Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure...
At 04:40 PM 7/12/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? 1. 2. 3. ... At 04:41 PM 7/12/03 -0800, John W. Redelfs wrote: My list would be much shorter: 1. 2. 3. ... At 05:54 PM 7/12/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: I can't say I've met all your list either. If I can't say I've met all mine or all yours it looks like Jesus may have pity on me or I won't make it either. WADR, I think that anyone who thinks there is a "list" of things they are supposed to do to accomplish this is missing the point. "For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." (2 Nephi 25:23) At 11:53 PM 7/12/03 -0400, Noel B wrote: I watched a special on the biblical David last night on PBS. (By the way, it was great to see Leonard Nimoy in the part of Samuel the prophet.) They took some of the spiritual insights out of the story but one item they did leave in was that God looks at the heart. It is by our heart that he judges us. Where is your heart? Are you willing to diligently seek him? Even in an apartment? That, I think, will make the difference. Thou hast said well. I will go further and say that anyone who sets "having my calling and election made sure" as a goal is missing the point. IMO, God wants us to love Him and to do what He tells us to do ***because we love Him***. If we have any other motivation as our primary motivation, we are off-track, and perhaps are "looking beyond the mark" as did the ancient Jews. Some of the greatest spiritual experiences I have had came when I was not seeking any spiritual experience, in fact, some of them came when I was feeling like an utter failure and had no idea how to proceed. God wants us to love Him, trust Him, and follow Him, period. If we do that, we are likely to be pleasantly surprised when some of these things happen to us. (And yes, I am writing many of these things as much to myself as to anyone else.) FWIW, it has occurred to me that receiving a promise of eternal life from God may not be so much a "reward" for having lived a "perfect" life and accomplished completely everything on some checklist as perhaps God saying to that person "I trust you. You are still human and are still going to make mistakes in trying to do My will, but I know your heart, and I know that you are trying your best to serve me, so don't be afraid to do the things you think you should because you might make mistakes: they won't be fatal mistakes." My 2¢ (probably not worth that much) . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Mo
Unfortunately, the reality is that I'd have to have a temple marriage first. I'm not sure I have a shot at that anymore but at least I'm hoping like all the others who have decided to gamble on a nonmember because they love them. Stacy. At 11:53 PM 07/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: I watched a special on the biblical David last night on PBS. (By the way, it was great to see Leonard Nimoy in the part of Samuel the prophet.) They took some of the spiritual insights out of the story but one item they did leave in was that God looks at the heart. It is by our heart that he judges us. Where is your heart? Are you willing to diligently seek him? Even in an apartment? That, I think, will make the difference. Noel > -Original Message- > From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 8:46 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made > Sure and the Fact that Mos > > > All right. Let's get practical. If one hasn't the temple > marriage one > wants I suppose it's fruitless to even try for anything like > this. But if > one were to eventually get that and everything else being > equal, how would > someone do this in a modern setting? In an apartment? Do > you mean to tell > me one would have to go hunting, go to a remote region in the > mountains, > etc., to get it? And what about people who have been married > civilly, then > get divorced, etc.? Have they ever forfeited the chance to > ever have a > temple marriage and everything else? I have never been > married and then > divorced afterwards, but suppose I was? Do these things make > it impossible? > > Stacy. > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure
I think you're right probably. In the long run the work for the dead for a nonmember doesn't count for much because it's always guesswork whether anything ever happens in the spirit world. Stacy. At 12:08 AM 07/13/2003 -0500, you wrote: Stacy Smith: All right. Let's get practical. If one hasn't the temple marriage one wants I suppose it's fruitless to even try for anything like this. Larry Jackson: I believe it would take a successful temple marriage. Stacy: But if one were to eventually get that and everything else being equal, how would someone do this in a modern setting? In an apartment? Larry: Someone could do a lot of the preparation there, I think. Stacy: Do you mean to tell me one would have to go hunting, go to a remote region in the mountains, etc., to get it? Larry: Not at all. Stacy: And what about people who have been married civilly, then get divorced, etc.? Have they ever forfeited the chance to ever have a temple marriage and everything else? I have never been married and then divorced afterwards, but suppose I was? Do these things make it impossible? Larry: I don't think so. They would have to qualify for a temple marriage and be successful at it, I believe, before the additional blessings would be received. Larry Jackson The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure
Stacy Smith: All right. Let's get practical. If one hasn't the temple marriage one wants I suppose it's fruitless to even try for anything like this. Larry Jackson: I believe it would take a successful temple marriage. Stacy: But if one were to eventually get that and everything else being equal, how would someone do this in a modern setting? In an apartment? Larry: Someone could do a lot of the preparation there, I think. Stacy: Do you mean to tell me one would have to go hunting, go to a remote region in the mountains, etc., to get it? Larry: Not at all. Stacy: And what about people who have been married civilly, then get divorced, etc.? Have they ever forfeited the chance to ever have a temple marriage and everything else? I have never been married and then divorced afterwards, but suppose I was? Do these things make it impossible? Larry: I don't think so. They would have to qualify for a temple marriage and be successful at it, I believe, before the additional blessings would be received. Larry Jackson The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:41:16 -0800 "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 7. Attention to all family duties such as regular family prayer, > Family > Home Evening, food storage, genealogy and scripture study, etc. > 8. True charity towards ones fellow man including generous Fast > Offering > contributions. > 9. Enduring to the end. > > Number seven is the sticky wicket with me. Sometimes I think it > would > qualify me for having my Calling and Election Sure all by itself. > But for > all my outward observances, I am often not particularly charitable. > Very > few people would describe me as sweet or kind. I'm not particularly > humble > either. So I have to work on number seven or I'll never make it. > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Me too. I'm a bigger jerk than you and that's pretty bad! ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Mos
I watched a special on the biblical David last night on PBS. (By the way, it was great to see Leonard Nimoy in the part of Samuel the prophet.) They took some of the spiritual insights out of the story but one item they did leave in was that God looks at the heart. It is by our heart that he judges us. Where is your heart? Are you willing to diligently seek him? Even in an apartment? That, I think, will make the difference. Noel > -Original Message- > From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 8:46 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made > Sure and the Fact that Mos > > > All right. Let's get practical. If one hasn't the temple > marriage one > wants I suppose it's fruitless to even try for anything like > this. But if > one were to eventually get that and everything else being > equal, how would > someone do this in a modern setting? In an apartment? Do > you mean to tell > me one would have to go hunting, go to a remote region in the > mountains, > etc., to get it? And what about people who have been married > civilly, then > get divorced, etc.? Have they ever forfeited the chance to > ever have a > temple marriage and everything else? I have never been > married and then > divorced afterwards, but suppose I was? Do these things make > it impossible? > > Stacy. > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Mos
All right. Let's get practical. If one hasn't the temple marriage one wants I suppose it's fruitless to even try for anything like this. But if one were to eventually get that and everything else being equal, how would someone do this in a modern setting? In an apartment? Do you mean to tell me one would have to go hunting, go to a remote region in the mountains, etc., to get it? And what about people who have been married civilly, then get divorced, etc.? Have they ever forfeited the chance to ever have a temple marriage and everything else? I have never been married and then divorced afterwards, but suppose I was? Do these things make it impossible? Stacy. At 09:49 PM 07/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: This is what Enos received after his "wrestle with God" which took him into the forest for a day and night of prayer. There are a number of descriptions in the scriptures on this topic: Mosiah 4, Enos, 3Nephi 12:1-2, and one of my favorites, D&C39:6. I don't think it is the same thing. Noel -Original Message- From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 7:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most Isn't that what we seek when we take the Sacrament? Stacy. At 08:54 PM 07/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Before one's calling and election is made sure, one key step is >remission of sins through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. I >would venture that few there are that have sought after and received >this blessing that, according to 2 Nephi 31:17-18, is a requirement >before you are solidly on the "strait and narrow path which leads to >eternal life" > >King Benjamin talks about this in his last sermon also. > >What think ye? >NB >-Original Message- >From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:40 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the >Fact that Most Peop > > >I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have >one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, >including myself, >would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? > >1. A testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. >2. Belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ as God the Son, Messiah, >Redeemer and a knowledge that He died for our sins. >3. Belief and acceptance of God the Father. >4. Belief and acceptance of God the Holy Spirit. >5. Belief and acceptance of the Articles of faith as duly constituted. >6. Belief and acceptance of Joseph Smith as first modern prophet and >restitution of the gospel to the earth. >7. Belief and acceptance of all the rest of the Presidents of the >church >as prophets of God and heads of the modern church on earth. >8. Belief in the acknowledged and accepted doctrines of the church as >officially constituted, unless God should point out error Himself. 9. >Going beyond that, attendance at all pertinent meetings of the church >in one's local area whenever possible. >10. Family loyalty unless doing so would violate church standards. 11. >Love for family and friends. 12. Love for neighbors and strangers. 13. >Love for enemies. 14. Obedience to the prophet and apostles, even in >areas of hardship. 15. Loving every food that God has created? 16. It >goes without saying that a person ought to be able to have a >current temple recommend. >17. Daily study of every one of the Scriptures? >18. Daily prayer. >19. Integrity. >20. Repentance. > >I don't think this list has even scratched the surface and I've already >fallen short. See what I mean? However, some things I am in doubt >about I've put question marks on. Also points that could be mentioned >concerning >temple recommend requirements were left unsaid because I already >indicated >the person should have a temple recommend. > >Stacy. > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^==
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most
This is what Enos received after his "wrestle with God" which took him into the forest for a day and night of prayer. There are a number of descriptions in the scriptures on this topic: Mosiah 4, Enos, 3Nephi 12:1-2, and one of my favorites, D&C39:6. I don't think it is the same thing. Noel -Original Message- From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 7:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most Isn't that what we seek when we take the Sacrament? Stacy. At 08:54 PM 07/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Before one's calling and election is made sure, one key step is >remission of sins through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. I >would venture that few there are that have sought after and received >this blessing that, according to 2 Nephi 31:17-18, is a requirement >before you are solidly on the "strait and narrow path which leads to >eternal life" > >King Benjamin talks about this in his last sermon also. > >What think ye? >NB >-Original Message- >From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:40 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the >Fact that Most Peop > > >I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have >one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, >including myself, >would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? > >1. A testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. >2. Belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ as God the Son, Messiah, >Redeemer and a knowledge that He died for our sins. >3. Belief and acceptance of God the Father. >4. Belief and acceptance of God the Holy Spirit. >5. Belief and acceptance of the Articles of faith as duly constituted. >6. Belief and acceptance of Joseph Smith as first modern prophet and >restitution of the gospel to the earth. >7. Belief and acceptance of all the rest of the Presidents of the >church >as prophets of God and heads of the modern church on earth. >8. Belief in the acknowledged and accepted doctrines of the church as >officially constituted, unless God should point out error Himself. 9. >Going beyond that, attendance at all pertinent meetings of the church >in one's local area whenever possible. >10. Family loyalty unless doing so would violate church standards. 11. >Love for family and friends. 12. Love for neighbors and strangers. 13. >Love for enemies. 14. Obedience to the prophet and apostles, even in >areas of hardship. 15. Loving every food that God has created? 16. It >goes without saying that a person ought to be able to have a >current temple recommend. >17. Daily study of every one of the Scriptures? >18. Daily prayer. >19. Integrity. >20. Repentance. > >I don't think this list has even scratched the surface and I've already >fallen short. See what I mean? However, some things I am in doubt >about I've put question marks on. Also points that could be mentioned >concerning >temple recommend requirements were left unsaid because I already >indicated >the person should have a temple recommend. > >Stacy. > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most
Isn't that what we seek when we take the Sacrament? Stacy. At 08:54 PM 07/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: Before one's calling and election is made sure, one key step is remission of sins through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. I would venture that few there are that have sought after and received this blessing that, according to 2 Nephi 31:17-18, is a requirement before you are solidly on the "strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life" King Benjamin talks about this in his last sermon also. What think ye? NB -Original Message- From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most Peop I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? 1. A testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. 2. Belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ as God the Son, Messiah, Redeemer and a knowledge that He died for our sins. 3. Belief and acceptance of God the Father. 4. Belief and acceptance of God the Holy Spirit. 5. Belief and acceptance of the Articles of faith as duly constituted. 6. Belief and acceptance of Joseph Smith as first modern prophet and restitution of the gospel to the earth. 7. Belief and acceptance of all the rest of the Presidents of the church as prophets of God and heads of the modern church on earth. 8. Belief in the acknowledged and accepted doctrines of the church as officially constituted, unless God should point out error Himself. 9. Going beyond that, attendance at all pertinent meetings of the church in one's local area whenever possible. 10. Family loyalty unless doing so would violate church standards. 11. Love for family and friends. 12. Love for neighbors and strangers. 13. Love for enemies. 14. Obedience to the prophet and apostles, even in areas of hardship. 15. Loving every food that God has created? 16. It goes without saying that a person ought to be able to have a current temple recommend. 17. Daily study of every one of the Scriptures? 18. Daily prayer. 19. Integrity. 20. Repentance. I don't think this list has even scratched the surface and I've already fallen short. See what I mean? However, some things I am in doubt about I've put question marks on. Also points that could be mentioned concerning temple recommend requirements were left unsaid because I already indicated the person should have a temple recommend. Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most P
Before one's calling and election is made sure, one key step is remission of sins through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. I would venture that few there are that have sought after and received this blessing that, according to 2 Nephi 31:17-18, is a requirement before you are solidly on the "strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life" King Benjamin talks about this in his last sermon also. What think ye? NB -Original Message- From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most Peop I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? 1. A testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. 2. Belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ as God the Son, Messiah, Redeemer and a knowledge that He died for our sins. 3. Belief and acceptance of God the Father. 4. Belief and acceptance of God the Holy Spirit. 5. Belief and acceptance of the Articles of faith as duly constituted. 6. Belief and acceptance of Joseph Smith as first modern prophet and restitution of the gospel to the earth. 7. Belief and acceptance of all the rest of the Presidents of the church as prophets of God and heads of the modern church on earth. 8. Belief in the acknowledged and accepted doctrines of the church as officially constituted, unless God should point out error Himself. 9. Going beyond that, attendance at all pertinent meetings of the church in one's local area whenever possible. 10. Family loyalty unless doing so would violate church standards. 11. Love for family and friends. 12. Love for neighbors and strangers. 13. Love for enemies. 14. Obedience to the prophet and apostles, even in areas of hardship. 15. Loving every food that God has created? 16. It goes without saying that a person ought to be able to have a current temple recommend. 17. Daily study of every one of the Scriptures? 18. Daily prayer. 19. Integrity. 20. Repentance. I don't think this list has even scratched the surface and I've already fallen short. See what I mean? However, some things I am in doubt about I've put question marks on. Also points that could be mentioned concerning temple recommend requirements were left unsaid because I already indicated the person should have a temple recommend. Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most
I can't say I've met all your list either. If I can't say I've met all mine or all yours it looks like Jesus may have pity on me or I won't make it either. Stacy. At 04:41 PM 07/12/2003 -0800, you wrote: Stacy Smith favored us with: I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? My list would be much shorter: 1. A testimony that there is a God. 2. A testimony that his Son is Jesus Christ. 3. A testimony that Joseph Smith was a true prophet. 4. A testimony that the current leadership are prophets including the Church President, the Stake President, and the Bishop. 5. A current temple recommend obtained honestly. 6. Successful temple marriage. 7. Attention to all family duties such as regular family prayer, Family Home Evening, food storage, genealogy and scripture study, etc. 8. True charity towards ones fellow man including generous Fast Offering contributions. 9. Enduring to the end. Number seven is the sticky wicket with me. Sometimes I think it would qualify me for having my Calling and Election Sure all by itself. But for all my outward observances, I am often not particularly charitable. Very few people would describe me as sweet or kind. I'm not particularly humble either. So I have to work on number seven or I'll never make it. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most
Stacy Smith favored us with: I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? My list would be much shorter: 1. A testimony that there is a God. 2. A testimony that his Son is Jesus Christ. 3. A testimony that Joseph Smith was a true prophet. 4. A testimony that the current leadership are prophets including the Church President, the Stake President, and the Bishop. 5. A current temple recommend obtained honestly. 6. Successful temple marriage. 7. Attention to all family duties such as regular family prayer, Family Home Evening, food storage, genealogy and scripture study, etc. 8. True charity towards ones fellow man including generous Fast Offering contributions. 9. Enduring to the end. Number seven is the sticky wicket with me. Sometimes I think it would qualify me for having my Calling and Election Sure all by itself. But for all my outward observances, I am often not particularly charitable. Very few people would describe me as sweet or kind. I'm not particularly humble either. So I have to work on number seven or I'll never make it. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
[ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most Peop
I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? 1. A testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. 2. Belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ as God the Son, Messiah, Redeemer and a knowledge that He died for our sins. 3. Belief and acceptance of God the Father. 4. Belief and acceptance of God the Holy Spirit. 5. Belief and acceptance of the Articles of faith as duly constituted. 6. Belief and acceptance of Joseph Smith as first modern prophet and restitution of the gospel to the earth. 7. Belief and acceptance of all the rest of the Presidents of the church as prophets of God and heads of the modern church on earth. 8. Belief in the acknowledged and accepted doctrines of the church as officially constituted, unless God should point out error Himself. 9. Going beyond that, attendance at all pertinent meetings of the church in one's local area whenever possible. 10. Family loyalty unless doing so would violate church standards. 11. Love for family and friends. 12. Love for neighbors and strangers. 13. Love for enemies. 14. Obedience to the prophet and apostles, even in areas of hardship. 15. Loving every food that God has created? 16. It goes without saying that a person ought to be able to have a current temple recommend. 17. Daily study of every one of the Scriptures? 18. Daily prayer. 19. Integrity. 20. Repentance. I don't think this list has even scratched the surface and I've already fallen short. See what I mean? However, some things I am in doubt about I've put question marks on. Also points that could be mentioned concerning temple recommend requirements were left unsaid because I already indicated the person should have a temple recommend. Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Samoa Temple
John W. Redelfs wrote: President Benson said the whole Church was under condemnation because we don't properly value the Book of Mormon. Has that changed? I don't think so, but I suppose I could be wrong. When I hear glowing reports about the growth of the Church, and how well we are accepted by the world on the one hand, and hear about condemnation because of our disregard of the Book of Mormon I suffer from some cognitive dissonance. I suppose there is some resolution of the two, but on the surface they seem to contradict. = Grampa Bill comments: Can a student be doing very well in school while at the same time be facing financial ruin? Can a saint be in failing physical heath while at the same time be near having his Calling and Election made sure? Can a dictator's political and military power be near the zenith while his family life is in tatters? I believe the two reports are measuring two different matters, both important but the spiritual health of the Church as measured by its disregard of the Book of Mormon being of immeasurably greater import. Apples and Oranges... no dissonance. There's a lott'a tares in that there wheat field. Oh well, the Master will clean them (us?) out when the field is ripe. Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Samoa Temple
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:39:10 -0500 Paul Osborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > [snip] > > current > > Prophet does not necessarily mean the curse is no longer in > effect. > > > Ok, ok. No need to roast me over the coals. ;-) > > What has President Hinckley said about this stuff during his > Presidency? > Have you thought of that? > > Paul O > [EMAIL PROTECTED] How about this? D&C 58: 26 26. For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is acompelled in all things, the same is a bslothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward. val .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Samoa Temple
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:12:11 -0600 Steven Montgomery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > At 10:44 AM 7/12/2003, Paul wrote: > > >John, > > > >President Bensen is dead. What he said has no bearing anymore > regarding > >the direction and present condition of the Church, let alone the > future > >direction. This responsibility lies upon the shoulders of the > current > >leadership. > > > >If the Church is still under condemnation for not reading the Book > of > >Mormon, the Lord will tell us through his prophet. Otherwise, we > are > >collectively in the clear. > > > >Paul O > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I don't agree. The Lord, who trumps all the prophets of God, past, > present > and future, first gave this revelation in 1832. Since that time > Joseph > Smith, who was the instrument through which the revelation came is > dead and > so is every other prophet except our current living prophet. Since > Joseph > Smith is dead, are we to believe that this revelation is no longer > binding? > I don't agree with your logic. President Benson said the > condemnation was > still in effect. I believe him. Just because President Benson is > dead and > no longer around does not mean the curse is dead. Silence from our > current > Prophet does not necessarily mean the curse is no longer in effect. Ok, ok. No need to roast me over the coals. ;-) What has President Hinckley said about this stuff during his Presidency? Have you thought of that? Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Samoa Temple
At 10:44 AM 7/12/2003, Paul wrote: John, President Bensen is dead. What he said has no bearing anymore regarding the direction and present condition of the Church, let alone the future direction. This responsibility lies upon the shoulders of the current leadership. If the Church is still under condemnation for not reading the Book of Mormon, the Lord will tell us through his prophet. Otherwise, we are collectively in the clear. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't agree. The Lord, who trumps all the prophets of God, past, present and future, first gave this revelation in 1832. Since that time Joseph Smith, who was the instrument through which the revelation came is dead and so is every other prophet except our current living prophet. Since Joseph Smith is dead, are we to believe that this revelation is no longer binding? I don't agree with your logic. President Benson said the condemnation was still in effect. I believe him. Just because President Benson is dead and no longer around does not mean the curse is dead. Silence from our current Prophet does not necessarily mean the curse is no longer in effect. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The overall performance of the college graduates in the Convention of 1787 speaks forcefully for the proposition that Latin, rhetoric, philosophy, and mathematics can be a healthy fare for political heroes.Clinton Rossiter // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Samoa Temple
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:53:08 -0800 "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Noel B favored us with: > >For an answer I would have to look to God and the prophet. When I > listen > >to President Hinckley, I hear a very positive message. I have to > assume > >that each one of us must seek confirmation of that message from God > that > >we are a righteous people and have favor in His eyes. > > President Benson said the whole Church was under condemnation > because we > don't properly value the Book of Mormon. Has that changed? I don't > think > so, but I suppose I could be wrong. When I hear glowing reports > about the > growth of the Church, and how well we are accepted by the world on > the one > hand, and hear about condemnation because of our disregard of the > Book of > Mormon I suffer from some cognitive dissonance. I suppose there is > some > resolution of the two, but on the surface they seem to contradict. > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] John, President Bensen is dead. What he said has no bearing anymore regarding the direction and present condition of the Church, let alone the future direction. This responsibility lies upon the shoulders of the current leadership. If the Church is still under condemnation for not reading the Book of Mormon, the Lord will tell us through his prophet. Otherwise, we are collectively in the clear. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, Paul, You are saying that no revelation given to a dead prophet is with merit? That the warning that President Benson gave, namely that we are still under condemnation for treating the Book of Mormon lightly, is of no current relevance? Did that injunction end with his death? Were we magically released from that condemnation when he died? I suffer from the same malady that John does. I read of the warnings in the scripture and strive to rationalize the current state of affairs in the church, nation, and world. I hang on the words of our current prophet and president to help understand the gap. I have heard that 9/11 could be construed as a message that God no longer is protecting this nation. We have discussed this matter at length on this list in the past. Could there be a message in the temple fire that we, as a church, should comprehend? I still think this is a valid question. I am reminded of Israel clamoring for a king so they could be like the other nations around them. I believe this is an example of the Lord giving the people what they want to receive and hear and see. The children of Israel made a choice which effected their ability to receive the word of the Lord. Could it be that President Hinckley is constrained in what he says because we, speaking collectively, don't want to hear harsh words? I, personally, think it is very dangerous to cry "all is well" and marginalize the warnings in the scriptures to our generation. Noel B // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Samoa Temple
I think the church as a whole is paying a lot more attention to the Book of Mormon. I can't say what was happening before I joined it but I see a lot of emphasis on it. Failure to read it on an individual basis is not a collective matter. Stacy. At 11:44 AM 07/12/2003 -0500, you wrote: On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:53:08 -0800 "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Noel B favored us with: > >For an answer I would have to look to God and the prophet. When I > listen > >to President Hinckley, I hear a very positive message. I have to > assume > >that each one of us must seek confirmation of that message from God > that > >we are a righteous people and have favor in His eyes. > > President Benson said the whole Church was under condemnation > because we > don't properly value the Book of Mormon. Has that changed? I don't > think > so, but I suppose I could be wrong. When I hear glowing reports > about the > growth of the Church, and how well we are accepted by the world on > the one > hand, and hear about condemnation because of our disregard of the > Book of > Mormon I suffer from some cognitive dissonance. I suppose there is > some > resolution of the two, but on the surface they seem to contradict. > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] John, President Bensen is dead. What he said has no bearing anymore regarding the direction and present condition of the Church, let alone the future direction. This responsibility lies upon the shoulders of the current leadership. If the Church is still under condemnation for not reading the Book of Mormon, the Lord will tell us through his prophet. Otherwise, we are collectively in the clear. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Samoa Temple
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:53:08 -0800 "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Noel B favored us with: > >For an answer I would have to look to God and the prophet. When I > listen > >to President Hinckley, I hear a very positive message. I have to > assume > >that each one of us must seek confirmation of that message from God > that > >we are a righteous people and have favor in His eyes. > > President Benson said the whole Church was under condemnation > because we > don't properly value the Book of Mormon. Has that changed? I don't > think > so, but I suppose I could be wrong. When I hear glowing reports > about the > growth of the Church, and how well we are accepted by the world on > the one > hand, and hear about condemnation because of our disregard of the > Book of > Mormon I suffer from some cognitive dissonance. I suppose there is > some > resolution of the two, but on the surface they seem to contradict. > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] John, President Bensen is dead. What he said has no bearing anymore regarding the direction and present condition of the Church, let alone the future direction. This responsibility lies upon the shoulders of the current leadership. If the Church is still under condemnation for not reading the Book of Mormon, the Lord will tell us through his prophet. Otherwise, we are collectively in the clear. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Samoa Temple
Noel B favored us with: For an answer I would have to look to God and the prophet. When I listen to President Hinckley, I hear a very positive message. I have to assume that each one of us must seek confirmation of that message from God that we are a righteous people and have favor in His eyes. President Benson said the whole Church was under condemnation because we don't properly value the Book of Mormon. Has that changed? I don't think so, but I suppose I could be wrong. When I hear glowing reports about the growth of the Church, and how well we are accepted by the world on the one hand, and hear about condemnation because of our disregard of the Book of Mormon I suffer from some cognitive dissonance. I suppose there is some resolution of the two, but on the surface they seem to contradict. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Samoa Temple
Jim Cobabe: I wept when I learned of this sad news. Is something amiss in the Church, that the Lord would allow one of his temples to be destroyed? ___ It is sad, but I seriously doubt anything unusual is amiss. I think there was a construction accident. Larry Jackson Noel: When I start to get overconfident, I remind myself of Laman and Lemuel's perspective on the righteousness of the people. Quoting from 1 Nephi Chapter 17: "we know that the people who were in the land of Jerusalem were a righteous people; for they kept the statutes and judgments of the Lord, and all his commandments, according to the law of Moses; wherefore, we know that they are a righteous people." Do we, today, suffer from the same lack of visual acuity? How hard is it for us, collectively, to see the need for repentence? If I read the scriptures correctly, I see a time in the future when the parable of the ten virgins will be fulfilled (D&C 45). I read of a time when the 'vengence will come speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth... And upon my house shall it begin. (D&C 112) For an answer I would have to look to God and the prophet. When I listen to President Hinckley, I hear a very positive message. I have to assume that each one of us must seek confirmation of that message from God that we are a righteous people and have favor in His eyes. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
