Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
Toby Thain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'll just add, but not for Mac OS X. It was way back in Finder 7 > > days, > > when they used to ship A/UX. (That was where I cut my unix teeth.) > > I was actually thinking more of NEXTSTEP, certainly a generation > beyond A/UX; and OS X, a generation further again. > > When should we expect Solaris kernel under OS X? 10.6? 10.7? :-) Definitely a good idea ;-) But I doubt that Apple will go this way. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On 6/8/07, Dick Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 08/06/07, BVK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > File based CDDL license seems like a right choice to a company like > Apple. My only worry is, Apple never works in open, so their > improvements may never get back into the community. Apple have given plenty back to the BSD projects (although nothing required them to). Sorry, i was unaware of any Apple's contributions back to BSD community. If it is the case then, its good and i don't have any problems with Apple :) / bvk-chaitanya ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On 6/8/07, Rich Teer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, BVK wrote: > File based CDDL license seems like a right choice to a company like > Apple. My only worry is, Apple never works in open, so their > improvements may never get back into the community. But that can't happen (to files that Apple modifies at least): the CDDL dictates that any changes you make to CDDLed files must be made available under the CDDL. If Apple create a NEW source file, then yes, it is possible that they wouldn't release the source for that file; the CDDL permits this. What if the system doesn't function with-out that NEW source file? Say for example, I change a CDDL source file and also add a NEW source file. With my changes, CDDL file now depends on NEW file for its proper functionality. But i dont give my NEW source file back to community. Does CDDL restrict scenarios like this? just curious, / bvk-chaitanya ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On Jun 8, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Rich Teer wrote: On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, BVK wrote: File based CDDL license seems like a right choice to a company like Apple. My only worry is, Apple never works in open, so their improvements may never get back into the community. But that can't happen (to files that Apple modifies at least): the CDDL dictates that any changes you make to CDDLed files must be made available under the CDDL. If Apple create a NEW source file, then yes, it is possible that they wouldn't release the source for that file; the CDDL permits this. No worries anyway. Apple has put most all of their stuff back that they work on that is open source. That does not mean stuff that they invent that interacts with open source. Safari is a good example of a new project that relied on open source and that apple put back. Now Nokia uses the same stuff in some of their phones. My N80 for example Chad ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, BVK wrote: > File based CDDL license seems like a right choice to a company like > Apple. My only worry is, Apple never works in open, so their > improvements may never get back into the community. But that can't happen (to files that Apple modifies at least): the CDDL dictates that any changes you make to CDDLed files must be made available under the CDDL. If Apple create a NEW source file, then yes, it is possible that they wouldn't release the source for that file; the CDDL permits this. -- Rich Teer, SCSA, SCNA, SCSECA, OGB member CEO, My Online Home Inventory Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URLs: http://www.rite-group.com/rich http://www.myonlinehomeinventory.com ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, Toby Thain wrote: On 8-Jun-07, at 3:13 AM, BVK wrote: On 6/8/07, Toby Thain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: When should we expect Solaris kernel under OS X? 10.6? 10.7? :-) I think its quite possible. I believe, very soon they will ditch their Mach based (?) BSD and switch to solaris. Many think this would be a good move. :) File based CDDL license seems like a right choice to a company like Apple. My only worry is, Apple never works in open, so their improvements may never get back into the community. To _me_ Apple like company looks more dangerous than Microsoft :-( Perhaps when they're at 95% market share. Please - this thread is only diverging with each post and is already _way_ off topic. Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Apr 2005 to Mar 2007 http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/ogb/ogb_2005-2007/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On 8-Jun-07, at 3:13 AM, BVK wrote: On 6/8/07, Toby Thain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: When should we expect Solaris kernel under OS X? 10.6? 10.7? :-) I think its quite possible. I believe, very soon they will ditch their Mach based (?) BSD and switch to solaris. Many think this would be a good move. :) File based CDDL license seems like a right choice to a company like Apple. My only worry is, Apple never works in open, so their improvements may never get back into the community. To _me_ Apple like company looks more dangerous than Microsoft :-( Perhaps when they're at 95% market share. --Toby / bvk-chaitanya ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On 08/06/07, BVK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 6/8/07, Toby Thain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > When should we expect Solaris kernel under OS X? 10.6? 10.7? :-) > I think its quite possible. I believe, very soon they will ditch their Mach based (?) BSD and switch to solaris. I think that's extremely unlikely. Only the OSX userland is BSD like, and I'm not sure what replacing that would gain them. Why would they want a Solaris kernel? File based CDDL license seems like a right choice to a company like Apple. My only worry is, Apple never works in open, so their improvements may never get back into the community. Apple have given plenty back to the BSD projects (although nothing required them to). -- Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns http://number9.hellooperator.net/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On 6/8/07, Toby Thain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: When should we expect Solaris kernel under OS X? 10.6? 10.7? :-) I think its quite possible. I believe, very soon they will ditch their Mach based (?) BSD and switch to solaris. File based CDDL license seems like a right choice to a company like Apple. My only worry is, Apple never works in open, so their improvements may never get back into the community. To _me_ Apple like company looks more dangerous than Microsoft :-( / bvk-chaitanya ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 08:38:10PM -0300, Toby Thain wrote: > When should we expect Solaris kernel under OS X? 10.6? 10.7? :-) I'm sure Jonathan will be announcing that soon. ;-) Adam -- Adam Leventhal, Solaris Kernel Development http://blogs.sun.com/ahl ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On 7-Jun-07, at 8:13 PM, Frank Cusack wrote: On June 7, 2007 6:37:29 PM -0300 Toby Thain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 7-Jun-07, at 6:28 PM, Frank Cusack wrote: On June 7, 2007 6:21:34 PM -0300 Toby Thain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In general, IMHO this will be good for ZFS: Apple won't ship until it's shaken down and idiot proof. Oh, I dunno. Apple ships a lot of buggy stuff. Not at this level. Remember they were the first company to make UNIX truly ready for consumer desktops, I'll just add, but not for Mac OS X. It was way back in Finder 7 days, when they used to ship A/UX. (That was where I cut my unix teeth.) I was actually thinking more of NEXTSTEP, certainly a generation beyond A/UX; and OS X, a generation further again. When should we expect Solaris kernel under OS X? 10.6? 10.7? :-) --T -frank ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On June 7, 2007 6:37:29 PM -0300 Toby Thain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 7-Jun-07, at 6:28 PM, Frank Cusack wrote: On June 7, 2007 6:21:34 PM -0300 Toby Thain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In general, IMHO this will be good for ZFS: Apple won't ship until it's shaken down and idiot proof. Oh, I dunno. Apple ships a lot of buggy stuff. Not at this level. Remember they were the first company to make UNIX truly ready for consumer desktops, I'll just add, but not for Mac OS X. It was way back in Finder 7 days, when they used to ship A/UX. (That was where I cut my unix teeth.) -frank ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On 7-Jun-07, at 6:28 PM, Frank Cusack wrote: On June 7, 2007 6:21:34 PM -0300 Toby Thain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In general, IMHO this will be good for ZFS: Apple won't ship until it's shaken down and idiot proof. Oh, I dunno. Apple ships a lot of buggy stuff. Not at this level. Remember they were the first company to make UNIX truly ready for consumer desktops, & I've been running it since 10.0 (and in production since 10.2). I expect this will result in substantial quality feedback and patches from Apple, which we probably have not seen yet due to their traditional pre-release secrecy? Or due to the the lack of any serious issues thanks to the awesome Sun zfs team. :-) Indeed, both are top of the game. This is great news for us Mac users. --Toby -frank ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On June 7, 2007 6:21:34 PM -0300 Toby Thain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In general, IMHO this will be good for ZFS: Apple won't ship until it's shaken down and idiot proof. Oh, I dunno. Apple ships a lot of buggy stuff. I expect this will result in substantial quality feedback and patches from Apple, which we probably have not seen yet due to their traditional pre-release secrecy? Or due to the the lack of any serious issues thanks to the awesome Sun zfs team. :-) -frank ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On 7-Jun-07, at 4:53 PM, Lee Fyock wrote: Thanks, Chad. There's some debate in the Mac community about what the phrase "the file system in Mac OS X" means. Does that mean that machines that ship with Leopard will run on ZFS discs by default? Will ZFS be the default file system when initializing a new drive? IMHO, that seems unlikely, given that zfs boot is still an unreleased feature. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though. OS X is radically different from Solaris, it would not surprise me at all if Apple ships this functionality for their integrated hardware. :) In general, IMHO this will be good for ZFS: Apple won't ship until it's shaken down and idiot proof. I expect this will result in substantial quality feedback and patches from Apple, which we probably have not seen yet due to their traditional pre-release secrecy? --Toby If there's anyone in the know, please feel free to speak up. :-) Thanks, Lee On Jun 7, 2007, at 2:58 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On Jun 7, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Rick Mann wrote: From Macintouch (http://macintouch.com/#other.2007.06.07): --- On stage Wednesday in Washington D.C., Sun Microsystems Inc. CEO Jonathan Schwartz revealed that his company's open-source ZFS file system will replace Apple's long-used HFS+ in Mac OS X 10.5, a.k.a. "Leopard," when the new operating system ships this fall. "This week, you'll see that Apple is announcing at their Worldwide Developers Conference that ZFS has become the file system in Mac OS X," said Schwartz. ZFS (Zettabyte File System), designed by Sun for its Solaris OS but licensed as open-source, is a 128-bit file storage system that features, among other things, "pooled storage," which means that users simply plug in additional drives to add space, without worrying about such traditional storage parameters as volumes or partitions. "[ZFS] eliminates volume management, it has extremely high performance It permits the failure of disk drives," crowed Schwartz during a presentation focused on Sun's new blade servers. --- We'll see next week what Steve announces at the WWDC keynote (which is not under NDA like the rest of the conference). I'll be there and try to remember to post what is said (though it will probably be in a billion other places as well) Chad ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
Thanks, Chad. There's some debate in the Mac community about what the phrase "the file system in Mac OS X" means. Does that mean that machines that ship with Leopard will run on ZFS discs by default? Will ZFS be the default file system when initializing a new drive? IMHO, that seems unlikely, given that zfs boot is still an unreleased feature. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though. If there's anyone in the know, please feel free to speak up. :-) Thanks, Lee On Jun 7, 2007, at 2:58 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On Jun 7, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Rick Mann wrote: From Macintouch (http://macintouch.com/#other.2007.06.07): --- On stage Wednesday in Washington D.C., Sun Microsystems Inc. CEO Jonathan Schwartz revealed that his company's open-source ZFS file system will replace Apple's long-used HFS+ in Mac OS X 10.5, a.k.a. "Leopard," when the new operating system ships this fall. "This week, you'll see that Apple is announcing at their Worldwide Developers Conference that ZFS has become the file system in Mac OS X," said Schwartz. ZFS (Zettabyte File System), designed by Sun for its Solaris OS but licensed as open-source, is a 128-bit file storage system that features, among other things, "pooled storage," which means that users simply plug in additional drives to add space, without worrying about such traditional storage parameters as volumes or partitions. "[ZFS] eliminates volume management, it has extremely high performance It permits the failure of disk drives," crowed Schwartz during a presentation focused on Sun's new blade servers. --- We'll see next week what Steve announces at the WWDC keynote (which is not under NDA like the rest of the conference). I'll be there and try to remember to post what is said (though it will probably be in a billion other places as well) Chad ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On Jun 7, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Rick Mann wrote: From Macintouch (http://macintouch.com/#other.2007.06.07): --- On stage Wednesday in Washington D.C., Sun Microsystems Inc. CEO Jonathan Schwartz revealed that his company's open-source ZFS file system will replace Apple's long-used HFS+ in Mac OS X 10.5, a.k.a. "Leopard," when the new operating system ships this fall. "This week, you'll see that Apple is announcing at their Worldwide Developers Conference that ZFS has become the file system in Mac OS X," said Schwartz. ZFS (Zettabyte File System), designed by Sun for its Solaris OS but licensed as open-source, is a 128-bit file storage system that features, among other things, "pooled storage," which means that users simply plug in additional drives to add space, without worrying about such traditional storage parameters as volumes or partitions. "[ZFS] eliminates volume management, it has extremely high performance It permits the failure of disk drives," crowed Schwartz during a presentation focused on Sun's new blade servers. --- We'll see next week what Steve announces at the WWDC keynote (which is not under NDA like the rest of the conference). I'll be there and try to remember to post what is said (though it will probably be in a billion other places as well) Chad ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
>From Macintouch (http://macintouch.com/#other.2007.06.07): --- On stage Wednesday in Washington D.C., Sun Microsystems Inc. CEO Jonathan Schwartz revealed that his company's open-source ZFS file system will replace Apple's long-used HFS+ in Mac OS X 10.5, a.k.a. "Leopard," when the new operating system ships this fall. "This week, you'll see that Apple is announcing at their Worldwide Developers Conference that ZFS has become the file system in Mac OS X," said Schwartz. ZFS (Zettabyte File System), designed by Sun for its Solaris OS but licensed as open-source, is a 128-bit file storage system that features, among other things, "pooled storage," which means that users simply plug in additional drives to add space, without worrying about such traditional storage parameters as volumes or partitions. "[ZFS] eliminates volume management, it has extremely high performance It permits the failure of disk drives," crowed Schwartz during a presentation focused on Sun's new blade servers. --- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
