Re: [Zope-dev] nasty persistence problem
Tim McLaughlin wrote: Thanks Chris, I'll hold on to that for a rainier day. I just worked this one out in a very roundabout way ;) A product had gotten copied in that moved a Product class from one module to another even though everything else was the same. It seems that ZODB doesn't like that. It sure doesn't. When it pickles an object, it says, here's a big binary blob that is the state of the object. The code for the object can be found in Products.MyProduct.MyModule.MyClass. When you move the code, ZODB understandably barfs. If I remember correctly, there is a way to make an alias in an old location that points to a new location when you *must* move the code for whatever reason. I forget how it works though... -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] A modest proposal: Replace medusa with Twisted
On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 16:05:06 +0200 Itamar Shtull-Trauring [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) Plugging in a different transports instead of TCP (e.g. SSL) is much easier in Twisted than medusa, as far as I can tell. In m2crypto's medusa ssl code very protocol needs its own subclass in order supports SSL. In Twisted that is done transparently - the protocol doesn't have to worry about the transport. Basically any protocol (excepting perhaps FTP) could run out of the box with SSL in Twisted, using the one SSL support module. Or Unix domain sockets for that matter :) 3) Twisted provides a larger number of protocols out of the box (e.g. pure python LDAP client, AOL TOC, IRC, POP3, SMTP, telnet) than medusa. Hopefully we will soon have an integrated DNS server as well, though I can't think how *that* would help Zope. Just to throw out another idea, Amos has discussed with me in the past the idea of replacing medusa with Apache 2.0. Compelling as many of Twisted's features may be, Apache 2.0 as far as i can tell supports many of them as well (except perhaps jython integration, which is a pipe dream anyway for Zope). Apache has the upshot in that it is rock solid, tested by millions, trusted by even more, and no doubt one of the most actively developed peices of software there is. For ZC the upshots of 1) not needing to maintain it, and 2) it being a excellent marketing tool outweight many technical benifits that twisted may have that Apache doesn't (I'd like to know what the differences are, however). For example, does twisted do URL rewriting? proxy? process/thread job control? Twisted does have the advantage of 1, but not 2. Further, our faith in the continuing development of Apache is, de facto, more than that of twisted simply based on the age, number of users, and number of developers of each project. I'm not dismissing the idea, I'm just pointing out an alternative to Itamar's alternative. ;) -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] thread locking and ZODB
On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:40:43 +1000 Terry Kerr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris, I notice in the ZODB2 article that it states that the conflict resolution method should return the state of the object after resolving the differences.. However, in the example the method only returns the portion of the state that was deamed to be in conflict. Shouldn't it be returning the entire new state dictionary? I believe it should, and that the article is in error, but really, I wouldn't go on that without hearing from someone like Jim or Shane. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Where to send patches?
On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 12:16:51 -0400 Jim Washington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, All Since the Collector is down, where do we send patches if we are not cvs-authorized? I just discovered a not-too-clever hack to make the Find tab recurse through methods of Z Classes, which the margin of this e-mail is too small to contain. Dude, don't jinx yourself. I'm sure you don't want us to refer to this as Jim Washington's last patch. ;) -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] question on ZCatalog
Zope-dev isn't the apropriate mailing list for this kind of question. You should ask your question on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list. This list is for developers. Have you read the Catalog documentation? http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/SearchingZCatalog.dtml -Michel On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Cherry Jeanette Ebue wrote: Yes, I have. -Original Message- From: Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Cherry Jeanette Ebue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] question on ZCatalog Do you have created the corresponding indexes for the attributes ? Andreas - Original Message - From: Cherry Jeanette Ebue [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] question on ZCatalog Hey Andreas, I have articles with the following attributes: author, search_meta, title and publication date All attributes are included in the meta data list. When I search my Catalog (of articles), only attributes of type string are returned in the search result. Publication date (of type date) and search_meta (of type text) do not get covered in the search. Thanks, Cherry -Original Message- From: Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Cherry Jeanette Ebue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] question on ZCatalog Cheery, could you please be a bit more detailed for us to understand your problem ? Andreas - Original Message - From: Cherry Jeanette Ebue [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 8:04 AM Subject: [Zope-dev] question on ZCatalog question on ZCatalog... how come indexes of type date or text are not covered/searched when queried? i'd really appreciate some help :-) Cherry ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] persistence
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Mark McEahern wrote: I'm a Zope and Python newbie and I'm trying to utilize Persistence, but I've seen two different ways: import ZODB from Persistence import Persistent vs. from Globals import Persistent Are these different? If so, which is better? Please don't ask me to define better. ;-) If you're just using Zope, both are acceptable. If you are just using ZODB, use the first. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Hey Chris, question for you
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Casey Duncan wrote: Ok, I was able to get it to work by instantiating a IISet around _unindex.keys() and passing that to difference (Thanks!), however, I notice an interesting side effect. Let's say you have a TextIndex on title and you do the following query: title != 'foo*' Which to me means: all cataloged objects whose title do not match the substring 'foo*' However, this is not what you get exactly, instead you get: all cataloged objects that have a non-empty title that does not match the substring 'foo*' Because from what I am seeing, objects with empty (or no) titles are not included in the index *at all*. So the set of all objects does not include ones without titles. I could fix this by making all objects be instead All objects in the catalog (via catalog.data.keys()) instead of all objects in the index, but I wanted to see if anyone had additional thoughts about this. Hmm the reason for the current behavior was optimization by saving space not indexing empty values. The problem with your latter aproach is that all objects in the catalog may include object that don't have a title attribute at all. I'm not against indexing empty values though. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: restructuredtext
I've cc:ed zope-dev in case anyone else is interested. On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, David Goodger wrote: The last time I downloaded and studied the CVS branch was in November 2000. At the time, the code wasn't very inviting. I just downloaded the CVS branch again, using the instructions in http://dev.zope.org/Members/jim/StructuredTextWiki/NGReleases, and visited http://dev.zope.org//Members/jim/StructuredTextWiki. The RecentChanges page and the StructuredTextNT/CurrentStatus page both list several additions which don't seem to be reflected in STNG.txt or the StructuredText.py module docstring. Is this code up to date? If not, I would appreciate a pointer to the latest code, or a source .tgz by email. The version in Zope CVS (the HEAD, not any branches) is the most current code. The branch was dinscontinued when we folded it into the head, so try checking out a full head branch and look there, you will probably notice many changes. If you do have information on creating a language front-end parser for STXNG, please send it. And please add links to my projects to the appropriate Wiki pages if you have time. (Karl: everytime I say DOM, I mean DOM-like). Basicly, Zope's current classic front-end is defined in StructuredText/ST.py. In there, you will see a function called StructuredText that turns indented, newline separated text into StructuredTextParagraph DOM objects, that get inserted DOM tree-style into a StructuredTextDocument DOM object. I would suggest you start looking there, ie, turn your code into a simple, homogeonous StructuredText paragraphs. For example:: foo = Title ... ... One ... ... Two *three* ... ... o four ... ... o **five** ... ... Basic(foo) StructuredTextDocument([ StructuredTextParagraph(Title, [ StructuredTextParagraph( One, [ ]) StructuredTextParagraph( Two *three*, [ StructuredTextParagraph(o four, [ ]) StructuredTextParagraph(o **five**, [ ]) ]) ]), ]) The resultant object is a StructuredTextDocument DOM object with StructuredTextParagraph DOM children. After the very first step, you can work with the content using the DOM interface:: Basic(foo).getNodeName() 'StructuredTextDocument' Notice how the first pass *didn't* go through looking for markup, *just* for structure. We did this for simplicity and because our structure could be factored out of our markup, I'm not sure if you can do that, but I suspect you can define more complex rules to define what a 'paragraph' element is. The next step is to colorize the simple, homogeonous DOM into a more complex Document DOM object:: Document(Basic(foo)) StructuredTextDocument([ StructuredTextSection(StructuredTextSectionTitle(Title, [ ]), [ StructuredTextParagraph( One, [ ]) StructuredTextSection(StructuredTextSectionTitle([' Two ', StructuredTextEmphasis('three')], [ ]), [ StructuredTextBullet(four, [ ]) StructuredTextBullet(StructuredTextStrong('five'), [ ]) ]) ]), ]) Now you have a DOM object that fully expresses your textual language. Obviously, you could turn this right back into STX. The Document() factory accepts a simple STX DOM tree created by the Basic() factory. This factory goes through, using the DOM API, looking for our special markup, and then colorizing that markup by adding new, more specialized DOM objects (like StructuredTextBullet and StructuredTextEmphasis). The final step is to feed the colorized DOM into an output generator. This is a factory that accepts a DOM object and returns a string of that object in a certain format. As an example, STXNG comes with HTML, MML (framemaker) and DocBook generators:: HTML(Document(Basic(foo))) 'html\nhead\ntitleTitle/title\n/head\nbody\nh0Title/h0\np One/p\nh1 Two emthree/em/h1\n\nul\nlifour/li\nlistrongfive/strong/li\n\n/ul\n/body\n/html\n' So what you would do is to create your own frontend that can turn your reStructuredText into a simple DOM consisting solely of 'paragraphs', whatever that means to you. In the case of STX, indentation and newlines define paragraph structure. In reSTX, you may have different ways of marking up document structure. I suspect your parsing rules will be more complex, and that you've probably already written that piece. DocumentClass.py contain a class for each type of markup STX defines. All of these classes subclass the StructuredTextParagraph DOM object. These DOM objects will get created when the DocumentClass.DocumentClass class encounters your markup as it parses your Basic DOM. The DocumentClass.DocumentClass class has doc_* methods that get called on every paragraph node in your Basic DOM. Each method has an associated regular expression that is used to match occorances of your markup. Some of them, like doc_table, are very complex, but others like doc_emphasize are pretty simple. You would write one subclass of StructuredTextParagraph and one of
Re: [Zope-dev] ZPL and GPL licensing issues
On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Gregor Hoffleit wrote: Hmm, I think this discussion doesn't belong to zope-dev. It's very informitive to me so far. I have no problem with discussing it here. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Where did DocumentTemplate/VSEval.py go in 2.4.0a1?
Should we make an alias for bw-compatability? -Michel On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Evan Simpson wrote: Morten W. Petersen wrote: one of my products landed flat on its face when an ImportError was raised trying to import VSEval from DocumentTemplate; is there a new class / function of some sort or simply another name for the class? See $ZOPE/lib/python/RestrictedPython. That replaces both DocumentTemplate's VSEval and PythonScripts' zbytecodehacks. It contains an Eval class that should be drop-in compatible with the old one. Cheers, Evan @ digicool ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] New Release of Zope Developer's Guide
I'm happy to announce a new release of the Zope Developer's Guide, available in HTML format here: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/ZDG/ The new guide contains many improvements and elaborations over the previous HTML release, and has benefited from the review and contributions from many community members including well-known object-orienteers Jim Fulton, Guido van Rossum and Bruce Eckel. This will be the last preview release of the Dev guide before we release the first edition alongside the release of Zope 2.4. As usual, any problems suggestions should be noted in the SourceForge tracker for the dev guide: http://sourceforge.net/projects/zope-devel/ Thanks! -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Structured Text Plus
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Ian Clatworthy wrote: Andreas Jung wrote: - Original Message - From: Ian Clatworthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 9:52 PM Subject: [Zope-dev] Structured Text Plus I've put together the design for an extended version of Structured Text which I'd like some feedback on before I go too much further. At this stage, the design is explained via a series of user-level How-To's, e.g. Writing Documents Using Structured Text Plus. Could you please summarize the benefits compared to STXNG ? As I understand things from reading the STXNG Wiki stuff, it's largely an internal rewrite which adds 2 or 3 new features, namely images and tables. This is only a small feature compared to what STXNG really adds to structured text. STXNG turns structured text into cross-format Document Object Model (DOM) in two stages and then into a final format. The first stage turns it into a simple DOM that reflects the paragraph structure, but not the markup (italics, bold, links, etc.). The second stage uses the first stage DOM to create an even more elaborate DOM based on markup or colorized text found in the first DOM's paragraphs. The second stage DOM can then be fed to a final outputter stage that renders the DOM in any format you want, currently we support HTML, DocBook, and MML (Framemaker or something like that) and it would be easy to add any other XML format or PDF. Here's an example that will work for you: print text Title o *one* o **two** o 'three' # # Create the basic DOM structure Basic(text) StructuredTextDocument([ StructuredTextParagraph(Title, [ StructuredTextParagraph( o *one*, [ ]) StructuredTextParagraph( o **two**, [ ]) StructuredTextParagraph( o 'three', [ ]) ]), ]) # # Create the Colorized DOM structure Document(Basic(text)) StructuredTextDocument([ StructuredTextSection(StructuredTextSectionTitle(Title, [ ]), [ StructuredTextBullet(StructuredTextEmphasis('one'), [ ]) StructuredTextBullet(StructuredTextStrong('two'), [ ]) StructuredTextBullet(StructuredTextLiteral('three'), [ ]) ]), ]) # # Generate HTML from the DOM print HTML(Document(Basic(text))) html head titleTitle/title /head body h0Title/h0 ul liemone/em/li listrongtwo/strong/li licodethree/code/li /ul /body /html # # Generate DocBook from the DOM print DocBookChapter(Document(Basic(text))) chapter titleTitle/title itemizedlist listitemparaemphasisone/emphasis /para/listitem listitemparaemphasistwo/emphasis/para/listitem listitemparaliteralthree/literal/para/listitem /itemizedlist /chapter You should really work from STXNG because we designed it to be extended, just like you want to do. You can subclass and customize the colorizer in the second stage to recognize your own customized markup and do what you will with it. Amos and I did this to support images in the book. You can also customize outputers as I explained. You are targeting also the single-source approach for documents with STPlus - what are the benefits compared to working solution like Docbook ? Upwards compatibility with STX, i.e. something more readable than XML. Amen to that! -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Wildcards in TextIndex query. Do they work?
On Tue, 29 May 2001, Erik Enge wrote: On Thu, 24 May 2001, Michel Pelletier wrote: the unsplitted, unl and unq are my debug flags, but you can see what happens: without parens the '*' has it's desired effect, with, it doesn't. Got a clue? Is this my bug, or ZCatalog's? Must be ZCatalog's. I'm guessing the paren matching takes a different code path that doesn't expand wildcards. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] bug in ZEO-1.0b3
On Tue, 29 May 2001, Dyon Balding wrote: If the ZEO server goes down, the the client no longer tries to keep reconnecting. This appears to be something to do with the __closed attribute in zrpc.py. Is there a page to check the status of bugs in ZEO? When is the next version due out? and will it be a final 1.0 version? Your bug, and these questions are probably best asked on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Wildcards in TextIndex query. Do they work?
On Thu, 24 May 2001, Erik Enge wrote: This query works: wil?car* This doesn't: (wil?car* or something else) and (word1 and word2) If the first works, then you are using a globbing vocabulary. The second one should work, but maybe there is a bug. Or perhaps your search criteria is so strict that you are getting no results. I can't see that the query-parsers in UnTextIndex.py transforms them differently, but I might be missing something obvious. There's _nothing_ obvious in that particular chunk of code. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Wildcards in TextIndex query. Do they work?
On Thu, 24 May 2001, Erik Enge wrote: On Thu, 24 May 2001, Michel Pelletier wrote: If the first works, then you are using a globbing vocabulary. The second one should work, but maybe there is a bug. Or perhaps your search criteria is so strict that you are getting no results. Hm. Something isn't right here. I don't think you are using a globbing vocabulary. This: eric got me 70 hits. This: eri? got me 4 hits. If you are not using a glob vocab, I suspect it stripped out the ? and is hitting on 'eri'. Do you have that word anywhere? That's a bit strange, if you ask me :) This: (erik) and (enge) returned 1 hit This: (erik) and (eng?) gave me none. Which could make sense if you were not using a glob vocab. The first one looked like this after the parsers had nibbled on it: [['erik'], 'and', ['enge']] And the latter one: [['erik'], 'and', ['eng?']] This one should look like [['erik'], 'and', ['enge', 'engs', 'engf', ...]] and match all the words that match the pattern eng?. If this isn't being expanded, then you are not using a globbing vocabulary. Then again, where did you get these objects? If you were looking at the wrong point in the code, the wildcards may not have been expanded yet. [['erik', '...', '...', '...', 'enge']] Where do you see this? Where should I look next to figure out what's going on? Make sure you are using a globbing vocab. Note that you can't change a catalog's vocabulary once the catalog is made, so you have to make a new catalog. I can't see that the query-parsers in UnTextIndex.py transforms them differently, but I might be missing something obvious. There's _nothing_ obvious in that particular chunk of code. Good, then it's just not me. Is the overall design philosophy for ZCatalog/Catalog/SearchIndex documented anywhere? The catalog has evolved over the past four years. Most of the text index query parser code was written by someone long gone from this company, and certainly way before my time. The catalog is, in fact, the evolution of a completely different product called ZTables, now long dead in the annals of Principia history. This person did not document their design, so the answer is no. I had some UML models once, but my modeling tool ate them. (By the way, from lib/python/SearchIndex/TextIndex.py, what is sws and cv3?) Very old consulting projects, long dead. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] SearchIndex Splitter lowercase indexes?
On Thu, 24 May 2001, Christian Robottom Reis wrote: Hi, I've been testing SearchIndex's Splitter here, and I'm finding the behaviour only a tiny bit strange: it converts the words it splits to lowercase. Is this intentional? Yes. Example: import SearchIndex.Splitter import SearchIndex.Lexicon s = SearchIndex.Splitter.Splitter(Foo Bar Baz, SearchIndex.Lexicon.stop_word_dict) s[0] 'foo' s.indexes('foo') [0] Why does this happen? This is a very common indexing strategy to save space and make searches more relevant. Otherwise 'Dog' and 'dog' would return two completely different result sets. The splitter also removes single character words, splits words on non-alphanumeric characters based on your locale (like -) and trims off common english suffixes like 's' and 'ing' so that 'walk' and 'walking' find the same words. The splitter can also be passed a mapping of synonyms, so you can tell the splitter that automobile ford and lisp are all synonymous to the word car. It makes TextIndex's position() call behave unexpectedly until you do some tests with the Splitter itself! position() is currently unimplemented, isn't it? so does it matter? Also, I don't know what your doing with position() but anytime you want to look up things in a text index, use the same splitter to munge the content before querying the index, otherwise, you may end up not finding what you're looking for. The splitter should really be a modular component. That's what vocabularies were origninally for, to store language specific artifacts like word lists and splitters. For example, stripping the ing suffix obviously only makes sense in English. so if you want to change this behavior, make your own vocabulary with its own custom splitter. This is because each language has very different splitting requirements, and even different meanings of the word word. Imagine, for example, splitting Japanese or one of the Chinese languages (based textualy on Kanji). Identifying words in Kanji is a very hard problem. In romance langauge, it's easy, words are seperated by spaces, but in Kanji words are diferentiated by the context of the surrounding characters, there are no spaces. Splitting Kanji text requres a pre-existing dictionary and some interesting heuristic matching algorithms. And that's only half of Japanese itself, really, since there are two other alphabets (hiragana and katagana) that *are* character-phonetic like romance langauges, and all three alphabets are commonly mixed together in the same sentence! Chinese language may also have these phonetic alphabets. In other words, it's not an easy problem! There is going to be an unimaginable culture clash when asian and other non-romance languages catch up to the volume of romance language content on the web. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] Xron error!!!
On Thu, 24 May 2001, Loren Stafford wrote: 5. You can truncate the bloated tail end of a Data.fs file using standard system tools. I don't remember how right at the moment, but a search in the mail archives on trucate and data.fs might be fruitful. Use the unix command 'split'. I immagine cygwin ports this simple program to windows. Of course, you can also do the truncation in a couple lines of python, but I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader. ;) -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] SearchIndex Splitter lowercase indexes?
On Thu, 24 May 2001, Christian Robottom Reis wrote: On Thu, 24 May 2001, Michel Pelletier wrote: This is a very common indexing strategy to save space and make searches more relevant. Otherwise 'Dog' and 'dog' would return two completely different result sets. Fine. However: s.indexes('Foo') [] Is _this_ supposed to happen, too? Yes. The splitter was applied to the document before it was indexed so both Foo and foo became foo and there is no Foo. The index itself is technicaly not case insensitive, it's case flattened, which makes the query interface case insensitive. Ah, I guess to. It's the problem with using this outside of Zope. :-) No, you just didn't apply the splitter before you queried the index. results = [] for word in Splitter(search for these words or foo): results = results + s.indexes(word) Uhhh, no, it _is_ implemented. It just didn't work like I'd expect :-) index.positions(1,['crazy']) [2] index.positions(1,'crazy') [] index.positions(1,['Crazy']) [] I see, yes it must be a sequence and you must also apply the splitter to your input before querying an index. So it does look lowercase words up. Of course, this is an artifact of the following point you make: you want to look up things in a text index, use the same splitter to munge the content before querying the index, otherwise, you may end up not finding what you're looking for. This makes sense: s = Splitter(Crazy) index.positions(1,s) [2] Ahhm. Okay. Will update my documentation with this important point. Ah I see you came to the answer yourself. Yes this is an important point, especially for other languages where the splitter *must* be applied to extract the words from context, like Japanese. In other words, it's not an easy problem! There is going to be an unimaginable culture clash when asian and other non-romance languages catch up to the volume of romance language content on the web. Fascinating points on i18n and l10n of the indexing mechanism. Makes me wonder how far the current implementation will go before having to be rewritten, and if the world will survive east-meets-the-west of computing text. Digital Garage implemented a JVocabulary and have sucessfully cataloged japanese text. I wonder if htdig or php can do that grin. But I believe the Splitter could stay the same for western languages, from what I've seen of the code. Can't really see the ing-cutting stuff here. Oh, well maybe it used to remove common suffixes and I took it out. It's called stemming, and it's a pretty common pattern. But you'd be suprised how many people run into english only quirks even in western languages with Zope's splitter. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Simple Question
On Wed, 23 May 2001, jawad haider wrote: I wanted to make a search form in which search criteria and search result will appear on the same page e.g.search criteria on the top and when the submit button is pressed the list of search results should be displayed in the bottom of the page. But when I try to accomplish this using the following code the search results are displayed on a separate page. You want to page to 1) draw a form if there are no search criteria and 2) call itself when the form is submitted. Andreas already showed how you can check for a form submission, and havving the page call itself is simple: form action=. this form will submit to its own URL. Your question is out of the scope of this list, which is about Zope core and product development. This is a user question, and should be directed to the Zope list [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] manage_workspace = index_html
On Mon, 14 May 2001, The Doctor What wrote: What's going on? Is this a Mozilla problem? Yes. If so, why is lynx doing the same? Because lynx is broken too. How should I go about trouble shooting it? The problem is the client does not provide the right Basic authentication credentials for the frame like it's supposed to. Zope then assumes that you are just an anonymous user, and shows you the only 'managment tab' you have permission to see, 'View'. If I recall, this have been broken an fixed in mozilla a few times now. Other browsers do this wrong too, like w3m. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZEO Clients, broken servers, and Z2.pid
On Thu, 10 May 2001, Anthony Baxter wrote: As far as I can see, ZEO clients don't write a pid to Z2.pid until after they've successfully connected to a storage. Is there a reason for this? Probably not. It's nothing to do with ZEO, z2.py does an 'import Zope' before it writes the z2.pid file. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Server hanging :-(
On Thu, 3 May 2001, Chris McDonough wrote: It's no problem, especially as Michel had insomnia last night and did it. ;-) My best stuff comes out when I can't sleep. Those of you who are interested in looking at it, check out the ever-growing Zope Developer's Guide (shame on you if you haven't read it!). http://sourceforge.net/projects/zope-devel/ -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Server hanging :-(
On Thu, 3 May 2001, Michel Pelletier wrote: On Thu, 3 May 2001, Chris McDonough wrote: It's no problem, especially as Michel had insomnia last night and did it. ;-) My best stuff comes out when I can't sleep. Those of you who are interested in looking at it, check out the ever-growing Zope Developer's Guide (shame on you if you haven't read it!). Ok, well maybe not shame considering you have to check it out of CVS. ;0 -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Server hanging :-(
On Wed, 2 May 2001, Chris McDonough wrote: The docs (available via the --help switch) go into some of this detail, but I agree that a narrative explaining how to approach it from a functional perspective would be a good thing. This should go in the debuggin and testing chapter of the dev guide. Wanna take a stab? -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] reading the entire DB
On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, nw_moriarty Last Name wrote: Jim Were you able to run the script I sent previously? I have attached it again. It demonstrates that the entire DB is read each time an item is read. It does this because your script creates and destroys the database connection every time it reads an object. If you keep this connection open, then it won't do that. Whenever you open a database, the whole file is read in order to rebuild the index cache, when you .close() the connection, the whole thing goes out of scope and is destroyed. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] getPhysicalPath?
On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Brian Lloyd wrote: To me, aswell. Is this documented somewhere? ;-) It's not in the Acquisition.stx in the ExtensionClass docs - probably they were never updated when it was added. I think that aq_chain is most useful as a debugging aid rather than something one would use in an application (which is not to say that it shouldn't be documented). It would be a good idea to add this to the Collector as a documentation issue. A better place would be the sourceforge issue tracker for the dev guide: http://sourceforge.net/projects/zope-devel -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] FTP interface being worked on?
On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Fred Wilson Horch wrote: You may also find our documentation process interesting: http://www.zope.org/DocProjects/intro Yes, very interesting! But I'm sorry to see that the Developer's Guide is only in the planning stages. Here is some info that should go into it (from our Zope notes at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/docs/notes-zope.txt?rev=1.8content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markupcvsroot=ecoaccess): This information should actually go in the administrator's guide: http://sourceforge.net/projects/zope-admin -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] Search Features and Zope Directions Road Map
Please do NOT cross post. -Michel On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ausum wrote: Zope is a great application server, the same as its soon to be released Content Management Framework, because of its bet on Python, everybody say it. Nevertheless, after reading the Directions Roadmap from DC, I was surprised that a substantial improvement of the searching features of Zope, wasn't mentioned as a major concern. For a new Zope enthusiast like me, it is a kind of addiction to arrange and administer content while taking the learning curve. Almost everybody in this list with a non-programming background might've experimented this. But when I arrived to the search features of ZCatalog, I got mixed feelings. (Right now I'm stuck on this OR indexes searching :) ) The fact is that - according to my strong belief - everybody uses more Google to look for Zope Site's content than Zope's own Zcatalog's search engine. Moreover, everybody uses more Google to look for everything, bypassing windows, doors, and portals!. Why? Because it's terribly smart (not mentioning its 6,000 Linux boxes, by the way), and because there's no need to follow the highly-engineered information architecture of a web site, if there's a trustful shorcut to the relevant content!. So, if I'd have to mention one big feature improvement to Zope, I wouldn't doubt: "search engine". I just wanted to point on this subject. I know Zope isn't about spidering and retrieving, but it should have "Greater Search Capabilities" as a title, within that roadmap. :) Ausum p.d. Right now I'm quite interested at the technology of searching and finding non structured content, in order to compose structured documents. For example, the guys at Vignette (StoryServer) say that its customers don't need to keyword anything in order to have a "related content" section. After the writer finishes a story, (possibly while) a routine by Autonomy (www.autonomy.com) reads the document and finds out what the document is about, and so it triggers a search for related content within the site, without the need of intervention by the writer. (For the curious, Autonomy has published a personal version of its software. It's called Kenjin (www.kenjin.com) ). On the other hand, Fast, from Norway, already have a nice multimedia search engine, from regular, non-structured, spidered web pages. Can we do that "structuring the unstructured" thing within Zope? ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Development Roadmap Components
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Jimmie Houchin wrote: While reading the Zope Development Roadmap about components I had a question. It says: """Components will be edited via the filesystem as .py files. Components will probably be checked into and out of Zope via a CVS like facility. Components can be tested locally without checking them into Zope.""" What does this say about developing components with Py/Perl Scripts? It looks to be closer to the current Python Products. Yes. We have thought a bit about "composite components" and "persistent modules" and stuff like that, but we only went so far into elaboration when we realized that it required lots, and lots of thought and effort. The current component effort is much simpler, a component is: an object with an interface. If this is a ZClass with Perl-based script methods, then so be it, but we haven't thought far enough into what ZClasses really are to start thinking about giving them interfaces. Is this sort of what you're asking? -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Zope book now in public CVS
Greetings! The Zope book is now available in raw (structured text) format in a sourceforge CVS repository. We are also using SF's bug tracking and other tools to allow you better report problems to us than just email. If you'd like to check the book out of CVS, follow the instructions on this page under 'Anonymous CVS Access': http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=21038 What does this do for you? Well, first off, if you see problems in the book and you'd like to fix them, you can submit a patch to us instead of an email "describing" your suggested fix in prose. This is much more accurate for us to see the problem you point out. Tracking patches also gives us a nice mechanism for making sure we give patch-submitters honorable mention in the book! Also, some people may want to distribute the book (in accordance with the OPL license, or course) in some format we don't support yet, like LaTeX or Word (yes, PDF is coming, we're working on it!). With "the source" you are free to go about converting the content into whatever format you'd like. Lastly, although we try to keep the site as in-sync as possible with the CVS, the latest and greatest bug changes to the book may be found in CVS, where the web-site may lag a few days behind. So check it out, and enjoy. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Introducing ZopePrints.
On 12 Feb 2001, Erik Enge wrote: The rationale behind this is that the community at large would benefit from this by having _real_life_ case studies so when their time has come to implement an application in Zope, they don't fall into the same traps and pitfalls we did. Instead of benchmarks, the Zope community would use implementation documents to decide whether Zope is up for the job or not, that's what really helps. We would love to see this description from you. We inside DC have our own problem solving development process that is large, complex, slow, but often (IMO) accurate if done well. It is based partly on the "Rational" model developed by the Three Amigos: http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=the%20three%20amigoslastnode_id=125995 partly on chaos theory, Jim's three laws of engineering (1. F=MA, 2. You can't solve a problem unless you know the answer, 3. You can't push a rope) and on the abundance of Thai food. We also have a "fishbowl" experiment community process, a "dogbowl" content managment design process, a documentation process, and one horse-choking travel policy. I think it would be great to get examples of your problems in a case study format, but also in a higher-level, pattern like description. Your description sounds like it is based on the problem and the goals, which is really great. I'm quite sure that it will also work as a tool for finding gaps and holes in either Zope or its tools and Products. Indeed. We would like to start a project going in the Fishbowl which aims at creating the right tools to document a project as described above. The fishbowl is the perfect place to do this. In a conversation with other people including Brian who is the "keeper of the fishbowl" we realized that documentation artifacts come out of the fishbowl almost as much as the software. In fact, that's one of the whole reasons for the fishbowl, to come up with better software because we thought about it and wrote down some words before we started hacking code. Instant documentation. Good luck! -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Interfaces Wiki Security Stuff
On Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:01:32 - "Chris Withers" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: security. That wiki and lessons learned from it were used by us to create the Interface package that now comes with Zope. Is there anywhere I can find docs on that package? Yes, in the fishbowl: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/Interfaces/FrontPage look at UserDocumentation. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Creating IMAP and SMTP services for Zope
On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Morten W. Petersen wrote: Hi guys, I'm wondering about creating IMAP and SMTP services for Zope. Someone mentioned to me that extending (using?) the ZServer could be a Good Thing (tm). Could anyone point me in the right direction? I took a stab at IMAP once... http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/MyWiki/IMAPServer I haven't touched it in a while, and I cannot say much about it, it was over a year ago. -Michel Thanks. -Morten ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Interfaces Wiki Security Stuff
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Chris Withers wrote: Hi, How active/relevant is the interfaces wiki at: http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/Projects/Interfaces Not active, mostly relevant. I'm trying to figure out how RoleManagers, local roles, etc work and where the work of Zope Security is actually done. I've found ZopeSecurityPolicy.py and bits of stuff in Roles.py, and a few lines in BaseRequest.py, but the picture is still kinda flakey :-S It looks like there was quite a lot of discussion on the Wiki about all this, but I'm not sure how old it is and whether anything happened from it :-( It's old. The Interfaces Wiki was a first attempt at grasping the API of Zope, not an easy task. Most of the effort in that wiki went into the online help system for "through the web" objects. As a second goal, the wiki was also used to collaborativly develop new interface in Zope, mostly in the areas of traversal and security. That wiki and lessons learned from it were used by us to create the Interface package that now comes with Zope. The next phase of the project is to actually document the interfaces of Zope in Zope itself using the new interface framework. This will be the first step (and the hardest) toward a more component-oriented framework. These issues have been one of my tasks for the past few weeks, and in the next major version of Zope, you will probably see a good bit of internal interface documentation for high level and low level Zope interfaces. -Michel So, where should I be looking to find out how RoleManager, Local Roles Proxy Role work from a Python product developers point of view (in Zope 2.3) and what changes are in the pipeline? Security changes are usualy not driven through a pileline, think more like a gun to your head. ;) -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] PythonScripts documentation
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Gerald Gutierrez wrote: Where is the latest documentation for PythonScripts located? The closest I found is http://www.zope.org/Members/4am/PythonMethod but it is dated and contains minimal information. I'm specifically interested in what I can do with them and what I cannot do with them. What you can do with them from a practical standpoint is documented quite a bit in the Zope Book: http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/ScriptingZope.html I'll be uploading a new version of the book with many corrections RSN. What you cannot do with them from a dryer perspective can be found in the online help system under API Documentation. Please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you feel there are any holes in either resource. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Editors [OT]
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Chris Withers wrote: My wishlist would be: - Runs nicely on NT4 XEmacs - Syntax highlighting for Python, C, XML, HTML (and, although this is dreamworld stuff, DTML ;-) XEmacs - FTP or WebDAV editing built in as standard (or alternative solution, like cadaver making it work ;-) XEmacs - Regular Expression search replace XEmacs - search replace of multiple files XEmacs and my dream list would be: - can run multiple copies of the editor at once XEmacs (but who needs more than one emacs?) - class browser for python, with expand/collapse of code (like the editor for Python 2) XEmacs (speedbar mode) Any ideas? I had to, love makes you do strange things. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Perl Scripting in Zope
On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Mike Kelland wrote: I've got about 3/4 of my application built in Zope (entirely in dtml I'm afraid to say) but I'm reaching a point where it's difficult to continue with only DTML (things like complicated database structures and validation of input fields) and since I don't quite know python yet (currently teaching myself) and I'm adept at Perl, I'd like to incorporate Perl Scripts into my app. I got the pyperl-1.0.beta.tar.gz and zoperl-1.0.beta.tar.gz modules from ActiveState but I really have no idea if they're Win32 compatible (or only on Linux/Unix etc) and if they are, how to install them. I'm reluctant now to switch to a standalone Perl solution now that I've invested so much time into the Zope one. Perl Scripts are still being developed, but if you want to jump through a hoop or two they are quite cool (or so I'm told, as I don't know enough Perl to even write one). When we documented them for the upcomming book, I had to download my own python, and my own perl distributions and patch them both. Then I had to compile some magical stuff and diddle with my paths. Then they worked. It's all documented fairly well in the readme, and you might want to skim through the mailing list archives and read everything by Gisle. I can't tell you how hard it is on Windows, I did it on Linux. As a posible interum sollution, you might want to check out Zope 2.3a1. This release of Zope has Python Scripts. These little babies are no harder to use than DTML (many (like me) believe way easier) and end you up with much better design. Learning Python is a snap, I suggest running through the Python tutorial on python.org (it's short and sweet) and you'll be up and running in no time. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] Gadfly and Zope 2.2.4
On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Josh Zeidner wrote: Hello, I tried to add a Gadfly Database connection to my Zope installation without changing any of the parameters and got an error message saying: "The parameter, connection, was omitted from the request." . What, if anything, am I doing wrong? You're not selecting a data source. This is one of the items in the list box on the add form (the default setup comes with one data source called 'demo'. To add your own data sources, see the Gadfly docs. -Michel -josh zeidner Brooklyn Media Labs, LLC. _ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] ANNOUNCE: Zope 2.3.0 alpha 1 Documentation Release
On the heels of Brian's announcement, we are gurgling with joy to announce a sychronized release of the Zope Book for the Zope 2.3 alpha release. http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/ This release marks the first time the book and Zope are "in sync" enough for you to be able to fully try out all the examples and understand all the concepts. This also marks the first time in long time that Zope has a (fairly) complete, up-to-date manual! Truely exciting times are these. Remember though, both the software *and* the manual are alpha, they both will have bugs. Please report any bugs, suggestions, or comments in the book to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Happy reading! -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope] Signed Zope Book Winners
Last week we announced a content to win free, signed copies of the book for finding errors in the book releated to calling a Script a Method. We have winners! Thanks folks, there are real bugs my eyes missed, and we've fixed them all. As soon as the book hits our local shelves, we'll get your signed copies in the mail. Here are the official winners! o "jimbo" o M. Adam Kendall o Jason Cunliffe o Lalo Martins o Jochen Knuth o Holger Hoffmann o "Bak@kedai" o Magnus Heino We'll be contacting the winners by email. If I sent you an email saying you *did* win and you're not in this list, fwd: it back to me and we'll get you a book, you may have slipped through the cracks (my mail filtering isn't all that hot). Please do *not* send it to the zope list, cuz then my filters send it off to the big pile that I don't read that often. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] ZPublisher and func(self,*args,**kw)
On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Andreas Jung wrote: Inside a product I tried to replace the following function def myfunc(self,arg1='',arg2='',REQUEST=None): by def myfunc(self,*args,**kw): to get a more generic interface. However in every case "args" and "kw" are empty when I output their contents inside the function. Bug or feature ? Zope will only match up arguments from a request with your function arguments when you are specific. It won't just shove everything it can into *args or **kw. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] New version of book uploaded
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Bak@kedai wrote: On Friday 08 December 2000 09:07, Michel Pelletier wrote: Greetings, Read this carefully, you may end up with a free, signed copy of the Zope book. as ypu said, this whole chapter still uses python methods. Actually, the copy of the chapter in your browser cache still uses Python Methods. The copy on the website does not. All of these you've pointed out are old news... Sorry! -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Failed upgrade to 2.2.4 - solutions?
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Luke Tymowski wrote: Hello, I've just tried and failed to upgrade to 2.2.4 from 2.2.2. A python instance starts up and slowly swallows the CPU, ending with 99% of the CPU. A second python instance starts and doesn't do anything naughty. If I issue a ./stop, the second python instance ends properly, but the first continues to consume all CPU resources. I've tried recompiling it several times, reinstalling Python, but no go. It did once start up properly, but as soon as I tried logging into Zope, python took over the CPU. I'm using OpenBSD 2.8, python 1.5.2, x86, 196MB of RAM, GBs of free disk space. I've been using Zope since 2.0 and have never had this much trouble upgrading. the only Zope product I'm using is SiteAccess (the same setup as the old Zope.org before the cluster upgrade). Any ideas? Try turning on the profiler. Quothe the control panel: To enable profiling, restart the Zope process with the environment variable PROFILE_PUBLISHER defined. The value of this variable should be the full system path to a file that will be used to dump a profile report when the process restarts or exits. And kill the process. Maybe this will create a profile report that tells you where it's spinning. Are you sure your waiting long enough? If you have a large Data.fs and you just move it over to a new install, Zope needs to take some time to build the initial database index file. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Failed upgrade to 2.2.4 - solutions?
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Luke Tymowski wrote: Hello To enable profiling, restart the Zope process with the environment variable PROFILE_PUBLISHER defined. The value of this variable should be the full system path to a file that will be used to dump a profile report when the process restarts or exits. PROFILE_PUBLISHER='/home/luke/sw/zopeProfile.txt' like so in my z2.py? it didn't do anything. Nope, you need to set a process environment variable on your system, not a python variable in your module. You do this before staring Zope, you can do it in a start script (syntax depends on your shell) you can do it from z2.py with os.eviron: http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-procinfo.html Or you can do something like: bash$: export PROFILE_PUBLISHER=/home/luke/sw/zopeProfile.txt bash$: python z2.py -D or something of the like... But I can get a python core dump! I tried just a basic install, without my Data.fs. Same result. I tried 2.2.2. Same result. Looks like an incompatibility with OpenBSD 2.8 (I was running 2.7 until 2 weeks ago.) Any ideas? C-compiler or Python incompatibility between what is on OpenBSD 2.8 and Zope? Don't know... OpenBSD 2.8 comes with Python 1.6. I removed all traces of Python and reinstalled 1.52 from the source. It's possible you have library missmatch. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] Significance of the ZODB split?
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Robin Becker wrote: Anyone know why AM Kuchling needs to split off a Sourceforge project based on ZODB? I don't think it's a "split", but AMK is using ZODB internally at his job, and externally with his own projects, so I can see him wanting to have some control over the distribution that he uses. Other than that, there could be other reasons, we, for example, do not provide a mechanism for community checkin privledges, Sourceforge does. I don't think we have a ZODB specific mailing list, sourceforge offers this. That being said, I'm pretty sure we've allways kept up with Andrew's patches and suggestions, and we'd be happy to create a mailing list. Andrew has also extended any developer at DC checkin privledges at the sourceforge project; although I suspect we'll just continue to check into our CVS and he'll "sync" with us that which he wants. I am, in particular, barely not lazy enough to check stuff into branches, much less whole other repositories. ;) I really liked the ZEO examples, but where's this going? It's just open source. More power to him in my opinion. He's definatly taking Zope and ZEO to new levels and audiences. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope] New version of book uploaded
Greetings, Read this carefully, you may end up with a free, signed copy of the Zope book. That's right, Amos and I have just gotten done adding all kinds of new stuff to the book, and in particular we made quite a few changed from "Python Method" to "Python Script". This was a task more subtle than a simple search and replace, many changes needed to be done. Also, sometime really soon, we will be making a 2.3 alpha release. This will be the first release of Zope that will be "in sync" with the book. Lots of milestones to reach there. So, instead of reading the book over again for the N to the Nth time in preparation, we have decided to run a fun little contest. The *first* person to point out an incorrect usage of the term "method" when it should be "script" will get a free copy of the Zope book signed by Amos and myself. If you are the second person to point out the same error, sorry, you're out of luck, but *keep reading* because you may find another! For each unique "method" error found in the book, someone will get a free signed copy! And don't just stick to Chapter 8 (although that's probably the best place to start!) because Python Meth...er Scripts are used all over the book. To keep everything fair, you must report your findings to the community reviewer list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] They will be the "judges", and will decide who does and who does and does not get a book. Here are some sample right and wrong sentences to give you an idea, just because a sentence contains the word "method", doesn't make it wrong: "DTML Methods are smelly." (Right) "By using DTML, Python, Perl or other kinds of methods, you can script the web." (Wrong) "Python Methods rock!" (Wrong) "You can call *fooBar* through the web like any other kind of method". (Wrong, should be "object", tricky! The judgest make the call on these kinds of errors) "The Python code in your External Method must be in the Foo module." (Right, External Methods still exist) Get the idea? The O'Reilly community reviewers (the "judges") and employees of Digital Creations are not elligible in this contest, sorry guys, you already get free books. ;) So without further a-do here's the URL. Have fun! http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/ -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] New version of book uploaded
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, jimbo wrote: I meant to paste this link in the last posting. I had the wrong title. http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2000-December/036772.html And when do I get my book? Slow down jimbo I haven't even eaten dinner yet! We got yer submission. And can I get the likes of Guido, and Jim to sign the book also? Nope, sorry. Amos and I work many thousands of miles away from them. Perhaps if you bring your copy to Python9, you can talk them into signing it. -Michel Just making sure this thing is on. It is. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZUnit - feedback convocation
On Thu, 30 Nov 2000, Lalo Martins wrote: Hi all I'trying to write a document on ZUnit and Unit Testing in general, following Michel's and Amos' documentation process. I wrote an outline, and now I'm stuck :-) anyone with a few free moments is welcome to take a look and send me some words. Also, anyone very interested in the subject is welcome to volunteer for editorial help (read the Process to know what this means). Thank you. I have some suggestions for the outline: In the first section, remove "where does it come from" if the section involves the history of unit testing. I'd say the history lesson is out of scope. ;) I would add a section in the beginning "Why do you want to use it". What does "refactor mercilessly!" mean? Next section... "Importing ZUnit" requires a whole section? I suggest axing it. I would add an "example" section before moving into fitting it into Zope... What are "Fixtures"? What is the "persistence problem"? If it is a bug that should be fixed in Zope then it probably shouldn't go in the documentation, if it is something the reader shouldn't do, then it should probably go into "interfacing with the Zope environment". A wart doesn't justify adding a new section just to add a sub-section to document it. ;) Here's a modified outline I tweaked with my above comments: Unit testing Zope Products with ZUnit by Lalo Martins Unit Testing What is Unit Testing Why do you want to unit test How should it be done Refactor mercilessly! (?) Writing Tests The TestCase class An Example TestCase Interfacing with the Zope environment Fixtures (?) The persistence problem - leaving traces behind (?) Grouping tests in TestSuites Wrapping it all up in a creator function Running the tests The TestRunner object TestResults objects Leaving objects behind for debugging ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZUnit - feedback convocation
On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Lalo Martins wrote: In the first section, remove "where does it come from" if the section involves the history of unit testing. I'd say the history lesson is out of scope. ;) I would add a section in the beginning "Why do you want to use it". The first section is the advocacy section; it will begin with "if you already do unit tests, you may want to skip this section". I'm not sure if the history lesson is out of scope, but "Why do you want to use it" is probably better. Hmm... actually in that case you may want to axe both "why" and the history. What does "refactor mercilessly!" mean? I'll explain that one of the benefits of unit testing extensively is that you can modify your code without fear (you'll know when it breaks). This section is more advocacy than technical. Ah, ok I like it. I wonder if "refactor" is the right word; it's very specific and it sounds like any kind of changing can be done. Next section... "Importing ZUnit" requires a whole section? I suggest axing it. Hmm. Yes. I would add an "example" section before moving into fitting it into Zope... No, you can't do a lot without interfacing with Zope. I'd add an example *after* interfacing with Zope. Or both, perhaps. Maybe one example in the end of each subsection, so we don't need any subsection titled "example". Oh, I was thinking of just a simple non-zope unit test to get the flavor, but now that I think about it that's out of scope. Yes, the example after would be better. What are "Fixtures"? A method where you make many tests in a single TestCase class. You setup a situation (the "fixture") in a method named "setup", then you do the tests, then you clean up in a method named "teardown". In the HiperDom tests, for example, I use a Fixture to do most of the tests, because I initialize the Template object in setup. Ah yes, I just went and RTFM. What is the "persistence problem"? If it is a bug that should be fixed in Zope then it probably shouldn't go in the documentation, if it is something the reader shouldn't do, then it should probably go into "interfacing with the Zope environment". A wart doesn't justify adding a new section just to add a sub-section to document it. ;) I don't consider this a bug in either Zope or ZUnit, it's just an "issue". snip I allocated a subsection for this because just explaining the problem is already somewhat convoluted, as you see above ;-) in a printed book, I'd make it a sidebar or something, but... Hmm. I guess my concern was because it was the only subsection of 'Fixtures'. Do fixtures need a more topical breakdown or are they simple enough to sum up in one section? Maybe we can think of some 'fixture use cases'. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Patch to avoid hypenation variables and more
On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Tino Wildenhain wrote: Hi there, finally I want to release my patch for the in-tag. I hope it finds its way into the source-tree. I was sick writing such ugly constructs as _[_['sequence-item']] and so on, so I patched DT_In.py and DT_InSV.py (in lib/python/DocumentTemplate) to use sequence_item as well. All hypenation variables have now a second representation with underscores instead of hypenation. I hope, some time we can drop these hypenation variables. Or drop DTML entirely. The second problem is if you put one in-tag into another. You have to use dtml-let oder REQUEST.set() with variables of the outher in-tag to be able to reference them in the inner loop. The code becomes very ugly this way. So my idea was to give the in-tag an optional argument, called "prefix" to prefix all the sequence-variables with a custom identifier. So you can write: dtml-in some_sequence prefix="outer_" dtml-in some_other_sequence dtml-var outer_sequence_item:dtml-var sequence_item /dtml-in the inner sequence /dtml-in the outer sequence What do you think about this? It's cool. Your patches are big and therefore, naturally, are a bit worrisome to us in terms of checking them into the core. Do you have a set of test DTML scripts that verify your patch? Say, a set of scripts that verifies backwards compatibity, and a set of scripts that verifies the new functionality? I would suggest even investigating "ZUnit" and creating DTML unit tests. Then we would *really* love you. ;) -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Public CVS Zope won't compile (fwd)
On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Chris Gray wrote: Did a fresh checkout but "python w_pcgi.py" chokes at: Writing the pcgi resource file (ie cgi script), /home/cpgray/zope_cvs_run/Zope2/Zope.cgi chmod 0755 /home/cpgray/zope_cvs_run/Zope2/Zope.cgi Traceback (innermost last): File "w_pcgi.py", line 111, in ? if __name__=='__main__': main(sys.argv[0]) File "w_pcgi.py", line 109, in main import wo_pcgi; wo_pcgi.main(me) File "/home/cpgray/zope_cvs_run/Zope2/wo_pcgi.py", line 98 import comcontent.main(home, user, group) ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax Cheers and Beers, Chris Works dandy here, neither w_pcgi.py or wo_pcgi.py have been modified in over a year. I agree that the code your traceback reports on line 98 is a syntax error, but it doesn't match what is on line 98 in the CVS. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] IP address and US city name
Hung Jung Lu wrote: From: Bill Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hung Jung Lu wrote: Hi, I know that IP addresses in the USA follow a strict pattern of geographical locations. (Most other countries don't do that.) Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the table of IP addresses vs. city names? Whomever told you this was wrong. No Bill. You are the one that is wrong. :) Actually Hung, on this one he is right. I owned and operated an internet service provider for four years. There is no 'strict' policy of who gets what address block. Random companies in random cities at random times ask for, and recieve, random chunks of classless address space based on their need. It is true that this chunk of address space is then _usually_ assigned to only one geographic location, but there is no strict policy and no one keeps track of it in a big-brother database 'table' that maps this information for you. The companies themselves may keep track of which addresses go where, but they are not required to report this to anyone or to update some global directory when they change their network setup or move stuff around. Also, at the highest level are large organizations, phone companies, universities, government organizations, etc. In the case of companies, these organizations usually get a huge chunk of address space and them sell it off to other people, like, for example, GTE (a phone company) sells its addresses to Genuity (an ISP) which sells its addresses to Nap.net (an ISP) which sells its addresses to Collective Intelligence (the ISP I used to own) which sells its addresses to Dialogue, Inc. (an ISP owned by my buddy Adam). Adam was not require to report to me what or where or who he sold his addresses to, similarly I was not required to report that informtaion to Nap.net, who, in turn I presume, is not required to report the information on upward and so on. At the very highest level, the only information know is "GTE owns 200.x.x.x to 220.x.x.x". GTE is, geographicaly, the biggest phone company in the US, serving almost all of the rural mid-west. That said, there is a company that has intrusivly scanned the whole internet (globally, not just the US) and claims to have, using deduction, figured out where all the addresses are. I'm assuming their service is very expensive, not 100% accurate (because neworks move and get rewired) and it is targeted towards advertisers: http://slashdot.org/yro/00/11/06/0521235.shtml -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Installation and Startup
Norm LaDuke wrote: I have installed Zope on a 300Mhz K6 machine with 92 Megs of RAM running Windows 98. It seemed to install ok except that it didn't ask if I wanted to run as a service (as the documentation said it would). Could you point out to me, precisely, where the documentation says this so I can fix it? -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZUnit - feedback convocation
Lalo Martins wrote: Hi all I'trying to write a document on ZUnit and Unit Testing in general, following Michel's and Amos' documentation process. I wrote an outline, and now I'm stuck :-) anyone with a few free moments is welcome to take a look and send me some words. Also, anyone very interested in the subject is welcome to volunteer for editorial help (read the Process to know what this means). Where would we find this outline? Thank you. (BTW, if you can't understand what an "outline" is, read the process too. Oh what the heck. If you haven't read it, then read it, it's very cool reading anyway.) Thanks! -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Meta-data clarification and Interface interfaces
In my proposal: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/Interfaces/ExtensibleMetaData I mention interface object meta-data like pre/post conditions. This spurned a lot of interesting conversation, and I wanted to clarify some bits that I picked up from the thread. The proposal is not in any way trying to define what types of meta-data are interesting, this is, rightly, application dependent (for example, Zope would find security assertions interesting, other applications may not). The proposal is just proposing a mechanism for associating any kind of meta-data with an interface object. Dont get me wrong, the information on pre and post conditions was really interesting, especially Tim's description of Eiffel's particularly strong methedology that made me glad I don't work for the government. In the interest of clarifying what these interface objects are, I have created an Interface interface description: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/Interfaces/InterfaceInterface This describes interfaces, attributes and method objects and how they are used. I can forsee creating interface objects for these interface objects. The ones marked **Proposed** are the ones I am most interested in getting feedback on. Thanks! -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.org done broke
Oops. Sorry for the spam. Nothing to see here folks, move along. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] objectValues performance
Brett Carter wrote: Ok, I'll bite. Why doesn't the standard folder scale? Seems like a design flaw to me - why doesn't the default folder use catalogs or BTrees? -Brett Because massive scale is not a requirment of folders, they are meant to organize content for humans, not to be large-collection containers. A folder with 5000 elements is not very useful to a human. On a similar note, create 5000 files in a linux directory on a ext2 (standard) filesystem and then type 'ls'. You'll notice they don't scale very well either, which is why there are filesystems like ReiserFS. -Michel "Casey" == Casey Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Casey Brett Carter wrote: I have a folder with greater than 5000 ZClass instances in it. It takes 5mins to do an objectValues for every object in the folder - is there a higher perfomance call I could make? -Brett Casey Standard folder performance degrades pretty quickly once you get Casey a lot of objects in it. There are two solutions to this: Casey Subdivide your objects into multiple folders. Casey Use a BTreeFolder which should be much faster. Casey You can download the BTreeFolder product Casey here: http://www.zope.org/Members/hathawsh/BTreeFolder/ Casey hth, Casey Casey Duncan ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Interface Meta Data proposal
I've added a sub-proposal to the Interface proposal for describing additional meta-data with Interface objects: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/Interfaces/ExtesableMetaData Please comment about this interesting possibility. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Geeks] Interface Meta Data proposal
Chris McDonough wrote: Is security really a part of an object's interface? Maybe. Are examples? Also maybe. It's documentation, so specific systems that use interfaces may want to be able to extend the kinds of information they can associate with interface elements. I thought this was more of an implementation thing. These are good questions, I think these also have a great effect on the Zope 3 story. BTW, the whole idea of extensible meta-data on an interface element came from reading the Zope 3 story so far, and seeing the examples that include security assertions in an interface. Amos and I discussed it a bit and that's where the proposal came from. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] ZCatalog and LoginManager - be aware.
Oliver Bleutgen wrote: Hi, I just wanted to mention a IMO bad pitfall when using ZCatalog, for the sake of sparing others some time. I'm running Zope 2.2.2 with LoginManager with SQL in a subfolder and was getting the following error when trying to find dtml-documents into ZCatalog: Error Type: AttributeError Error Value: commit_sub Traceback (innermost last): File /home/local-extranet/web/zope3/Zope-2.2.2-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 222, in publish_module File /home/local-extranet/web/zope3/Zope-2.2.2-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 187, in publish File /home/local-extranet/web/zope3/Zope-2.2.2-src/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 221, in zpublisher_exception_hook (Object: Traversable) File /home/local-extranet/web/zope3/Zope-2.2.2-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 175, in publish File /home/local-extranet/web/zope3/Zope-2.2.2-src/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 235, in commit File /home/local-extranet/web/zope3/Zope-2.2.2-src/lib/python/ZODB/Transaction.py, line 261, in commit AttributeError: (see above) All other object-types (incuding dtml-methods) seem to work. I have put no restrictions on which files I want found, but restricting something to reduce the number of found objects helps. I fiddled around somewhat and discovered that disabling subtransactions in ZCatalog does help (required for using ZSQL Methods and ZCatalog in the same transaction). Yeah, that sux. I think this is a known limitation. I'm not sure. Now I use SQL-based LoginManager, but why on earth did it only fail on DTML-Documents? Is it because I have much more of them so only then ZCatalog's subtransactions come into play? Probably because sub transactions are only commited after a certain number of words or values are indexed, and your DTML documents were the only things that held words. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Python/Zope Interfaces
Dieter Maurer wrote: Michel Pelletier writes: Also, defining the interface seperately keep the two things apart, impementation and interface, and doesn't allow you to sneak in a new method unless you also sneak it into the interface, thus making a stronger "contract" with the user. I am a bit astonished by this statement: I know the "design by contract" concept from Bertrand Meyer, the Eiffel developper. In Eiffel, essential parts of the contract, among others method prototype, pre- and post-conditions as well as invariants are build directly into the language. A documentation tool extracts these parts from the source to generate the interface, for people that are only interested in how to use the class/method. Programms can be executed in a way, that the various (executable) contract parts can be checked at runtime. *THIS* provides for quite a strong contract. I cannot see, why the separation of interface and implementation should make the contract stronger. I do see, however, that it makes it more likely to be broken by the implementation. The "contract" is a policy. The mechanisms of interfaces should not require that the policy be "strong" or "weak". This is up to the contractor. I'm not sure if you are making these statement because you disagree with the current proposal or because you disagree with what I said above. What I said above was just a scenario, not necessarily any position I advocate. The current python interface proposal makes no statement on the strength of a contract. It sounds like you want your contracts to be strong, fine, but Python has no explict compile-time or run-time interface enforcement. The proposal in question is just trying to define how interfaces are defined, created, implemented, and used. Strong contractual enforcement is a minor, policy-specific decision. It is a very good thing to have the specification very near to the implementation -- as a permanent guide to the implementor. It is even better, when big parts of the specification becomes part of the executable code (as is the case for Eiffel's pre- and post-conditions). Maybe. I disagree in this case: this proposal states that interfaces are discoverable documentation, not language or policy enforcement. The less they can be tied to specific policies the more flexible they can be. Keep in mind, if you want run-time interface enforcement, you can *allways* add it with mxProxy or some other mechanism. If you *don't* want run-time interface enforcement and we made it a requirement, you'd be stuck. You can allways add, but you can rarely take away. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Lots more in the interfaces Wiki
Hello, I have added a lot more content to the interfaces wiki at: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/Interfaces/FrontPage (note, this is not the old interfaces wiki, which is link to from here). This wiki is the realization of last weeks interfaces proposal: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/Interfaces/OriginalProposal So far, I have gone pretty far into defining the first goal of the project "what is an interface". For those of you that are interested in looking at the prototype implementation, a new version can be downloaded from: http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/Products/Interfaces/ Some user and higher-fiber documentation can be found in the wiki. Please check out the wiki and let me know what you think about interfaces. These are important components that you will see a lot of in the future, so we want your input! -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] newbie question: Redirect from Python?
Paul Winkler wrote: seb bacon wrote: * Paul Winkler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [001127 19:54]: I want the user to be sent to a particular URL after calling the product's manage_add method. How can I do that? The URL I want is REQUEST['URL3']. I've tried RESPONSE.redirect(REQUEST['URL3']) but that's not it - the RESPONSE doesn't seem to exist here. sounds alright to me. are you calling it in quotes, e.g. dtml-var "RESPONSE.redirect(REQUEST['URL3'])" ? you shouldn't have to use the REQUEST to look up the variable, either: dtml-var "RESPONSE.redirect(URL3)" Thanks for the reply. OK, I didn't phrase the question correctly. I think it boils down to this: If I have a string that represents a URL, can I define a method of my product (in python, not in DTML) that redirects the browser to that URL? More details: My product code is based on Boring (like most newbies I guess). But manage_addBoring() does not do quite what I want. It returns self.manage_main(self, REQUEST), so they end up at a long and ugly URL that isn't where I want them to be anyway. Example: the user is at: http://localhost.localdomain:8080/Members/bobby Bobby then clicks on a button I've provided that says "Add Test Product". That sends him to the add form I've created. When Bobby submits the request from this form, the product is added and he's sent to http://localhost.localdomain:8080/Members/bobby/manage_addProduct/MyProduct/manage_main ...because manage_addMyProduct returns self.manage_main So I understand what's happening, but it's not what I want. I don't want to send him there, I want to send him back to http://localhost.localdomain:8080/Members/bobby So how can I do that from within the manage_addMyProduct method definition? The method gets a REQUEST argument, and I know that REQUEST['URL3'] is what I want because if I return that string, it prints the URL I want. I could do it by returning an HTML page with a redirect in the head but that seems like a horribly ugly solution. Looking through various Zope docs, I thought RESPONSE.redirect might work, but RESPONSE is not mentioned anywhere in Boring.py. Boring only uses REQUEST. So pass it RESPONSE: def manage_addMyProduct(self, blah, blah, REQUEST=None, RESPONSE=None): ... The publisher will automaticaly pass you RESPONSE if you ask for it as a method argument. Now use RESPONSE.redirect. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] DC request re: Objection to Python Script Name
Ron Bickers wrote: On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, Chris Withers wrote: To Hamish, the other Chris, and anyone else who's going to jump in on this. To be quite blunt, this has now been _decided_ as I understand it. So it's pointless to keep arguing and suggesting new and different names. We now _have_ a president and it's name is 'Python Script' ;-) With all due respect to everyone, this should not be considered a closed issue. It is. This is the kind of thing where it is impossible to make 100% of the participants happy, we regret that not everyone is going to go for it, but we *must* move forward. This issue is holding up Python Scripts, which is holding up the book, which is intimately tied to Zope 2.3, all of which is intimiately tied to my paycheck. My paycheck doesn't really have anything to do with it but I just thought I'd mention it. ;) My understanding is that there would be a vote for a name. We could not afford any further delay, and the last poll was a disaster. The author of Python Scripts (the majority of which were written before he worked at DC) rightly asserted his position and picked a name. I'm sure it wasn't easy for him, and there was lots of internal conflict; many in the company not liking 'Script' for many of the same reasons you do. Skipping that in the name of getting things moving after it was offered by Digital Creations seems to go against the open source nature of the product. That is tying a strong semantic relation between "open source" and "democratic". In my mind, the open source nature is that anyone can examine, author and contribute code to a project for peer review and inclusion. Evan did just that, he wrote most of what used to be called Python Methods before he worked at DC and contributed it freely under the open source mantra. I don't think voting has much to do with open source, it has worked for us (with the documentation poll) and failed for us (with what used to be called Python Methods) but we'll probably try it again. Not to mention that the name chosen does nothing to distinguish it from an everyday Python "script" outside of Zope, which is what sparked the name change to begin with. "It's not really a Python method, so let's change the name." Well, it's not just a "Python Script" either. It's Zopified. Just to clarify, in the Python language, there is no such thing as a "script". What you are thinking of as a "script" is really some hunk of data (probably a file) containing python code that contains either some platform specific hook to invoke the interpreter, or that you pass to the interpreter on the platform specific "command line". Neither of these things have anything to do with the language called Python. Once inside the interpreter, you are officially working with "modules". "Modules" and "methods" are real, defined, un-ambiguous Python objects defined in the Language Reference (http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/ref.html). Obviously, naming a Zope object "module" or "method" would be a bad idea, and therein lies the problem. "Script" is just un-bound, non-python specific, vague lingo that everybody uses to describe a chunk of code in just about any language, on any platform. In this case, the platform is Zope, the chunk of code is written in Python, and the "command line" is your web browser. I can sympathize with your feelings, but one of the reasons I don't like "Method" is because it's is OO specific; it is a very technical term. "ZMethod" is no better, even if it doesn't have the problem of clashing names with a python object (and barely not clashing at that!). We want to make using Zope easier. For the target audience we want to approach, if 1000 people pull down the add list and see "Python ZMethod" many more of them are going to scratch their heads about what the hell a ZMethod is than if they see "Python Script". "Oh, a python script? Cool! I've written some CGI scripts! Now I can go and read chapter six of the book 'Scripting Zope' and find out how to 'script the web'!" -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Objection to Python Script Name
Jason Cunliffe wrote: 2. Fixes the OReilly book in some sensible manner - add highly legible note on Page 1, update the index in useful manner to catch the differences. Oh I'll be doing that one, no worries there. 3. Will explain to me 100% clearly what difference there is now between a regular Python script and a 'Python Script' in Zope? There is no such thing as a "script" in the Python language (see the index of the "language reference" on the python site, you will find "method" and "module" but not "script"). "Script" is just a word that is informally and commonly used to refer to a chunk of code written in some language on some platform that is invoked by some action, possibly from a "command line" or by double clicking on an icon. In the case of a Zope Python Script, the code is written in python, the platform is Zope, and the "command line" is your web browser. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Newbie Question Fixed but continuing.
Dany Rioux wrote: Thanks Philipp and Jim, It worked! But... (there's always a but! :) I thought I was clever when I thought about naming my news files news999, news998 etc, thinking it would parse the directory and print the news sorted by their names. So news998 would be printed before news999 etc. It doesn't. deleted questions because it's fixed :) /deleted Now this too is fixed. I just discovered the "sort=" thingie. One thing would sure be helpful, a Guide explaining all the subtags in a tag. Like what can be used in a dtml-var or dtml-in and params for each subtag. http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/AppendixA.html This DTML reference is also included in the Online Help System with Zope 2.4b1 and beyond. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] Interface localization: zzLocale 0-0-4a release
Can we see a screenshot of what the Zope managment interface looks like in Japanese? (just a personal curiousity) -Michel Yves-Eric Martin wrote: Hello, Since the SkinnableAndLocalizable project is on hold, and since people here in Japan and other non-english speaking countries have repeatedly expressed their wish for localized versions of Zope, I decided to continue zzLocale development and turn it into an actually usable Product. Here is a big step towards it: zzLocale release 0-0-4a. zzLocale is a Zope locale support Product that provides a framework for Zope interface internationalization. Main new features are: o New failover code that should break less stuff (previous version broke various Products, like ZGadflyDA or LoginManager. All reported broken Products are now working) o Localization of management tabs o Localization of buttons (all should work now). o Fixed hideous bug that prevented uninstall Altogether, this should hopefully make this version actually usable: a few things are still not internationalized (like MessageDialogs), but it should *work*. Please email me if you can still find things that break when using zzLocale. Download urls: from zope.org: http://www.zope.org/Members/yemartin/zzLocale from zope.ne.jp: http://www.zope.ne.jp/users/yemartin/zzLocale Note that no actual localization file is provided with this release. Language packs will be made available as we receive translations. (If you have a few hours to kill, how about translating Zope into your mother tongue (if it is not English)? ;) ). Cheers, -- Yves-Eric Martin Digital Garage Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Still More Problems On the Install...
Ben Ocean wrote: At 11:14 AM 11/19/2000 -0500, you wrote: Are you sure you need the source version? The binary is easier to install. Well, that *was* easier (now that I figured out which is which). First of all, apologies to all you hard-core techies for whom this is so easy, *but*... I got as far as *./install* and all worked fine (on the binary). Now what??? I've combed the README and INSTALL texts looking for answers, been on the Web site, still can't figure out what I'm supposed to do next. All of your questions so far are answered in the Book. http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/UsingZope.html You've gotten to the section "Starting Zope on UNIX". -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] The new Python Method renaming Poll
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/Scratch/Poll Hope Netscape doesn't mess up my formatting on the rest of this. The above link goes to the HTML version if it does! -Michel The New and Improved Python Method Poll We recently held a poll on Zope.org about renaming Python Methods. The poll turned out to be a bit of a disaster for several reasons, but at least we learned our lesson and this time, hopefully, we're gonna do it the right way. *Why* do we want to rename Python Methods? We want to rename Python Methods because they are not methods in Python. There are already things in the Python language called "Methods" and what we currently call "Python Methods" do not look or act much like real methods written in Python. To illustrate the point, Jim recently told me that he went up to PythonLabs to visit, and when he showed them Python Methods their reaction was "These aren't Python Methods.", and they should know! So we have two choices: 1) Change the behavior of Python Methods so that they look and act like methods in Python, instead of what they are now, or 2) Keep the existing behavior and change the name. We discarded the first choice because we like the existing behavior, we find it useful for through the web development, and we have invested a lot of thought and engineering into it. Changing the behavior would effect lots of things, so we decided to go with the second choice. The second choice is good because it requires little labor, but it is not an *easy* choice to make, especially for us since we're all pretty biases and geek-headed. This is where you come in. We want you to vote from a selection of internal and community solicited new names for Python Methods. What was wrong with the last Poll? In the last poll, "Method" won "hands down":http://www.zope.org/Members/hathawsh/poll/viewStats. But the poll was obviously a bit biased, no justification was given as to *why* we wanted to rename Python Methods and "Method" was mentioned all over the poll, it was even a choice! To quote Jim, the poll was a lot like asking the question "Who is buried in Grant's tomb?". Duh. Also, there were lots of candidate names, but with no context, who could really choose one? There were no justification for names, and many of them that were fairly reasonable scored almost dead last. So, we're gonna do things a little differently in this poll. How does the new poll work? *Once again* we will be soliciting names from inside DC and from the community. In addition to submitting a name, we encourage you to also submit a one-liner description or justification for you name, it can be in any form, Haiku poetry, a Dutch sea-shanty, a Monty Python quote, anything *relevant* to encourage people to vote for your entry. We will also have a front-page blurb on the poll that you must read in order to vote. It will describe the reasons and justification's behind the new poll, and why we want to rename Python Methods. "Method" will not be an option, so please don't submit it. When is the new poll? The new poll will start on Monday, November 27th, 2000 and go until the following Friday. Name submission are due by the Friday before the poll, November 24th, 2000. How do I submit a candidate? Send an email with the subject line "Python Method name candidate" to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]":mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. Your email must contain at least the name you propose, but it may also contain a *short* paragraph justifying why you think your name should be chosen. I will compile the list of candidates the Friday before the Poll begins. Your welcome and encouraged to discuss possibilities on the mailing lists, but please, since I don't have all the time in the world to troll the list, if you don't send me an email, I will not add your candidate to the list! Thanks, and Good Luck to all! ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] The new Python Method renaming Poll
Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: +---[ Michel Pelletier ]-- | | asking the question "Who is buried in Grant's tomb?". Duh. Perhaps for the non-americans, someone can tell us why the answer to this is 'nobody.' Oops. Ulysses S. Grant is buried in Grant's tomb. He was President of the US from 1869-1877. The question "Who's buried in Grant's tomb?" is from, I belive, a Marx Brothers' skit. The answer is supposed to be obvious (to Americans, at least). -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] How do I form an XML-RPC query to a remote server?
Tony McDonald wrote: Hi all, I'm experimenting with collating data from a remote database that uses XML-RPC. I can send it messages like; import xmlrpclib medweb = xmlrpclib.Server("http://bogus.server.com") medweb.getImages('scar') '?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?\015\012\011data\015\012\011\011titleMedwebb Images/title \0 (lots of stuff snipped) But I just can't figure out how to send the XML version of the same query, ie ?XML VERSION="1.0"? methodCall methodNamegetimages/methodName params param valuestringscar/string/value /param /params /methodCall to the server. How does it fail? Did you set the right content type (text/xml I think?)? Why do you want to send a hand built query to the server? That's what xmlrpclib is for. -Michel I've got a nasty feeling that when I get told how to do this, I'm going to slap my forehead bloody hard Do what I do, where a helmet to work. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Are there any man pages out there for these functions?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Howdy Folks, I'm looking for man pages on these dtml functions? I'm finding it terribly difficult and frustration to figure out how to properly program in dtml since I can't do a man on a funtion (ie:man objectValues) and read about what parameters the function is expection from me. I'd like to browse the dtml man pages and see what functions are available to me. I've been reading all kinds of documents for the last week but I get the feeling that Zope is somewhat immature as a product. So, any ideas about those man pages? Yes, in Zope, click the 'Help' button. On the left is a navigation tree, open 'Zope Help' and then open 'API Documentation'. For documentation on 'objectValues' for example, look at the 'ObjectManager' API screen. It's not very discoverable; we need to work on making a better help interface. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book (Error and Suggestion)
The Doctor What wrote: At least I think it's an error (either in my understanding or in the book). First off, I think the books great. Finally something that's trying to explain what's going on. Zope looks so cool, but it's been hard for a hardcode PHP and Perl programmer like me to get my brain around it. Anyway, my suggestion is that all the image URLs be fixed so that your book can be easily mirrored with normal web-tools. Perhaps even offer a version that's downloadable. When I went to mirror it, my mirror software choked on image urls like: http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/SimpleExamples.html/Figures/5-7.png The mirror was so I can use it at home where I don't have a reasonable net access (very flaky 56k, it hoses up frequently as it's through work). The error or problem that I have run into is that I can't get the Guest Book in chapter 5 to work. They python method listed there does not work for me. I'm using Debian Unstable (Woody) with these versions of packages: ii zope 2.2.2-3The Z Object Publishing Environment ii zope-bytecodeh 0.1.7-2Rewrite bytecode of functions to do unlikely ii zope-pythonmet 0.1.7-2Allows ZopeMethods to be written in plain Py That's bytecodehacks and pythonmethods on the bottom there. This is an old version of python method. You need to d/l python method out of cvs in order to get the book example working. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] [Fwd: [Zope-dev] Vote on the new name for Python Methods!]
Please vote folks! -Michel Shane Hathaway wrote: Being Election Day in the United States, now is a good time to vote on the new name for Python Methods. Python Methods are a relatively new concept for Zope. They give you the features of DTML, such as through-the-web editing and security, while providing a familiar, refined syntax. But before we can fold them into the Zope core, you need to help us choose the right name for them. Some have voiced the opinion that the name "Python Method" is confusing because it can just as easily refer to methods in standard Python modules. There are some interesting alternatives, so please cast your vote! http://www.zope.org/Members/hathawsh/poll ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZClasses not copyable - why?
Philipp Auersperg wrote: It is not posible to copy ZClasses, when I try to copy a ZClass in the Management Interface I get the error:'The Item 'blorf' does not support that operation' I digged into that and found that in the ZClass.py there exists a method def cb_isCopyable: pass I was so crude to replace the pass with a 'return 1', restarted Zope and could now copy ZClasses as I wanted it. - My first question now: (zero indexed questions, I love it) 0.Why are ZClasses not copyable? I don't know. 1.Do I shoot into my foot with my hack or is that OK? I don't know, but I suspect you're aiming the gun in that general direction. - And now my second question I am working on a ZClass-intensive project and sometimes I want to add/remove base classes of a ZClass without redefining the whole class manually. The usual method for this is to subclass from a class you define in Python, then you can change the base classes of that python class easily. For this you need to make a python product with your class in it and initialize the product, registering the class as subclassable. There's probably a how-to on it somewhere, otherwise you can check out lib/python/Products/ZCatalog/__init__.py to see how the ZCatalog class is made ZClass subclassable. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Robin Becker wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michel Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Robin Becker wrote: ... I belive all reference to xslt methods has been removed. Python methods will be part of the 2.3 release, and Perl methods are mentioned in the book as being a component add on that must be installed. well I think I read about them in the recently released beta, not how they work, but I didn't pluck the name out of thin air. Ah you are correct, I just removed the references to them. I thought they were purged when we removed the xml chapter. So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could use to check the book? Check out Zope and Python Methods from CVS. Perl Methods can be downloaded from the Perl wiki on (I believe) dev.zope.org. -Michel I'm using the CVS checkout of Zope2, where are python methods in the CVS tree? I'm not sure, I suspect you would ahve to check them out of a branch, and I don't know how to do that from the public CVS. I'll make some inquiries. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
"Jan H. Haul" wrote: The point is that we should be able to give meaningful feedback, like "page 147, line 15: there should be their" (a totally made-up example, do not go hunting for that one). It just does not do to quote full sentences and have the copyeditor search for all that stuff. Too much wasted time on both ends. Jan, We have very little experience in documentation delivery and maintenance. It's sad but true. We are however working to resolve the problem. Please take a look at the documentation process wiki, where we have a section for discussing delivery issues: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/DocumentationProcess/FrontPage Look under 'CurrentIssues'. Please place any suggestions or ideas you have there. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Robin Becker wrote: I agree about the numbering, but even more I would like to know which version of Zope the book is supposed to be about. When it hits the shelves, it will be about 2.3. After that, we will maintain the book to be in sync with the current release according to the as-yet-unofficial documentation development process: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/DocumentationProcess/FrontPage It mentions stuff such as XSLT methods, perl methods and python methods none of which are in an official zope. I belive all reference to xslt methods has been removed. Python methods will be part of the 2.3 release, and Perl methods are mentioned in the book as being a component add on that must be installed. So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could use to check the book? Check out Zope and Python Methods from CVS. Perl Methods can be downloaded from the Perl wiki on (I believe) dev.zope.org. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] More updates on documentation documentation
I've added more updates on documentation and worked in the comments recieved from Shane. To help you help us, I added some text on where we need the most attention, check the CurrentIssues for more info. http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/DocumentationProcess/FrontPage This process will define how we create documentation at Digital Creations, and will have far-reaching effects on how each of us contributes, maintains, and understands documentation. So far, Amos and I have proposed a prototype documentation process for synthesis, authoring, editing, reviewing, delivering, and maintaining documentation based on our experiences writing the Zope Book. We have tried hard to be as realistic as possibly in defining a very workable process, but our experience is obviously limited to one artifact, and the pain of living with no real process to date. We would really like to hear what you all have to say about our proposal and our prototype. If you think our prototype has holes in it, please leave your comments in the wiki and we will take them very seriously. We would like to hear comments from: The PythonLabs folks, since they have lots of experience authoring, maintaining and delivering extremely useful documentation. The ZDP folks, who represent the segment of the community most interested in documenting Zope. The DC geeks, since this process will effect, fundamentally, how we all do our jobs. The community developers, since they represent an audience for whom we have little documentation, and where we will focusing much of our upcomming efforts. The community users, since they represent the need for the highest clarity, best documentation, and because they represent the majority audience. In other words, we want to hear from you all! Our goal is to make documentation one of Zope's best features, so let us know how you think we can do that! Thanks, -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] insert but updates don't work
Graham Chiu wrote: I have this rather curious problem with Zope 2.1.3 on WinNT. I have a zsql query which returns a number of records. I want to do an update on the same table that is being queried for each record returned, but get an authentication challenge that I can not pass. If instead I do, eg, an insert into another table with each value returned, it works fine. Is there something special about sql updates? There shouldn't be, are you using DTML in both methods? If so, I suspect one of the methods is using DTML which requires higher authentication privledges. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] UML
Douglas Daniel Del Frari wrote: Greetings! I am graduation student and I come using the platform zope for development of systems directed to education. Cool. One of the main doubts when using zope, not only the syntax, but also as to use it to develop applications using methodologies (former UML). As to use concepts of Objects Oriented : inheritance, aggregation, dependence...? Using its it of management screen? I'm not sure what you mean Douglas, do you want to know: 1) If we apply a design methedology to Zope or 2) How you can apply a design methedology to Zope? -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] zope book AppendixA error
Didier Georgieff wrote: Hello, I guess DC people is already aware, but i get an error since yesterday while pointing to ZB/AppendixA.html Document Template Parse Error invalid parameter: "="Expression"]...", for tag dtml-let [Name=Variable][Name="Expression"]..., on line 421 of AppendixA.html Fixed. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] error in Zope book
michael angelo ruberto wrote: in chapter 5 the example Creating a File Library has an error in the sorting method. ---ERROR --- dtml-in expr="objectValues('File')" ~this should be dtml-in expr="PARENTS[0].objectValues(['File'])" ~it doesn't work otherwise. The reason why it doesn't is because you are using a DTML Document instead of a DTML Method: DTML can help you save time maintaining this library. Create an *index_html* DTML Method in the *Files* folder to list all the ^^^ files in the library:: -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope-dev] Documentation Documentation
Greetings, Amos and I have done some work in the fishbowl this week. We have started a new project to define the process for writing Zope documentation. This fishbowl project can be found at: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/DocumentationProcess/FrontPage The idea here is to open up as much as possible the process for determining the process of writing documentation. In case you don't follow that, let me put it a different way: We are using the Zope fishbowl process to develop a *new* process for writing documentation. One of the goals of this new process is to work itself into the existing fishbowl process for Zope projects, so that everyone has a clear documentation vision. All this gets a bit weird; meta-documentation and developing a process with The Process in order to modify The Process, but you'll get the idea if you read the wiki. What this is *not* is a roadmap for existing or future documentation artifacts. In other words, if you looking for juicy bits on the Developer's Guide or some other discreet Zope documentation artifact, you won't find it here. Because no process exists yet for writing documentation, we have not addressed these issues. When this project is completed, we will have a complete roadmap that everyone can understand for writing documentation, and then we will address the issues of actual documentation artifacts, like where they belong in CVS and format issues etc. So please check it out and leave your comments in the Wiki. Thanks, -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Fred Yankowski wrote: I agree completely that the Zope Book beta will get more reviewers, and better feedback to the authors, if it is available as PDF. I agree, but this is completely out of our hands and we must focus more on content issues at this point then distribution issues. All of these problems will get solved in the comming months, they just won't get solved today. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Tim Lynch wrote: I wholeheartedly agree with Jason and Chris. I would very much appreciate a PDF version that could be easily printed, or read with Adobe's Reader. I hope there is no hesitation over making a PDF version available because of fear it will cut into sales of the bound volume. I think it would be just the opposite. I can easily think of examples (the original Tcl/Tk book comes first to mind) where the printed copy closed the sale of the bound volume for me. I do not know what the reasons is. I do know that when the book hits the shelf, it will go under an open content license and we will be free to distribute it in a myriad of flavors and you will have the freedom to do with it what you please (according to the license). I'll be purchasing multiple copies of the Zope book for my shop regardless. Thanks. ;) -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Jason Cunliffe wrote: - Original Message - From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not yet. I think that O'Reilly doesn't want us to produce any more public versions of the book until it is published. I'm double checking with them right now. Take a look at the copyright verbage on each book page to see what I'm talking about. Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable This is a really good point. Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them. How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked: 'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or commercial distribution' This is a good idea and probably a good compromise, but this would require us taking the time to negotiate it with O'Reilly and engineer a stx-pdf converter and pre-empt alot of work we have lined up for the book and other documentation efforts. With the existing setup, we don't have to worry about this for a couple months and we don't have to stir the shit with O'Reilly. The number of people who are likely to 'bootleg' the Zope book must be tiny. I agree, and honestly, Amos and I don't care about the bootlegging or book sales revenue. It is also not our job to enforce the rules; I would chuckle to hear about people 'bootlegging' ilicit PDF copies of the book. Most will want to see the book sales thrive, Yeah, NY Times bestseller list!!! so that Zope grows and gets the wider recognition it deserves.And to save time and money when developing Zope projects. For such sophisticated 'free' software, a well written, well edited book is a trivial price to pay. The issue is how to get the best final copy to the printer in timely manner. Well... from your perspective (and ours) but from O'Reilly's I think they're woried about *who* the first person to print that best final copy is. Those are the people they are worried about bootlegging the book, not you, they _know_ you'll buy a copy. ;) If we open content it now, someone could beat ORA to the shelves by a week and undercut a sizable percentage of sales and all they would ahve to do is put ORAs name on the cover, but they don't get any money. I feel your pain on all issues. A couple more months and this will all go away. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Wolfgang Strobl wrote: On 31 Oct 2000, at 10:39, Amos Latteier wrote: I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is printed. It's gone. I'll recheck with them. No need to. But what is the meaning of This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at." in the announcement? That was a joke. Sorry. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Chris Withers wrote: There a PDF of it anywhere? No, we won't produce one until the book goes to an open content license when it hits the shelf. -Michel cheers, Chris Michel Pelletier wrote: Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. Enjoy, -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] Streaming?
Lalo Martins wrote: Never mind, I found it. Just for the record, if anyone else needs this: snip I don't know if this is documented somewhere, but it does what I wanted. It is documented in the online help system, under API documentation, under the 'Response' object. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope] Zope Book Beta
Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. Enjoy, -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] dtml-while
Diego Rodrigo Neufert wrote: Why there isnt a dtml-while function in Zope? DTML is not meant to be used for general purpose, logic programming. It's a presentation and layout language. Additionally, a while construct would allow you to create indeterminate loops: dtml-while 1 ... /dtml-while and you're not allowed to loop indefinately in DTML. It's against the rules. dtml-in does all the looping you need over a python sequence, since DTML doesn't let you build infinite sequences, all loops terminate. The solution to your problem is to you Python Methods. http://dev.zope.org/Members/4am/PythonMethod Python does have a while construct and is indented for programming logic. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope-dev] The Great Python (and Perl) Method Renaming Poll
We will be conducting a community poll to decide what to call Python (Perl, insert your language here) Methods. Many candidates have been discussed, but I'm afraid I don't have enough time to cull all the candidates from the discussions. So, before the poll, we are calling for nominiations from the community. Please send me an email containing one or more candidate names. These names will be added to the list. No pre-screening will be done, so please exercise some discretion if your favorite name is more tounge-in-cheek than practical (you never know what the masses will decide though!). Later this week, I will create a web poll where you can vote for your favorite. thanks, -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope] The Great Python (and Perl) Method Renaming Poll
We will be conducting a community poll to decide what to call Python (Perl, insert your language here) Methods. Many candidates have been discussed, but I'm afraid I don't have enough time to cull all the candidates from the discussions. So, before the poll, we are calling for nominiations from the community. Please send me an email containing one or more candidate names. These names will be added to the list. No pre-screening will be done, so please exercise some discretion if your favorite name is more tounge-in-cheek than practical (you never know what the masses will decide though!). Later this week, I will create a web poll where you can vote for your favorite. thanks, -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope-dev] Re: Michel's Reply
Chris Withers wrote: From: Michel Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hmm. I thought this was a internal series of emails, I just now noticed that zope-perl got cc:ed on them somewhere in the middle. Oh well, it is some good discussion; I allways like to stir the shit! -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Python and Perl scripts
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'Script' objects make a lot of sense, they don't overload the concept of methods, they describe an action that people commonly want to do (script the web) and they clear up a lot of potential confusion for newbie and old-hat alike. Oh, yuck! Now we have to explain why PythonScript is safe, and JavaScript sucks rocks (from a security standpoint). The proposal is not for PythonScript but a "Python Script". We are not inventing a new language, this is python, we are just coming up with the name for an object. Don't capitalize it and you'll see what I mean. Go write a python script. I'm gonna write a python script that handles this HTML form. If we do this with a python script instead of a DTML method, it will be much clearer. Wow, this perl script has lots of slashes in it. And from common web convention, it would appear that PythonScript would run on the client side, rather than the server side. Since the -let suffix appears to have taken on a server side connotation, perhaps that can be used. Hmm. Yes I agree the -let suffix may have a sttronger server side flavor, but I disagree that the word script has any strong connection to the client only. Python Function is not quite right, as it is fairly common (for me, at least) to define some helper functions in a Python Method. But it is better than Python Script. Function is just as technical as method. These are OO techncial programming terms (function less than method). The idea is to lower the bar for people using Zope. People who only know HTML will be much more likely to grok what a script is than a method. We want to avoid elitism. Method is total OO elitism, function less so because it's very language neutral, and script is like plain vanilla ice cream, everyone gets it. Like chocolate and coconut-shaving covered almonds, technical details mixed in with your ice-cream will appeal only to a smaller crowd. It will not help define what 'ice cream' is. It will turn away a group of users who may have never know they could mix in sardines and sweet tarts. Technical details before the key idea is explained is *dangerous* belive me, and it is the pitfall of all existing Zope documentation to date. The new DC documentation motto is "Explain key ideas in simple terms." Method is not a simple term. So, I guess my preferences would be: PythonSafeScriptlet PythonScriptlet PythonSafeScript PythonSafeFunction PythonFunction PythonBundle PythonMethod PythonScript in descending order of preference. I'll add these to the list of candidates. Thanks! -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Python and Perl scripts
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip good discussion Now we just need a generic term, which will not cause other confusions later on down the road for the concept. I really don't like script, especially next to a language name (in the web domain). You don't like function (which was not my suggestion). Thingie seems a bit too non- descriptive. Widget has technical meaning. Perhaps task or job are suitable, as in Safe Python Task Safe Python Job Safe Python Subtask Safe Python Function Safe Python Script Then external methods, which are often also not methods, can become Flexible Python Task Flexible Python Job Flexible Python Subtask Flexible Python Function Flexible Python Script But if you really want to use Tame Snake Thingy, and Wild Snake Thingy, go ahead, but please do not credit me in the documentation! Well they'll all go on the list of candidates! Thanks for your input, I kinda like task... As another obesrvation, substituting script for method is not really all that helpful for the other (misnamed) method, DTML Method. DTML Script is just not all that much clearer! Rumor has it DTML Methods are going to be renamed to "DTML Template" or something like that. Keep in mind also that we are moving towards a new architecture with "Documents" and "Templates" (ala HyperDOM). I think Scripts fits right in there: Documents, Templates and Scripts or Documents, Templates and Methods ? -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope] O'Reilly Book Tecnical Reviewers
Greetings, O'Reilly is looking for 4 or 5 technical reviewers for the book. http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/ Technical reviewers get paid either a small honorarium or get free copies of the book (I am unaware of the exact details). I'm sure this message will elicit a *flood* of candidates, and I'm afraid we can't accept them all (of course, that doesn't mean you can't do it for free ;). Further, this will be a time consuming task, requiring you to scrutinize all details, try examples, etc. You will probably give more effort than you are monitarily compensated with, but you will also get unending glory and mucho zen master points from your zopista peers. So please consider this opertunity to work directly with us to make a great book. If you are interested in the sweat and the glory, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject "I Wanna Be A Technical Reviewer", and maybe a brief bio about you, your Zope experience and (bonus points) if you've every technically reviewed a book before. Thanks! -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] What Products created What Permissions
Chris Withers wrote: Michael Bernstein wrote: On a slightly different note, I think that the permissions list should be viewable in two more ways: A view where permissions are grouped into 'subjects', (for example all Perhaps a better idea is that Permissions are classes that inherit from super class permissions, so permission could be laid out in a heirarchical fasion. Permission Add Add Foos Edit Edit Bars Delete Delete Bobs View etc... we've thought about this before. implementation makes my brain hurt. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )