[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Edgar, Just don't incur the need for it, and post civilly. Problem solved! We'll let it go at that. --Joe > Edgar Owen wrote: > > Joe, > > Changing a thread title is fine and is encouraged when the poster wants to > transition to a new thread. Nothing wrong with it at all. > > On the other hand snipping does "destroy the integrity of threads" and is > deprecated. You are the only poster here that does it. > > > That being said I don't think the moderators want to nit pick every aspect of > how members choose to post. The form of posts should pretty much be left up > to individual posters and excessive complaints about other's posting styles > are off topic and a distraction... > > Edgar > co-moderator > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Joe, Changing a thread title is fine and is encouraged when the poster wants to transition to a new thread. Nothing wrong with it at all. On the other hand snipping does "destroy the integrity of threads" and is deprecated. You are the only poster here that does it. That being said I don't think the moderators want to nit pick every aspect of how members choose to post. The form of posts should pretty much be left up to individual posters and excessive complaints about other's posting styles are off topic and a distraction... Edgar co-moderator On Jun 26, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Joe wrote: > Bill!, Edgar, > > One of the weak characteristics of the YAHOO! Zen Forum is caused by the > excess liberty that some posters take with changing the title of a thread. > > I see this as an extreme NEGATIVE. > > It destroys the integrity of a thread, where by "integrity" I do not mean > some vague moral advantage, but the integral-completeness and dedication of a > topic as begun by the OP (original poster). > > When the title of a thread keeps changing, so does the topic. This constant > morphing invites off-topic posting, because, well, there *IS* no topic, > anymore. > > Could you two Moderators, and Owner, please, in your draft of the policy for > behavior on Zen Forum, include some guideline(s) about thread-titles, and > please encourage members not to change them. > > It's my feeling that, once a thread has begun under one title by the OP, it > should NEVER be changed. This encourages good and due concentration on the > topic of the thread, and helps to eliminate large swings away from the topic, > and of Zen, in general. > > Too many posts are too chatty, and not devoted to ANY thread title, original, > or changed. One reason is the willy-nilly changing of thread titles: Leave > them alone! > > Keeping the integrity of a thread also allows the thread to be researched > reliably on the Website, where all posts go to enjoy immortality. > > Not on YAHOO!, but other "board" software makes it more obvious how this > virtue of thread integrity is actually valuable: you can see all the thread > titles of current activity, and can join or avoid certain ones. And you can > be sure the discussion will be on-topic, in any thread. > > On our Zen Forum, here, it seems that "anything goes", in any thread, because > focus is *diffused* by posters obsessively/excessively/incessantly changing > the subject, AND changing the thread title. > > What we get is "mush". > > Mush in, mush out. > > This is a major weakness thus far of this board, and a causative origin of > some of its wild meanderings, and incivilities. When threads become co-opted > by others and thus over-personalized, things become personal, and off-topic. > > Let posters begin NEW threads if they like, and not sponge-off of > concentrated, dedicated ones. > > I hope you can see a way to discourage the changing of thread titles in the > guidelines of any draft- and adopted-Posting/Replying policy. > > thanks! > > --Joe > > > "Bill!" wrote: > > > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > > > *** > [snip] > >
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Mike, I'm just not qualified to nominate you as a Zen master. I am an un-transmitted Dharma Teacher in Sheng Yen's line, and still in training the next few years in USA and Taiwan in the details of running Ch'an retreat (Sesshin), and teaching to students. I feel qualified to urge you and Chris to moderate, here, because I've seen both your civility, smarts, evidence of practice, and compassion, displayed on these boards. Chris is right, though, that writings, even here, do not constitute knowing a person. Kudos. To be a Zen master, Mike, you'll need transmission from your Zen teacher. It's an assent that the Apprentice Teacher is now a Journeyman Teacher, and an introduction and announcement to the world by the established teacher that this new teacher can do good work, is a willing member of the lineage, and is available to serve as a teacher. So it's been, for 87 generations. best!, --Joe > uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > Joe, What? Are you saying I couldn't be a Zen master? I'll have you know I > read a book on Zen once. Well, ok - it was a pamphlet about the temple I was > visiting. But it was very informative pamphlet. With pictures and all. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Joe,What? Are you saying I couldn't be a Zen master? I'll have you know I read a book on Zen once. Well, ok - it was a pamphlet about the temple I was visiting. But it was very informative pamphlet. With pictures and all.MikeSent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Mike, Now, I nominated you as a co-Moderator, not as a Ch'an / Zen Master!: uniform = Robe stick = Kyosaku / Shiang Ban arrest = arrest the illusory activity of the false "mind" But, I can make any sort of stick, to your specifications (send email). --Joe > uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > Joe, Only if I get to wear a uniform, wield a big stick and have the power to > arrest. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Joe,Only if I get to wear a uniform, wield a big stick and have the power to arrest.MikeSent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Bill!, I would nominate Mike and Chris as possible Moderators-in-Waiting. --Joe / the-Immoderate > "Bill!" wrote: > > Mike, > > There are two of us so we will moderate ourselves. We will also listen to > any complaints or suggestions any of you have. > > Also, if anyone wants to volunteer to be a Moderator please let us know. > Neither Edgar or I intend to be Moderator here for life. > > ...Bill! Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Bill!,Fair enough. I assume you'll both be holding each other to the same standard expected of the rest of us..MikeSent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Pudgala2, We haven't heard from you in a long time. Welcome back! We're close to implementing the policy listed below, or something very close to it. Please jump right in and offer up a juicy zen topic. I think we'd all love to discuss something like that rather than all this policy stuff. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "pudgala2" wrote: > > > > Hello Bill!, > > I don't know how your email got through to me but I'm glad it did. It reads > like something I could have written. I am in awe of Zen and enjoy expressing > my understanding of it. I am now reconsidering posting here. > > Thank you, > pudgala2 > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > > > *** > > > > - All posts and replies should have some relevance to the forum's published > > topic zen,or related areas such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, > > philosophy, etc..., as long as you tie it back to zen. Digressions will be > > tolerated to some extent, but any truly off-topic conversations should be > > taken off the forum to another medium such as email. > > - No personal attacks will be tolerated ad hominems. This will be > > strictly enforced. Calling someone `stupid' and then following that with a > > smiley face will not be accepted as an amelioration. > > - Spirited disagreements about ideas or opinions are encouraged. > > > > - The Forum Moderators will discuss any problematic Posts or Replies and > > will issue a warning (privately via email) to anyone they deem to have > > violated this policy. There is no set number of warnings. The number > > could range from zero to three or four depending on the severity of the > > violation as determined by the Moderators. > > - If the member does continues to violate this policy his/her membership > > posting privileges will be changed to MODERATE - which means all Posts and > > Replies will have to be read and approved by the Moderators before it is > > posted to the Forum. > > > > > > > > Please return your comments or suggestions promptly so we can enact this > > policy post haste. > > > > Thanks...Bill! ...for Edgar and Al > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Mike, There are two of us so we will moderate ourselves. We will also listen to any complaints or suggestions any of you have. Also, if anyone wants to volunteer to be a Moderator please let us know. Neither Edgar or I intend to be Moderator here for life. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > Great. But who moderates the moderators?...Sent from Yahoo! > Mail for iPad > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Bill!, Edgar, One of the weak characteristics of the YAHOO! Zen Forum is caused by the excess liberty that some posters take with changing the title of a thread. I see this as an extreme NEGATIVE. It destroys the integrity of a thread, where by "integrity" I do not mean some vague moral advantage, but the integral-completeness and dedication of a topic as begun by the OP (original poster). When the title of a thread keeps changing, so does the topic. This constant morphing invites off-topic posting, because, well, there *IS* no topic, anymore. Could you two Moderators, and Owner, please, in your draft of the policy for behavior on Zen Forum, include some guideline(s) about thread-titles, and please encourage members not to change them. It's my feeling that, once a thread has begun under one title by the OP, it should NEVER be changed. This encourages good and due concentration on the topic of the thread, and helps to eliminate large swings away from the topic, and of Zen, in general. Too many posts are too chatty, and not devoted to ANY thread title, original, or changed. One reason is the willy-nilly changing of thread titles: Leave them alone! Keeping the integrity of a thread also allows the thread to be researched reliably on the Website, where all posts go to enjoy immortality. Not on YAHOO!, but other "board" software makes it more obvious how this virtue of thread integrity is actually valuable: you can see all the thread titles of current activity, and can join or avoid certain ones. And you can be sure the discussion will be on-topic, in any thread. On our Zen Forum, here, it seems that "anything goes", in any thread, because focus is *diffused* by posters obsessively/excessively/incessantly changing the subject, AND changing the thread title. What we get is "mush". Mush in, mush out. This is a major weakness thus far of this board, and a causative origin of some of its wild meanderings, and incivilities. When threads become co-opted by others and thus over-personalized, things become personal, and off-topic. Let posters begin NEW threads if they like, and not sponge-off of concentrated, dedicated ones. I hope you can see a way to discourage the changing of thread titles in the guidelines of any draft- and adopted-Posting/Replying policy. thanks! --Joe > "Bill!" wrote: > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > *** [snip] Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Pudgala, Thank you for your public support for our new policy and I as a moderator encourage you to post to the group... I also encourage all other lurker members to post also now that they needn't worry about overly harsh responses Best, Edgar On Jun 26, 2013, at 7:10 PM, pudgala2 wrote: > > > Hello Bill!, > > I don't know how your email got through to me but I'm glad it did. It reads > like something I could have written. I am in awe of Zen and enjoy expressing > my understanding of it. I am now reconsidering posting here. > > Thank you, > pudgala2 > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > > > *** > > > > - All posts and replies should have some relevance to the forum's published > > topic – zen,or related areas such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, > > philosophy, etc..., as long as you tie it back to zen. Digressions will be > > tolerated to some extent, but any truly off-topic conversations should be > > taken off the forum to another medium such as email. > > - No personal attacks will be tolerated – ad hominems. This will be > > strictly enforced. Calling someone `stupid' and then following that with a > > smiley face will not be accepted as an amelioration. > > - Spirited disagreements about ideas or opinions are encouraged. > > > > - The Forum Moderators will discuss any problematic Posts or Replies and > > will issue a warning (privately via email) to anyone they deem to have > > violated this policy. There is no set number of warnings. The number could > > range from zero to three or four depending on the severity of the violation > > as determined by the Moderators. > > - If the member does continues to violate this policy his/her membership > > posting privileges will be changed to MODERATE - which means all Posts and > > Replies will have to be read and approved by the Moderators before it is > > posted to the Forum. > > > > > > > > Please return your comments or suggestions promptly so we can enact this > > policy post haste. > > > > Thanks...Bill! ...for Edgar and Al > > > >
Re: [Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Joe, Private or public either one fine with me... Edgar On Jun 26, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Joe wrote: > Bill!, Edgar, Group, > > Thanks for airing the draft around and considering comments. > > The draft policy looks good to me. I will follow it or any other finalized > one if implemented. > > I look on such a policy and its respect and enforcement as having the utmost > value. > > On a point of operation, I think a private warning from the moderator(s) on > infractions is better than a public one because a private warning will not > stimulate or instigate online discussion of the infraction. I think it's > enough for the errant poster alone to be informed of having crossed a line or > violated Terms of Service; it's in any case up to the errant poster to either > reform, or to be moderated (or perhaps even sensibly to be banned in an > extreme set of recurring instances). > > I look forward to concentrated discussions, more dedicated upon our topic(s). > > With thanks! for all you do, each and every one, > > --Joe > > > "Bill!" wrote: > > > > Nighty-night all...I'll pick up any comments in the morning and we can get > > this finalized and in place. > > > > Thanks...Bill! > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future > > > Posts and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably > > > publicly or privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > > > > > *** > [snip] > >
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Hello Bill!, I don't know how your email got through to me but I'm glad it did. It reads like something I could have written. I am in awe of Zen and enjoy expressing my understanding of it. I am now reconsidering posting here. Thank you, pudgala2 --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > *** > > - All posts and replies should have some relevance to the forum's published > topic zen,or related areas such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, > philosophy, etc..., as long as you tie it back to zen. Digressions will be > tolerated to some extent, but any truly off-topic conversations should be > taken off the forum to another medium such as email. > - No personal attacks will be tolerated ad hominems. This will be strictly > enforced. Calling someone `stupid' and then following that with a smiley > face will not be accepted as an amelioration. > - Spirited disagreements about ideas or opinions are encouraged. > > - The Forum Moderators will discuss any problematic Posts or Replies and will > issue a warning (privately via email) to anyone they deem to have violated > this policy. There is no set number of warnings. The number could range > from zero to three or four depending on the severity of the violation as > determined by the Moderators. > - If the member does continues to violate this policy his/her membership > posting privileges will be changed to MODERATE - which means all Posts and > Replies will have to be read and approved by the Moderators before it is > posted to the Forum. > > > > Please return your comments or suggestions promptly so we can enact this > policy post haste. > > Thanks...Bill! ...for Edgar and Al > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Bill!, Edgar, Group, Thanks for airing the draft around and considering comments. The draft policy looks good to me. I will follow it or any other finalized one if implemented. I look on such a policy and its respect and enforcement as having the utmost value. On a point of operation, I think a private warning from the moderator(s) on infractions is better than a public one because a private warning will not stimulate or instigate online discussion of the infraction. I think it's enough for the errant poster alone to be informed of having crossed a line or violated Terms of Service; it's in any case up to the errant poster to either reform, or to be moderated (or perhaps even sensibly to be banned in an extreme set of recurring instances). I look forward to concentrated discussions, more dedicated upon our topic(s). With thanks! for all you do, each and every one, --Joe > "Bill!" wrote: > > Nighty-night all...I'll pick up any comments in the morning and we can get > this finalized and in place. > > Thanks...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > > > *** [snip] Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Great. But who moderates the moderators?...Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Nighty-night all...I'll pick up any comments in the morning and we can get this finalized and in place. Thanks...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > *** > > - All posts and replies should have some relevance to the forum's published > topic zen,or related areas such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, > philosophy, etc..., as long as you tie it back to zen. Digressions will be > tolerated to some extent, but any truly off-topic conversations should be > taken off the forum to another medium such as email. > - No personal attacks will be tolerated ad hominems. This will be strictly > enforced. Calling someone `stupid' and then following that with a smiley > face will not be accepted as an amelioration. > - Spirited disagreements about ideas or opinions are encouraged. > > - The Forum Moderators will discuss any problematic Posts or Replies and will > issue a warning (privately via email) to anyone they deem to have violated > this policy. There is no set number of warnings. The number could range > from zero to three or four depending on the severity of the violation as > determined by the Moderators. > - If the member does continues to violate this policy his/her membership > posting privileges will be changed to MODERATE - which means all Posts and > Replies will have to be read and approved by the Moderators before it is > posted to the Forum. > > > > Please return your comments or suggestions promptly so we can enact this > policy post haste. > > Thanks...Bill! ...for Edgar and Al > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
