virginity.
>
> The Vajrayāna Tantric Warrior(might be a little nuts) League - These guys,
> while somewhat like the Zen Street Thugs in their confrontational
> mannerism, are differentiated by the fact that they are actually serious.
> They hold grudges longer than the Boston Red Sox Fans did against Bill
> Buckner, and sprout anger and venom as if it drained from their pores. They
> can be found by the fact they are usually writing about some insult
> perpetrated against them and ranting openly about things they'd like to do
> to them. These guys are like bikers from the 1970's that sold crank and
> smack to children, but somehow found religion.
>
> The Crackpot and Screwball Conglomeration - This conglomeration is one of
> the most dangerous groups out there. There motto is "We stalk any
> motherfucker." While rather menacing, they are easy to pick out of a crowd.
> They usually have dozens of websites that they update every hour with new
> and more psychotic rantings. They will profess to be ordained ministers in
> multiple religious organizations, express shock at how the entire world is
> plotting against them and pretend to run a small cult on the East Coast.
>
> "Most Original" Theravada Defenders - This righteous bunch can be defined
> by Westerners that moved to a foreign country to become a monk. They are
> offended by the slightest teenyist-tiniest thing, and are quick to speak of
> the nasty filthy Western punks destroying the Buddha Dharma. Even though
> they claim to be a follower of the "most bestest original" Buddhism ever,
> they seem quite miserable for devoting their lives to this tradition. They
> can be easily neutralized by copious amounts of profanity and in-depth
> discussions about the texture of poop.
>
> Way of Lifers; Too Cool to be Religious - Many students new to Buddhism go
> through this phase of becoming the torch bearer for stripping Buddhism of
> its robes and statues, to get to the heart of the teachings. Their dislikes
> are organized religion, any type of ancient rituals, good oral hygiene,
> spell checker and enjoyable sentence structure. They can be found ranting
> that they are the first ones to have this brilliant idea to secularize
> Buddhism, and blog with the intensity that would make most meth heads
> envious. They scream and holler, and rant and rave for usually no longer
> than a year, and once they find out they are like number 312,878 with that
> idea, they either quit or come back to realitysomewhat.
>
> Founders of the Easy Way - If a word ends with the letters 'SYNC' its a
> good bet you found one of these charlatans. They folks taut their
> miraculous break throughs in technology and philosophy to bring you
> products that beep enlightenment into your ear drums. They can also be
> characterized by new found paths of spiritual expediency, breaking down the
> barriers of dreaded practice and study, with a quick new way to the heart
> of the Buddhist teachings. These guys can usually be found promoting
> murderers, ex-convicts and in their spare time threaten to ruin some
> bloggers life.
>
> Insular Asian Community - They can be found by the fact that you can't
> find them. While making up the majority of Buddhists in the West, they
> appear to lack any interest in communicating or dealing with Buddhists
> outside of their community. I did send them a gift pack that contained a
> two liter bottle of Diet Mt. Dew, a poor boot-leg copy of Loretta Lynns'
> Greatest Hits and a years subscription to Juggs magazine, but alas no luck.
>
> - Kyle Lovett
>
> ...Bill!
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Is not coconut a miracle?

2013-07-24 Thread larry maher

olive oil.
>
>
> Topical uses for coconut oil:
> --Forms a chemical barrier on skin to protect and heal infections.
> --Topical applications relieve pain and swelling from hemorrhoids.
> --Moisturizes and softens dry skin.
> --Reduces bags, puffiness and wrinkles under eyes.
> --Lessens occurrence and appearance of varicose veins.
> --Preps skin before shaving.
> --Mixed with baking soda, coconut oil makes an effective toothpaste.
> --Soothes sunburned skin and promotes healing of burns and blisters.
> --Heals psoriasis and eczema lesions.
> --Stops pain, burning, and itching of bug and snake bites.
> --Prevents itching from poison ivy, oak, and sumac.
> --Promotes firm skin tone, preventing age spots, sagging and wrinkles.
> --Eliminates head lice.
> --Removes makeup easily.
> --Heals nail fungus under finger and toenails.
> --Prevent nosebleeds by applying light film inside nostrils.
> --In combination with cornstarch and baking soda, coconut oil makes an
> effective deodorant.
> --Makes an excellent massage oil, a natural personal lubricant, and
> great sunscreen.
> --Conditions hair, prevents split ends, reduces frizz, controls flaky
> scalp and dandruff.
> --Removes scars and stretch marks.
> --Repairs cracked, sore, dry nipples from nursing.
> --Heals diaper rash and removes cradle cap on babies.
>
>
> Nutritional uses for coconut oil:
> --Enhances absorption of nutrients and improves digestion.
> --Provides a quick energy source and stimulates metabolism.
> --Produces immediate, usable energy source rather than being stored as fat.
> --Increases metabolic rate, stabilizes body weight, and controls food
> cravings.
> --Enriches milk supply for breast-feeding women.
> --Doesn't form harmful by-products during cooking when used at high heat.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks and best regards
> J.Suresh
> New No.3, Old No.7,
> Chamiers road - 1st Lane,
> Alwarpet,
> Chennai - 600018
> Ph: 044 42030947
> Mobile: 91 9884071738
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks and best regards
> J.Suresh
> New No.3, Old No.7,
> Chamiers road - 1st Lane,
> Alwarpet,
> Chennai - 600018
> Ph: 044 42030947
> Mobile: 91 9884071738
>
>
> 
>
> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Humble, is it slavery?

2013-07-25 Thread larry maher

Sometimes life is just difficult, sometimes harsh.


On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 8:06 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Can anyone define what is to be 'Humble'?
>
> Since sometimes back one of my old senior colleague advised me that
> "whether you are right or wrong is not important, be humble, and
> humble since you have special children you need to be much more
> humbled." He used to be like my well-wisher.
>
> As you all know I used to argue with all without fear in Brahmin
> forums, zen forum, you can imagine my attitude is same elsewhere. Yes I
> used to
> argue with people in two Marine forums without fear. This had created
> a lot of problems for me. Some very senior people in the forum holding
> very high position in company called my company owner and told about
> my way of argument, and hence owner called me in front of all my
> senior colleagues and warned me to strict only to my work.
>
> After few months I left the company and when I gave my resignation, my
> immediate boss asked me why am I leaving the company?, I told 'since
> you people have threatened me I am leaving'. He said 'we all love you
> and hence we wanted you not to get into any troubles in future and
> hence warned you'. But he was not ready for increment which other
> company was giving me, so I left, but soon after that company also
> closed down their shipping division.
>
> So this my senior old colleague called my present colleague and asked
> about my behavior and it seems he did not give good report, so he
> called me and advised me like this.
>
> I am wondering what do people expect in terms of Humble, is it
> slavery? People don't like to be questioned, either they don’t know
> the answer or they are afraid that person questioning will become
> superior over them.
>
> My colleague is afraid of my arguments, he always says no arguments. I
> am not supposed to argue with Boss, why? Am I slave? If Boss is wrong,
> how to prove he is wrong? (If I don't prove wrong both me and my boss
> will be loser)
>
> Before joining this company itself I have argued with the current Boss
> to retain my old mobile number, else he was forcing a new sim card in
> the name of company policy, which I did not like. I told him a policy
> has to be keep changing as and when situation changes, you cannot keep
> one policy throughout your life of the company, such company will fall
> down soon.
>
> So he changed the HR policy and I retained my old mobile number. I
> also told him I know many government and senior officers in big
> company, and all those people know me by this number, so when I call
> them, they may pick up and answer me, else any new number such people
> will not attend only. So I need to introduce all, and some very
> seniors may not be interested to update my number. So I am the loser
> and if I am loser then the company is loser, because I may contact
> them only for company purpose and not for personnel.
>
> So people are afraid to argue with seniors or Boss and thereby remain
> as slave and thereby lose all merits one may get.
>
> I like our forum members to advise me honestly how should I change and
> how to be humble but at the same time not be a slave.
>
>
> Best wishes
> Suresh
>
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks and best regards
> J.Suresh
> New No.3, Old No.7,
> Chamiers road - 1st Lane,
> Alwarpet,
> Chennai - 600018
> Ph: 044 42030947
> Mobile: 91 9884071738
>
>
> 
>
> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Return to Emptiness: from nervous nellie

2013-07-28 Thread larry maher

 and the name of
>> your college or university. We will send you a free electronic copy of
>> the entire book (identical to the physical copy, including the front &
>> back cover).*
>>   *EXCERPTS FROM THE WITHDRAWAL
>> OF HUMAN PROJECTION
>>
>> M. D. Faber on Money, Capitalism and Consumerism*
>> The drive for wealth is closely bound up with the drive for omnipotence.
>> *Money denies dependence. *Because money functions as an agent of
>> control at the deep psychological level, providing the dependent
>> personality with the dream of unlimited power, wealth becomes in the
>> transitional mode a means of accomplishing one's total independence. Were
>> one to possess the object entirely one would not need the object any more.
>> The capitalist, in his insatiable greed, is willing to sacrifice human
>> beings, the very "flesh and blood, nerves and brains" of working people in
>> order to maximize his profit, which is derived from human labor. Like the
>> Aztecs of old, the owners of industries, of mines and factories, are
>> "prodigal with human lives," casual about "wasting" the men and women to
>> whom they believe they have some sort of natural right. "When profits are
>> at stake," writes Marx, "killing is no murder," just as in the religious
>> sacrifice of human beings killing is also no murder but a "religious"
>> action.
>> Because interest leads to money after a period of waiting—and because
>> money is a symbol rooted in the drive to control and reunite with the
>> internalized object—interest becomes a psychological scheme to fill time
>> with the magical presence of the maternal figure. One is making money as
>> time passes, and to this extent the emptiness of time is denied, the
>> absence of the object is denied; indeed, the emptiness of time and the
>> object's absence are only *illusions.*
>> Time is not simply passing, it is breeding money, which makes one secure
>> in its passing. Thus the interest in interest attests to the individual's
>> desire to be imaging unconsciously the object of one's security *all the
>> time, *just as the child has the mother *all the time *at the level of
>> his primary, internalized *holding. *The feed of cash proceeds
>> uninterruptedly at the level of transitional need. One "goes through life"
>> with his lips at the breast.
>> Our passionate chase after *goods *is, first. our attempt to discover
>> new forms of attachment" in our alienated, kin-less culture, our paradise
>> *lost. *We shop, buy, *consume, *feed ourselves "products," in a
>> pathetic, obsessive struggle to deny the absence of those flesh-and-blood
>> contacts that formerly tied people together and provided them with precious
>> compensation for the *loss *of the object. Second, we make our obsessive
>> economic activity, our endless oral frenzy, a part of the "national
>> purpose," or indeed the national purpose *itself *("the richest country
>> in the world!")—in an effort to convince ourselves that we do in fact live
>> in a genuine society, a truly cohesive group, a shared community of emotion
>> and purpose. We know deep down, however, that loneliness and isolation are
>> the rule.
>>
>>   * The Withdrawal of Human Projection:
>> Separating from the Symbolic Order*
>> *Table of Contents*
>> *Foreword by Richard A. Koenigsberg*
>>
>> *Acknowledgements*
>>
>> *Part One: The Transitional Nature of Ordinary Consciousness *
>>
>>1. The Process of Mind-Body Conversion
>>2. From the Cradle
>>3. The Internalization of the World
>>4. The Mirror
>>5. The Dark Side of the Mirror: Splitting
>>6. The Agony of Differentiation
>>7. The Sands of Time and the Container of Space
>>8. The Stimulus Itself
>>9. The Ward
>>10. The Tie to the Culture
>>11. The Oedipus, and After
>>12. Notes and References Part One
>>
>> *Part Two: The Cultural Sphere *
>>
>>1. Some Background
>>2. The Religio-Economic Realm
>>3. Money and Magna Mater
>>4. The Sacrificial Way to the Object
>>5. Sacred Lucre
>>6. Psychodynamic Extrapolations
>>7. The Metaphors of Marx
>>8. The Interest in Interest
>>9. The Vicious Circle and the Bad Parent
>>10. More Opiates, More Anxieties
>>11. Lurking Ambivalence
>>12. Goods and More Goods
>>13. Notes and References Part Two
>>
>> *Part Three: Disrupting the Tie to the Inner World*
>>
>>1. A Glance Backward, A Glance Forward
>>2. The Meaning of Non-Ordinary Moments
>>3. The Emergence of the Non-Ordinary World
>>4. Solidifying One's Change
>>5. Transforming the Past at the Mind-Body Level
>>6. Notes and References Part Three
>>
>>
>>   *Because we believe The Withdrawal of Human Projection is an important
>> book—and wish to assure that it achieves the widest possible circulation—we
>> are offering a free copy to college instructors if you will simply ask
>> your library to order a copy. Please respond to this email—write to
>> oander...@libraryofsocialscience.com—providing your name and the name of
>> your college or university. We will send you a free electronic copy of
>> the entire book (identical to the physical copy, including the front &
>> back cover).*
>>   This message was sent to bmles...@tpg.com.au by
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>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Movie trailer for Zorba the Greek

2013-07-29 Thread larry maher

I should watch Zorba again.


On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 6:02 AM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> lest we forget...
>
> this in my books is the pure zen zen zen experience..merle
>
>
> *Subject: **Movie trailer for Zorba the Greek(1964) by Anna Oproiu
> 2o1o.avi - YouTube*
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHz7d4i3xWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Movie trailer for Zorba the Greek

2013-07-29 Thread larry maher

I vaguely remember it. Guess people saw more in it than I did? Seven years
in Tibet wasn't bad. Bunch of others I can't think of.


On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Eccentrics.R.US
wrote:

> **
>
>
> have never seen the movie, having a hard time understanding his words,
> maybe i'll look up the book first...
>
> M
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:18 PM, larry maher  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I should watch Zorba again.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 6:02 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> lest we forget...
>>>
>>> this in my books is the pure zen zen zen experience..merle
>>>
>>>
>>> *Subject: **Movie trailer for Zorba the Greek(1964) by Anna Oproiu
>>> 2o1o.avi - YouTube*
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHz7d4i3xWA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Larry Maher*
>>
>>
>>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Movie trailer for Zorba the Greek

2013-07-29 Thread larry maher

You have read the 'bible' of yoga haven't you? "The Autobiography of a
Yogi." Unbelievably good. Also Julien Jaynes' "The Breakdown of
Conciousness and the Bicameral Brain." Also Zen and the Art of Archery and
Zen and Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" and anything that Yogani from
AYP.com has written. :)

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:

> **
>
>
> The book "Zorba the Greek" I believe is the origin of the phrase "The Full
> Catastrophe" of the Mindfullness-Based Stress Reduction book of that name.
>  I never saw the movie or read the book, although I did enjoy the
> Kabat-Zinn book "The Full Catastrophe."
>
> --Chris
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Chris
> ch...@austin-lane.net
> +1-301-270-6524
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:48 PM, larry maher  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I vaguely remember it. Guess people saw more in it than I did? Seven
>> years in Tibet wasn't bad. Bunch of others I can't think of.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Eccentrics.R.US<http://eccentrics.r.us/>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>>
>>>
>>>  have never seen the movie, having a hard time understanding his words,
>>> maybe i'll look up the book first...
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:18 PM, larry maher wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I should watch Zorba again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 6:02 AM, Merle Lester 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> **
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   lest we forget...
>>>>>
>>>>> this in my books is the pure zen zen zen experience..merle
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  *Subject: **Movie trailer for Zorba the Greek(1964) by Anna Oproiu
>>>>> 2o1o.avi - YouTube*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHz7d4i3xWA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Larry Maher*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Larry Maher*
>>
>>
>>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Movie trailer for Zorba the Greek

2013-07-30 Thread larry maher

Yeah sorry that should be AYPsite.com, my fault. Thanks for the book
titles, I'll look for them.


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:

> **
>
>
> My dad read breakdown of the bicameral mind when I was a kid, but talked
> so much about it I always believed I had a sufficient grasp of the
> contents.  I rather enjoyed Zen and the Art of Archery, tho I have also
> read this critique:
>
>
> http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/CriticalZen/The_Myth_of_Zen_in_the_Art_of_Archery.pdf
>
> I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, tho it rather is more in
> my category of "books having to do with mental illness" than "books having
> to do with non-duality."  But then I'm more of a "Cheerio Road" kind of
> reader - the dharma gate of parenting rather than the dharma gate of
> motorcycles.
>
> I get no hits on AYP.com
>
> Since my son aged out of "Baby and Me" yoga the only yoga I do is on
> sesshin, and merely for the comfort effects.  Tho I'm tempted to sign up
> for a class every time I walk by a yoga studio, every one I've mentioned
> this to has pointed out I could just do yoga at home.
>
> I really enjoyed the Baby and Me yoga class tho - I felt very wholesomely
> good afterwards.
>
> My favorite sort of macho-Zen from the 60s book is the Three Pillars of
> Zen.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Chris
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Chris
> ch...@austin-lane.net
> +1-301-270-6524
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 8:43 PM, larry maher  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> You have read the 'bible' of yoga haven't you? "The Autobiography of a
>> Yogi." Unbelievably good. Also Julien Jaynes' "The Breakdown of
>> Conciousness and the Bicameral Brain." Also Zen and the Art of Archery and
>> Zen and Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" and anything that Yogani from
>> AYP.com has written. :)
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Chris Austin-Lane > > wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>>
>>>
>>> The book "Zorba the Greek" I believe is the origin of the phrase "The
>>> Full Catastrophe" of the Mindfullness-Based Stress Reduction book of that
>>> name.  I never saw the movie or read the book, although I did enjoy the
>>> Kabat-Zinn book "The Full Catastrophe."
>>>
>>> --Chris
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> --Chris
>>> ch...@austin-lane.net
>>> +1-301-270-6524
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:48 PM, larry maher wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I vaguely remember it. Guess people saw more in it than I did? Seven
>>>> years in Tibet wasn't bad. Bunch of others I can't think of.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Eccentrics.R.US<http://eccentrics.r.us/>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> **
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  have never seen the movie, having a hard time understanding his
>>>>> words, maybe i'll look up the book first...
>>>>>
>>>>> M
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:18 PM, larry maher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I should watch Zorba again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 6:02 AM, Merle Lester >>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   lest we forget...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this in my books is the pure zen zen zen experience..merle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  *Subject: **Movie trailer for Zorba the Greek(1964) by Anna Oproiu
>>>>>>> 2o1o.avi - YouTube*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHz7d4i3xWA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Larry Maher*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Larry Maher*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Larry Maher*
>>
>>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] "Stillness Speaks".

2013-08-14 Thread larry maher

Thanks for the reminder, great book and great guy tis ole Eckhart, is he
not?

On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 2:43 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote:

> **
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> I was surprised on this sudden silence in this forum. I thought today
> while coming to office that have I been removed from this forum? why
> no mails are coming? let me check directly on yahoo group site. So
> then I opened the site and noticed that for last 7 days no activity at
> all in the forum.
>
> So to break this silence, I am posting this Stillness speaks. Let at
> least stillness speaks, if minds don't want to speak.
>
> best wishes
> Suresh
> --
>
> "Feel the energy of your inner body.
> Immediately mental noise slows down or ceases.
> Feel it in your hands, your feet,
> your abdomen, your chest.
> Feel the life that you are,
> the life that animates the body.
> The body then becomes a doorway, so to speak,
> into a deeper sense of aliveness
> underneath the fluctuating emotions
> and underneath your thinking.
>
> There is an aliveness in you
> that you can feel with your entire Being,
> not just in the head.
> Every cell is alive in that presence
> in which you don't need to think.
> Yet, in that state,
> if thought is required for some practical purpose,
> it is there.
> The mind can still operate,
> and it operates beautifully
> when the greater intelligence that you are
> uses it and expresses itself through it."
>
> ~ Eckhart Tolle
> from: "Stillness Speaks".
>
> --
> Thanks and best regards
> J.Suresh
> New No.3, Old No.7,
> Chamiers road - 1st Lane,
> Alwarpet,
> Chennai - 600018
> Ph: 044 42030947
> Mobile: 91 9884071738
> 
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

2013-08-22 Thread larry maher

Your shame or anger for your son not speaking is because you are focusing
on the expectations of others and what they might think. Kids can be
enormously frustrating and sometimes we strike out. You apologized, that's
about all you can do for now. Go easy with him. Perhaps he's going through
his own little Zen experience? Easy does it, brother. It all balances out
with love.
The best


On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 10:19 AM,  wrote:

> Dear sirs,
>
> Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. I
> become very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least he used
> to parrot what we say and for his name, he will say his name.
>
> For last one month he has stopped talking and all his needs are by just
> indication or some sound. His schools and therapist complaint to us but
> can't do by them selves.
>
> He hit me first, that instigated my anger and I wanted to show my anger
> controlled expecting at least a word to say daddy stop, but he did not. I
> have holding for than 20 minutes, but all the time he cried but no word
> came out of his mouth.
>
> I am pained for not speaking and also pained because unnecessarily I have
> tortured him.
>
> I have asked forgiveness from him, but still he looks at me suspicious
> whether his father really changed or just another opportunity to beat him.
>
> I asked forgiveness to god, but still my pain not gone and hence this
> confession to this group.
>
> Pray god for my younger son to speak soon.
>
> I believe in prayers, and group prayer for one cause can do wonders.
>
> What ever I will achieve in any field will not give me satisfaction unless
> my children become normal. Especially elder son getting better, but only
> worried about younger son.
>
> Please pray.
>
>
> Suresh
>
> Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
>
> 
>
> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

2013-08-23 Thread larry maher

can be achieved once one has surpassed the
> breath counting saga?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â i have belief that monks can practise a
> form of meditation whereby the can slow the whole body/ mind totally down
> to an almost non existent state
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > in all the many previous post there has been much focus on
> slowing the mind down..however the body..does it have a mind of it's own so
> to speak?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > after all there are millions of tiny organisms..rummaging in
> the body that we do not have any control over what so ever...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > (meditate as long and hard as you want, they do their own
> thing regardless)...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a whole eco system...one could say a universe lies in the gut
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â my zen question is thus:
> ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â to be totally free ..the human body is it a restraint?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â merle
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > > > Merle
> > > > > > > www.wix.com/merlewiitpom/1
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

2013-08-23 Thread larry maher

I have. A few times, a few words. The bridge opened as a reaction to some
extreme things going on in my life. I just thought it was weird or funny at
the time. Still do.

On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:05 AM, pandabananasock  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Has anyone here experienced hearing their mind aloud? I mean really
> HEARING, not thoughts.
>
>  
>

-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

2013-08-23 Thread larry maher

Thank you so much.


On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Edgar Owen  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Larry,
>
> Bill and me, Edgar, are co-moderators of the group...
>
> Edgar
>
>
>
> On Aug 23, 2013, at 12:32 PM, larry maher wrote:
>
>
>
> Can anyone help me? I'm new here. I was just wondering who the forum head
> was? If the answer is no one could I please find out who Merle or Bill is?
> The one with the 45 yrs of meditation. I won't bother anyone, am just
> trying to figure this out.
> Thank you
> Larry
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  bill...so you are still telling me pain is a delusion?... tell me next
>> time when you are in deep pain..try a very bad toothache..see it as a
>> delusion and don't visit the dentist...how long will you last before you
>> realise it is real and needs attention?...merle
>>
>>
>> Merle,
>>
>> As you should very well know by now I don't identify with being a
>> Buddhist.
>>
>> I do however practice zen and have for over 45 years; but just because I
>> practice zen doesn't mean I don't feel pain, or have other delusions. What
>> it means is that (most of the time) I am not attached to those delusions.
>>
>> ...Bill!
>>
>> ...Bill!
>>
>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Â bill...acceptance is the key...what sort odf a zen buddhist are
>> you?..merle
>> > Â
>> > Merle,
>> >
>> > Yes! Why me? Why not someone else? Someone I don't like? Someone who
>> doesn't look like me or is the same color as me or speaks the same language
>> as I do. Someone ELSE!
>> >
>> > ...Bill!
>> >
>> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester  wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Ã‚Â bill...not why me...that's plain silly..why not you?...merle
>> > > Ã‚Â
>> > > Merle,
>> > >
>> > > I have been in pain before. When I am in pain I don't think of pain
>> as a judgmental delusion, I think of it as pain and judge it to be bad; and
>> maybe even think "Poor, poor me! Why do I have to suffer all this pain?
>> What did I do to deserve this? I just want it to go away!".
>> > >
>> > > ...Bill!
>> > >
>> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester  wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â have you been in pain bill..and thought it was judgemental
>> delusion?...merle
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
>> > > > Merle,
>> > > >
>> > > > I don't know how you got from what I said earlier to your post
>> below.
>> > > >
>> > > > The experience of feeling/touch is real. That experience is Buddha
>> Nature. The classification of it as 'pain' is the judgmental delusion. Just
>> as the experience of sight is real. The classification of it as 'a red
>> bird' is the delusion.
>> > > >
>> > > > ...Bill!
>> > > >
>> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester 
>> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â bill...i see...so if one is in pain..this is
>> an illusion..try telling that to someone bowled over and in agony...merle
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
>> > > > > Merle,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I also want to add that experiencing Buddha Nature, such as
>> through zazen, does not involve a disconnection with the body. It involves
>> a disconnection with the illusion of self and all dualism.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ...Bill!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!"  wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Merle,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > No, the body is not a restraint. It is a gateway - at least as
>> far as zen is concerned. The body, or at least its ability to afford
>> awareness of reality, is the necessary component of Buddha Nature for not
>> only humans but all beings as we know them.
>> > > >

Re: [Zen] clarification

2013-08-23 Thread larry maher

Do you mean me, Sir? Do you need my clarification? If so, let me just say
it was no big deal when it happened but I'll tell you if you want.


On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>  clarification please...merle
>
> I have. A few times, a few words. The bridge opened as a reaction to some
> extreme things going on in my life. I just thought it was weird or funny at
> the time. Still do.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:05 AM, pandabananasock <
> pandabananas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> **
>
>  Has anyone here experienced hearing their mind aloud? I mean really
> HEARING, not thoughts.
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

2013-08-23 Thread larry maher

gt; > > I also want to add that experiencing Buddha Nature, such as
> through zazen, does not involve a disconnection with the body. It involves
> a disconnection with the illusion of self and all dualism.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!"  wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, the body is not a restraint. It is a gateway - at least as
> far as zen is concerned. The body, or at least its ability to afford
> awareness of reality, is the necessary component of Buddha Nature for not
> only humans but all beings as we know them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester 
> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > i know this is a little crazy..however here i
> go..ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > the human body..can we exist without it?...we do when we are
> in cyber space although we need the body to get the messages out
> there...mm that has me stumped!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > would this body less be liken to the meditation
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â state that can be achieved once
> one has surpassed the breath counting saga?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â i have belief that
> monks can practise a form of meditation whereby the can slow the whole
> body/ mind totally down to an almost non existent state
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > in all the many previous post there has been much focus on
> slowing the mind down..however the body..does it have a mind of it's own so
> to speak?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > after all there are millions of tiny organisms..rummaging in
> the body that we do not have any control over what so ever...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (meditate as long and hard as you want, they do their own
> thing regardless)...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > a whole eco system...one could say a universe lies in the gut
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â my zen question is
> thus: ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â to be totally free ..the
> human body is it a restraint?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â merle
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > > > > Merle
> > > > > > > > www.wix.com/merlewiitpom/1
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Evolve or die

2013-08-23 Thread larry maher

Heck, don't the Veda's go back 5 or 6 thousand years?


On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 7:44 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote:

> THE URGENCY OF TRANSFORMATION - ECKHART TOLLE
>
> When faced with a radical crisis, when the old way of being in the
> world, of interacting with each other and with the realm of nature doesn’t
> work anymore, when survival is threatened by seemingly insurmountable
> problems, an individual lifeform– or a species – will either die or become
> extinct or rise above the limitations of its condition through an
> evolutionary
> leap.
>
> It is believed that the lifeforms on this planet first evolved in the sea.
> When there were no animals yet to be found on land, the sea was already
> teeming with life.
>
> Then at some point, one of the sea creatures must have started to
> venture onto dry land. It would perhaps crawl a few inches at
> first,then exhausted by the enormous gravitational pull of the planet,
> it would return to the water, where gravity is almost nonexistent and
> where it could live with much greater ease.
>
> And then it tried again and again and again, and much later would
> adapt to life on land, grow feet instead of fins, develop lungs
> instead of gills. It seems unlikely that a species would venture into
> such an alien environment and undergo an evolutionary transformation
> unless it was compelled to do so by some crisis situation.
>
> There may have been a large sea area that got cut off from the main
> ocean where the water gradually receded over thousands of years,
> forcing fish to leave their habitatand evolve.
>
> Responding to a radical crisis that threatens our very survival – this is
> humanity’s challenge now.
>
> The dysfunction of the egoic human mind, recognized already more than
> 2,500 years ago by the ancient wisdom teachers and now magnified
> through science and technology, is for the first time threatening the
> survival of the planet.
>
> Until very recently, the transformation of human consciousness – also
> pointed to by the ancient teachers – was no more than a possibility,
> realized by a few rare individuals here and there, irrespective of
> cultural or religious background.
>
> A widespread flowering of human consciousness did not happen because it was
> not yet imperative.
>
> A significant portion of the earth’s population will soon recognize, if
> they haven’t already done so, that humanity is now faced with a stark
> choice:
> Evolve or die.
>
>  A still relatively small but rapidly growing percentage of humanity
> is already experiencing within themselves the breakup of the old egoic
> mind patterns and the emergence of a new dimension of consciousness.
>
> What is arising now is not a new belief system, a new religion,
> spiritual ideology, or mythology.
>
> We are coming to the end not only of mythologies but also of
> ideologies and belief systems.
>
> The change goes deeper than the content of your mind, deeper than your
> thoughts. In fact, at the heart of the new consciousness is the
> transcendence of thought, the
> newfound ability of rising above thought, of realizing a dimension
> within yourself that is infinitely more vast than thought.
>
> You then no longer derive your identity, your sense of who you are,
> from the incessant stream of thinking that in the old consciousness
> you take to be yourself.
>
> What a liberation to realize that the “voice in my head” is not who I
> am. Who am I
> then? The one who sees that. The awareness that is prior to thought, the
> space in which the thought – or the emotion or sense perception – happens
>
> --
> Thanks and best regards
> J.Suresh
> New No.3, Old No.7,
> Chamiers road - 1st Lane,
> Alwarpet,
> Chennai - 600018
> Ph: 044 42030947
> Mobile: 91 9884071738
>
>
> 
>
> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

2013-08-23 Thread larry maher

Yes, yes totally agree. I just mentioned reading years ago that the Buddha
said believe whatever's easier while following the middle way.


On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 2:27 AM,  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Larry,
>
> Why would Zen be looking for a God? That would just be creating an
> unnecessary dualism. The universe works perfectly well without the need to
> create a Creator.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> * From: * larry maher ;
> * To: * ;
> * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
> * Sent: * Sat, Aug 24, 2013 6:20:48 AM
>
>
>
> Zen is a religion looking for a God. The Buddha said 'there is no way to
> prove God and there is no way to not prove, so believe whatever works for
> you.' That's why I like Eastern thought, Hindu's cool also, just too many
> gimics and sideshows and people thinking dressing in white bathrobes helps
> get you somewhere. Lots of culture confusion. Just my opinion.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  from what i gather you would not have zen if you did not have
>> buddhism..correct me if i am incorrect..merle
>>
>> Merle,
>>
>> Yes. IMO zen is not an exclusive subset or sect of Buddhism.
>>
>> Buddhism is a religion has does have many, many lists of principles,
>> dogma, doctrines, rituals, precepts, vows, etc... All these IMO have
>> nothing directly to do with zen, but in the case of Zen Buddhism are like
>> an add-on covering and adornments that are wrapped around zen. In the case
>> of most other Buddhist sects zen does not play any part, and is in fact
>> seen as a cult.
>>
>> This is why I draw a distinction between zen with a lower-case 'z' which
>> is a common noun and refers only the zen in general, and Zen with an
>> upper-case 'Z' which is a proper noun referring to Zen Buddhism.
>>
>> This again is IMO and is not the traditional view of Zen Buddhism...by
>> those that identify themselves as Zen Buddhists.
>>
>> ...Bill!
>>
>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Â hallo bill...so tell me why oh why is the classification referred to
>> as zen buddhism?... can you have zen without buddhist principles?... merle
>> > Â
>> > Merle,
>> >
>> > As you should very well know by now I don't identify with being a
>> Buddhist.
>> >
>> > I do however practice zen and have for over 45 years; but just because
>> I practice zen doesn't mean I don't feel pain, or have other delusions.
>> What it means is that (most of the time) I am not attached to those
>> delusions.
>> >
>> > ...Bill!
>> >
>> > ...Bill!
>> >
>> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester  wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Ã‚Â bill...acceptance is the key...what sort odf a zen buddhist are
>> you?..merle
>> > > Ã‚Â
>> > > Merle,
>> > >
>> > > Yes! Why me? Why not someone else? Someone I don't like? Someone who
>> doesn't look like me or is the same color as me or speaks the same language
>> as I do. Someone ELSE!
>> > >
>> > > ...Bill!
>> > >
>> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester  wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â bill...not why me...that's plain silly..why not
>> you?...merle
>> > > > Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
>> > > > Merle,
>> > > >
>> > > > I have been in pain before. When I am in pain I don't think of pain
>> as a judgmental delusion, I think of it as pain and judge it to be bad; and
>> maybe even think "Poor, poor me! Why do I have to suffer all this pain?
>> What did I do to deserve this? I just want it to go away!".
>> > > >
>> > > > ...Bill!
>> > > >
>> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester 
>> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â have you been in pain bill..and thought it
>> was judgemental delusion?...merle
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
>> > > > > Merle,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I don

Re: [Zen] buddha nature

2013-08-23 Thread larry maher

'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â have you been in pain
> bill..and thought it was judgemental delusion?...merle
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know how you got from what I said earlier to your post
> below.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The experience of feeling/touch is real. That experience is
> Buddha Nature. The classification of it as 'pain' is the judgmental
> delusion. Just as the experience of sight is real. The classification of it
> as 'a red bird' is the delusion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester 
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â 
> bill...i
> see...so if one is in pain..this is an illusion..try telling that to
> someone bowled over and in agony...merle
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
>
> > > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also want to add that experiencing Buddha Nature, such as
> through zazen, does not involve a disconnection with the body. It involves
> a disconnection with the illusion of self and all dualism.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!"  wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No, the body is not a restraint. It is a gateway - at least
> as far as zen is concerned. The body, or at least its ability to afford
> awareness of reality, is the necessary component of Buddha Nature for not
> only humans but all beings as we know them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester
>  wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > i know this is a little crazy..however here i
> go..ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > the human body..can we exist without it?...we do when we
> are in cyber space although we need the body to get the messages out
> there...mm that has me stumped!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > would this body less be liken to the meditation
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â 
> state
> that can be achieved once one has surpassed the breath counting saga?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â i
> have belief that monks can practise a form of meditation whereby the can
> slow the whole body/ mind totally down to an almost non existent state
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > in all the many previous post there has been much focus on
> slowing the mind down..however the body..does it have a mind of it's own so
> to speak?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > after all there are millions of tiny organisms..rummaging
> in the body that we do not have any control over what so ever...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > (meditate as long and hard as you want, they do their own
> thing regardless)...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > a whole eco system...one could say a universe lies in the
> gut
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â my
> zen question is thus:
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â to
> be totally free ..the human body is it a restraint?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â 
> merle
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > > > > > Merle
> > > > > > > > > www.wix.com/merlewiitpom/1
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] buddha nature

2013-08-23 Thread larry maher

m@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester 
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â have you been in pain
> bill..and thought it was judgemental delusion?...merle
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know how you got from what I said earlier to your post
> below.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The experience of feeling/touch is real. That experience is
> Buddha Nature. The classification of it as 'pain' is the judgmental
> delusion. Just as the experience of sight is real. The classification of it
> as 'a red bird' is the delusion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester 
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â 
> bill...i
> see...so if one is in pain..this is an illusion..try telling that to
> someone bowled over and in agony...merle
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
>
> > > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also want to add that experiencing Buddha Nature, such as
> through zazen, does not involve a disconnection with the body. It involves
> a disconnection with the illusion of self and all dualism.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!"  wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No, the body is not a restraint. It is a gateway - at least
> as far as zen is concerned. The body, or at least its ability to afford
> awareness of reality, is the necessary component of Buddha Nature for not
> only humans but all beings as we know them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester
>  wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > i know this is a little crazy..however here i
> go..ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > the human body..can we exist without it?...we do when we
> are in cyber space although we need the body to get the messages out
> there...mm that has me stumped!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > would this body less be liken to the meditation
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â 
> state
> that can be achieved once one has surpassed the breath counting saga?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â i
> have belief that monks can practise a form of meditation whereby the can
> slow the whole body/ mind totally down to an almost non existent state
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > in all the many previous post there has been much focus on
> slowing the mind down..however the body..does it have a mind of it's own so
> to speak?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > after all there are millions of tiny organisms..rummaging
> in the body that we do not have any control over what so ever...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > (meditate as long and hard as you want, they do their own
> thing regardless)...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > a whole eco system...one could say a universe lies in the
> gut
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â my
> zen question is thus:
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â to
> be totally free ..the human body is it a restraint?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â 
> merle
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > > > > > Merle
> > > > > > > > > www.wix.com/merlewiitpom/1
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

2013-08-24 Thread larry maher

I am very very impressed with how you lived your life. I found this, well,
to be frank, all too late. I knew about it, read about it, even tried it a
few times but I didn't get more interested until I was desperate.
Thanks,
Larry
PS I've sort of belonged to a open internet group with a terrific
moderator. It's called AYPsite.com.


On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 4:07 AM, Bill!  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Mike,
>
> No and Yes...
>
> The "no" part is that I experienced Buddha Nature on my own before
> encountering zen. I'm sure we all have. When we were infants before our
> intellect was developed enough to create the delusion of duality/plurality
> I believe we were experiencing Buddha Nature. Also, even later, when we
> became completely absorbed in something, like sports or art or nature, we
> also may have experienced Buddha Nature. In my case however I just did not
> know what it was and its significance.
>
> The "yes" part is that it was first reading about zen (Alan Watts) and
> then formal Zen Buddhist training (Japanese Rinzai and Soto schools) that
> enabled me to rediscover Buddha Nature, learn to purposely experience it,
> appreciate its significance and begin to integrate it more fully into my
> daily life.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, uerusuboyo@... wrote:
> >
> > Bill!,Would you agree that you probably would never have
> experienced 'zen' without Siddharta Gotama's enlightenment and the
> spreading of the sutras? I agree that experiencing Buddha Nature is not
> intrinsically dependent on them, but it may as well be. Without Buddha's
> rediscovering of Buddha Nature we'd probably still be believing in souls
> and the reality of an ego. MikeSent from Yahoo!
> Mail for iPad
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] buddha nature

2013-08-24 Thread larry maher

;Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > Merle,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been in pain before. When I am in pain I don't think of
> pain as a judgmental delusion, I think of it as pain and judge it to be
> bad; and maybe even think "Poor, poor me! Why do I have to suffer all this
> pain? What did I do to deserve this? I just want it to go away!".
> > > > >
> > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester 
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â have you been in pain
> bill..and thought it was judgemental delusion?...merle
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know how you got from what I said earlier to your post
> below.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The experience of feeling/touch is real. That experience is
> Buddha Nature. The classification of it as 'pain' is the judgmental
> delusion. Just as the experience of sight is real. The classification of it
> as 'a red bird' is the delusion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester 
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â 
> bill...i
> see...so if one is in pain..this is an illusion..try telling that to
> someone bowled over and in agony...merle
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
>
> > > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also want to add that experiencing Buddha Nature, such as
> through zazen, does not involve a disconnection with the body. It involves
> a disconnection with the illusion of self and all dualism.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!"  wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Merle,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No, the body is not a restraint. It is a gateway - at least
> as far as zen is concerned. The body, or at least its ability to afford
> awareness of reality, is the necessary component of Buddha Nature for not
> only humans but all beings as we know them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester
>  wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > i know this is a little crazy..however here i
> go..ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > the human body..can we exist without it?...we do when we
> are in cyber space although we need the body to get the messages out
> there...mm that has me stumped!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > would this body less be liken to the meditation
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â 
> state
> that can be achieved once one has surpassed the breath counting saga?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â i
> have belief that monks can practise a form of meditation whereby the can
> slow the whole body/ mind totally down to an almost non existent state
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > in all the many previous post there has been much focus on
> slowing the mind down..however the body..does it have a mind of it's own so
> to speak?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > after all there are millions of tiny organisms..rummaging
> in the body that we do not have any control over what so ever...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > (meditate as long and hard as you want, they do their own
> thing regardless)...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > a whole eco system...one could say a universe lies in the
> gut
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â my
> zen question is thus:
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â to
> be totally free ..the human body is it a restraint?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â 
> merle
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ÃƒÆ'Ã†'Ãƒâ€ 
> 'ÃƒÆ'Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã†'ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ'Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
> > > > > > > > > Merle
> > > > > > > > > www.wix.com/merlewiitpom/1
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] buddha nature

2013-08-24 Thread larry maher

Thank you for trying to send me something interesting. Unfortunately I
didn't get it.
Larry


On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>   too much far too much intellectualisation..and too much blah blah
> blah...merle
>
> Bill!,
>
> I'd still be careful as to the distinction between acting on auto-pilot
> and being completely awake as to what you are doing.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> * From: * Bill! ;
> * To: * ;
> * Subject: * Re: [Zen] buddha nature
> * Sent: * Sat, Aug 24, 2013 8:50:56 AM
>
>
> Mike,
>
> Read the link I posted earlier for my intellectualization of the origin of
> duality - as exemplified by the delusion of self:
>
> http://www.billsmart.com/writing/zen/self/self.htm
>
> If you strip away duality what you have left is Buddha Nature. This is in
> both of the cases of children and in the case of humans before they had a
> well-developed and dominating intellect.
>
> I do think that in the case of children (infants) you start with Buddha
> Nature and then add layers (or maybe only one layer that gets more and more
> complex) of intellect. Zen techniques such as zazen, chanting, bowing,
> koans, etc... are designed to start stripping those layers until all that's
> left is Buddha Nature - now unobscured by the layers of intellect.
>
> I didn't use the examples of 'driving your car' and certainly not
> 'listening to the radio'. I could use 'driving your car' as long as you are
> not needing to think about where you are going, like following a map or
> directions or something like that. The act of turning the wheel to go right
> or left, pushing on the accelerator to speed up or jamming on the brakes to
> stop certainly could be examples of Buddha Nature in action. As long as you
> are not thinking about them, intellectualizing about them, they may indeed
> be.
>
> Here's a good example of that in a famous zen mondo which is the basis for
> a koan:
>
> "Yunyan asked Daowu, "How does the Bodhisattva Guanyin use those many
> hands and eyes?" Daowu answered, "It is like someone in the middle of the
> night reaching behind her head for the pillow."
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, uerusuboyo@... wrote:
> >
> > Bill!,The Buddha Nature of a child isn't the same though, in
> the sense that layers are being formed rather than stripped. I'd also be
> careful with comparing experiencing Buddha Nature (being Awake) with losing
> yourself whilst driving your car and listening to the
> radio.MikeSent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
> >
>
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Isolated: The Zo’é Tribe

2013-08-24 Thread larry maher

Sorry Merle. I did get it in another email.
Thank you


On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
>
> this is a beautiful documentary about beautiful people living in harmony
> with each other and their environment... paradise lost where did our
> civilisation go so wrong?. cheers merle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> '
> http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/isolated-zoe-tribe/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Isolated: The Zo’é Tribe

2013-08-25 Thread larry maher

Yes Sir, I started watching it. So far so good, right off the bat I thought
of a South American tribe that came into contact with the 'world' in the
sixties. That doc taught me what our values are mostly based on, as humans
I mean. Another was a book written in the early sixties called 'The Forest
People' that taught me a lot about government or rather how we don't really
need a government--- so long as we all know each other that is.

On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 5:05 AM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>  will you watch it larry, and give me feed back?..merle
>
>
> Sorry Merle. I did get it in another email.
> Thank you
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
>
> **
>
>
>
>
> this is a beautiful documentary about beautiful people living in harmony
> with each other and their environment... paradise lost where did our
> civilisation go so wrong?. cheers merle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> '
> http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/isolated-zoe-tribe/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>
>   
>

-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Isolated: The Zo’é Tribe

2013-08-25 Thread larry maher

I think I might not have said it correctly: I think OUR 'noble' values of
not being promiscuous, dedicating ourselves to ONE women and the mighty
LOVE we write so many poems to, may be just founded in helping to run a
large society better? Maybe not. This is not mine or even a new concept!
Practicality begets philosophy not the other way around as we were taught
in our fine institution. Of course, there is much need for added argument.


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 11:19 PM, Bill!  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Larry,
>
> IMO the basis of all cultural and societal values and mores are
> practicality. I think problems come in when the needs of the population
> changes but the values and mores are too rigid to adjust to meet them.
>
> I don't think any of these are 'noble', but in fact that the judgment of
> 'noble' is itself a cultural or societal value.
>
> ...Bill!
>
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, larry maher  wrote:
> >
> > Very good video Merle. No leaders, equal men and female rights and
> > multi-spouse marriage, men marrying several women or women marrying
> several
> > men (probably as a means of population control). The point is: our great
> > morality connected with sex and exclusivity is just no more than making
> > people another possession. The tribe doc I saw years back became
> > contaminated with modern civilization and within a matter of a few years
> > the men spoke of their, bikes, radios and their wife. One old lady
> > interviewed near the end of the doc said, civilization was nice but she
> > missed the group sex the village engaged in every week or so.
> > Not advocating anything here, just wondering if our 'noble' values are
> > really 'noble' or just practical?
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
> >
> > > **
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > this is a beautiful documentary about beautiful people living in
> harmony
> > > with each other and their environment... paradise lost where did
> our
> > > civilisation go so wrong?. cheers merle
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > '
> > > http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/isolated-zoe-tribe/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Larry Maher*
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] living in the NOW

2013-08-25 Thread larry maher

Again, I meant 'noble' facetiously.


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>   yes larry..i love this tribe...in harmony with themselves and nature and
> living in the NOW...
> yes they too will be contaminated by our disgusting world..a world of
> greed violence and power mongering...
> we have fallen from grace..the garden of eden will it ever recover?...
> thank you for your feedback ..much appreciated...
> what's practical and noble about our views?..merle
>
>
> Very good video Merle. No leaders, equal men and female rights and
> multi-spouse marriage, men marrying several women or women marrying several
> men (probably as a means of population control). The point is: our great
> morality connected with sex and exclusivity  is just no more than making
> people another possession. The tribe doc I saw years back became
> contaminated with modern civilization and within a matter of a few years
> the men spoke of their, bikes, radios and their wife. One old lady
> interviewed near the end of the doc said, civilization was nice but she
> missed the group sex the village engaged in every week or so.
> Not advocating anything here, just wondering if our 'noble' values are
> really 'noble' or just practical?
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
>
> **
>
>
>
>
> this is a beautiful documentary about beautiful people living in harmony
> with each other and their environment... paradise lost where did our
> civilisation go so wrong?. cheers merle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> '
> http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/isolated-zoe-tribe/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Isolated: The Zo’é Tribe

2013-08-26 Thread larry maher

of course I'd agree.


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:29 AM, Bill!  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Larry,
>
> I agree most of what you posted here, but would like to add that most
> people however choose security over freedom.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, larry maher  wrote:
> >
> > 1- Life is suffering.
> > 2- We suffer because we crave (want, desire, whatever)
> >
> > It doesn't matter where you live or whom you live with. We can always
> chose
> > freedom through 'want' reduction. I'm a victim to. No need to remind me.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > bill...butting in..practical for who?...the mob at the top of the food
> > > chain whilst they hold a gun to the herd?
> > > there is the term noble savage... and let us not forget these noble
> > > savages are living in the NOW...the space you so yearn to be ..merle
> > >
> > > Larry,
> > >
> > > IMO the basis of all cultural and societal values and mores are
> > > practicality. I think problems come in when the needs of the population
> > > changes but the values and mores are too rigid to adjust to meet them.
> > >
> > > I don't think any of these are 'noble', but in fact that the judgment
> of
> > > 'noble' is itself a cultural or societal value.
> > >
> > > ...Bill!
> > >
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, larry maher  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Very good video Merle. No leaders, equal men and female rights and
> > > > multi-spouse marriage, men marrying several women or women marrying
> > > several
> > > > men (probably as a means of population control). The point is: our
> great
> > > > morality connected with sex and exclusivity is just no more than
> making
> > > > people another possession. The tribe doc I saw years back became
> > > > contaminated with modern civilization and within a matter of a few
> years
> > > > the men spoke of their, bikes, radios and their wife. One old lady
> > > > interviewed near the end of the doc said, civilization was nice but
> she
> > > > missed the group sex the village engaged in every week or so.
> > > > Not advocating anything here, just wondering if our 'noble' values
> are
> > > > really 'noble' or just practical?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > **
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > this is a beautiful documentary about beautiful people living in
> > > harmony
> > > > > with each other and their environment... paradise lost where
> did
> > > our
> > > > > civilisation go so wrong?. cheers merle
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > '
> > > > > http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/isolated-zoe-tribe/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > *Larry Maher*
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Larry Maher*
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

2013-08-26 Thread larry maher

I hate to quote the master but the Buddha said 'since there is no way to
prove the existence of God or nor disprove, believe whatever makes it
easier for you.'... What good does it do for a rock to call another rock
'hard?'
L


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM,  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Thing is tho, a belief in a deity *is* the norm. And is also 'painting
> legs on a snake' because it just isn't needed. Also, not sure how believing
> in a god is fun. Each to their own, I suppose.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> * From: * Merle Lester ;
> * To: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ;
> * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
> * Sent: * Mon, Aug 26, 2013 8:57:54 AM
>
>
>
>
>  because i can and it's fun!..i do not follow the norm mike..do
> you?..merle
>
>
> Your definition is meaningless though and certainly not in accord with how
> most people define 'God'. The universe works just fine without such a
> belief. Why paint legs on a snake?
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
>
>
>
>  rubbish...you missed the point then .
> the forest is god..the forest and the people are one..
> .god, forest and people are all in harmony..it's called life...
> god is life...
> what the hell did you think god was?...
>  merle..not the old man with a long white beard syndrome?[image: *:))
> laughing] or some other equally absurd notion?[image: *#-o d'oh!]
>
>
> Watched it. Yep, no god.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> * From: * Merle Lester ;
> * To: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ;
> * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
> * Sent: * Sun, Aug 25, 2013 3:46:28 AM
>
>
>
>  mike ..you have missed the boat...( the point)... watch the brazilian
> tribe doc..then tell me "there is no "god"...merle
>
> Merle,
>
> Just because belief in a god gives comfort it doesn't make it true.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> * From: * Merle Lester ;
> * To: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ;
> * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
> * Sent: * Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:23:16 AM
>
>
>
>  mike..explain yourself please..
> and KG not true...on a beautiful spring day one rejoices and gives
> thanks that one has eyes to see and ears to hear and a tongue to
> speak..merle
>
>  And comfort is only sought when dis-eased.
>
> KG
>
> On 8/24/2013 4:19 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
>
>   Merle,
>
> Utility is no measure of Truth.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Isolated: The Zo’é Tribe

2013-08-26 Thread larry maher

Very good video Merle. No leaders, equal men and female rights and
multi-spouse marriage, men marrying several women or women marrying several
men (probably as a means of population control). The point is: our great
morality connected with sex and exclusivity  is just no more than making
people another possession. The tribe doc I saw years back became
contaminated with modern civilization and within a matter of a few years
the men spoke of their, bikes, radios and their wife. One old lady
interviewed near the end of the doc said, civilization was nice but she
missed the group sex the village engaged in every week or so.
Not advocating anything here, just wondering if our 'noble' values are
really 'noble' or just practical?

On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
>
> this is a beautiful documentary about beautiful people living in harmony
> with each other and their environment... paradise lost where did our
> civilisation go so wrong?. cheers merle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> '
> http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/isolated-zoe-tribe/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>

-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

2013-08-26 Thread larry maher

Totally fair to say. How can anyone 'free' his mind if he hangs onto
preconceived ideas?

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:44 PM,  wrote:

> **
>
>
>   Larry,
>
> I think it's fair to say that Buddhism respects the gods people may choose
> to believe in, but it remains a central tenet of Buddhism that liberation
> and freedom are not found thru a belief in a god.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> *From: *larry maher ;
> *To: *;
> *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
> *Sent: *Mon, Aug 26, 2013 11:08:10 PM
>
>
>
> I hate to quote the master but the Buddha said 'since there is no way to
> prove the existence of God or nor disprove, believe whatever makes it
> easier for you.'... What good does it do for a rock to call another rock
> 'hard?'
> L
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM,  wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>>   Thing is tho, a belief in a deity *is* the norm. And is also 'painting
>> legs on a snake' because it just isn't needed. Also, not sure how believing
>> in a god is fun. Each to their own, I suppose.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>>
>>  --
>> *From: *Merle Lester ;
>> *To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ;
>> *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
>> *Sent: *Mon, Aug 26, 2013 8:57:54 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   because i can and it's fun!..i do not follow the norm mike..do
>> you?..merle
>>
>>
>>   Your definition is meaningless though and certainly not in accord with
>> how most people define 'God'. The universe works just fine without such a
>> belief. Why paint legs on a snake?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>>
>>  --
>>
>>
>>
>>   rubbish...you missed the point then .
>> the forest is god..the forest and the people are one..
>> .god, forest and people are all in harmony..it's called life...
>> god is life...
>> what the hell did you think god was?...
>>  merle..not the old man with a long white beard syndrome?[image: *:))
>> laughing] or some other equally absurd notion?[image: *#-o d'oh!]
>>
>>
>>   Watched it. Yep, no god.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>>
>>  --
>> *From: *Merle Lester ;
>> *To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ;
>> *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
>> *Sent: *Sun, Aug 25, 2013 3:46:28 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>   mike ..you have missed the boat...( the point)... watch the brazilian
>> tribe doc..then tell me "there is no "god"...merle
>>
>>   Merle,
>>
>> Just because belief in a god gives comfort it doesn't make it true.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>>
>>  ------
>> *From: *Merle Lester ;
>> *To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ;
>> *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
>> *Sent: *Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:23:16 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>   mike..explain yourself please..
>> and KG not true...on a beautiful spring day one rejoices and gives
>> thanks that one has eyes to see and ears to hear and a tongue to
>> speak..merle
>>
>>  And comfort is only sought when dis-eased.
>>
>> KG
>>
>> On 8/24/2013 4:19 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>
>>
>>   Merle,
>>
>> Utility is no measure of Truth.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] the painted snake

2013-08-26 Thread larry maher

ed life...
> god is life...
> what the hell did you think god was?...
>  merle..not the old man with a long white beard syndrome?[image: *:))
> laughing] or some other equally absurd notion?[image: *#-o d'oh!]
>
>
>   Watched it. Yep, no god.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> *
> *
>
>   mike ..you have missed the boat...( the point)... watch the brazilian
> tribe doc..then tell me "there is no "god"...merle
>
>   Merle,
>
> Just because belief in a god gives comfort it doesn't make it true.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> *From: *Merle Lester ;
> *To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ;
> *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
> *Sent: *Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:23:16 AM
>
>
>
>   mike..explain yourself please..
> and KG not true...on a beautiful spring day one rejoices and gives
> thanks that one has eyes to see and ears to hear and a tongue to
> speak..merle
>
>  And comfort is only sought when dis-eased.
>
> KG
>
> On 8/24/2013 4:19 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
>
>   Merle,
>
> Utility is no measure of Truth.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

2013-08-26 Thread larry maher

Yes, how true. Scientifically, we evoke stress whenever our decision making
processes are in play.

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote:

> **
>
>
> ...
>
> Thinking of future and future problems might create anxiety and stress.
>
> However, that is not when the stress really originates.
>
> Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world
> of past and future.
>
> In moving away from now, you move away from life, you move away from
> vitality, you move away from yourself. Having moved away from now, you
> feel like a fish out of water.
>
> The thought world of human mind is a barren life-less land devoid of
> vitality. In this land, anxiety naturally results. This is the anxiety
> of being away from your natural state. This is the anxiety of being
> away from your home. This anxiety is the anxiety of separateness. This
> is the anxiety of missing life, anxiety of missing vitality, anxiety
> of missing peace.
>
> Only way out is to return home. Return to Grace. Return to Self.
> Return to Now...
>
> ...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iesig91RCxU
>
> ECKHART TOLLE
>
> --
> Thanks and best regards
> J.Suresh
> New No.3, Old No.7,
> Chamiers road - 1st Lane,
> Alwarpet,
> Chennai - 600018
> Ph: 044 42030947
> Mobile: 91 9884071738
> 
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Isolated: The Zoâ€™Ã(c) Tribe

2013-08-26 Thread larry maher

Dictatorship>>>>> or<<<<<<< Chaos. Take your pick.

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:56 AM, Bill!  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Merle,
>
> I mean liberty and security in a society are usually related in an inverse
> proportion. The more liberty you have the less security; and the more
> security you have the less liberty.
>
> In other words the more laws the less liberty but the more security. The
> less laws the more liberty but the less security.
>
> What I said below was that in my experience most people will lean heavily
> towards security over liberty.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Â bill...meaning what?..clarification please..merle
> > Â
> > Larry,
> >
> > I agree most of what you posted here, but would like to add that most
> people however choose security over freedom.
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, larry maher  wrote:
> > >
> > > 1- Life is suffering.
> > > 2- We suffer because we crave (want, desire, whatever)
> > >
> > > It doesn't matter where you live or whom you live with. We can always
> chose
> > > freedom through 'want' reduction. I'm a victim to. No need to remind
> me.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > bill...butting in..practical for who?...the mob at the top of the
> food
> > > > chain whilst they hold a gun to the herd?
> > > > there is the term noble savage... and let us not forget these noble
> > > > savages are living in the NOW...the space you so yearn to be ..merle
> > > >
> > > > Larry,
> > > >
> > > > IMO the basis of all cultural and societal values and mores are
> > > > practicality. I think problems come in when the needs of the
> population
> > > > changes but the values and mores are too rigid to adjust to meet
> them.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think any of these are 'noble', but in fact that the
> judgment of
> > > > 'noble' is itself a cultural or societal value.
> > > >
> > > > ...Bill!
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, larry maher  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Very good video Merle. No leaders, equal men and female rights and
> > > > > multi-spouse marriage, men marrying several women or women marrying
> > > > several
> > > > > men (probably as a means of population control). The point is: our
> great
> > > > > morality connected with sex and exclusivity is just no more than
> making
> > > > > people another possession. The tribe doc I saw years back became
> > > > > contaminated with modern civilization and within a matter of a few
> years
> > > > > the men spoke of their, bikes, radios and their wife. One old lady
> > > > > interviewed near the end of the doc said, civilization was nice
> but she
> > > > > missed the group sex the village engaged in every week or so.
> > > > > Not advocating anything here, just wondering if our 'noble' values
> are
> > > > > really 'noble' or just practical?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Merle Lester  >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > **
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > this is a beautiful documentary about beautiful people living in
> > > > harmony
> > > > > > with each other and their environment... paradise lost where
> did
> > > > our
> > > > > > civilisation go so wrong?. cheers merle
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > '
> > > > > > http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/isolated-zoe-tribe/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > *Larry Maher*
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > *Larry Maher*
> > >
> >
>
> 
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Isolated: The Zoâ€™Ã(c) Tribe

2013-08-27 Thread larry maher

And the law of jungle was in full force I.E. no fat people and few old.

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:18 AM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>   harmony and balance is the key..merle
>
>
>  Dictatorship>>>>> or<<<<<<< Chaos. Take your pick.
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:56 AM, Bill!  wrote:
>
> **
>
>  Merle,
>
> I mean liberty and security in a society are usually related in an inverse
> proportion. The more liberty you have the less security; and the more
> security you have the less liberty.
>
> In other words the more laws the less liberty but the more security. The
> less laws the more liberty but the less security.
>
> What I said below was that in my experience most people will lean heavily
> towards security over liberty.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Â bill...meaning what?..clarification please..merle
> > Â
> > Larry,
> >
> > I agree most of what you posted here, but would like to add that most
> people however choose security over freedom.
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, larry maher  wrote:
> > >
> > > 1- Life is suffering.
> > > 2- We suffer because we crave (want, desire, whatever)
> > >
> > > It doesn't matter where you live or whom you live with. We can always
> chose
> > > freedom through 'want' reduction. I'm a victim to. No need to remind
> me.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > bill...butting in..practical for who?...the mob at the top of the
> food
> > > > chain whilst they hold a gun to the herd?
> > > > there is the term noble savage... and let us not forget these noble
> > > > savages are living in the NOW...the space you so yearn to be ..merle
> > > >
> > > > Larry,
> > > >
> > > > IMO the basis of all cultural and societal values and mores are
> > > > practicality. I think problems come in when the needs of the
> population
> > > > changes but the values and mores are too rigid to adjust to meet
> them.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think any of these are 'noble', but in fact that the
> judgment of
> > > > 'noble' is itself a cultural or societal value.
> > > >
> > > > ...Bill!
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, larry maher  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Very good video Merle. No leaders, equal men and female rights and
> > > > > multi-spouse marriage, men marrying several women or women marrying
> > > > several
> > > > > men (probably as a means of population control). The point is: our
> great
> > > > > morality connected with sex and exclusivity is just no more than
> making
> > > > > people another possession. The tribe doc I saw years back became
> > > > > contaminated with modern civilization and within a matter of a few
> years
> > > > > the men spoke of their, bikes, radios and their wife. One old lady
> > > > > interviewed near the end of the doc said, civilization was nice
> but she
> > > > > missed the group sex the village engaged in every week or so.
> > > > > Not advocating anything here, just wondering if our 'noble' values
> are
> > > > > really 'noble' or just practical?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Merle Lester  >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > **
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > this is a beautiful documentary about beautiful people living in
> > > > harmony
> > > > > > with each other and their environment... paradise lost where
> did
> > > > our
> > > > > > civilisation go so wrong?. cheers merle
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > '
> > > > > > http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/isolated-zoe-tribe/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > *Larry Maher*
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > *Larry Maher*
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

2013-08-27 Thread larry maher

Not saying God is precon-ed or not precon-ed to any human being; but but
but a lot of us are products of our culture, read and accepted beliefs, and
probably some hard-wired DNA. Those combinations lead to ideas, icons,
slogans etc. All those are blockages to God if you truly want to find him.
I know little but I do know one thing spirituality is not what we THINK it
is!

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:16 AM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
>  who said god was a preconceived idea? merle
>
>
> Totally fair to say. How can anyone 'free' his mind if he hangs onto
> preconceived ideas?
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:44 PM,  wrote:
>
> **
>
>Larry,
>
> I think it's fair to say that Buddhism respects the gods people may choose
> to believe in, but it remains a central tenet of Buddhism that liberation
> and freedom are not found thru a belief in a god.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> *From: *larry maher ;
> *To: *;
> *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
> *Sent: *Mon, Aug 26, 2013 11:08:10 PM
>
>
>  I hate to quote the master but the Buddha said 'since there is no way to
> prove the existence of God or nor disprove, believe whatever makes it
> easier for you.'... What good does it do for a rock to call another rock
> 'hard?'
> L
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM,  wrote:
>
> **
>
>Thing is tho, a belief in a deity *is* the norm. And is also 'painting
> legs on a snake' because it just isn't needed. Also, not sure how believing
> in a god is fun. Each to their own, I suppose.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> *From: *Merle Lester ;
> *To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ;
> *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
> *Sent: *Mon, Aug 26, 2013 8:57:54 AM
>
>
>
>   because i can and it's fun!..i do not follow the norm mike..do
> you?..merle
>
>
>   Your definition is meaningless though and certainly not in accord with
> how most people define 'God'. The universe works just fine without such a
> belief. Why paint legs on a snake?
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
>
>
>
>   rubbish...you missed the point then .
> the forest is god..the forest and the people are one..
> .god, forest and people are all in harmony..it's called life...
> god is life...
> what the hell did you think god was?...
>  merle..not the old man with a long white beard syndrome?[image: *:))
> laughing] or some other equally absurd notion?[image: *#-o d'oh!]
>
>
>   Watched it. Yep, no god.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> *From: *Merle Lester ;
> *To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ;
> *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
> *Sent: *Sun, Aug 25, 2013 3:46:28 AM
>
>
>
>   mike ..you have missed the boat...( the point)... watch the brazilian
> tribe doc..then tell me "there is no "god"...merle
>
>   Merle,
>
> Just because belief in a god gives comfort it doesn't make it true.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> *From: *Merle Lester ;
> *To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ;
> *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
> *Sent: *Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:23:16 AM
>
>
>
>   mike..explain yourself please..
> and KG not true...on a beautiful spring day one rejoices and gives
> thanks that one has eyes to see and ears to hear and a tongue to
> speak..merle
>
>  And comfort is only sought when dis-eased.
>
> KG
>
> On 8/24/2013 4:19 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
>
>   Merle,
>
> Utility is no measure of Truth.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

2013-08-27 Thread larry maher

The 'Now' seems to be a three second bit of awareness continually rolling
by us. At least that's what some researchers say. Of course, who knows?


On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Bill!  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Kris,
>
> I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future.
> As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only
> experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey  wrote:
> >
> > On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote:
> > > Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world
> > > of past and future.
> >
> > The "thought world" can only exist "now".
> > Thoughts, arising and passing, now.
> > Thought, is an aspect of now.
> >
> > Another word for what you are describing as "the thought world of past
> > and future" is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a
> > problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise
> > different from "now". In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A
> > useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this,
> > it hinders. "Now".
> >
> > KG
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

2013-08-27 Thread larry maher

Thank you so much for that. Spot on. Unfortunately, can talk this stuff all
day long, but practicing it? living it? In minutes I fall 'victim' to this
world without even knowing it.The best I can do is to remember to remember.


On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Kristopher Grey  wrote:

> **
>
>
> All thoughts, afterthoughts.
> All actions, reactions.
> Seemly that, Seamless this.
>
> The neural lag/disconnect are aspects of 'Maya', the dance or interplay
> (Lila) therewith. In that sense, illusory. Like time.
>
> Nothing escapes Indra's net, nothing caught by it. Only the ever-present
> interweaving of emptiness into suchness.
>
> To parrot-phrase Wei Wu Wei (aka Terence Gray - who Suresh might enjoy
> reading as no doubt Mr. Tolle has): 'Maya' = manifestation.
>
> KG
>
>
> On 8/27/2013 9:41 AM, Bill! wrote:
>
>
>
> Kris,
>
> I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future.
> As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only
> experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey  wrote:
> >
> > On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote:
> > > Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world
> > > of past and future.
> >
> > The "thought world" can only exist "now".
> > Thoughts, arising and passing, now.
> > Thought, is an aspect of now.
> >
> > Another word for what you are describing as "the thought world of past
> > and future" is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a
> > problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise
> > different from "now". In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A
> > useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this,
> > it hinders. "Now".
> >
> > KG
> >
>
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

2013-08-27 Thread larry maher

Really good stuff, thanks. I used 'victim' as a sort of a what? joke? quick
word? Anyway you sound really really adept in this shit. envy you? You must
lead a very happy, fulfilling life? Unfortunately for me I was born as far
away being an avatar as one motherf'' er can get. Brooklyn street kid and
all. But my kids did better. One an emergency doc, one's almost out of
surgery school and sadly, one turned out more like me. But he's found a
good girl that's kicking his ass into shape just as my wifey did to me:)
Thanks again,
Larry
PS: If you ever feel the need for some long term suffering my wife's got a
single sister :-)


On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Kristopher Grey  wrote:

> **
>
>
> "Falling 'victim' to this world" may apear to be a trap, or a frenzied
> game of in and out like 'Whack-aMole', or some twisted Fun House mirror
> maze - but how else can this appear? ;)
>
> Seeking to escape such appearances, to seek to only have personally
> preferable experiences, is what Siddhartha Gotama called "desire". Folks
> here have read enough on where that leads.
>
> Worldly preferences for vanilla vs. chocolate, or black robes vs. yellow,
> or boys vs. girls - are of no concern as temporal enjoyments experienced as
> they present -they are aspects of the persona (mask) - unless there is
> attachment - by which I mean you experience some love/hate toward them.
> Same goes for pain/pleasure. These all arise naturally. It's what else
> comes up in response that seems problematic - but only this can offers us
> insight into our presumed and self-generated predicament.
>
> Grasping and rejecting what presents, which along with/and reinforcing
> ignorance of our true nature, form 'The Three Poisons'. Thus many who are
> attached to developing better/higher/more spiritual selves, to any personal
> attainment, seal their fate as surely as the most profane 'sinner'.
>
> That is not to say don't do 'spiritually' oriented things, but rather not
> to be beguiled by them. Spirit is expression, not collection.
> Holy/Spiritual Ego is the most deceptive of all its disguises, and is
> always passing the plate asking for more (devotion, practice, mindfulness,
> whatever).
>
> The best you can do is remember? This is not mindfulness. Memory is a
> habit. Attachment to/dreams of reviving the dead. Pure delusion.
>
> Forgetting is little better. Rejection of same empty baggage (3 Poisons -
> again).
>
> Simply laugh, or cry.
>
> KG
>
> PS - Buddha said Karma is intention. I'd add that Suffering is
> expectation. Two sides of same worthless coin. Whatever troubles you -
> simplify your inquiry by first looking into your intentions and
> expectations. They're the Yin/Yang of self-delusion. Nothing against using
> the imagination for planning and reflection - but things get sticky all too
> easily as soon as we begin to believe any of it.
>
> Non-attachment, is not detachment. It is the cessation (effortlessly - by
> realization, not effort) of the delusional cycle of attachment and
> rejection. Only this allows direct engagement - and vice versa.
>
> Rambling again, more words only makes a mess. Edit the above to just the
> first two lines of the PS - as that contains the rest.
>
>
>
> On 8/27/2013 4:37 PM, larry maher wrote:
>
>
> Thank you so much for that. Spot on. Unfortunately, can talk this stuff
> all day long, but practicing it? living it? In minutes I fall 'victim' to
> this world without even knowing it.The best I can do is to remember to
> remember.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Kristopher Grey  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>  All thoughts, afterthoughts.
>> All actions, reactions.
>> Seemly that, Seamless this.
>>
>> The neural lag/disconnect are aspects of 'Maya', the dance or interplay
>> (Lila) therewith. In that sense, illusory. Like time.
>>
>> Nothing escapes Indra's net, nothing caught by it. Only the ever-present
>> interweaving of emptiness into suchness.
>>
>> To parrot-phrase Wei Wu Wei (aka Terence Gray - who Suresh might enjoy
>> reading as no doubt Mr. Tolle has): 'Maya' = manifestation.
>>
>> KG
>>
>>
>> On 8/27/2013 9:41 AM, Bill! wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Kris,
>>
>> I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future.
>> As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only
>> experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought.
>>
>> ...Bill!
>>
>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey  wrote:

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

2013-08-27 Thread larry maher

Why read, interpret, and re-dictate this stuff if it's not making you
happy? Or would you rather be an erudite simply content with winning every
argument or, in this case, creating one where one isn't Jesus
Christ! Or is it Buddha! Or Vishnu? Lighten up dude, all victories are
Pyrrhic.

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

2013-08-27 Thread larry maher

Good stuff


On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 11:35 PM,  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Bill!,
>
> There's nothing wrong with maps as long as they're not taken to be the
> 'real' destination. Same as time (clocks) and spiritual paths (although, of
> course, there is a danger in believing that a spiritual path leads to a
> "destination"). These are good examples of Buddha's teaching that there are
> 2 truths - relative truth and absolute truth. As long as the relative is
> not taken as the ultimate, and vice-versa, then the ultimate truth will not
> be obscured.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> * From: * Bill! ;
> * To: * ;
> * Subject: * Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
> * Sent: * Wed, Aug 28, 2013 2:10:16 AM
>
>
>
> Kris,
>
> I'm not drawing any maps. I'm just saying we are always HERE.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey  wrote:
> >
> > What 'now'? Beyond its use as a conceptual dead end - no such thing can
> > be found.
> >
> > There is only experiencing. Experiences and experiencers, just aspects
> > of this. To call this eternally ever-presently unfolding experiencing
> > 'the now' is preposterous. But then so is any way of saying this. ;)
> >
> > Like I just said to Larry: We are lost in drawing our own maps...
> >
> > KG
> >
> > On 8/27/2013 9:18 PM, Bill! wrote:
> > >
> > > Andrew,
> > >
> > > What this statement means to me is the the PERCEPTION (thoughts about)
> > > 'now' (experience) might have the shelf-life of 3 seconds, but
> > > perceptions are not experience.
> > >
> > > All thoughts, IMO, are either memories (past) or projections (future),
> > > both of which are delusions. Only experience is now.
> > >
> > > ...Bill!
> > >
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
>
> > > larry maher  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The 'Now' seems to be a three second bit of awareness continually
> > > rolling
> > > > by us. At least that's what some researchers say. Of course, who
> knows?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Bill!  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > **
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kris,
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and
> > > future.
> > > > > As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There
> > > is only
> > > > > experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought.
> > > > >
> > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Kristopher Grey  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote:
> > > > > > > Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the
> > > thought world
> > > > > > > of past and future.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The "thought world" can only exist "now".
> > > > > > Thoughts, arising and passing, now.
> > > > > > Thought, is an aspect of now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another word for what you are describing as "the thought world
> > > of past
> > > > > > and future" is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a
> > > > > > problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise
> > > > > > different from "now". In an of itself, such thinking is just
> > > thinking. A
> > > > > > useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by
> > > this,
> > > > > > it hinders. "Now".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > KG
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > *Larry Maher*
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Body awareness strengthens the immune system

2013-08-30 Thread larry maher

I used to love ole Eckhart. Now? Eh?


On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 10:51 AM, 覺妙精明 （JMJM）  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Chan meditation does it a step further. Instead of just focus on the
> inner body, Chan meditation ask the practitioner to focus on ten major
> chakras, acupressure points, to enhance the chi flow as well as
> rejuvenate the hormonal organs.
>
> JM
> http://www.heart-to-heart-teaching.org
>
> On 8/27/2013 10:55 PM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote:
> > FEELING THE INNER BODY
> >
> > Although body identification is one of the most basic forms of ego,
> > the good news is that it is also the one that you can most easily go
> > beyond.
> >
> > This is done not by trying to convince yourself that you are not your
> > body, but by shifting your attention from the external form of your
> > body and from thoughts about your body - beautiful, ugly, strong,
> > weak, too fat, too thin - to the feeling of aliveness inside it.
> >
> > No matter what your body's appearance is on the outer level, beyond
> > the outer form it is an intensely alive energy field.
> >
> > If you are not familiar with "inner body" awareness, close your eyes
> > for a moment and find out if there is life inside your hands.
> >
> > Don't ask your mind. It will say, " I can't feel anything." Probably
> > it will also say, "Give me something more interesting to think about."
> >
> > So instead of asking your mind, go to the hands directly.
> >
> > By this I mean become aware of the subtle feeling of aliveness inside
> > them. It is there. You just have to go there with your attention to
> > notice it.
> >
> > you may get a slight tingling sensation at first, then a feeling of
> > energy or aliveness.
> >
> > If you hold your attention in your hands for a while, the sense of
> > aliveness will intensify.
> >
> > Some people won't even have to close their eyes. They will be able to
> > feel their "inner hands" at the same times as they read this.
> >
> > Then go to your feet, keep your attention there for a minute or so,
> > and begin to feel your hands and feet at the same time.
> >
> > Then incorporate other parts of the body - legs, arms, abdomen, chest,
> > and so on -
> > into that feeling until you are aware of the inner body as a global
> > sense of aliveness.
> >
> >
> > What I call the "inner body" isn't really the body anymore but life
> > energy, the bridge between form and formlessness.
> >
> > Make it a habit to feel the inner body as often as you can.
> >
> > After a while, you won't need to close your eyes anymore to feel it.
> >
> > For example, see if you can feel the inner body whenever you listen to
> someone.
> >
> > It almost seems like a paradox: When you are in touch with the inner
> > body, you are not identified with your body anymore, nor are you
> > identified with your mind.
> >
> > This is to say, you are no longer identified with form but moving away
> > from form identification toward formlessness, which we may also call
> > Being.
> >
> > It is your essence identity.
> >
> > Body awareness not only anchors you in the present moment, it is a
> > doorway out of the prison that is the ego.
> >
> > It also strengthens the immune system and the body's ability to heal
> itself.
> >
> > ECKHART TOLLE
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Compassion Research

2013-09-05 Thread larry maher

screw you (just kidding)


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 8:37 PM,  wrote:

> **
>
>
> I am a post-grad (clinical psychology) student researching the
> relationship between a Buddhist concept of self-compassion and mood states.
> Please help me by taking 8 minutes or so to fill in my survey. Kind regards.
>
>
>
> (survey is anonymous and voluntary)
>
>
>
> Survey link: https://www.psychdata.com/s.asp?SID=154915
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Compassion Research

2013-09-05 Thread larry maher

Oh Bill it was a joke AND if I knew it was from you I would have gladly
filled it out. BUT what do they think we have that everyone else doesn't?
"They" just believe and act on their emotions and 'We"  just observe our
emotions (mostly) and try not to act on the destructive ones!


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Bill!  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Larry,
>
> The survey, like your post below, is voluntary; but the survey, unlike
> your post, is anonymous.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, larry maher  wrote:
> >
> > screw you (just kidding)
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 8:37 PM,  wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > I am a post-grad (clinical psychology) student researching the
> > > relationship between a Buddhist concept of self-compassion and mood
> states.
> > > Please help me by taking 8 minutes or so to fill in my survey. Kind
> regards.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > (survey is anonymous and voluntary)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Survey link: https://www.psychdata.com/s.asp?SID=154915
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Larry Maher*
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Illusions

2013-09-13 Thread larry maher

And humans are self-aware and capable of pondering all things good and bad.


On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>   mike..what are you attempting to say?...humans are unique..as
> what?...destroying the planet...?..merle
>
> Merle,
>
> It is a basic tenet in Buddhism that all sentient beings have Buddha
> Nature, but humans are in a unique position to follow a path to realise it
> (not withstanding all the waffle about 'there is no path' yadayada). As for
> vegetables, they make a good addition to any Sunday roast.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
>
>  --
> * From: * Merle Lester ;
> * To: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ;
> * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Illusions
> * Sent: * Thu, Sep 12, 2013 9:55:30 PM
>
>
> bill..i see..very human type of understanding. what about animals and
> vegetation... have they true essence too?..merle
>
>
> Merle,
>
> I believe in zen (and Buddhist) terminology "Buddha Nature" is the same as
> "true essence" in the subject graphic.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Â so what is true essence?...merle
> >
> >
> > Â
> > I agree with this the way I interpret it ... But I say it a lot more
> clearly in my book...
> >
> >
> > Edgar
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sep 11, 2013, at 12:28 AM, Bill! wrote:
> >
> > Â
> > >Here's a nice one posted especially for Edgar for two reasons:
> > >
> > >
> > >1. Â to see if he's still around
> > >2. Â to get his comment.
> > >
> > >
> > >I generally like the message, but could do without everything after
> "He's saying..." up to the last sentence. Â I like the last sentence.
> > >
> > >
> > >...Bill!Â
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Illusions

2013-09-14 Thread larry maher

Why. Is our worst enemy but it is also the only reason culture and
conditions advance.


On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 3:49 AM, Bill!  wrote:

> **
>
>
> KG,
>
> That's why I said "seems to be". I have know way of really knowing. In
> fact I do think some animals share some of our intellectual
> characteristics. And maybe in that respect also share some of our delusions.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey  wrote:
> >
> > Key words there Bill!: "... seem to be..."
> >
> > Ordinary mind, such a seemly business. Always becoming (appearing as)
> > this or that to itself, for itself, of itself. Ordinary mind
> > distinguishes itself by caring for such distinctions, and thus becoming
> > self-deluded by continually grasping and rejecting them.
> >
> > KG
> >
> >
> > On 9/14/2013 1:14 AM, Bill! wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > I think you could also say that humans are the only beings that
> > > actually need to make an effort to become "self-realised by following
> > > the Dharma". All other sentient beings of which I know seem to be
> > > already doing that.
> > >
> > > ...Bill!
> > >
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, uerusuboyo@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Merle,I'm not "attempting" to say anything. I wrote it in
> > > black and white and clearly: humans are in a unique position to become
> > > self-realised by following the Dharma (law of reality). You added the
> > > destructive bit.MikeSent from Yahoo! Mail for
> > > iPad
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Illusions

2013-09-17 Thread larry maher

Yeah guys, if I'm One with everything how come I still feel lonely sitting
home with all my things? Oh, and that guy that just killed 14 peeps at the
USA's Navy yard was a Buddhist. Don't mess with Buddhists, baby.
Have a wonderful,
L


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 8:17 AM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
> bill..i do not feel separate..i know we are all one...i try to keep my
> mind free..merle
>
>
>
>  bill...rubbish..i know i am one with all..no problem..merle
>
>
> Merle,
>
> The most basic and most problematic intellectual characteristic is the
> delusion of duality. That's basically believing there is a 'you' that is
> separate and distinct from 'everything else'. IMO everything else follows
> from there such as logic, reason, judgment, categorization, time, etc...
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester  wrote:
> >
> > Â bill...which intellectual characteristics?..merle
> >
> >
> > Â
> > KG,
> >
> > That's why I said "seems to be". I have know way of really knowing. In
> fact I do think some animals share some of our intellectual
> characteristics. And maybe in that respect also share some of our delusions.
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey  wrote:
> > >
> > > Key words there Bill!: "... seem to be..."
> > >
> > > Ordinary mind, such a seemly business. Always becoming (appearing as)
> > > this or that to itself, for itself, of itself. Ordinary mind
> > > distinguishes itself by caring for such distinctions, and thus
> becoming
> > > self-deluded by continually grasping and rejecting them.
> > >
> > > KG
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/14/2013 1:14 AM, Bill! wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike,
> > > >
> > > > I think you could also say that humans are the only beings that
> > > > actually need to make an effort to become "self-realised by
> following
> > > > the Dharma". All other sentient beings of which I know seem to be
> > > > already doing that.
> > > >
> > > > ...Bill!
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, uerusuboyo@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Merle,I'm not "attempting" to say anything. I wrote it
> in
> > > > black and white and clearly: humans are in a unique position to
> become
> > > > self-realised by following the Dharma (law of reality). You added
> the
> > > > destructive bit.MikeSent from Yahoo! Mail
> for
> > > > iPad
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Is There Anybody Out There?

2013-09-25 Thread larry maher

I think you might be wasting your time. Nobody lives here no more. Not sure
y?


On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:58 AM,  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Whoever reads this post please REPLY.
>
>
> I'm requesting this as a test of the new Yahoo! Group format.
>
> Thanks...Bill!
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] Is There Anybody Out There?

2013-09-26 Thread larry maher

If someone is still listening; then please enliven this thing. I don't mean
to sound like a smart-ass but do we want an intellectual fight over what
'advanced' meaning or way of thinking is best. That's already all over the
internet. How about some friendly, personal stuff? Merle, ain't you a 40
year meditating Aussie? I'd love to here more from ya. I'm living in a four
bedroom, 2/12 bath wilderness 70 miles above NYC.
The Buddha to you
Larry

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 3:55 AM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>  PRESENT...merle
>
> here
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:07 PM, larry maher  wrote:
>
> **
>
>  I think you might be wasting your time. Nobody lives here no more. Not
> sure y?
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:58 AM,  wrote:
>
> **
>
>  Whoever reads this post please REPLY.
>
> I'm requesting this as a test of the new Yahoo! Group format.
>
> Thanks...Bill!
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>
>
>
>   
>

-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] on a clear day

2013-09-26 Thread larry maher

Hi Merle nice to hear from you. No, I'm afraid no garden of Eden here. My
little house has 4 bedrooms and 2 and 1/2 baths which is pretty much the
standard bill of fair round here in this little bedroom community. B/R
community means most have to commute to NYC to work for any real money. I
moved here from the city (NYC) 28 yrs ago, leaving behind the crime and
horrible schools so my kids would have a shot at a better life. I guess it
worked out for them. They all did pretty good except for my youngest that
drove us nuts with booze and drugs for a few years. But he's cleaned up his
act now and he gave us the most unbelievable beautiful grandson that I live
and breathe to be around. He's seven now (but said he stills feels like
six). Love him to death. I've been seriously meditating everyday for five
years. I've had heart trouble on and off for 25 years making my work and
income sort of sporadic. But we have survived. For the past six months I
have been seriously looking at diet and fasting. Read lots of good stuff on
the subject.
Hope that's not too long or boring. I don't know anyone that doesn't love
Australia. One of my uncles lived there after WWII and he still regrets
leaving your fair continent lands East.
All the best,
hope to hear from you,
Larry

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Merle Lester wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>  hi larry..
>
> wonderbah. never visited NYC...
>
> vot do ya do  there in that amazing wilderness?..
>
> 2/12 bath...what does this mean in terms of buddha?...
>
> very much cleaning?...
>
> who keeps  house super bug free and spotless?...
>
>  live 70ks from sydney in what i call my zen garden of 4 acres...
>
> on a mountain top...
>
> on a clear day one see sydney skyline...
> moon rising
>  sun rising...
> it is here...
> beauty abounds
>  birds sing
>  cloud formations dance..
>
> a dry spring with much fear of father fire
>
>  over and out..
> your call
>  merle
>
>
> If someone is still listening; then please enliven this thing. I don't
> mean to sound like a smart-ass but do we want an intellectual fight over
> what 'advanced' meaning or way of thinking is best. That's already all over
> the internet. How about some friendly, personal stuff? Merle, ain't you a
> 40 year meditating Aussie? I'd love to here more from ya. I'm living in a
> four bedroom, 2/12 bath wilderness 70 miles above NYC.
> The Buddha to you
> Larry
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 3:55 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
>
> **
>
>
>  PRESENT...merle
>
> here
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:07 PM, larry maher  wrote:
>
> **
>
>  I think you might be wasting your time. Nobody lives here no more. Not
> sure y?
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:58 AM,  wrote:
>
> **
>
>  Whoever reads this post please REPLY.
>
> I'm requesting this as a test of the new Yahoo! Group format.
>
> Thanks...Bill!
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Larry Maher*
>
>
>   
>

-- 
*Larry Maher*

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