Re: [9fans] Woes of New Language Support

2009-07-26 Thread andrey mirtchovski
diacritics (combining characters) are a real mess in Unicode. with so much space in the format why did they have to go this route, i wonder? erik mentioned cyrillic. i did have an old church slavonic bible text i was attempting to display correctly on Plan 9 sometime in 2003-4. top is x11 with

Re: [9fans] Woes of New Language Support

2009-07-26 Thread Salman Aljammaz
erik quanstrom wrote: yes. this is a problem. unfortunately the unicode guys took the position that codepoint is divorced from glyphs unfortunately, this case isn't as bad as it gets. e.g. archaic cryllic letters have transliterations like ^^A in unicode. would three hats on an A be

Re: [9fans] Someone let the domain go

2009-07-26 Thread Bruce Ellis
the crack support team were busy brucee . On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:08 PM, aku...@mail.nanosouffle.net wrote: Yes, apparently as far back as March/April of 2001. don't ask me why I know ak

[9fans] pc with floppy but without cd/dvd

2009-07-26 Thread fgergo
Of course everybody is entitled to his opinion, though geoff wrote an implicit question and if nobody answers, I suggest to kill this thread and accept what geoff did. If you peek in the archives on unused mechanisms, you can see that geoff's step makes the most sense in the 9fans context.

Re: [9fans] Woes of New Language Support

2009-07-26 Thread Akshat Kumar
what is the total number of stealth characters like nsa? if it'not too unreasonable, it might be good enough to steal part of the operating system or application reserved areas. Any consonant should be able to become a half-consonant, but only when followed by another consonant. In the TTF

Re: [9fans] installation on SATYA disk failed

2009-07-26 Thread Akshat Kumar
Geoff, Please do not kill the floppy install option. I have a few computers that are not able to boot from CD, but can do so from floppy. I think the few people that do like to run Plan 9 natively, like myself, perhaps do so on older computers where this is likely the case. do it for the make

Re: [9fans] Woes of New Language Support

2009-07-26 Thread Akshat Kumar
Please disregard the question, kbmap perhaps? in my last post. I quickly realised that kbmap is only for inputs, while I'm discussing plain old output from every other source. partying too much ak

Re: [9fans] Woes of New Language Support

2009-07-26 Thread erik quanstrom
to be fair to the unicode people, this decoupling of glyphs and codepoints is (i think) the most straightforward way to implement some languages like arabic, where the glyphs for characters depend on their position within a word. that is, a letter at the beginning of a word looks different

Re: [9fans] pc with floppy but without cd/dvd

2009-07-26 Thread tlaronde
FWIW, there is the solution to bootstrap the install with another mean on a floppy. For example, using GRUB with serial line to load a plan9 install kernel (not tested). Or to use etherboot (gPXE) on a floppy to load a PXE version. Just to say that the remove of the floppy mean doesn't render

Re: [9fans] installation on SATYA disk failed

2009-07-26 Thread erik quanstrom
On Sun Jul 26 02:12:21 EDT 2009, bval...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest that you keep the floppy-install option. If Plan 9 is installed, its normally on a virtual machine, or on an older computer somewhere in the garage, often with floppy-drives only. But if its time consuming to support it... do

Re: [9fans] Woes of New Language Support

2009-07-26 Thread tlaronde
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 09:48:23AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: my opinion (not that i'm entitled to one here) is that the unicode guys screwed up. unicode is not consistant. explain why there are two code points sigma. 03c3 greek small letter sigma 03c2 greek small letter final sigma

Re: [9fans] Woes of New Language Support

2009-07-26 Thread erik quanstrom
On Sun Jul 26 10:14:51 EDT 2009, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 09:48:23AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: my opinion (not that i'm entitled to one here) is that the unicode guys screwed up. unicode is not consistant. explain why there are two code points sigma.

Re: [9fans] Woes of New Language Support

2009-07-26 Thread erik quanstrom
the real problem isn't in viewing them however, but comes when you start searching for them: it's easy to search for ë (e-umlaut) for example, but what if it's described as e+U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS? the answer is the UTS#18 Regular Expressions technical standard which probably contributes

Re: [9fans] installation on SATYA disk failed

2009-07-26 Thread hiro
All my floppy drives died and were thus disposed some years ago.

Re: [9fans] Woes of New Language Support

2009-07-26 Thread Nathaniel W Filardo
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 09:48:23AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: to be fair to the unicode people, this decoupling of glyphs and codepoints is (i think) the most straightforward way to implement some languages like arabic, where the glyphs for characters depend on their position within a

Re: [9fans] p9p vac troubles, possible fix and questions?

2009-07-26 Thread Russ Cox
Fixed in http://code.swtch.com/plan9port/changeset/c9f799b3ad09/ Thanks.

Re: [9fans] Woes of New Language Support

2009-07-26 Thread Jack Johnson
If I'm reading you right, you're saying it might be easier if everything were encoded as combining (or maybe more aptly non-combining) codes, regardless of language? So, we might encode 'Waffles' as w+upper a f f l e s and let the renderer (if there is one) handle the presentation of the case

Re: [9fans] installation on SATYA disk failed

2009-07-26 Thread Ethan Grammatikidis
I forgot the obvious: Install a bootloader capable of booting CD-ROMs to a floppy. -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.

Re: [9fans] installation on SATYA disk failed

2009-07-26 Thread tlaronde
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 08:51:54PM +0100, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: I forgot the obvious: Install a bootloader capable of booting CD-ROMs to a floppy. This won't help if the BIOS doesn't support El Torito, since a bootloader has generally no drivers (except for ethernet perhaps), and since

Re: [9fans] Woes of New Language Support

2009-07-26 Thread erik quanstrom
On Sun Jul 26 14:40:56 EDT 2009, knapj...@gmail.com wrote: If I'm reading you right, you're saying it might be easier if everything were encoded as combining (or maybe more aptly non-combining) codes, regardless of language? So, we might encode 'Waffles' as w+upper a f f l e s and let the

[9fans] how to fix: 'arena arenas00 creation time after last write time'

2009-07-26 Thread Corey
The following is being printed to the console non-stop: err 2: arena arenas00 creation time after last write time ... and I saw this during bootup: arena arenas00: header is out-of-date Apparently my clock/date was set a day ahead when I installed the terminal. How do I correct the