Re: [Zen] G
mike ..how are you going to prove there are no leprechauns?..by magic?..merle Merle, Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's up to those who make an assertion of fact (that there is a personal, creator god) who have to prove it. It's impossible to prove a negative. For example, I also can't prove there are no leprechauns. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: [Zen] G Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 3:37:45 AM g... and you are no wiser saying it's not true..merle Merle, A belief in a god could well be beneficial and even advantageous for evolutionary survival, but that still doesn't make it true. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:21:50 AM ok..that's fine..however according to some experts some of us are hard wired to believe in god.. i maybe one of those..so what choice does one have..and god is god is god.. merle Merle, Which god? The Christian one? Zeus? Allah? Krishna? Odin? Even if you pinpoint which god (The Big Daddy Creator) there is absolutely no evidence to believe in him or even make him necessary. I see, feel, smell, taste and hear reality. Take away the I and what more do you need? Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:31:19 AM mike..god??? why doubts?..merle Merle, i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the other? being an example :yes... and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best Asked and answered!! Mike Ps there are more poets and philosophers in the fox-holes than you would imagine. I've seen death while serving and it ain't pretty. This is partly what spurs me to practice so that when my time comes I will handle it with peace and compassion. I don't think I'd get this from a belief in a god because there would be too many doubts. Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:33:57 AM hi mike.. great to hear from you..you are an excellent teacher... do you teach?..so patient kind and caring and enthusiastic.. i appreciate this very much..and you have awareness and great insight.. i can't believe you are a military person..have you actually ever killed any one... or is that a stupid question? yes i know the prayer and i know the power of one... you are so so right..i am very christian ...i began going to a christian church when i was 7 because i wanted to...i did bible classes by correspondence (as well unknown to my parents)..i won prizes for bible study..i love the teachings of christ..i love the story of christ.. i will say that christ to would ask you to experience for yourself... in many respects all religions are very similar..they get f 'over by those in the power seat and people get manipulated... if we all followed the teachings of christ the world would be a good place.. there is enough suffering being alive and human without the wretched behaviour of humans... so this is the stuff i cannot understand..i sit here and can see the suffering that humans create because they are not aware... selfish and greedy with reptilian brains... how the hell can i change this... i am aware... i try to follow the 10 golden rules.. and am totally dumbfounded and always have been by folk who pay no heed to the 10 golden rules... you say see reality as it is..and as i see it it is so so need of repair..for us to make a paradise on earth we all need to breathe the breath.easier said than done... what do we do with those folk who will not listen, and never learn.. those who are causing chaos and devastation to others?... in my time i have been crucified in a way for sticking to what i believe to be the truth... however i'm not planning to be walk over hot coals anytime soon so to speak... i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the other? being an example :yes... and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best thank you for the time you have taken out to write your thoughts to me... yes you are a breath of fresh air in the forum and i appreciate your posts always! take care merle Hi! Exactly, it is simple! (yet so difficult to put into practice). We have to workout our own liberation from suffering before we can truly
Re: [Zen] G
Merle,br/br/Please read my previous response about leprechauns s-l-o-w-l-y and carefully. br/br/Mike br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] G
mike...sorry...i was bitten by something very close to my left eye on sunday night whilst sleeping...and it is swollen and very very itchy..so i did read in haste..please accept my apology..merle Merle, Please read my previous response about leprechauns s-l-o-w-l-y and carefully. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] G Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 7:57:00 AM mike ..how are you going to prove there are no leprechauns?..by magic?..merle Merle, Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's up to those who make an assertion of fact (that there is a personal, creator god) who have to prove it. It's impossible to prove a negative. For example, I also can't prove there are no leprechauns. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: [Zen] G Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 3:37:45 AM g... and you are no wiser saying it's not true..merle Merle, A belief in a god could well be beneficial and even advantageous for evolutionary survival, but that still doesn't make it true. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:21:50 AM ok..that's fine..however according to some experts some of us are hard wired to believe in god.. i maybe one of those..so what choice does one have..and god is god is god.. merle Merle, Which god? The Christian one? Zeus? Allah? Krishna? Odin? Even if you pinpoint which god (The Big Daddy Creator) there is absolutely no evidence to believe in him or even make him necessary. I see, feel, smell, taste and hear reality. Take away the I and what more do you need? Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:31:19 AM mike..god??? why doubts?..merle Merle, i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the other? being an example :yes... and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best Asked and answered!! Mike Ps there are more poets and philosophers in the fox-holes than you would imagine. I've seen death while serving and it ain't pretty. This is partly what spurs me to practice so that when my time comes I will handle it with peace and compassion. I don't think I'd get this from a belief in a god because there would be too many doubts. Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:33:57 AM hi mike.. great to hear from you..you are an excellent teacher... do you teach?..so patient kind and caring and enthusiastic.. i appreciate this very much..and you have awareness and great insight.. i can't believe you are a military person..have you actually ever killed any one... or is that a stupid question? yes i know the prayer and i know the power of one... you are so so right..i am very christian ...i began going to a christian church when i was 7 because i wanted to...i did bible classes by correspondence (as well unknown to my parents)..i won prizes for bible study..i love the teachings of christ..i love the story of christ.. i will say that christ to would ask you to experience for yourself... in many respects all religions are very similar..they get f 'over by those in the power seat and people get manipulated... if we all followed the teachings of christ the world would be a good place.. there is enough suffering being alive and human without the wretched behaviour of humans... so this is the stuff i cannot understand..i sit here and can see the suffering that humans create because they are not aware... selfish and greedy with reptilian brains... how the hell can i change this... i am aware... i try to follow the 10 golden rules.. and am totally dumbfounded and always have been by folk who pay no heed to the 10 golden rules... you say see reality as it is..and as i see it it is so so need of repair..for us to make a paradise on earth we all need to breathe the breath.easier said than done... what do we do with those folk who will not listen, and never learn.. those who are causing chaos and devastation to others?... in my time i have been crucified in a way for sticking to what i believe to be the truth... however i'm not planning to be walk
Re: [Zen] G
Merle,br/br/No problem : ) Hope your eye gets better soon.br/br/But getting back to the original point - Maybe I'm no wiser for not having a belief in a god, but I'm closer to getting there by having that little less bit of baggage (belief) to shed.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] G
Merle, Feller is saying that it c'ain't be done. --Joe -- Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote: mike ..how are you going to prove there are no leprechauns?..by magic? Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] G
mike...getting where?..is there somewhere to go?...merle Merle, No problem : ) Hope your eye gets better soon. But getting back to the original point - Maybe I'm no wiser for not having a belief in a god, but I'm closer to getting there by having that little less bit of baggage (belief) to shed. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] G Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 11:44:15 AM mike...sorry...i was bitten by something very close to my left eye on sunday night whilst sleeping...and it is swollen and very very itchy..so i did read in haste..please accept my apology..merle Merle, Please read my previous response about leprechauns s-l-o-w-l-y and carefully. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] G Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 7:57:00 AM mike ..how are you going to prove there are no leprechauns?..by magic?..merle Merle, Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's up to those who make an assertion of fact (that there is a personal, creator god) who have to prove it. It's impossible to prove a negative. For example, I also can't prove there are no leprechauns. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: [Zen] G Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 3:37:45 AM g... and you are no wiser saying it's not true..merle Merle, A belief in a god could well be beneficial and even advantageous for evolutionary survival, but that still doesn't make it true. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:21:50 AM ok..that's fine..however according to some experts some of us are hard wired to believe in god.. i maybe one of those..so what choice does one have..and god is god is god.. merle Merle, Which god? The Christian one? Zeus? Allah? Krishna? Odin? Even if you pinpoint which god (The Big Daddy Creator) there is absolutely no evidence to believe in him or even make him necessary. I see, feel, smell, taste and hear reality. Take away the I and what more do you need? Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:31:19 AM mike..god??? why doubts?..merle Merle, i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the other? being an example :yes... and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best Asked and answered!! Mike Ps there are more poets and philosophers in the fox-holes than you would imagine. I've seen death while serving and it ain't pretty. This is partly what spurs me to practice so that when my time comes I will handle it with peace and compassion. I don't think I'd get this from a belief in a god because there would be too many doubts. Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:33:57 AM hi mike.. great to hear from you..you are an excellent teacher... do you teach?..so patient kind and caring and enthusiastic.. i appreciate this very much..and you have awareness and great insight.. i can't believe you are a military person..have you actually ever killed any one... or is that a stupid question? yes i know the prayer and i know the power of one... you are so so right..i am very christian ...i began going to a christian church when i was 7 because i wanted to...i did bible classes by correspondence (as well unknown to my parents)..i won prizes for bible study..i love the teachings of christ..i love the story of christ.. i will say that christ to would ask you to experience for yourself... in many respects all religions are very similar..they get f 'over by those in the power seat and people get manipulated... if we all followed the teachings of christ the world would be a good place.. there is enough suffering being alive and human without the wretched behaviour of humans... so this is the stuff i cannot understand..i sit here and can see the suffering that humans create because they are not aware... selfish and greedy with reptilian brains... how the hell can i change this... i am aware... i try to follow
Re: [Zen] G
Merle,br/br/Usually I would say so, too. But unfortunately not all are born with wisdom or ever discover it.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
[Zen] G
irrelevant..whether you believe in g or not you don't know because it is not a fact to figure out and never will be...merle Bill, Get your Gods straight. It was Helios or Apollo, depending on the culture, who drove the chariot of the sun across the sky, not Mercury... Jeez, no wonder you can't understand Zen! :-) Edgar On Jun 9, 2013, at 6:56 AM, Bill! wrote: Merle, Saying some of us are hard wired to believe in god might be true, but I think it would be better stated that 'we all as humans are wired insufficiently to understand everything we perceive' (with the possible exception of Edgar). IMO what we tend to do is make up explanations for things we can't understand. A good example is 'god'. He/She is a handy explanation for all things mysterious and explainable. These explanations usually take on the forms we know, like the early Greeks trying to explain the rising, transverse of the sky and setting of the sun every day by creating the explanation of a god named Mercury who drove his golden chariot across the sky. We want to 'understand' why there seems to be 'good' and 'bad', and very ardently want to learn how we can avoid 'bad' things, how we can control our lives. Believe in a god is a good way to approach this and a very comforting belief. Religions invent gods to explain these things. Science uses logic and makes promises that these things now not understood CAN be understood, and will be some day. Zen accepts that there are things that are just unknowable, things we as humans just cannot understand. I say we cannot understand everything because our understanding is limited to the logic and rationality our intellect provides us. I believe we must accept this and not REJECT our intellect but realize it has its limits and use if accordingly. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:  ok..that's fine..however according to some experts some of us are hard wired to believe in god.. i maybe one of those..so what choice does one have..and god is god is god.. merle  Merle, Which god? The Christian one? Zeus? Allah? Krishna? Odin? Even if you pinpoint which god (The Big Daddy Creator) there is absolutely no evidence to believe in him or even make him necessary. I see, feel, smell, taste and hear reality. Take away the I and what more do you need? Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiitpom@...; To: uerusuboyo@... uerusuboyo@...; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:31:19 AM  mike..god??? why doubts?..merle Merle, i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the other? being an example :yes... and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best Asked and answered!! Mike Ps there are more poets and philosophers in the fox-holes than you would imagine. I've seen death while serving and it ain't pretty. This is partly what spurs me to practice so that when my time comes I will handle it with peace and compassion. I don't think I'd get this from a belief in a god because there would be too many doubts. Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiitpom@...; To: uerusuboyo@... uerusuboyo@...; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:33:57 AM  hi mike.. great to hear from you..you are an excellent teacher... do you teach?..so patient kind and caring and enthusiastic..  i appreciate this very much..and you have awareness and great insight.. i can't believe you are a military person..have you actually ever killed any one...  or is that a stupid question? yes i know the prayer and i know the power of one... you are so so right..i am very christian ...i began going to a christian church when i was 7 because i wanted to...i did bible classes by correspondence  (as well unknown to my parents)..i won prizes for bible study..i love the teachings of christ..i love the story of christ..  i will say that christ to would ask you to experience  for yourself... in many respects all religions are very similar..they get f 'over by those in the power seat and people get manipulated... if we all followed the teachings of christ the world would be a good place.. there is enough suffering being alive and human without the wretched behaviour of humans... so this is the stuff i cannot understand..i sit here and can see the suffering that humans create because they are not aware... selfish and greedy with reptilian brains... how the hell can i change this... i am aware... i try to follow the 10 golden rules.. and am totally dumbfounded and always have been by folk who pay no heed to the 10 golden rules... you say see reality as it is..and as i see it it is so so need of
[Zen] G
g ain't logic... so what?...merle Merle, Saying some of us are hard wired to believe in god might be true, but I think it would be better stated that 'we all as humans are wired insufficiently to understand everything we perceive' (with the possible exception of Edgar). IMO what we tend to do is make up explanations for things we can't understand. A good example is 'god'. He/She is a handy explanation for all things mysterious and explainable. These explanations usually take on the forms we know, like the early Greeks trying to explain the rising, transverse of the sky and setting of the sun every day by creating the explanation of a god named Mercury who drove his golden chariot across the sky. We want to 'understand' why there seems to be 'good' and 'bad', and very ardently want to learn how we can avoid 'bad' things, how we can control our lives. Believe in a god is a good way to approach this and a very comforting belief. Religions invent gods to explain these things. Science uses logic and makes promises that these things now not understood CAN be understood, and will be some day. Zen accepts that there are things that are just unknowable, things we as humans just cannot understand. I say we cannot understand everything because our understanding is limited to the logic and rationality our intellect provides us. I believe we must accept this and not REJECT our intellect but realize it has its limits and use if accordingly. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:  ok..that's fine..however according to some experts some of us are hard wired to believe in god.. i maybe one of those..so what choice does one have..and god is god is god.. merle  Merle, Which god? The Christian one? Zeus? Allah? Krishna? Odin? Even if you pinpoint which god (The Big Daddy Creator) there is absolutely no evidence to believe in him or even make him necessary. I see, feel, smell, taste and hear reality. Take away the I and what more do you need? Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiitpom@...; To: uerusuboyo@... uerusuboyo@...; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:31:19 AM  mike..god??? why doubts?..merle Merle, i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the other? being an example :yes... and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best Asked and answered!! Mike Ps there are more poets and philosophers in the fox-holes than you would imagine. I've seen death while serving and it ain't pretty. This is partly what spurs me to practice so that when my time comes I will handle it with peace and compassion. I don't think I'd get this from a belief in a god because there would be too many doubts. Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiitpom@...; To: uerusuboyo@... uerusuboyo@...; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:33:57 AM  hi mike.. great to hear from you..you are an excellent teacher... do you teach?..so patient kind and caring and enthusiastic..  i appreciate this very much..and you have awareness and great insight.. i can't believe you are a military person..have you actually ever killed any one...  or is that a stupid question? yes i know the prayer and i know the power of one... you are so so right..i am very christian ...i began going to a christian church when i was 7 because i wanted to...i did bible classes by correspondence  (as well unknown to my parents)..i won prizes for bible study..i love the teachings of christ..i love the story of christ..  i will say that christ to would ask you to experience  for yourself... in many respects all religions are very similar..they get f 'over by those in the power seat and people get manipulated... if we all followed the teachings of christ the world would be a good place.. there is enough suffering being alive and human without the wretched behaviour of humans... so this is the stuff i cannot understand..i sit here and can see the suffering that humans create because they are not aware... selfish and greedy with reptilian brains... how the hell can i change this... i am aware... i try to follow the 10 golden rules.. and am totally dumbfounded and always have been by folk who pay no heed to the 10 golden rules... you say see reality as it is..and as i see it it is so so need of repair..for us to make a paradise on earth we all need to breathe the breath.easier said than done... what do we do with those folk who will not listen, and never learn.. those who are causing chaos and devastation to others?... in my time i have  been crucified in a way for sticking to what i believe to be the truth...Â
[Zen] G
g... and you are no wiser saying it's not true..merle Merle, A belief in a god could well be beneficial and even advantageous for evolutionary survival, but that still doesn't make it true. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:21:50 AM ok..that's fine..however according to some experts some of us are hard wired to believe in god.. i maybe one of those..so what choice does one have..and god is god is god.. merle Merle, Which god? The Christian one? Zeus? Allah? Krishna? Odin? Even if you pinpoint which god (The Big Daddy Creator) there is absolutely no evidence to believe in him or even make him necessary. I see, feel, smell, taste and hear reality. Take away the I and what more do you need? Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:31:19 AM mike..god??? why doubts?..merle Merle, i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the other? being an example :yes... and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best Asked and answered!! Mike Ps there are more poets and philosophers in the fox-holes than you would imagine. I've seen death while serving and it ain't pretty. This is partly what spurs me to practice so that when my time comes I will handle it with peace and compassion. I don't think I'd get this from a belief in a god because there would be too many doubts. Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:33:57 AM hi mike.. great to hear from you..you are an excellent teacher... do you teach?..so patient kind and caring and enthusiastic.. i appreciate this very much..and you have awareness and great insight.. i can't believe you are a military person..have you actually ever killed any one... or is that a stupid question? yes i know the prayer and i know the power of one... you are so so right..i am very christian ...i began going to a christian church when i was 7 because i wanted to...i did bible classes by correspondence (as well unknown to my parents)..i won prizes for bible study..i love the teachings of christ..i love the story of christ.. i will say that christ to would ask you to experience for yourself... in many respects all religions are very similar..they get f 'over by those in the power seat and people get manipulated... if we all followed the teachings of christ the world would be a good place.. there is enough suffering being alive and human without the wretched behaviour of humans... so this is the stuff i cannot understand..i sit here and can see the suffering that humans create because they are not aware... selfish and greedy with reptilian brains... how the hell can i change this... i am aware... i try to follow the 10 golden rules.. and am totally dumbfounded and always have been by folk who pay no heed to the 10 golden rules... you say see reality as it is..and as i see it it is so so need of repair..for us to make a paradise on earth we all need to breathe the breath.easier said than done... what do we do with those folk who will not listen, and never learn.. those who are causing chaos and devastation to others?... in my time i have been crucified in a way for sticking to what i believe to be the truth... however i'm not planning to be walk over hot coals anytime soon so to speak... i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the other? being an example :yes... and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best thank you for the time you have taken out to write your thoughts to me... yes you are a breath of fresh air in the forum and i appreciate your posts always! take care merle Hi! Exactly, it is simple! (yet so difficult to put into practice). We have to workout our own liberation from suffering before we can truly help anyone else. I'm sure you must have heard of the Serenity Prayer: God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. By changing how we perceive external events we change how we suffer. Then all our thoughts and actions come from Compassion (not pity!). We change how we deal with people around us and hopefully serve as an inspiration for them to also change. You've heard of the Power of One? But first *we* have to accept the responsibility of our own actions and not delegate the responsibility
RE: [Zen] G
Merle,br/br/Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's up to those who make an assertion of fact (that there is a personal, creator god) who have to prove it. It's impossible to prove a negative. For example, I also can't prove there are no leprechauns. br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
[Zen] G and the Just
Only he can be just who is able to put himself in the position of others. Gurdjieff Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
