Hi,
> * Chaitin randomness "almost always" implies exchangeability
This one comes from a paper I referenced earlier, in a post to extropy-chat
> * Exchangeability "almost always" implies Chaitin randomness
I'm not sure exchangeability implies Chaitin randomness.
Yeah, you're right, this s
On 1/19/07, YKY (Yan King Yin) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The bottomline is that the knowledge acquisition project is *separable* from
specific inference methods.
What is your argument supporting this strong claim?
I guess every book on knowledge representation includes a statement
saying tha
On 1/19/07, Joel Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It's been a while since I looked at Lojban or your Lojban++, so was
wondering if english sentences translate well into Lojban without the
sentence ordering changing? I.e. given two english sentences, are
there any situations where in lojban the sen
On 1/20/07, Benjamin Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Regarding Mindpixel 2, FWIW, one kind of knowledge base that would be
most interesting to me as an AGI developer would be a set of pairs of
the form
(Simple English sentence, formal representation)
For instance, a [nonrepresentatively sim
On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:32:54 -0500, Benjamin Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
I think this topic is more appropriate for
agi@v2.listbox.com
Sorry, I thought that was where I was! :) Sending there now...
Anyway, to respond to your point: Yep, I agree that exchangeability is
different from
On 1/20/07, Benjamin Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
A) This is just not true, many commonsense inferences require
significantly more than 5 applications of rules
OK, I concur.
Long inference chains are built upon short inference steps. We need a
mechanism to recognize the "interestingnes
Hi,
Do you think Cyc has a rule/fact like "wet things can usually conduct
electricity" (or "if X is wet then X may conduct electricity")?
Yes, it does...
I'll also contact some Cyc folks to see if they're interested in
collaborating...
IMO, to have any chance of interesting them, you will
On 1/20/07, Stephen Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I've been using OpenCyc as the standard ontology for my texai project.
OpenCyc contains only the very few rules needed to enable the OpenCyc
deductive inference engine operate on its OpenCyc content. On the other
hand ResearchCyc, whose licen
On 19/01/07, Benjamin Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
B) Even if there are only 5 applications of rules, the combinatorial
explosion still exists. If there are 10 rules and 1 billlion
knowledge items, then there may be up to 10 billion possibilities to
consider in each inference step. So t
> And, importance levels need to be context-dependent, so that assigning
> them requires sophisticated inference in itself...
The problem may not be so serious. Common sense reasoning may require only
*shallow* inference chains, eg < 5 applications of rules. So I'm very
optimistic =) Your wor
On 1/20/07, Benjamin Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Backward chaining is just as susceptible to combinatorial explosions
as forward chaining...
And, importance levels need to be context-dependent, so that assigning
them requires sophisticated inference in itself...
The problem may not be
On 1/20/07, David Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...
Do we divine the rules/laws/algorithms from a mass of data or do we
generate
the appropriate conclusions when we need them because we understand how it
actually works?
Just as chemistry is reducible to physics, in theory, while in reality
There will come a point when integrating Cyc-type assertions into
Novamente will make sense for us, and I'll be curious how useful they
turn out to be at that point
However, my impression is that OpenCyc's rules are not extensive
enough to really add a lot to Novamente. ResearchCyc has more
I've been using OpenCyc as the standard ontology for my texai project. OpenCyc
contains only the very few rules needed to enable the OpenCyc deductive
inference engine operate on its OpenCyc content. On the other hand
ResearchCyc, whose licenses are available without fees for research purpose
> "More knowledge, higher intelligence" is an intuitively attractive
> slogan, but has many problems in it. For example, more knowledge will
> easily lead to combinatorial explosion, and the reasoning system will
> derive many "true" but useless conclusions. How do you deal with that?
That's the
Your thermostat example can be used to show what I am talking about. The
thermostat has an algorithm that says when the temperature gets below some X
amount, turn on the burner and fan until the temperature rises to at least
some X+N amount. You get to set the X amount. It doesn't have a table t
On 1/19/07, Benjamin Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You have not explained how you will overcome the issues that plagued
GOFAI, such as
-- the need for massive amounts of highly uncertain background
knowledge to make real-world commonsense inferences
Precisely, we need to amass millions of
David Clark wrote:
I agree with Ben's post that this kind a system has been tried many times
and produced very little. How can a collection of "Cats have claws; Kitty
is a cat; therefore Kitty has claws." relate cat and kitty and that kitty
is slang and normally used for a young cat. A databa
On 1/19/07, YKY (Yan King Yin) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "More knowledge, higher intelligence" is an intuitively attractive
> slogan, but has many problems in it. For example, more knowledge will
> easily lead to combinatorial explosion, and the reasoning system will
> derive many "true" but
YKY (Yan King Yin) wrote:
...
I think a project like this one requires substantial efforts, so
people would need to be paid to do some of the work (programming,
interface design, etc), especially if we want to build a high quality
knowledgebase. If we make it free then a likely outcome is t
On 19/01/07, YKY (Yan King Yin) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How about this: the database would be open for anyone to download, for
experimentation or whatever purpose. Only when someone wants to incorporate
the data in an AGI, would a license fee be needed. Also I would make the
inference eng
On 1/19/07, Pei Wang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
For example, what you called "rule" in your postings have two
different meanings:
(1) A declarative implication statement, "X ==> Y";
(2) A procedure that produces conclusions from premises, "{X} |- Y".
These two are related, but not the same thi
On 1/19/07, Bob Mottram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
My feeling is that this probably isn't a great business idea. I think
collecting common sense data and building that into a general reasoner
should really be thought of as a long term effort, which is unlikely to
appeal to business investors e
Regarding Mindpixel 2, FWIW, one kind of knowledge base that would be
most interesting to me as an AGI developer would be a set of pairs of
the form
(Simple English sentence, formal representation)
For instance, a [nonrepresentatively simple] piece of knowledge might be
(Cats often chase mice,
YKY,
Pei's attitude is pretty similar to mine on these matters, although we
differ on other more detailed issues regarding AGI.
And, please note that compared to most AI researchers, Pei and I would
be among the folks most likely to be sympathetic to your ideas, given
that
-- we are both explic
YKY,
Frankly, I still see many conceptual confusions in your description.
Of course, some of them come from other people's mistake, but they
will hurt your work anyway.
For example, what you called "rule" in your postings have two
different meanings:
(1) A declarative implication statement, "X
My feeling is that this probably isn't a great business idea. I think
collecting common sense data and building that into a general reasoner
should really be thought of as a long term effort, which is unlikely to
appeal to business investors expecting to see a return within a few years.
If any a
On 1/19/07, Benjamin Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well YKY, I don't feel like rehashing these ancient arguments on this
list!!
Others are welcome to do so, if they wish... ;-)
You are welcome to repeat the mistakes of the past if you like, but I
frankly consider it a waste of effort.
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