Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-08 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
Dan Cross wrote in : |On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:37 AM Charles Forsyth | wrote: |> It was the different characteristics of hard drives, even decent \ |> SATA, compared to SSD and nvme that I had in mind. ... |In short, when you change storage technologies, assumptions that were |made with, s

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-08 Thread Bakul Shah
Things like wear leveling are done by the FTL (flash translation layer) in the firmware. Other things it does: erase before write, logical to physical mapping, erasing blocks, garbage collection (moving live data around to free up whole blocks) etc. Typically ease blocks are 128KB or larger but

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-08 Thread Dan Cross
On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:37 AM Charles Forsyth wrote: > It was the different characteristics of hard drives, even decent SATA, > compared to SSD and nvme that I had in mind. Since details have been requested about this. I wouldn't presume to speak from Charles, but some of those differences _ma

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-08 Thread Charles Forsyth
It was the different characteristics of hard drives, even decent SATA, compared to SSD and nvme that I had in mind. On Sat, 8 Apr 2023 at 15:30, Charles Forsyth wrote: > zfs is very big, complicated and the code looks ancient. I did not enjoy > working with it. > > On Sat, 8 Apr 2023 at 08:51,

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-08 Thread Charles Forsyth
zfs is very big, complicated and the code looks ancient. I did not enjoy working with it. On Sat, 8 Apr 2023 at 08:51, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > fixing another couple deadlocks makes you finally consider ditching fossil? > zfs storage isn't always permanent either, for example if you use >

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-08 Thread hiro
fixing another couple deadlocks makes you finally consider ditching fossil? zfs storage isn't always permanent either, for example if you use encryption or deduplication. On 4/6/23, Lucio De Re wrote: > On 4/6/23, n...@pixelhero.dev wrote: >> Quoth Charles Forsyth : >>> fussing about certain thi

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-05 Thread Lucio De Re
On 4/6/23, n...@pixelhero.dev wrote: > Quoth Charles Forsyth : >> fussing about certain things for hard drives that probably don't matter >> for >> SSD let alone nvme > > I am once again asking you to be more specific, please :) > > I have Plans for improving venti for myself, it'd be great to act

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-05 Thread noam
Quoth Charles Forsyth : > fussing about certain things for hard drives that probably don't matter for > SSD let alone nvme > certain things I am once again asking you to be more specific, please :) I have Plans for improving venti for myself, it'd be great to actually have a specific list of issu

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-05 Thread Charles Forsyth
fussing about certain things for hard drives that probably don't matter for SSD let alone nvme On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 at 23:04, wrote: > Quoth Charles Forsyth : > > Fossil works hard to do certain things that now we probably wouldn't > bother > > to do. > > Such as? >

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-04 Thread noam
Quoth Anthony Martin : > Noam, can you reproduce your problem with the above patch? Just from reading the patch: yes, with ~95% confidence. The logic it's fixing is completely unrelated. So: thanks! Now I can import that patch and have *another* deadlock fixed! Are there any other patches I shou

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-04 Thread Anthony Martin
Charles Forsyth once said: > It's funny that usually "it wasn't me" is used when breaking things. here > it's fixing them, but I'm fairly sure "it wasn't me" that fixed it. It was Richard Miller in 2012. https://9p.io/sources/patch/applied/fossil-snap-deadlock/ https://9p.io/sour

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-04 Thread noam
Quoth Charles Forsyth : > Fossil works hard to do certain things that now we probably wouldn't bother > to do. Such as? -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T354fe702e1e9d5e9-M8a784194389d102772df0a9e Delivery options: https:

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-04 Thread Charles Forsyth
One of the nice things about several of the papers at iwp9 was the implied or express reconsidering of secondary storage given various types of modern technology. Fossil works hard to do certain things that now we probably wouldn't bother to do. On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 at 21:44, Charles Forsyth wrote:

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-04 Thread Charles Forsyth
It's funny that usually "it wasn't me" is used when breaking things. here it's fixing them, but I'm fairly sure "it wasn't me" that fixed it. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T354fe702e1e9d5e9-Md75914502384917e733de7a4 Deli

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-04 Thread Skip Tavakkolian
it definitely was not me. My bet would be on rsc, geoff, richard, forsyth, quanstrom or djc. On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 11:05 AM Steve Simon wrote: > > > was this hard to reproduce? > > i have not seen fossil deadlocking and have used it since i installed my > first home server in 2004. > > there de

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-04 Thread noam
Quoth Steve Simon : > was this hard to reproduce? I've seen it sporadically over the last year, and - when looking for it - was able to trigger it deliberately yesterday with minimal effort the first time I looked for it. ...of course, when I was later trying to reproduce it a third time, I wasn'

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-04 Thread Steve Simon
was this hard to reproduce?i have not seen fossil deadlocking and have used it since i installed my first home server in 2004.there definitely _was_ a problem in the snapshot code which was finally resolved around 2015 (roughly), i think perhaps skip, or forsyth found it - i apologise if i have the

[9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

2023-04-04 Thread noam
I've sporadically encountered a deadlock in fossil. Naturally, when your root file system crashes, it can be hard to debug. My solution: stop having a root file system. Was able to attach acid using mycroft's tooling from ANTS, and get a clean stack trace (https://pixelhero.dev/notebook/fossil/s