Re: [VOTE] retire zeta components from incubation
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Benjamin Eberlei kont...@beberlei.de wrote: +1 for github On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 2:30 AM, Ole Marius Smestad o...@apache.org wrote: On Friday 13. April 2012 at 10:30, Julien Vermillard wrote: Hi, Due to the reasons exposed later, and mainly due to lack of activity : [X] +1 Retire the Zeta components project and move to another infra like github (I am ambivalent about this vote, but...) I do think that this project can do nicely on github, and what Christian and Julien said about the state of community seems accurate. That being said, I also think think that James' suggestion should be considered, it doesn't seem necessary to block a release, for test infrastructure changes, which presumably can be done at a later point. We have no rush with retiring this project. If you feel that you guys want stay at the ASF no problem. In this case please lets make up a plan and set some kind of a date at which we reflect the situation again. If you want to give it another try change your vote to -1 and lets discuss it again. Surely you'll find open ears. Cheers Christian Hi, Before closing the vote, it would be nice to have a vote of all the involved zeta commiters, if you belive this podling have a chance to regain activity and cutting release, you can vote against the retirement of apache incubator. Julien
Re: [VOTE] retire zeta components from incubation
+1 GitHub rocks your socks !
Re: [VOTE] retire zeta components from incubation
On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 10:30 +0200, Julien Vermillard wrote: Hi, Due to the reasons exposed later, and mainly due to lack of activity : [ ] +1 Retire the Zeta components project and move to another infra like github [ ] -1 Do not retire the project, because ... ±0 I do not want to vote on this because of a bunch of reasons. But since you seem to be waiting for a vote from my / our side I still send this mail. Cheers, Kore -- Kore Nordmann(GPG 0xDDC70BBB) - What I do: http://kore-nordmann.de/portfolio.html - Motivate me: http://wishlist.kore-nordmann.de/ - Hire me: http://qafoo.com/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [VOTE] retire zeta components from incubation
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Kore Nordmann m...@kore-nordmann.de wrote: On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 10:30 +0200, Julien Vermillard wrote: Hi, Due to the reasons exposed later, and mainly due to lack of activity : [ ] +1 Retire the Zeta components project and move to another infra like github [ ] -1 Do not retire the project, because ... ±0 I do not want to vote on this because of a bunch of reasons. But since you seem to be waiting for a vote from my / our side I still send this mail. If your reasons are related to the project we are all interested in them. Cheers! Cheers, Kore -- Kore Nordmann (GPG 0xDDC70BBB) - What I do: http://kore-nordmann.de/portfolio.html - Motivate me: http://wishlist.kore-nordmann.de/ - Hire me: http://qafoo.com/ -- http://www.grobmeier.de https://www.timeandbill.de
Re: [VOTE] retire zeta components from incubation
Hi, On 04/13/2012 10:30 AM, Julien Vermillard wrote: Due to the reasons exposed later, and mainly due to lack of activity : [ ] +1 Retire the Zeta components project and move to another infra like github [ ] -1 Do not retire the project, because ... sadly, I did not find time to look into all this stuff. This also seems the reason that Zeta is dying: Time lack. I'm a bit sad, that Zeta is being closed down, but I think that it's the logical way to go. Since I won't find any time to take care for it in the near future, I cannot go any other way than vote ±0 for the retirement. If anyone feels to have the time for taking care of the project, I'd be rather happy. However, due to business reasons, I personally cannot. Benjamin just proposed to move the code to a Github organization, which I find the best solution for now. Best regards, Toby -- Tobias Schlitthttp://schlitt.infoGPG Key: 0xC462BC14 Want to hire me? Need quality assurance?http://qafoo.com eZ Components are Zeta Components now! http://bit.ly/9S7zbn
Re: [VOTE] retire zeta components from incubation
Hi, On Apr 20, 2012 11:26 AM, Tobias Schlitt tob...@schlitt.info wrote: sadly, I did not find time to look into all this stuff. This also seems the reason that Zeta is dying: Time lack. I'm a bit sad, that Zeta is being closed down, but I think that it's the logical way to go. I think the important part is that PHP is finally starting to have a reasonable infrastructure for having a proper ecosystem: * Composer for dependency handling and easy library publishing * PSR-0 for standard autoloading * GitHub for collaborative development * Travis for continuous integration These four combined make it much easier to publish simpler, more decoupled libraries that just works. Node.js has a very similar infrastructure with NPM, and there indeed this has produced hundreds of compatible modules that are widely used, and that don't need any sort of monolithic project governance structure. I think there is still a place for an effort advocating library interoperability, quality and coding standards. Zeta could be that, but it needs to be part of this new ecosystem, not something standing outside of it. Toby /Henri
Re: Migrating Zeta Componetns to Github
Adding to this: I could use some help of course, so anyone also feeling to volunteer can do so. My idea was to create a repository with a bash/php script collection that does the migration and then collaborate on that until we have the final version to use. Starting point is here: https://github.com/zetacomponents/svn-git-migration On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Benjamin Eberlei kont...@beberlei.dewrote: Repost into its own topic for better seperation: I volunteered to do a migration of the code to github. I will do the following steps: 1. Do a SVN to Git migration for every component on its own. Every component will have its own repository with issue tracker on Github. 2. Rewrite history to add composer.json files to all stable tags 3. Push to Github Derick already opened an Organization on Github and I guess all current committers will get write access to it. Adding composer helps us with the deployment issue in the short term and in the medium/long term we could maybe setup a pirum channel on github pages to enable PEAR installation again. Composer can work with classmaps so that the file/class layout is no problem for autoloading and components become instantly usable by third parties. The next step would then be that committers claim components and we determine the deprecated/abandoned/ maintained state of each of them. Every maintainer is then responsible for getting the tests back running with the new schema and adding this to travis-ci. I will attempt to do this for one component as a demonstration. I can't give a timeframe on this but will highly prioritize this and hope to get it done within a week. greetings, Benjamin
Re: [VOTE] retire zeta components from incubation
Hi, Am Freitag, 20. April 2012, 11:25:20 schrieb Tobias Schlitt: Hi, [snip] sadly, I did not find time to look into all this stuff. This also seems the reason that Zeta is dying: Time lack. I'm a bit sad, that Zeta is being closed down, but I think that it's the logical way to go. Since I won't find any time to take care for it in the near future, I cannot go any other way than vote Nice to see some reactions of the core developers. Especially thanks to Toby because of the very clear words. It's really sad to see that the Zeta Components did not reached it's goals here at Apache. It's sad to see that the core committers are not able to maintain the project. It's sad to see no more development. (It's sad that I wasn't able to support the Components more.) Probably github is a better place. But I do not expect more life there. What I'm missing: - What's the future of the Components? Is it just maintenance mode? - What's the legal/license situation regarding the history/eZ Systems? - What's eZ's position? (I guess they are most interested in a clear situation of the project.) Would it be helpful to have an IRC meeting to discuss the future? (Or is it to political to speak clear words where everything is perhaps somehow logged?) Thomas
Future plans for ZetaComponents
new topic gets new topic =) What I'm missing: - What's the future of the Components? Is it just maintenance mode? - What's the legal/license situation regarding the history/eZ Systems? - What's eZ's position? (I guess they are most interested in a clear situation of the project.) the first target is still, to have a full tested and working release. Maintaining the current Code is the Main Task for ZetaComponents. Lets Assume for this discussion, that we get this done now and that maintaining will be done without a mention. So what could be future Plans? - refactor the Code, to match current standards Is a nice Task, but i dont think, that it needs a high priority. Maybe partially for some often used components, like the ConsoleTools. A Question which should be later discussed inside of the component Teams(after we have defined coding rules related to the new standards) - define Coding rules for the new standards. We should not force new Component submissions to the old coding architecture style if there are things like PSR-0 - new Components There are still big areas, where no high Quality library exists. We cant expect, that single persons/groups contribute a full idea+architecture+code package. So we need to define a more stepped plan, how we can allow submissions who walk trought the steps with different contributers and over a very long timeframe in each phase and still can garant a high quality. To develop such a prozess is the next big step, if Zeta wants really to grow and to keep its high quality standard.
Re: Migrating Zeta Componetns to Github
On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, Benjamin Eberlei wrote: Derick already opened an Organization on Github and I guess all current committers will get write access to it. I've also set-up a mailinglist: z...@lists.xdebug.org You can subscribe by sending an email to zeta-subscr...@lists.xdebug.org cheers, Derick
Re: Migrating Zeta Componetns to Github
Can't apache just pass the repo to say Derick or something ? https://github.com/apache/zetacomponents
Re: Migrating Zeta Componetns to Github
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Derick Rethans der...@apache.org wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, Benjamin Eberlei wrote: Derick already opened an Organization on Github and I guess all current committers will get write access to it. I've also set-up a mailinglist: z...@lists.xdebug.org Thank you ! How can I subscribe to the ML ? Regards
Re: Migrating Zeta Componetns to Github
On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, Derick Rethans wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, Benjamin Eberlei wrote: Derick already opened an Organization on Github and I guess all current committers will get write access to it. I've also set-up a mailinglist: z...@lists.xdebug.org You can subscribe by sending an email to zeta-subscr...@lists.xdebug.org I go that wrong. It's: Send an e-mail to ecar...@lists.xdebug.org with subject subscribe zeta cheers, Derick
Re: Migrating Zeta Componetns to Github
On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, James Pic wrote: Can't apache just pass the repo to say Derick or something ? https://github.com/apache/zetacomponents I think we should split it up, so that we can/could orphan specific components. I doubt anybody wants to maintain PhpGenerator f.e. cheers, Derick
Re: [VOTE] retire zeta components from incubation
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Henri Bergius henri.berg...@iki.fiwrote: Hi, On Apr 20, 2012 11:26 AM, Tobias Schlitt tob...@schlitt.info wrote: sadly, I did not find time to look into all this stuff. This also seems the reason that Zeta is dying: Time lack. I'm a bit sad, that Zeta is being closed down, but I think that it's the logical way to go. I think the important part is that PHP is finally starting to have a reasonable infrastructure for having a proper ecosystem: * Composer for dependency handling and easy library publishing * PSR-0 for standard autoloading * GitHub for collaborative development * Travis for continuous integration These four combined make it much easier to publish simpler, more decoupled libraries that just works. Node.js has a very similar infrastructure with NPM, and there indeed this has produced hundreds of compatible modules that are widely used, and that don't need any sort of monolithic project governance structure. I think there is still a place for an effort advocating library interoperability, quality and coding standards. Zeta could be that, but it needs to be part of this new ecosystem, not something standing outside of it. Good points, but don't we need to setup a light organization / project governance around this, some people that have a stake in the project and can oversee the github account[, merging pull requests], github webpages, travis setup and potentially also do some release management. For mail I guess we can use Google groups like php-fig does. Related thread on share.ez.no: http://share.ez.no/forums/general/how-is-zeta-components Toby /Henri - ar
Re: [VOTE] retire zeta components from incubation
On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, André Rømcke wrote: but don't we need to setup a light organization / project governance around this, some people that have a stake in the project and can oversee the github account[, merging pull requests], github webpages, travis setup and potentially also do some release management. What do you suggest that governance should do? For mail I guess we can use Google groups like php-fig does. Ugh, never Google Groups. I've set-up a ML as per the other thread. cheers, Derick
Re: Migrating Zeta Componetns to Github
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Patrick ALLAERT patrickalla...@php.net wrote: 2012/4/20 Benjamin Eberlei kont...@beberlei.de: Adding to this: I could use some help of course, so anyone also feeling to volunteer can do so. My idea was to create a repository with a bash/php script collection that does the migration and then collaborate on that until we have the final version to use. Starting point is here: https://github.com/zetacomponents/svn-git-migration I'd like to help here since I have a bit of this experience having moved eZ Publish to github. I already shared the script using a PR: https://github.com/zetacomponents/svn-git-migration/pull/1 This could help too: http://help.github.com/import-from-subversion/ cheers I also have a local users.txt containing all the information of users having committed code to ezc/zeta but since it contains e-mail addresses, I don't really know if I should push it on github and/or send it here as attachment or even using a private gist. Feel free to have suggestion. Cheers, Patrick -- http://www.grobmeier.de https://www.timeandbill.de
Re: Migrating Zeta Componetns to Github
Do you want people to maintain their components, contribute to other's components ? If that's a need then the purpose of the migration should help this, and not just about throwing the code at github's face.
Re: Migrating Zeta Componetns to Github
On 04/20/2012 01:35 PM, Benjamin Eberlei wrote: The next step would then be that committers claim components and we determine the deprecated/abandoned/ maintained state of each of them. Every maintainer is then responsible for getting the tests back running with the new schema and adding this to travis-ci. I will attempt to do this for one component as a demonstration. I'd volunteer to maintain the Reflection component.
Re: [ACTION REQUIRED] Did you recognize we CLOSE Zeta Components?
+1 -- Forwarded message -- From: Julien Vermillard jvermill...@gmail.com Date: Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [VOTE] retire zeta components from incubation To: zeta-dev@incubator.apache.org On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Benjamin Eberlei kont...@beberlei.de wrote: +1 for github On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 2:30 AM, Ole Marius Smestad o...@apache.org wrote: On Friday 13. April 2012 at 10:30, Julien Vermillard wrote: Hi, Due to the reasons exposed later, and mainly due to lack of activity : [X] +1 Retire the Zeta components project and move to another infra like github (I am ambivalent about this vote, but...) I do think that this project can do nicely on github, and what Christian and Julien said about the state of community seems accurate. That being said, I also think think that James' suggestion should be considered, it doesn't seem necessary to block a release, for test infrastructure changes, which presumably can be done at a later point. We have no rush with retiring this project. If you feel that you guys want stay at the ASF no problem. In this case please lets make up a plan and set some kind of a date at which we reflect the situation again. If you want to give it another try change your vote to -1 and lets discuss it again. Surely you'll find open ears. Cheers Christian Hi, Before closing the vote, it would be nice to have a vote of all the involved zeta commiters, if you belive this podling have a chance to regain activity and cutting release, you can vote against the retirement of apache incubator. Julien -- http://www.grobmeier.de https://www.timeandbill.de
