RE: AI-GEOSTATS: Re: Log versus nscore transform

2006-08-10 Thread Bill Northrop
Hullo there Isobel, In the mining sample situation in gold several of the mining houses in SA consider that adjusting the zeros to 50 % of the lower detection limit is the best quick fix.(lesser of the evils !) . Obviously one must be sure that it is not a zero meaning value being measured

RE: AI-GEOSTATS: Log versus nscore transform

2006-08-10 Thread Gregoire Dubois
Dear list In addition to the excellent points made by Isobel, others from Anatoly are given below. I went through the archives of ai-geostats and found back very interesting discussions on this point (I apparently asked a similar question in 2001, and 2003, ... I definitely have a poor memory). As

Re: AI-GEOSTATS: Log versus nscore transform

2006-08-10 Thread Michael Grant
Title: Log versus nscore transform My apologies. The email below accidentally only went to Gregoire only. It turns out that I haven't quite reconnected to the list correctly.. So...     --- Original Message - From: Michael Grant To: Gregoire Dubois Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006

Re: AI-GEOSTATS: Log versus nscore transform

2006-08-10 Thread Peter Bossew
(original point by Gregoire:) > > > Moreover, one can frequently not be "sure" about the lognormality of >the analysed dataset, so why would one still take the risk of using >log-normal kriging? > (Anatoly:) > >what means "not sure"??? Pearson and Kolmogorov-Smirnov tests will be >used :-))

Re: AI-GEOSTATS: Log versus nscore transform

2006-08-10 Thread Maribeth Milner
Mike,    I can't speak to EPA UCLs, and I'm too far removed from the literature at this point to make a cogent argument... but I do remember my work characterizing the hydraulic properties of artificial soils and there was no doubt that the soil water retention curves (tension vs water content) w

Re: AI-GEOSTATS: Log versus nscore transform

2006-08-10 Thread Michael Grant
Hi Maribeth,   Sorry, I was not more clear. I was referring to saturated hydraulic conductivities at different locations on a site (and of course in the same hydrogeological unit). In so far as retention curves...do you perhaps mean logK vs. water content. Very often portions of those curves

Re: AI-GEOSTATS: Log versus nscore transform: K-S does not require binning

2006-08-10 Thread William V Harper
Peter, While the chi-square does require binning, the K-S (Kolmogorov-Smirnov) does not.  While some do bin data for a K-S, one of the reasons many use the K-S (or the supposedly slightly better Anderson-Darling available in Minitab for example) is that it can be (& should generally be) done w

Re: AI-GEOSTATS: Log versus nscore transform

2006-08-10 Thread Yetta Jager
Regardless of how well a lognormal model represents the distribution of the (one realization) of data, there are still significant issues in interpreting back-transformed kriging predictions and their back-transformed variances.  For example, because the back-transformed mean is a function of bot

AI-GEOSTATS: RE: Log versus nscore transform

2006-08-10 Thread Isobel Clark
Evan   Noel Cressie's book, first published in 1994, details the complete lognormal backtransform which includes the difference between the variance of the estimates and the variance of the 'true' values in the log space. My own papers of the late 1990s carried practical verifications of this tra

RE: AI-GEOSTATS: Log versus nscore transform

2006-08-10 Thread englund . evan
Gregoire, Isobel noted that "The parametric backtransform for lognormal kriging, for example, includes components to ensure that the backtransform produces unbiassed estimates in the original data space." A significant finding in Weber and Englund (Math Geol 24-4 1992) was that this does NOT ens

Re: AI-GEOSTATS: Log versus nscore transform: K-S does not require binning

2006-08-10 Thread Michael Grant
Shapiro-Wilk, Shapiro-Francia, pp-plot regression (similar to SW) are also all stock tools regarding normality tests.       At a deeper level, I can take Gregoire's original comment:   "Moreover, one can frequently not be "sure" about the lognormality of the analysed dataset"   to be 'one c

AI-GEOSTATS: kriging variance as a function of sampling density

2006-08-10 Thread Kerry Ritter
Hi. I am looking for a simple way to compute the kriging variance as a function of distance between sampling sites for a given spherical and exponential semivariogram. I know that these variances do not depend on the data values, but on location. Thus, it seems like this would be a common en

Re: AI-GEOSTATS: Log versus nscore transform

2006-08-10 Thread Isobel Clark
Yetta   If you have sub-populations, the lognormal backtransform probably wouldn't work very well -- this is one place where cross validation is extremely valuable.   There are many methods of 'decomposing' mixed distributions. P.D.M. Macdonald has a nice shareware program using a maximum like

RE: AI-GEOSTATS: kriging variance as a function of sampling density

2006-08-10 Thread Eric Delmelle
Kerry: As long the variogram model is concave upwards and increasing (i.e. no hole effect), the kriging variance will increase as you move away from existing sample points. So it will depend upon the model that you use and the location of the sample points. If the fitted variogram model is steeper