RE: [ZION] Commies and Pinkos
> -Original Message-
> From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:33 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [ZION] Commies and Pinkos
>
>
> Ron Scott wrote:
> >That's fine. The politics can come later--as you gain more light and
> >knowledge . Which reminds me of a joke. Something about
> newborn mice
> >being good communists. When the commissar come back a few weeks later he
> >discovers they are not communists anymore--their eyes had opened. Or
> >something to that effect.
> >---
> >
> >Say, who are you and your pals chasing now that there aren't commies and
> >pinkos in every commode and closet?
>
> Personally, I've moved away from politics and further into the gospel. I
> know that the commies and pinkos are still there, I just don't
> care as much
> what they are doing. Maybe you could fill me in, do you think? Not that
> you were ever a commie or a pinko.<
> And if you go looking for commies and pinkos you still might be able to
> find some of them if you look in the right places:
Says you!!!
> China {For now}
> North Korea {For now}
> Cuba { Not many, not long}
> Vietnam {A few}
> Harvard {in your mind, perhaps}
> Yale {Oh please!}
> ???
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RE: [ZION] Far Right In the Church
> -Original Message- > From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:39 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [ZION] Far Right In the Church > > > Tom Matkin wrote: > > > Strawman. There are no such "far right" members still in the Church > > that > I > am aware of. And I know an awful lot of the "far > right" crowd > > being one > of > them myself. --JWR > > > >I'm only able to follow this logically if you are out of the Church now > >John. Help me understand what you are trying to say? > > I was responding to a statement by Ron that the "far right" members > listened ONLY to President Ezra Taft Benson. I know such, but they are > former Mormons who have left the Church. Those who have remained also > hearken to the other prophets such as President Hinckley, Elder Packer, > etc. I think you missed the word "such" in the above quotation. I'm not > denying that there are "far right" in the Church. I am one myself. But > "such" as hearken ONLY to Ezra Taft Benson I am not, nor do I know others > who retain their membership.< Interesting and revealing response. Freud would have a field day with you. Like so many of the "far right" we "have remained," of couple GBH and BKP, as if the latter makes the former tolerable for now, ignorinng, advertantly or inadvertantly, the fact that President Monson is next in line. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Elder Nelson and Unconditional Love
Still occurs if you happen to live along the Wasatch Front. Not as often as it used to... > -Original Message- > From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 6:16 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson and Unconditional Love > > > It must have been fun during the days when people could actually commune > with the apostles and prophet of the church. Even when one could write a > letter that must have also been done. > > Stacy. > > At 03:34 AM 11/06/2003 +, you wrote: > > > >My first assumption about Elder Nelson's article on Unconditional Love > >is that where I find problems, they are my own. I assume, absent > >sufficient evidence to the contrary, that Elder Nelson knows whereof he > >speaks, on this and many other subjects upon which he is called to teach > >and bear testimony before the Church. > > > >It strikes me that any posture short of this, lacking the opportunity > >for personal dialog with Elder Nelson, is something less than > >charitable. > > > >Little doubt, Elder Nelson would thoroughly enjoy the luxury to > >entertain open critical review of his article. We ought to invite him > >to join the discussion on this list. Perhaps he is up to debate and > >could appropriately qualify and defend his ideas. Since he cannot do > >so, it seems only fitting to leave to him the benefit of doubt. > > > >/ > / > >/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > >/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > >/ > > > > -- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > // > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > // > /// > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Far Right In the Church
Ron Scott wrote: Interesting and revealing response. Freud would have a field day with you. Like so many of the "far right" we "have remained," of couple GBH and BKP, as if the latter makes the former tolerable for now, ignorinng, advertantly or inadvertantly, the fact that President Monson is next in line. And I will be thrilled to sustain him as our new Prophet and President if he outlives President Hinckley, something that is by no means certain. Either of them could die of old age tomorrow, as could Elder Packer, for that matter. I don't know what order they will die in. Do you? --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Repentance from adultery (was: RE: Is God's Love Unconditional?)
> -Original Message- > From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 6:42 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [ZION] Repentance from adultery (was: RE: Is God's Love > Unconditional?) > > > I don't believe the sons of perdition will be few in number. I > believe we > have sufficient scriptures to prove otherwise, notwithstanding > many will go > telestial. The people that go telestial will still have to > repent in order > for that to be done. I've seen some people who would never accept Jesus > under any circumstances. These people wish to live in their > sins. Aren't > I right in suggesting that anyone who wishes to live through > eternity with > their sins will go to perdition? > > Stacy. You are not right. About anything listed above. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Wee Small Hours
You are up awfully early in the morning for a Bostonian, aren't you, Ron? It's only a quarter past midnight here in the wilds of Alaska. My oldest girl, Sara, lives there in Boston, Newton actually. Her husband is attending dental school there. BTW, over the years I've been discussing politics on the Internet I've become increasingly confused to the point that I doubt if many of your stereotypes would apply. Perhaps we could discuss the evolution of my political thought sometime. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly, soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding." (President Gordon B. Hinckley, October 2003) === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Wee Small Hours
She lives in Newton? Where do the attend church? Weston or Cambridge? Is her husband at Tufts or BC (didn't know BC had a dental school). Ron > -Original Message- > From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 4:18 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [ZION] Wee Small Hours > > > You are up awfully early in the morning for a Bostonian, aren't you, > Ron? It's only a quarter past midnight here in the wilds of Alaska. My > oldest girl, Sara, lives there in Boston, Newton actually. Her > husband is > attending dental school there. > > BTW, over the years I've been discussing politics on the Internet I've > become increasingly confused to the point that I doubt if many of your > stereotypes would apply. Perhaps we could discuss the evolution of my > political thought sometime. > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we > must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly, > soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding." (President > Gordon B. Hinckley, October 2003) > === > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > // > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > // > /// > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Far Right In the Church
> -Original Message- > From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 4:05 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [ZION] Far Right In the Church > > > Ron Scott wrote: > >Interesting and revealing response. Freud would have a field day > with you. > >Like so many of the "far right" we "have remained," of couple > GBH and BKP, > >as if the latter makes the former tolerable for now, ignorinng, > advertantly > >or inadvertantly, the fact that President Monson is next in line. > > And I will be thrilled to sustain him as our new Prophet and President if > he outlives President Hinckley, something that is by no means > certain. Either of them could die of old age tomorrow, as could Elder > Packer, for that matter. I don't know what order they will die in. Do > you? --JWR Nope, I don't. And even though President Kimball said he was bound and determined to outlive President Benson, it didn't happen. RBS // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Wee Small Hours
Ron Scott wrote: She lives in Newton? Where do the attend church? Weston or Cambridge? Is her husband at Tufts or BC (didn't know BC had a dental school). I don't know, Ron. I get the schools back there are mixed up. I just fired off an email to my daughter asking her. I'm embarrassed that I have to ask. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Wee Small Hours
> -Original Message- > From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 4:55 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [ZION] Wee Small Hours > > > Ron Scott wrote: > >She lives in Newton? Where do the attend church? Weston or > Cambridge? Is > >her husband at Tufts or BC (didn't know BC had a dental school). > > I don't know, Ron. I get the schools back there are mixed up. I just > fired off an email to my daughter asking her. I'm embarrassed > that I have > to ask. --JWR< If she lives in Newton and attends the "regular" ward for the city (as opposed to the many student wards in Cambridge) she goes ( I assume, given her relationship to you, that she's "active") to church in Weston, where I'm supposed to. Her bishop is a very good friend, Cary Hopkins. I live in a small town that is technically part of the Weston First Ward. However, because we're the only Mormon family in a tiny town (Pop. 4,000) that is on the border between the two wards we have been given the option of choosing the First or Second Ward (the one that includes the city of Newton). Both meet in the same building, the stake center for the Boston Stake. My youngest daughter attends school in Chestnut Hill, a section of Newton: hence I am in your daughter's neighborhood, more or less, every single day. What does she do while her husband attends dental school? Ron // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Commies and Pinkos
> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 3:53 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [ZION] Commies and Pinkos
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:33 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: [ZION] Commies and Pinkos
> >
> >
> > Ron Scott wrote:
> > >That's fine. The politics can come later--as you gain more light and
> > >knowledge . Which reminds me of a joke. Something about
> > newborn mice
> > >being good communists. When the commissar come back a few
> weeks later he
> > >discovers they are not communists anymore--their eyes had opened. Or
> > >something to that effect.
> > >---
> > >
> > >Say, who are you and your pals chasing now that there aren't
> commies and
> > >pinkos in every commode and closet?
> >
> > Personally, I've moved away from politics and further into the
> gospel. I
> > know that the commies and pinkos are still there, I just don't
> > care as much
> > what they are doing. Maybe you could fill me in, do you think?
> Not that
> > you were ever a commie or a pinko.<
>
> > And if you go looking for commies and pinkos you still might be able to
> > find some of them if you look in the right places:
>
> Says you!!!
>
>
> > China {For now}
> > North Korea {For now}
> > Cuba { Not many, not long}
> > Vietnam {A few}
> > Harvard {in your mind, perhaps}
> > Yale {Oh please!}
> > ???
>
P.S. You forgot:
The New York Times
Washington Post
The Council on Foreign Relations
The White House
The CIA and FBI
Rockefeller Center
Synagogues everywhere
The Mormon Tab (those musicians are indeed quite goofy and unreliable)
The Unversity of Utah
The Church Office Building
47 EST (naw, the Lord would never allow it)
BYU (naw, not as long as Lou's alive, right?)
//
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Re: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
As you know my views are based on scriptures, not quotes from authorities. There are significant disagreements between the two, as you are aware. When you raise the question expect responses. It would seem that you are asking the questions, I am not raising the issues. You seem to be seeking disagreement with the book Gospel Doctrine and with doctrinal issues generally. You seem to almost be goading me by asking the questions you do and at the same time asking for more interaction on the list, however I am apparently wrong on that. I shall be silent - unless you continue to ask. George - Original Message - From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2 > George Cobabe wrote: > >As you know, John, when you ask the question I can testify that this is > >true. However there is more to the answer than what has been presented. > > > >I would be delighted to discuss this topic with courtesy and good will, if > >that would be possible. > > If you have any information that current Church leaders support your view > that all who obtain the Celestial Kingdom inherit eternal life, I would be > interested. Otherwise, I'd rather move on to something else. I don't want > Tom Matkin leaving the list again. His views and mine are very much > mainstream as stated in GOSPEL PRINCIPLES. > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "The study of the doctrines of the Gospel will improve > behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve > behavior." --Boyd K. Packer > === > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
Thank you for your kindness in skipping the lesson. The world will be better because of the silence on this matter. George - Original Message - From: "Steven Montgomery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:11 PM Subject: RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love At 10:36 AM 11/6/2003, you wrote: > > -Original Message- > > From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:31 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love > > > Just hazarding a guess, but I suspect that most people, some on this list > > even, haven't the foggiest idea what the John Birch Society is really > > about. All they know about it is what they've heard on TV, radio or the > > newspapers. Or perhaps from Secular Humanist College Professors . > >Well, by all means, clue them in as to what they've been missing. Be sure to >show how it correlates neatly with Mormon teachings. > >Ron Nah. I won't bother. Those who are really interested will find out. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those of us who take note of and criticize abuses of power by the federal bureaucracy are often accused of being "anti-government." This is not only untrue, it is the exact opposite of the truth. The John Birch Society and those who share our constitutionalist point of view are emphatically pro-government so much so, in fact, that we want to see as many governments as possible dividing power and responsibilities, and keeping each other in check. What we oppose is the alternative the effective abolition of local, county, and state governments and their absorption into a monolithic federal state, which in turn would ultimately be subsumed into a global leviathan directed by the United Nations.--WNG The Review of the News Oct 13, 2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Repentance from adultery (was: RE: Is God's Love Unconditional?)
Boy o Boy, that is certainly a response designed to continue discussion. It is interesting that the best you can offer is a complete denial that Stacy had anything useful to say and without and justification on your part. Not even a disclaimer that you uinderstand it differently, but jsut a dismissal. There are so many things that are just "obviously" bad and wrong aren't there. Most of which can be dismissed as easily as you have her questions, unless of course one wants to think it through and perhaps come up with a more useful response. I, of course, with this response can be accused of doing the very thing I condemn in your response. George - Original Message - From: "Ron Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 2:15 AM Subject: RE: [ZION] Repentance from adultery (was: RE: Is God's Love Unconditional?) > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 6:42 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: [ZION] Repentance from adultery (was: RE: Is God's Love > > Unconditional?) > > > > > > I don't believe the sons of perdition will be few in number. I > > believe we > > have sufficient scriptures to prove otherwise, notwithstanding > > many will go > > telestial. The people that go telestial will still have to > > repent in order > > for that to be done. I've seen some people who would never accept Jesus > > under any circumstances. These people wish to live in their > > sins. Aren't > > I right in suggesting that anyone who wishes to live through > > eternity with > > their sins will go to perdition? > > > > Stacy. > > You are not right. About anything listed above. > > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
At 11:28 AM 11/6/2003 -0900, BLT wrote: Eternal Marriage Is Essential for Exaltation Many people in the world consider marriage to be only a social custom, a legal agreement between a man and a woman to live together. But to Latter-day Saints, marriage is much more. Our exaltation depends on marriage. We believe that marriage is the most sacred relationship that can exist between a man and a woman. This sacred relationship affects our happiness now and in the eternities. Heavenly Father has given us the law of eternal marriage so we can become like him. We must live this law to be able to have spirit children. The Lord has said: "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it (D&C 131:1-3)." --- Anyone disagree that this is official Church doctrine? Our missionaries teach it to investigators and it is taught to all new members as part of the Gospel Essentials Sunday School class. Is this controversial, or what? Are any of the Brethren divided on this? This, IMHO, is what we have to offer the world. This is what sets us apart from the other "religions" This is the essence of the gospel. The other things all point to this. There are other requirements along the way, but that's just the point, they're along the way. Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Commies and Pinkos
At 03:32 PM 11/6/2003 -0900, BLT wrote: And if you go looking for commies and pinkos you still might be able to find some of them if you look in the right places: China North Korea Cuba Vietnam Harvard Yale ??? Cornell! Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] blood red moon
Hello all... I read a bit on cnn.com this morning about the upcoming lunar eclipse this weekend and how the moon is supposed to turn blood red. To quote the article: "Saturday's lunar eclipse will be followed by the Leonid meteor shower, a total solar eclipse over the southern hemisphere -- and a chance for more auroras if the sun stays active. Another eruption Tuesday on the sun ranked among the most intense solar events ever recorded. But the explosion was aimed away from Earth, meaning it would have little impact here. " What think ye? Do you think this *means* anything? Just curious... Heidi the fair // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] An Illustrious Group
At 05:31 PM 11/6/2003 -0900, BLT wrote: Tom Valletta has just joined us. Yofi, Welcome home Br'er Tom. Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
At 03:44 PM 11/6/2003 -0900, BLT wrote: George Cobabe wrote: As you know, John, when you ask the question I can testify that this is true. However there is more to the answer than what has been presented. I would be delighted to discuss this topic with courtesy and good will, if that would be possible. If you have any information that current Church leaders support your view that all who obtain the Celestial Kingdom inherit eternal life, I would be interested. Otherwise, I'd rather move on to something else. I don't want Tom Matkin leaving the list again. His views and mine are very much mainstream as stated in GOSPEL PRINCIPLES. I find D&C 132 to be quite clear on this subject. I'll sit quietly in the John and Tom camp, thank you. Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
At 02:36 AM 11/7/2003 +, Gib Mij wrote: Many of us take it seriously too. As a single man I am working on addressing this concern as quickly as sanity and comfort can afford. I have discovered that it is not an easy thing for an older man. My friend, just care about all those around you, love them without any ulterior motives, do nice things for them without expectation of reward and one day one will love back. Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Commies and Pinkos
Oh no. Is this a confession? > > Cornell! > > Till Tom the concerned. ;-> > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] An Illustrious Group
Thanks. Excited to be listening in. From: Jim Cobabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] An Illustrious Group Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 04:59:10 + John W. Redelfs wrote: > > Tom Valletta has just joined us. > Welcome, Tom! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / _ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] An Illustrious Group
Ah, but I miss the lush hills of Ithaca!!! And the great people too. From: "Elmer L. Fairbank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ZION] An Illustrious Group Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:13:50 -0500 At 05:31 PM 11/6/2003 -0900, BLT wrote: Tom Valletta has just joined us. Yofi, Welcome home Br'er Tom. Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / _ From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] An Illustrious Group
At 07:52 AM 11/7/2003 -0700, Br'er Tom wrote: Ah, but I miss the lush hills of Ithaca!!! And the great people too. Did you say we're lushes here? The Hill's moved to Provo years ago, although he WAS back for a visit this summer. It IS pretty country here, though. Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Commies and Pinkos
At 07:31 AM 11/7/2003 -0700, Br'er Tom wrote: Oh no. Is this a confession? > > Cornell! > > Till Tom the concerned. ;-> When my 5th son was an undergraduate here, he used to complain all the time about some of his left-wing, commie professors, with their touchy-feely pseudo-intellectual clap-trap. It was a treat to listen to him. But then he calls his mother a socialist, too. Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] A reading list
I'm sorry to rain on everyone's parade. I see that many people (Benjoy discussing the gospel. I do not qualify to join such (Bdiscussions. I just don't have the knowledge everyone else has. (BSo I decided to start a new thread. In the past, my efforts have (Bhad mixed results. At times I have started threads that have (Blasted weeks. Other times my post seems to be the only one, so I (Bsuppose it could not even be called a thread. We shall see how (Bthis one works out. Please forgive the lightheartedness. (B (BI was just wondering what everyone is reading these days. I'm (Bcurrently working my way through Red Rabbit by Tom Clancy. I had (Bdecided to read the Iliad and the Odyssey, but I didn't get too (Bfar before I realized that I will need to get the Cliff Notes to (Bgo with that. My little brain just doesn't function that well. (BLuckily I will be heading for Savannah next month so I plan to (Bpick it up then. I'm thinking of reading Contact by Carl Sagan (Bnext. I really enjoyed the movie, and I can't imagine anyone (Bhaving seen that movie without being convinced that there is life (Bout there beyond the confines of the earth. (B (BSo does anyone care to share what they are reading these days? (BOr their thoughts on life in outer space? I'm kind of angry at (Bmyself. Astute readers will notice that I have a new e-mail (Baddress. I also have a new computer. I downloaded the SETI (Bprogram, but when I tried to add on to my previous SETI total (Bthey asked for my password. I have no idea, and since they only (Bsend the password to the old address (which has since been (Bcancelled), I'm out of luck. I had over 400 completed work (Bunits, and had to start over. I'm at about 90 now. One good (Bthing, my new computer whips through those work units between two (Band three times as fast as my old computer. (B (BAnyway, I ask again, what are you guys reading? (B (BCousin Bill (B[EMAIL PROTECTED] (B"Our country, right or wrong. When (Bright, to be kept right. When wrong, (Bto be put right." -- Carl Schurz (B (B// (B/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// (B/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// (B/ (B--^ (BThis email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (BEASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 (BOr send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (BTOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! (Bhttp://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html (B--^
Re: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
That's fine, Till. However I do not think you know the question in mind. You see, I find Sec 132 more that supportative and I believe it to be true as well. It is the scriptures, including 132, that I find supportive. George - Original Message - From: "Elmer L. Fairbank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2 > At 03:44 PM 11/6/2003 -0900, BLT wrote: > >George Cobabe wrote: > >>As you know, John, when you ask the question I can testify that this is > >>true. However there is more to the answer than what has been presented. > >> > >>I would be delighted to discuss this topic with courtesy and good will, if > >>that would be possible. > > > >If you have any information that current Church leaders support your view > >that all who obtain the Celestial Kingdom inherit eternal life, I would be > >interested. Otherwise, I'd rather move on to something else. I don't > >want Tom Matkin leaving the list again. His views and mine are very much > >mainstream as stated in GOSPEL PRINCIPLES. > > > I find D&C 132 to be quite clear on this subject. I'll sit quietly in the > John and Tom camp, thank you. > > Till > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] A reading list
Ah - a topic that will not engender evil emotions. (B (BI just finished reading "By the Hand of Mormon" by Terryl Givens. A (Bexcellant book regarding the history and perspectives of the Book of Mormon (Bfrom historical as well as non-mormon perspective. Chapter Eight on (B"Dialogic Revelation" and the Book of Mormon's application of the principles (Bwas truly eye-opening. (B (BI have just started "Restoring the Ancient Church, Joseph Smith and Early (BChristianity" By Barry Bickmore. It looks at the early Christian Church (Band describes how it was corrupted and then how the early doctrines compare (Bso favorably with our current doctrines. It looks very good. (B (BGeorge (B (B (B- Original Message - (BFrom: "Cousin Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (BTo: "ZION" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (BSent: Friday, November 07, 2003 8:01 AM (BSubject: [ZION] A reading list (B (B (B> I'm sorry to rain on everyone's parade. I see that many people (B> enjoy discussing the gospel. I do not qualify to join such (B> discussions. I just don't have the knowledge everyone else has. (B> So I decided to start a new thread. In the past, my efforts have (B> had mixed results. At times I have started threads that have (B> lasted weeks. Other times my post seems to be the only one, so I (B> suppose it could not even be called a thread. We shall see how (B> this one works out. Please forgive the lightheartedness. (B> (B> I was just wondering what everyone is reading these days. I'm (B> currently working my way through Red Rabbit by Tom Clancy. I had (B> decided to read the Iliad and the Odyssey, but I didn't get too (B> far before I realized that I will need to get the Cliff Notes to (B> go with that. My little brain just doesn't function that well. (B> Luckily I will be heading for Savannah next month so I plan to (B> pick it up then. I'm thinking of reading Contact by Carl Sagan (B> next. I really enjoyed the movie, and I can't imagine anyone (B> having seen that movie without being convinced that there is life (B> out there beyond the confines of the earth. (B> (B> So does anyone care to share what they are reading these days? (B> Or their thoughts on life in outer space? I'm kind of angry at (B> myself. Astute readers will notice that I have a new e-mail (B> address. I also have a new computer. I downloaded the SETI (B> program, but when I tried to add on to my previous SETI total (B> they asked for my password. I have no idea, and since they only (B> send the password to the old address (which has since been (B> cancelled), I'm out of luck. I had over 400 completed work (B> units, and had to start over. I'm at about 90 now. One good (B> thing, my new computer whips through those work units between two (B> and three times as fast as my old computer. (B> (B> Anyway, I ask again, what are you guys reading? (B> (B> Cousin Bill (B> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B> "Our country, right or wrong. When (B> right, to be kept right. When wrong, (B> to be put right." -- Carl Schurz (B> (B> (B (B// (B> /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// (B> /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// (B> (B (B/ (B> (B> (B> (B> (B (B// (B/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// (B/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// (B/ (B--^ (BThis email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (BEASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 (BOr send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (BTOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! (Bhttp://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html (B--^
[ZION] Getting Married Older [was Official Doctrine #2]
On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 02:36:29 + Jim Cobabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > John W. Redelfs wrote: > --- > Would that all the single men in the Church were as devoted to > keeping the commandment to marry as seriously as you did and do. > --- > > Many of us take it seriously too. As a single man I am working on > addressing this concern as quickly as sanity and comfort can afford. > I have discovered that it is not an easy thing for an older man. It's even harder for an older (middle-aged) widow. I wouldn't mind finding a time-only companion. But it seems that the widowers in the church want to be sealed to another woman, instead of finding one who is already sealed. At my bishop's behest I tried LDSPlanet for a couple of months. Profiles of widowers, majority, want to be sealed again to wife #2. I can't compete with that, so I don't even try. At this point, I'm content to live alone. val > > / / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
George Cobabe wrote: > > There are those on this list that in the past have argued that Eternal > Marriage is NOT essential for exaltation. Exaltation is living in the > presence of God the Father and receiving His blessings. Yet it is > suggested > that to live in the Celestial Kingdom it is not necessary to have an > Eternal > Marriage. Still, it's possible to be in the Celestial Kingdom and NOT be exalted. I think that's where the misunderstanding among members comes in. D&C 131 indicates that temple marriage is needed for the *highest degree* of the Celestial Kingdom. On the basis of that scripture, it does appear that a single person might be able to enter at the lowest degree. But the lower degrees of the Celestial Kingdom represent a type of eternal damnation. Yes, persons designated for that place can be in the presence of both the Father and the Son, but exaltation goes beyond being in their presence, and means becoming as God in all things, up to and including godhood. If you can receive a degree of Celestial Glory, yet be unable to attain the status of godhood (being designated, for instance, as a ministering angel), then by definition, one's progression stops and damnation occurs. Still, in practical terms, I don't know how likely it would be for a single person to reach the lower degrees of the Celestial Kingdom. For if someone desires to enter into the covenant, makes the needed sacrifices, yet cannot locate a suitable companion, teachings indicate that provision will be made later in the post-mortal existance. At the other extreme, someone who goes out of their way to avoid temple marriage could be judged as being rebellious or disobedient...perhaps the judgment might even be in the direction of the Terrestrial Kingdom? In the middle, I suppose, are those individuals who seek to be obedient in the Gospel in most things, yet don't care one way or the other about temple marriage. Then they die without being sealed to a companion, realizing too late that they should have given the matter greater attention. They might have been exalted, but for their diligence in seeking an eternal companion. I suspect it would be these individuals who would become the ministering angels in the lower Celestial rhelms. (But would there be that many?) Even so, all this would be my personal speculation. All the best, /Sandy/ -- The Rabinowitz Family, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Spring Hill, Tennessee // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] HELP
Somehow I misplaced the address for the website, where I can read posts on line. Would you please forward the address to me when you get a moment. Ron Scott // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] HELP
Try-- http://www.topica.com/lists/zion/read Ron Scott wrote: > > > Somehow I misplaced the address for the website, where I can read posts > on > line. Would you please forward the address to me when you get a moment. -- The Rabinowitz Family, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Spring Hill, Tennessee // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
I suspect we shall soon be kicked off for daring to discuss this, but what the hey. Where in 131 does it say this? I read Celestial Glory, not the Celestial Kingdom. However in 132:23-24 it talks about receiving and living with God and that this living with God is what exaltation is defined as. Living with God should not be construed as damnation, as you have ably pointed out that it may represent. Why would the atonement not make up for any deficiencies that are present in a person worthy to attain to the Celestial Kingdom? What could a worthy person do to not qualify for the atonement in their lives so that they would have full exaltation? Well John, when I came back I said I would repond to questions asked. Happy to leave if this bothers or scares you. George - Original Message - From: "Sandy and Melinda Rabinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 8:48 AM Subject: RE: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2 > George Cobabe wrote: > > > > There are those on this list that in the past have argued that Eternal > > Marriage is NOT essential for exaltation. Exaltation is living in the > > presence of God the Father and receiving His blessings. Yet it is > > suggested > > that to live in the Celestial Kingdom it is not necessary to have an > > Eternal > > Marriage. > > Still, it's possible to be in the Celestial Kingdom and NOT be exalted. > I think that's where the misunderstanding among members comes in. D&C > 131 indicates that temple marriage is needed for the *highest degree* of > the Celestial Kingdom. On the basis of that scripture, it does appear > that a single person might be able to enter at the lowest degree. > > But the lower degrees of the Celestial Kingdom represent a type of > eternal damnation. Yes, persons designated for that place can be in the > presence of both the Father and the Son, but exaltation goes beyond > being in their presence, and means becoming as God in all things, up to > and including godhood. If you can receive a degree of Celestial Glory, > yet be unable to attain the status of godhood (being designated, for > instance, as a ministering angel), then by definition, one's progression > stops and damnation occurs. > > Still, in practical terms, I don't know how likely it would be for a > single person to reach the lower degrees of the Celestial Kingdom. For > if someone desires to enter into the covenant, makes the needed > sacrifices, yet cannot locate a suitable companion, teachings indicate > that provision will be made later in the post-mortal existance. At the > other extreme, someone who goes out of their way to avoid temple > marriage could be judged as being rebellious or disobedient...perhaps > the judgment might even be in the direction of the Terrestrial Kingdom? > In the middle, I suppose, are those individuals who seek to be obedient > in the Gospel in most things, yet don't care one way or the other about > temple marriage. Then they die without being sealed to a companion, > realizing too late that they should have given the matter greater > attention. They might have been exalted, but for their diligence in > seeking an eternal companion. I suspect it would be these individuals > who would become the ministering angels in the lower Celestial rhelms. > (But would there be that many?) Even so, all this would be my personal > speculation. > > All the best, > /Sandy/ > > -- > The Rabinowitz Family, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Spring Hill, Tennessee > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
At 04:58 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote: > -Original Message- > From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 6:20 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love > > > At 03:37 PM 11/6/2003, Ron Scott wrote: > > > >President Benson was good enough for me. His politics were not. For > >additional comments, see my response to your fellow traveler. > > > >Ron Scott > > That's fine. The politics can come later--as you gain more light and > knowledge . Which reminds me of a joke. Something about > newborn mice > being good communists. When the commissar come back a few weeks later he > discovers they are not communists anymore--their eyes had opened. Or > something to that effect. Say, who are you and your pals chasing now that there aren't commies and pinkos in every commode and closet? What!? You mean there aren't any now? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The only constant in the world is change--Karl Marx // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] HELP
Thanks Sandy. Friends: For a number of pressing reasons, I am retreating (for the time being) to to lurkdom, "read at the website only-- no email." If you wish my response on a particular subject, please cc me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Be well and be careful. Ron Scott // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Nehors - was: Unconditional Love
At 05:52 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote: Ron Scott wrote: > I'm pretty sure there are some Korihors and wolves in sheep's > clothing. Ezra Taft Benson said so. --JWR He did? When? Was he eyeballing his son? Maybe he was eyeballing his grandson, Steve. --JWR Rotfl -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] We will not despair, for the cause of human freedom is the cause of God. --Joshua R. Giddings // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Catholics and Mormons Unite
I would rephrase the "only true church" to the "only church with a fulness of the gospel." At least, that's what the definition seems to me. After all, any church with some truth could be defined as a "true church." Where other churches have truths, we seek to share in those truths with them. When Catholic Charities helps out a nation, we often combine resources with them, because it reduces overhead expenses, and the outcome of goodness is the same. As we help other churches (helping them build buildings, etc), we are encouraging religious belief in God, which is one step further toward people accepting the fulness of the gospel. Gary Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:14:18 -0900 From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [ZION] Catholics & Mormons unite Stacy Smith wrote: >I understand all of the above, however, I go back to Joseph Smith in which >he was commanded "to join none of them." Helping them on some project may >appear to be wonderful, but doesn't it suggest to some who have gotten >mixed signals that we no longer hold the doctrine of the restoration of >the gospel true? My friend got such a mixed message while studying with >the missionaries. This is a concern that I have, probably a futile concern. How can we teach 1) that all the other churches contain some truth, and 2) that we are the only true church? The two statements are not incompatible, but they might easily be confused by those of inadequate education. --JWR -- K'aya K'ama Gerald Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/ Freedom Forever // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
At 07:36 PM 11/6/2003, you wrote: John W. Redelfs wrote: --- Would that all the single men in the Church were as devoted to keeping the commandment to marry as seriously as you did and do. --- Many of us take it seriously too. As a single man I am working on addressing this concern as quickly as sanity and comfort can afford. I have discovered that it is not an easy thing for an older man. As one who didn't find his wife till somewhat later in life I empathize with you. I sincerely hope and pray that you find a good woman. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is no accident, then, that so many who gathered at Philadelphia to declare independence and a decade later to draft a constitution were men who had apprenticed themselves to Thucydides, Plato, Aristotle, Polybius, and Cicero, and who could debate at length on the various constitutional forms of the classical world before they chose one for the new American nation. We owe our very existence as a people in great part to classical learning.T. L. Simmons // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Welcom Tom Valleta
Tom, Welcome back to Zion. How was your mission? What does the Church have you doing now? K'aya K'ama Gerald Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/ Freedom Forever // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Repentance from adultery
The definition given of a Son of Perdition is a person who has received a high level of understanding of the gospel, then not only fully denies it, but seeks to commit evil. Cain is the perfect example. He held the priesthood, spoke with God, then turned completely against God. It isn't a matter of someone refusing to repent of some sins. It is a matter of becoming God's total enemy, which most people in the world will never do. Even most murderers and adulterers keep some commandments and believe in God. They don't totally reject the light and truth, since they have not received a fulness of that light and truth, so they could never become a son of perdition. I would venture that of the 11+ million members in the Church today, less than 25,000 are spiritual and enlightened enough to ever risk being a son of perdition. And there are no non-members that could ever qualify. In fact, the only person we know of a surety is a son of perdition is Cain. Even Judas Iscariot probably did not qualify, as he had not received the Gift of the Holy Ghost and a true conversion. There will be, as I understand it, a major gathering of sons of perdition at the end of the Millennium, as Satan gathers his people out from those with a full witness of Christ. But in all reality, most of those choosing to be sons of perdition, chose to do so prior to this world. K'aya K'ama Gerald Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/ Freedom Forever Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:42:24 -0600 From: Stacy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [ZION] Repentance from adultery (was: RE: Is God's Love Unconditional?) I don't believe the sons of perdition will be few in number. I believe we have sufficient scriptures to prove otherwise, notwithstanding many will go telestial. The people that go telestial will still have to repent in order for that to be done. I've seen some people who would never accept Jesus under any circumstances. These people wish to live in their sins. Aren't I right in suggesting that anyone who wishes to live through eternity with their sins will go to perdition? Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] blood red moon
Well, one way to interpret D&C 87 as the slaves that rise up against their masters who are disciplined in war, to mean the fall of Socialism; with the remnant of the slaves rising up against the Gentile nations being the Muslim terrorism attacks. When that occurs, the D&C says there will begin to be many signs in the heavens and natural destructions. So, if that interpretation is correct, we may see some interesting times ahead. Oh, stand in holy places, eh? Gary Smith Heidi Page wrote: > > Hello all... > > I read a bit on cnn.com this morning about the upcoming lunar eclipse > this weekend and how the moon is supposed to turn blood red. To quote > the article: "Saturday's lunar eclipse will be followed by the Leonid > meteor shower, a total solar eclipse over the southern hemisphere -- and > a chance for more auroras if the sun stays active. Another eruption > Tuesday on the sun ranked among the most intense solar events ever > recorded. But the explosion was aimed away from Earth, meaning it would > have little impact here. " > > What think ye? Do you think this *means* anything? > > Just curious... > Heidi the fair Gerald (Gary) Smith geraldsmith@ juno.com http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] A reading list
From: Cousin Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ZION <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [ZION] A reading list Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 00:01:36 +0900 So does anyone care to share what they are reading these days? Read Ann Coulter _Treason_ and _Slander_... Read _Shut Up and Sing!_ by Laura Ingraham. Read When Character was King, by Noonan. In gospel books: _Joseph Smith_ by Remini and the new edition of _Joseph Smith's New England Heritage_ by Anderson... It's tough to say this, because it sounds so trite -- I loved them all. _ Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] A reading list
I'm currently reading this note you sent. ;-) I'm also involved in "how to write science fiction and fantasy" by our own Orson Scott Card; and "The Book of J" edited by Harold Bloom. Gary Cousin Bill wrote: > > I'm sorry to rain on everyone's parade. I see that many people > enjoy discussing the gospel. I do not qualify to join such > discussions. I just don't have the knowledge everyone else has. > So I decided to start a new thread. In the past, my efforts have > had mixed results. At times I have started threads that have > lasted weeks. Other times my post seems to be the only one, so I > suppose it could not even be called a thread. We shall see how > this one works out. Please forgive the lightheartedness. > > I was just wondering what everyone is reading these days. I'm > currently working my way through Red Rabbit by Tom Clancy. I had > decided to read the Iliad and the Odyssey, but I didn't get too > far before I realized that I will need to get the Cliff Notes to > go with that. My little brain just doesn't function that well. > Luckily I will be heading for Savannah next month so I plan to > pick it up then. I'm thinking of reading Contact by Carl Sagan > next. I really enjoyed the movie, and I can't imagine anyone > having seen that movie without being convinced that there is life > out there beyond the confines of the earth. > > So does anyone care to share what they are reading these days? > Or their thoughts on life in outer space? I'm kind of angry at > myself. Astute readers will notice that I have a new e-mail > address. I also have a new computer. I downloaded the SETI > program, but when I tried to add on to my previous SETI total > they asked for my password. I have no idea, and since they only > send the password to the old address (which has since been > cancelled), I'm out of luck. I had over 400 completed work > units, and had to start over. I'm at about 90 now. One good > thing, my new computer whips through those work units between two > and three times as fast as my old computer. > > Anyway, I ask again, what are you guys reading? > > Cousin Bill > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Our country, right or wrong. When > right, to be kept right. When wrong, > to be put right." -- Carl Schurz > > Gerald (Gary) Smith geraldsmith@ juno.com http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] One leads to another...
George Cobabe wrote: > > Boy o Boy, that is certainly a response designed to continue discussion. > It > is interesting that the best you can offer is a complete denial that > Stacy > had anything useful to say and without and justification on your part. > Not > even a disclaimer that you uinderstand it differently, but jsut a > dismissal. One ad-hominem leads to another. Perhaps we could anticipate where this is leading, and just skip the ending. Whether or not you find the bloom in list traffic personally gratifying, I am certain we could all benefit from a higher intellectual level of exchange, even when we cannot resist slinging invectives. My best insults nearly always pass virtually unrecognized over the heads of the intended recipients. I most enjoy the passive-aggressive attack. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Welcom Tom Valleta
From: Gerald Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom, Welcome back to Zion. How was your mission? What does the Church have you doing now? Loved the mission. Hardest thing I've ever done, but I loved the experience. I love New York. I miss the missionaries something awful!!! My current calling is to teach an adult class for our stake on "ancient scripture." I'm also a home teacher. _ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
At 08:20 AM 11/7/2003 -0700, St George wrote: That's fine, Till. However I do not think you know the question in mind. You see, I find Sec 132 more that supportative and I believe it to be true as well. It is the scriptures, including 132, that I find supportive. With all due respect, my friend, I was referring specifically to the part where it says, with regards to those who have celestial marriage AND have been sealed by the holy spirit of promise, "then shall they be gods", as opposed to those who have not. Of them. IIRC, it is said, "and that shall be the end of their glory" or some such. Are we just talking past each other on semantics? I take exaltation et al to mean the former of these two scenarios. Elsewhere in the scriptures I recall reading that damnation is defined as having one's progression ended. Certainly, I would concede, that to be a servant in the house of the most high would be far better than being a prince in a lesser kingdom, but still, it IS a cessation of progression. Till, who has said his piece // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] A reading list
At 08:28 AM 11/7/2003 -0700, St George wrote: Ah - a topic that will not engender evil emotions. I just finished reading "By the Hand of Mormon" by Terryl Givens. A excellant book regarding the history and perspectives of the Book of Mormon from historical as well as non-mormon perspective. Chapter Eight on "Dialogic Revelation" and the Book of Mormon's application of the principles was truly eye-opening. I have just started "Restoring the Ancient Church, Joseph Smith and Early Christianity" By Barry Bickmore. It looks at the early Christian Church and describes how it was corrupted and then how the early doctrines compare so favorably with our current doctrines. It looks very good. Cool. Terry and his wife Fiona were in our ward years ago. I ran into her at Education week in '02. She was buying a copy of his latest book. 8>)) Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Wee Small Hours
Ron Scott wrote: If she lives in Newton and attends the "regular" ward for the city (as opposed to the many student wards in Cambridge) she goes ( I assume, given her relationship to you, that she's "active") to church in Weston, where I'm supposed to. Her bishop is a very good friend, Cary Hopkins. I live in a small town that is technically part of the Weston First Ward. However, because we're the only Mormon family in a tiny town (Pop. 4,000) that is on the border between the two wards we have been given the option of choosing the First or Second Ward (the one that includes the city of Newton). Both meet in the same building, the stake center for the Boston Stake. My youngest daughter attends school in Chestnut Hill, a section of Newton: hence I am in your daughter's neighborhood, more or less, every single day. What does she do while her husband attends dental school? She is in nursing school, and hopes to graduate in April. She and her husband are also live in student nannies for some children in the area. To hear her tell it, she is more busy than a one armed paper hanger with the hives. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Getting Married Older [was Official Doctrine #2]
Valerie Nielsen Williams wrote: It's even harder for an older (middle-aged) widow. I wouldn't mind finding a time-only companion. But it seems that the widowers in the church want to be sealed to another woman, instead of finding one who is already sealed. At my bishop's behest I tried LDSPlanet for a couple of months. Profiles of widowers, majority, want to be sealed again to wife #2. I can't compete with that, so I don't even try. At this point, I'm content to live alone. President Hunter married his second wife for time only because she was already sealed to another. So did the father of the man who ordained me a high priest. In fact, he married a second wife for time only, and when she died he married a third wife for time only. Not all of the men in the Church are into plural marriage beyond the grave, at least not so you would notice in their behavior as widowers. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] HELP
Ron Scott wrote: Somehow I misplaced the address for the website, where I can read posts on line. Would you please forward the address to me when you get a moment. http://topica.com/lists/zion/read // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Wee Small Hours
At 05:48 AM 11/7/2003 -0500, Uncle Ron wrote: My youngest daughter attends school in Chestnut Hill, a section of Newton: Ah, yes, nice school. We (meaning Ithaca Ballet**) have one of our girls gong there this year, Dasha Kittridge, as a drama major. A marvelously talented and beautiful young lady. Till ** (Schindlerian footnote) I decided the best way to repay all the kindness they did for my family was to serve on the board of directors AFTER my kids were out of there. They've gone and made me president now, which means I get to control how long (or short) the meetings are. So I still have a direct interest in the students there. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Wee Small Hours
> -Original Message- > From: Elmer L. Fairbank [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 1:42 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [ZION] Wee Small Hours > > > At 05:48 AM 11/7/2003 -0500, Uncle Ron wrote: > > My > >youngest daughter attends school in Chestnut Hill, a section of Newton: > > > Ah, yes, nice school. We (meaning Ithaca Ballet**) have one of our girls > gong there this year, Dasha Kittridge, as a drama major. A marvelously > talented and beautiful young lady. Chestnut Hill? Drama major? CHS is a private elementary school. I wasn't aware we had "drama" majors. Might you be thinking of a college in Chestnut Hill? > > Till > > ** (Schindlerian footnote) I decided the best way to repay all > the kindness > they did for my family was to serve on the board of directors > AFTER my kids > were out of there. They've gone and made me president now, which means I > get to control how long (or short) the meetings are. So I still have a > direct interest in the students there.< Then you've probably heard that, for now at least, The Wang Center has booted out "The Nutcracker" beginning next Christmas, 2004. A touring company of the Radio City Rockettes has taken the dates. The city is in an uproar, as you might imagine. I mean, Boston ain't exactly Las Vegas. Ron // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Getting Married Older [was Official Doctrine #2]
Val, What age range are you looking for in a guy? Maybe a few of us could look for potential candidates in our areas for you. Gary Valerie Nielsen Williams wrote: > > > On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 02:36:29 + Jim Cobabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > > > > John W. Redelfs wrote: > > --- > > Would that all the single men in the Church were as devoted to > > keeping the commandment to marry as seriously as you did and do. > > --- > > > > Many of us take it seriously too. As a single man I am working on > > addressing this concern as quickly as sanity and comfort can afford. > > I have discovered that it is not an easy thing for an older man. > > It's even harder for an older (middle-aged) widow. I wouldn't mind > finding a time-only companion. But it seems that the widowers in the > church want to be sealed to another woman, instead of finding one who is > already sealed. At my bishop's behest I tried LDSPlanet for a couple of > months. Profiles of widowers, majority, want to be sealed again to wife > #2. I can't compete with that, so I don't even try. At this point, I'm > content to live alone. > > val > > > > > / > > / > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. > «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Gerald (Gary) Smith geraldsmith@ juno.com http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] A reading list
I have Barry's book. It is very good, with one exception. I think the Baptism for the Dead section is a little weak. But that isn't through any fault of his. The reality is, there isn't much ancient information whatsoever on baptisms for the dead. His stuff on an anthropomorphic God is excellent, but I would have included a little bit more information from his sources in that area. Gary George Cobabe wrote: > > Ah - a topic that will not engender evil emotions. > > I just finished reading "By the Hand of Mormon" by Terryl Givens. A > excellant book regarding the history and perspectives of the Book of > Mormon > from historical as well as non-mormon perspective. Chapter Eight on > "Dialogic Revelation" and the Book of Mormon's application of the > principles > was truly eye-opening. > > I have just started "Restoring the Ancient Church, Joseph Smith and > Early > Christianity" By Barry Bickmore. It looks at the early Christian > Church > and describes how it was corrupted and then how the early doctrines > compare > so favorably with our current doctrines. It looks very good. > > George > > > - Original Message - > From: "Cousin Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "ZION" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 8:01 AM > Subject: [ZION] A reading list > > > > I'm sorry to rain on everyone's parade. I see that many people > > enjoy discussing the gospel. I do not qualify to join such > > discussions. I just don't have the knowledge everyone else has. > > So I decided to start a new thread. In the past, my efforts have > > had mixed results. At times I have started threads that have > > lasted weeks. Other times my post seems to be the only one, so I > > suppose it could not even be called a thread. We shall see how > > this one works out. Please forgive the lightheartedness. > > > > I was just wondering what everyone is reading these days. I'm > > currently working my way through Red Rabbit by Tom Clancy. I had > > decided to read the Iliad and the Odyssey, but I didn't get too > > far before I realized that I will need to get the Cliff Notes to > > go with that. My little brain just doesn't function that well. > > Luckily I will be heading for Savannah next month so I plan to > > pick it up then. I'm thinking of reading Contact by Carl Sagan > > next. I really enjoyed the movie, and I can't imagine anyone > > having seen that movie without being convinced that there is life > > out there beyond the confines of the earth. > > > > So does anyone care to share what they are reading these days? > > Or their thoughts on life in outer space? I'm kind of angry at > > myself. Astute readers will notice that I have a new e-mail > > address. I also have a new computer. I downloaded the SETI > > program, but when I tried to add on to my previous SETI total > > they asked for my password. I have no idea, and since they only > > send the password to the old address (which has since been > > cancelled), I'm out of luck. I had over 400 completed work > > units, and had to start over. I'm at about 90 now. One good > > thing, my new computer whips through those work units between two > > and three times as fast as my old computer. > > > > Anyway, I ask again, what are you guys reading? > > > > Cousin Bill > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "Our country, right or wrong. When > > right, to be kept right. When wrong, > > to be put right." -- Carl Schurz > > > > > > > // > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > Gerald (Gary) Smith geraldsmith@ juno.com http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] A reading list
Gerald Smith wrote: I'm currently reading this note you sent. ;-) I'm also involved in "how to write science fiction and fantasy" by our own Orson Scott Card; and "The Book of J" edited by Harold Bloom. Gary This is really a coincidence. I'm reading THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Bloom, and he makes a lot of references to THE BOOK OF J. Also, I own the Card book and have recently put it back on my reading schedule because I just started a SF novel a few weeks ago. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
George Cobabe wrote: > > I suspect we shall soon be kicked off for daring to discuss this, but > what > the hey. > > Where in 131 does it say this? I read Celestial Glory, not the > Celestial > Kingdom. In the prior post, I used "kingdom" and "glory" interchangibly. Perhaps there is a difference...that might be a topic in and of itself. Even so, there is a reference to kingdoms, as will be noted in a moment. > However in 132:23-24 it talks about receiving and living with God and > that > this living with God is what exaltation is defined as. Living with God > should not be construed as damnation, as you have ably pointed out that > it > may represent. But in D&C 131, it says over in verse 4, referencing those who do not enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, "He may enter into the other [meaning one of the lower heavens or degrees], but that is the end of his kingdom: *he cannot have an increase*." That strongly suggests to me an inability to progress, or at a very minimum, the inability to have infinite might or dominion. This is despite the fact that we're still speaking of the celestial heavens--not of the terrestial or telestial worlds. Moreover, D&C 132:15-16 refer to those who marry outside of the new and everlasting covenant as being "appointed angels...ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory." By contrast, verses 19-20, speaking to those who marry in the covenant, "shall pass by the angels...to their exaltation and glory in all things...which glory shall be a fullness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. Then they shall be gods...because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them." It would seem like the difference between the two states would be considerable. Again, this is despite the fact that in all of this we've never left the celestial rhelm. > Why would the atonement not make up for any deficiencies that are > present in > a person worthy to attain to the Celestial Kingdom? I wish I could say I had an answer here. It would seem like your question is directed squarely at D&C 131:4 and 132:15-16--otherwise, the persons referenced there should have "had an increase." But clearly they do not. The only other thing I can think to suggest--and the chapter and verse escapes me--is that the atonement applies to all of mankind in greater or lesser degrees, except to those who are sons of perdition. Were it not for the atonement, it would be impossible for even those judged to be telestial to receive immortality and this lowest degree of glory. The atonement apparently works to a greater degree to people judged to be terrestrial, and greater still to those who are in the lower celestial rhelms. But apparently it works to the greatest extent possible to those assigned to the highest degree of the celestial heavens. One final thought: I could be wrong, but it was by understanding that D&C 132:24 had to be taken in the larger context of keeping all of his commandments, including the one pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant of marriage. For in D&C 132:21, we read, "Verily...I say unto you, except ye abide my law, ye cannot attain to this glory." Finally, the commandment in D&C 132:24 is, "Receive ye, therefore my law." I agree with you that the atonement is tied deeply into this because it is impossible to keep all of his commandments at all times. The ultimate question, which goes well beyond the scope of eternal marriage, is to what extent are we willing to keep His commandments. We may, for example, enter into the eternal covenant of marriage, but seriously transgress later. Or we may choose to avoid entering into the covenant in the first place. For that matter, we may choose not to receive the priesthood or even be baptised. Or we may do all of these things for the sole purpose of outward appearance, but not really be willing to keep the commandments in our hearts. In all of these instances, our eternal standing is likely to be called into question. The bottom line is that while the question of exaltation may turn on our willingness to enter into the eternal covenant of marriage--a specific commandment--it turns most of all upon our willingness to keep ALL of his commandments and in so doing, to then allow the atonement (through the process of repentance) to take full effect in our lives. All the best, /Sandy/ -- The Rabinowitz Family, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Spring Hill, Tennessee // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click he
Re: [ZION] A reading list
Cousin Bill wrote: I was just wondering what everyone is reading these days. I'm currently working my way through Red Rabbit by Tom Clancy. I had decided to read the Iliad and the Odyssey, but I didn't get too far before I realized that I will need to get the Cliff Notes to go with that. My little brain just doesn't function that well. Luckily I will be heading for Savannah next month so I plan to pick it up then. I'm thinking of reading Contact by Carl Sagan next. I really enjoyed the movie, and I can't imagine anyone having seen that movie without being convinced that there is life out there beyond the confines of the earth. So does anyone care to share what they are reading these days? Or their thoughts on life in outer space? I'm kind of angry at myself. Astute readers will notice that I have a new e-mail address. I also have a new computer. I downloaded the SETI program, but when I tried to add on to my previous SETI total they asked for my password. I have no idea, and since they only send the password to the old address (which has since been cancelled), I'm out of luck. I had over 400 completed work units, and had to start over. I'm at about 90 now. One good thing, my new computer whips through those work units between two and three times as fast as my old computer. Anyway, I ask again, what are you guys reading? I've been reading THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Harold Bloom and discussing it some online both here and on some of the other lists. Recently I finished reading a western by Ralph Compton entitled THE VIRGINIA CITY TRAIL. Also, I'm trying to finish up reading THE TEACHINGS OF GORDON B. HINCKLEY, but I have quite a way to go. It is a pretty big book and not exactly fast reading. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly, soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding." (President Gordon B. Hinckley, October 2003) === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Wee Small Hours
Oh, man, how can a nut make THAT mistake? We was thinking, as Ron will easily recognize, of Walnut Hill, which is where, in Natick? Till the embarrassed (t least it was a cocunut!) At 05:48 AM 11/7/2003 -0500, Uncle Ron wrote: My youngest daughter attends school in Chestnut Hill, a section of Newton: Ah, yes, nice school. We (meaning Ithaca Ballet**) have one of our girls gong there this year, Dasha Kittridge, as a drama major. A marvelously talented and beautiful young lady. Till ** (Schindlerian footnote) I decided the best way to repay all the kindness they did for my family was to serve on the board of directors AFTER my kids were out of there. They've gone and made me president now, which means I get to control how long (or short) the meetings are. So I still have a direct interest in the students there. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] A reading list
I'm currently reading: _The Moral Basis of a Free Society_, by H. Verlan Andersen. "Lysistrata," by Aristophanes. _The Hound of the Baskervilles_, by Arthur Conan Doyle. The play by Aristophanes is book two of a "Great Books of the Western World" reading plan (See: http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/books/gb195210.html ) that I have embarked upon. There are many such plans available. Many of the books (Or selections) I have already read so I might skip them and replace them with others. What books would you (Or should I) include in a ten-year reading list? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Brief Bio
Here is my brief bio: Steven Ray Montgomery 5055 Tomahawk Enoch UT 84720 Fifty years old and happily married to the former Mary Jane Rising. Mary hails from Grand Forks North Dakota and is a convert to the Church from Catholicism. Mary brought with her two kids from a former marriage, Kristi--age 26, and Eric--age 18. We have two kids of our own. Steven James--age 14, and Alex Jay--age 12. All four of our kids have various and different disabilities. Kristi is mildly mentally retarded and has some physical and social disabilty. Eric has advanced kidney disease (Eric is a kidney transplant recipient) and severe mental retardation. Steven James (Probably the most normal) was born with Laryngeal Malatia and has some verbal disability. While our last one, has mild mental retardation and a very mild form of Cerebal Palsy and Epilepsy. As you can see, my family keeps us very busy. I was born and raised in Vernal Utah but now reside in a small town five miles north of Cedar City. We love the small town life. From October 1973 to October 1975 I served a mission to New Zealand. The Auckland New Zealand Mission. I was the first one from my Dad's side of the family to serve a mission. Contrary to what might be the impression, or the opinion of some on this list, my main "gospel hobby" is not politics--but that of studying the scriptures and words of the brethren. I love the scriptures and love studying the doctrine. I have been Gospel Doctrine teacher on (let's see...is it four different occasions?). I've served in many positions from being in an Elder's Quorum Presidency, Young Men's President, etc. Currently I'm Ward Clerk of the Enoch 1st Ward. I graduated from Southern Utah State College with a degree in Political Science/History and am a former school teacher. Taught U.S. History and American National Government at Mt. Vernon Academy in Murray Utah. However, I've never made much money in my life and finances always seem to be a problem . But somehow we seem to make it through. I've been online since the early 90's and have been a member on ZION since I first discovered its existence sometime around about 1997. I have a love of learning and enjoy the discussions that we have on various subjects. Lately I haven't had much time to participate as much as I would like however. I give much credit to the Lord for the blessings that has come for our family. We wouldn't even be in a house of our own today were it not for his great mercy and loving kindness towards us. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Feng Shui
What is feng shui? How does it reconcile with living the gospel of Christ? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] A reading list
Steven Montgomery wrote: The play by Aristophanes is book two of a "Great Books of the Western World" reading plan (See: http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/books/gb195210.html ) that I have embarked upon. There are many such plans available. Many of the books (Or selections) I have already read so I might skip them and replace them with others. What books would you (Or should I) include in a ten-year reading list? There have been 15 Presidents of the Church in this dispensation. Have you read the standard compilation of the sermons of each? If not, they should be on a ten year reading list. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Repentance from adultery
What a great response Gary. I beleive you are right, although I think the number will be very small, whatever that means, just because the requirements are so high. George - Original Message - From: "Gerald Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 9:39 AM Subject: [ZION] Repentance from adultery > > > The definition given of a Son of Perdition is a person who has received a high level of understanding of the gospel, then not only fully denies it, but seeks to commit evil. Cain is the perfect example. He held the priesthood, spoke with God, then turned completely against God. > > It isn't a matter of someone refusing to repent of some sins. It is a matter of becoming God's total enemy, which most people in the world will never do. Even most murderers and adulterers keep some commandments and believe in God. They don't totally reject the light and truth, since they have not received a fulness of that light and truth, so they could never become a son of perdition. > > I would venture that of the 11+ million members in the Church today, less than 25,000 are spiritual and enlightened enough to ever risk being a son of perdition. And there are no non-members that could ever qualify. > > In fact, the only person we know of a surety is a son of perdition is Cain. Even Judas Iscariot probably did not qualify, as he had not received the Gift of the Holy Ghost and a true conversion. There will be, as I understand it, a major gathering of sons of perdition at the end of the Millennium, as Satan gathers his people out from those with a full witness of Christ. But in all reality, most of those choosing to be sons of perdition, chose to do so prior to this world. > > K'aya K'ama > Gerald Smith > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/ > Freedom Forever > > > Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:42:24 -0600 > From: Stacy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [ZION] Repentance from adultery (was: RE: Is God's Love > Unconditional?) > > > > I don't believe the sons of perdition will be few in number. I believe we > have sufficient scriptures to prove otherwise, notwithstanding many will go > telestial. The people that go telestial will still have to repent in order > for that to be done. I've seen some people who would never accept Jesus > under any circumstances. These people wish to live in their sins. Aren't > I right in suggesting that anyone who wishes to live through eternity with > their sins will go to perdition? > > Stacy. > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] blood red moon
Well, Gary even if your interpretation is not true, the conclusions are. We need to stand in Holy Places. Recently this was brought home to me more than for some time as I discussed the 200 years of peace after the Saviour visited this land. The idea was that it was not a universal, hemispherical, condition, but was limited to a relatively small group of people who had survived the visit. They were protected from the rest of the world while they had their Zion experience. I suspect that this might be an example of how it will be in the stakes of Zion in the last days. George - Original Message - From: "Gerald Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:15 AM Subject: RE: [ZION] blood red moon > Well, one way to interpret D&C 87 as the slaves that rise up against > their masters who are disciplined in war, to mean the fall of Socialism; > with the remnant of the slaves rising up against the Gentile nations > being the Muslim terrorism attacks. When that occurs, the D&C says there > will begin to be many signs in the heavens and natural destructions. > So, if that interpretation is correct, we may see some interesting times > ahead. Oh, stand in holy places, eh? > Gary Smith > > > Heidi Page wrote: > > > > Hello all... > > > > I read a bit on cnn.com this morning about the upcoming lunar eclipse > > this weekend and how the moon is supposed to turn blood red. To quote > > the article: "Saturday's lunar eclipse will be followed by the Leonid > > meteor shower, a total solar eclipse over the southern hemisphere -- and > > a chance for more auroras if the sun stays active. Another eruption > > Tuesday on the sun ranked among the most intense solar events ever > > recorded. But the explosion was aimed away from Earth, meaning it would > > have little impact here. " > > > > What think ye? Do you think this *means* anything? > > > > Just curious... > > Heidi the fair > > > > Gerald (Gary) Smith > geraldsmith@ juno.com > http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
I have no problem with what you have said, I think that I can agree with it all. As I said the question was quite different. George - Original Message - From: "Elmer L. Fairbank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2 > At 08:20 AM 11/7/2003 -0700, St George wrote: > >That's fine, Till. However I do not think you know the question in mind. > > > >You see, I find Sec 132 more that supportative and I believe it to be true > >as well. It is the scriptures, including 132, that I find supportive. > > > With all due respect, my friend, I was referring specifically to the part > where it says, with regards to those who have celestial marriage AND have > been sealed by the holy spirit of promise, "then shall they be gods", as > opposed to those who have not. Of them. IIRC, it is said, "and that shall > be the end of their glory" or some such. Are we just talking past each > other on semantics? I take exaltation et al to mean the former of these > two scenarios. Elsewhere in the scriptures I recall reading that damnation > is defined as having one's progression ended. Certainly, I would concede, > that to be a servant in the house of the most high would be far better than > being a prince in a lesser kingdom, but still, it IS a cessation of > progression. > > Till, who has said his piece > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Bio in Brief
This would be my bio: Sander J. "Sandy" Rabinowitz PO Box 1195 Spring Hill, TN 37174-1195 USA * Age: 35 * Married (14 July 2001): Melinda Samson, Nashville Tennessee Temple. * Children: Andrea Ruth, 21 mos. * Baptized: 23 January 1993, as a convert (Previously, no formal religious affiliation) * Melinda converted (along with her family) from the Roman Catholic church, and served in the Philippines Baguio City mission (1988-90). * Education: University of Michigan, B.S. '90, Computer and Information Systems; Nashville School of Law, first year, towards working towards J.D. degree in 2007 * Occupation: Audiovisual producer and graphic artist by day, and Law Student by night. Was: Computer Programmer/Analyst. * Hobbies (as time permits): Internet web development, Photography, Satellite television (dream is to have a 10-12 ft. dish in the backyard someday and be able to pick up raw feeds), reading. * Present calling: Ward membership clerk. * Prior callings: Stake computer specialist, stake missionary, deacon's quorum instructor, ward singles rep. For more information, photos of Andrea, and a rather lengthy conversion story, see http://www.firstnephi.com . All the best, /Sandy/ -- The Rabinowitz Family, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Spring Hill, Tennessee // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] HELP
http://www.topica.com/lists/zion/read/ Gary Ron Scott wrote: > > > Somehow I misplaced the address for the website, where I can read posts > on > line. Would you please forward the address to me when you get a moment. > > Ron Scott > > > Gerald (Gary) Smith geraldsmith@ juno.com http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2
Seems to me that a few years ago this list had a single sister on it who said she preferred being single in the Celestial Kingdom, and just being a ministering angel in God's presence. That being the case, there may be more to this than we think... Gary Sandy and Melinda Rabinowitz wrote: > > George Cobabe wrote: > > > > There are those on this list that in the past have argued that Eternal > > Marriage is NOT essential for exaltation. Exaltation is living in the > > presence of God the Father and receiving His blessings. Yet it is > > suggested > > that to live in the Celestial Kingdom it is not necessary to have an > > Eternal > > Marriage. > > Still, it's possible to be in the Celestial Kingdom and NOT be exalted. > > I think that's where the misunderstanding among members comes in. D&C > 131 indicates that temple marriage is needed for the *highest degree* of > > the Celestial Kingdom. On the basis of that scripture, it does appear > that a single person might be able to enter at the lowest degree. > > But the lower degrees of the Celestial Kingdom represent a type of > eternal damnation. Yes, persons designated for that place can be in the > > presence of both the Father and the Son, but exaltation goes beyond > being in their presence, and means becoming as God in all things, up to > and including godhood. If you can receive a degree of Celestial Glory, > yet be unable to attain the status of godhood (being designated, for > instance, as a ministering angel), then by definition, one's progression > > stops and damnation occurs. > > Still, in practical terms, I don't know how likely it would be for a > single person to reach the lower degrees of the Celestial Kingdom. For > if someone desires to enter into the covenant, makes the needed > sacrifices, yet cannot locate a suitable companion, teachings indicate > that provision will be made later in the post-mortal existance. At the > other extreme, someone who goes out of their way to avoid temple > marriage could be judged as being rebellious or disobedient...perhaps > the judgment might even be in the direction of the Terrestrial Kingdom? > > In the middle, I suppose, are those individuals who seek to be obedient > in the Gospel in most things, yet don't care one way or the other about > temple marriage. Then they die without being sealed to a companion, > realizing too late that they should have given the matter greater > attention. They might have been exalted, but for their diligence in > seeking an eternal companion. I suspect it would be these individuals > who would become the ministering angels in the lower Celestial rhelms. > (But would there be that many?) Even so, all this would be my personal > speculation. > > All the best, > /Sandy/ > > -- > The Rabinowitz Family, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Spring Hill, Tennessee Gerald (Gary) Smith geraldsmith@ juno.com http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] BYU Alumnus Broadcast
There is a worldwide BYU Alumni satellite broadcast tonight, but I don't know the time. Is anyone here planning to attend? --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] A reading list
At 01:11 PM 11/7/2003, you wrote: Steven Montgomery wrote: The play by Aristophanes is book two of a "Great Books of the Western World" reading plan (See: http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/books/gb195210.html ) that I have embarked upon. There are many such plans available. Many of the books (Or selections) I have already read so I might skip them and replace them with others. What books would you (Or should I) include in a ten-year reading list? There have been 15 Presidents of the Church in this dispensation. Have you read the standard compilation of the sermons of each? If not, they should be on a ten year reading list. --JWR Let's see, if I recall correctly, I've read the Teachings of President Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, Howard W. Hunter and Gordon B. Hinckley. I've also read the Journal of Discourses. I have also read the complete (to my knowledge, at least) published works of, Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, Bruce R. McConkie, and Gordon B. Hinckley. In addition I've read much of the writings of every other Prophet of this dispensation. As well as many other books, biographies and histories. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The overall performance of the college graduates in the Convention of 1787 speaks forcefully for the proposition that Latin, rhetoric, philosophy, and mathematics can be a healthy fare for political heroes.Clinton Rossiter // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] A reading list
Steven Montgomery wrote: Let's see, if I recall correctly, I've read the Teachings of President Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, Howard W. Hunter and Gordon B. Hinckley. I've also read the Journal of Discourses. I have also read the complete (to my knowledge, at least) published works of, Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, Bruce R. McConkie, and Gordon B. Hinckley. In addition I've read much of the writings of every other Prophet of this dispensation. As well as many other books, biographies and histories. Next time you are by my place drop in. I will give you a chocolate covered attaboy. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] BYU Alumnus Broadcast
At 03:43 PM 11/7/2003, you wrote: There is a worldwide BYU Alumni satellite broadcast tonight, but I don't know the time. Is anyone here planning to attend? --JWR Here is a copy of the email I got about it. Dear Wasatch Front BYU Alumni: You are invited to the Tabernacle on Temple Square in Salt Lake City on FRIDAY, NOV. 7, FROM 7 TO 8 P.M. to hear President Gordon B. Hinckley and new BYU President Cecil O. Samuelson speak at a Worldwide Alumni Gathering. Because we do not have email addresses for all our BYU alumni and friends, please help us get the word out by inviting your BYU friends to this event. This event will bring together the entire BYU alumni family at the same time as chapters throughout the world meet locally to hear the broadcast. The evening will also include musical selections from the popular BYU Men's Chorus. Admission to the Tabernacle is free, but tickets are required and may be obtained at www.lds.org/events, toll-free at 1-866-537-8457, or at door four of the Conference Center. Please note that the Alumni Gathering will not be broadcast live over the BYU-Television or BYU-Radio satellite networks. We look forward to joining with you on Nov. 7. -- Lew -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Sons of Perdition, Not a Few
"Evidently many among us have made a dreadful mistake, but not unpardonable, in thinking that the sons of perdition will be very few. We have heard it said at times that they will be so few that they probably could be "counted on the fingers of one hand." Where this thought originated we may not know. From the reading of the scriptures it appears that there will be a large number; far too many even if there were but one, for their punishment is most severe without any question." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol.1, p.78) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] BYU Alumnus Broadcast
Lew Thomas wrote: You are invited to the Tabernacle on Temple Square in Salt Lake City on FRIDAY, NOV. 7, FROM 7 TO 8 P.M. to hear President Gordon B. Hinckley and new BYU President Cecil O. Samuelson speak at a Worldwide Alumni Gathering. Because we do not have email addresses for all our BYU alumni and friends, please help us get the word out by inviting your BYU friends to this event. Thanks Lew. This is exactly the information that I needed. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] BYU Alumnus Broadcast
From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FAIR Apologetics <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [ZION] BYU Alumnus Broadcast Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:43:51 -0900 There is a worldwide BYU Alumni satellite broadcast tonight, but I don't know the time. Is anyone here planning to attend? --JWR It is at 7PM Ut. time. Look for me and I'll wave!!! _ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Sons of Perdition
In an effort to document Ron Scott's assertion that there will be very few Sons of Perdition, a number so small they can be counted on the fingers of one hand, I have been studying a few dozen of the references out of the many hundreds available on my CD-ROM, and I have learned a few things. 1) It is folk doctrine, and it is false that there will be only a few Sons of Perdition. In one place Joseph Fielding Smith denounces the "fingers of one hand" language. In another he says there were be "many" Sons of Perdition, but quickly adds that even one would be too many given the severity of the punishment. 2) A person cannot ignorantly become a Son of Perdition. He must "willingly" rebel against Heaven, just as Lucifer did. 3) He must commit the "unpardonable sin" which is the sin against the Holy Ghost. That is, he must first have the "testimony of Jesus" and then fight against the Savior. 4) Joseph Smith once said that he must first have "the heavens open unto him," which seems to be the source of confusion. Judging from other passages, having the "heavens open" is just an euphemism for having a testimony born of the Holy Ghost, not some spectacular vision such as Moses had in the PofGP or Nephi had in the BoM. 5) Apparently it is possible to have the "perfect knowledge" required by receiving a witness of the Holy Ghost. Anyway, so far it seems pretty vague just how much knowledge a person has to have in order to qualify as a Son of Perdition, but I'm going to play it safe and not rebel against God. Studying it, I get the distinct impression that one does not have to 1) have ones Calling and Election made sure, or 2) receive the Second Comforter, or 3) receive the vision given to Nephi and Moses. A person can qualify by merely having the testimony of the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ and then turn altogether away from that testimony and knowingly fight against him. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly, soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding." (President Gordon B. Hinckley, October 2003) === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Commies and Pinkos
Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: When my 5th son was an undergraduate here, he used to complain all the time about some of his left-wing, commie professors, with their touchy-feely pseudo-intellectual clap-trap. It was a treat to listen to him. But then he calls his mother a socialist, too. = Grampa Bill comments: It has been written that if a boy does not grow up to be a better man than his father, then they are both failures. Can we parphrase that to say that if a boy doesn't grow up to be further to the right than his father (or mother) then they are both failures? Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Commies and Pinkos
Grampa Bill in Savannah wrote: It has been written that if a boy does not grow up to be a better man than his father, then they are both failures. Can we parphrase that to say that if a boy doesn't grow up to be further to the right than his father (or mother) then they are both failures? Sounds like the gospel to me. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] A reading list
John W. Redelfs wrote: There have been 15 Presidents of the Church in this dispensation. Have you read the standard compilation of the sermons of each? If not, they should be on a ten year reading list. --JWR Grampa Bill comments: Sounds to me like a shameless plug for http://www.zionsbest.com . Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] BYU Alumnus Broadcast
At 01:43 PM 11/7/03 -0900, John W. Redelfs wrote: There is a worldwide BYU Alumni satellite broadcast tonight, but I don't know the time. Is anyone here planning to attend? --JWR I didn't know that the Shuttle was even flying again, much less taking passengers, so I doubt if I'll be going to the satellite for the broadcast. -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] A reading list
At 04:00 PM 11/7/2003, you wrote: Steven Montgomery wrote: Let's see, if I recall correctly, I've read the Teachings of President Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, Howard W. Hunter and Gordon B. Hinckley. I've also read the Journal of Discourses. I have also read the complete (to my knowledge, at least) published works of, Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, Bruce R. McConkie, and Gordon B. Hinckley. In addition I've read much of the writings of every other Prophet of this dispensation. As well as many other books, biographies and histories. Next time you are by my place drop in. I will give you a chocolate covered attaboy. --JWR If I ever make it up to Ketchikan I will do just that . -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do I err, then, in believing that the universe is built upon symbols, to the end that it may bear record of its all-wise Architect and Builder? God teaches with symbols; it is his favorite method of teaching. The Savior often used them. (Orson F. Whitney, Improvement Era, August 1927) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Getting Married Older [was Official Doctrine #2]
I know not all are that way, but around here there are no LDS widowers, and online resources are all that are available. Of those, the majority don't want a widow. I realize that is not accurate for all men, but it seems to be the general feeling online. Now, if I could find someone like Pres. Hunter. . .how cool would that be. He is right up there with Prophet/Presidents I really love and respect. His life-long trials, and the way he rose above them, still shine as an example for me to follow. I think he is incredible. val On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 08:59:46 -0900 "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > President Hunter married his second wife for time only because she > was > already sealed to another. So did the father of the man who > ordained me a > high priest. In fact, he married a second wife for time only, and > when she > died he married a third wife for time only. Not all of the men in > the > Church are into plural marriage beyond the grave, at least not so > you would > notice in their behavior as widowers. --JWR > > / / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > > > > .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Getting Married Older [was Official Doctrine #2]
Aw, Gary, you're sweet. Age has never been relevant for me. In the big scheme of things, we're all ageless. Tom died at age 69 (he'd be 71 now), I am now 45. I wouldn't want anyone young enough to be my son, however. Also, someone who doesn't mind the extremes in temperature and weather that Indiana has to offer. Is this too picky? val On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:52:07 + Gerald Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Val, > What age range are you looking for in a guy? Maybe a few of us could > look for potential candidates in our areas for you. > > Gary > > > Valerie Nielsen Williams wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 02:36:29 + Jim Cobabe > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > writes: > > > > > > John W. Redelfs wrote: > > > --- > > > Would that all the single men in the Church were as devoted to > > > keeping the commandment to marry as seriously as you did and > do. > > > --- > > > > > > Many of us take it seriously too. As a single man I am working > on > > > addressing this concern as quickly as sanity and comfort can > afford. > > > I have discovered that it is not an easy thing for an older > man. > > > > It's even harder for an older (middle-aged) widow. I wouldn't > mind > > finding a time-only companion. But it seems that the widowers in > the > > church want to be sealed to another woman, instead of finding one > who is > > already sealed. At my bishop's behest I tried LDSPlanet for a > couple of > > months. Profiles of widowers, majority, want to be sealed again > to wife > > #2. I can't compete with that, so I don't even try. At this > point, I'm > > content to live alone. > > > > val > > > > > > > > > / > > > > / > > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. > > «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ > > > > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > > Gerald (Gary) Smith > aldsmith@ juno.com > http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom > > / / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Commies and Pinkos
You left out Chapel Hill, HC. Jon - Original Message - From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:32 PM Subject: [ZION] Commies and Pinkos > Ron Scott wrote: > >That's fine. The politics can come later--as you gain more light and > >knowledge . Which reminds me of a joke. Something about newborn mice > >being good communists. When the commissar come back a few weeks later he > >discovers they are not communists anymore--their eyes had opened. Or > >something to that effect. > >--- > > > >Say, who are you and your pals chasing now that there aren't commies and > >pinkos in every commode and closet? > > Personally, I've moved away from politics and further into the gospel. I > know that the commies and pinkos are still there, I just don't care as much > what they are doing. Maybe you could fill me in, do you think? Not that > you were ever a commie or a pinko. > > And if you go looking for commies and pinkos you still might be able to > find some of them if you look in the right places: > > China > North Korea > Cuba > Vietnam > Harvard > Yale > ??? > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "The study of the doctrines of the Gospel will improve > behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve > behavior." --Boyd K. Packer > === > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
