On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 at 03:32, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>
> In message
>
> =?UTF-8?Q?Cynthia_Revstr=C3=B6m?= wrote:
>
> >AFAIK the "org-name" attribute on the organisation object does get
> >verified if the organisation is a LIR or an end user that has received
> >resources directly from the
author
>
>
>
> --srs
>
> From: anti-abuse-wg on behalf of denis
> walker
> Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2022 12:59:10 PM
> To: Ronald F. Guilmette
> Cc: anti-abuse-wg
> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
>
>
-abuse-wg on behalf of denis walker
Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2022 12:59:10 PM
To: Ronald F. Guilmette
Cc: anti-abuse-wg
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 at 01:45, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>
> In message
>
> denis walker wrote:
>
On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 at 01:45, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>
> In message
>
> denis walker wrote:
>
> >The bottom line is that there are honest, law abiding people who are,
> >or would like to be, resource holders but are exposed to considerable
> >personal danger by making their name and address
Ronald the reason I haven't responded to your previous emails is that
you are talking utter nonsense. And as usual the two relevant
sentences in your huge, long rants are lost in all the offensive and
pointless references. You talk of fanatics, extremists, dictators,
alarmists, privacy paranoia,
In message
=?UTF-8?Q?Cynthia_Revstr=C3=B6m?= wrote:
>AFAIK the "org-name" attribute on the organisation object does get
>verified if the organisation is a LIR or an end user that has received
>resources directly from the RIPE NCC (through a sponsoring LIR). (and
>possibly a few other cases like
Hi,
I just want to start out by saying that I have been quite busy lately
so I can't reply to all points in this thread but I mostly agree with
denis and what I have previously said in the db-wg.
I have replied to rfg below.
On Tue, Jun 7, 2022 at 12:36 AM Ronald F. Guilmette
wrote:
>
> In
In message
denis walker wrote:
>The bottom line is that there are honest, law abiding people who are,
>or would like to be, resource holders but are exposed to considerable
>personal danger by making their name and address public. We must take
>the personal privacy issue seriously...
These are
In message
denis walker wrote:
>We are talking about restricting access to one piece of data, the
>address of natural persons. I accept that a lot of abuse may come from
>address space held by natural people. I understand that a lot of
>investigation work is done by companies and individuals.
In message , Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
>The person you should invite for this is Ron Guilmette
>
>Ask him about Romanian LIRs from eight or nine years back and you will
>probably get chapter and verse.
>
>For example https://seclists.org/nanog/2013/Jan/328
Indeed. I could write a book
al author
>
> --srs
>
> From: anti-abuse-wg on behalf of denis
> walker
> Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2022 12:19:43 AM
> To: Richard Clayton
> Cc: anti-abuse-wg
> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
>
&g
in a bar who handed over his ID to be used for registering ripe resources”
--srs
From: anti-abuse-wg on behalf of denis walker
Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2022 12:19:43 AM
To: Richard Clayton
Cc: anti-abuse-wg
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE
On Mon, 6 Jun 2022 at 19:27, Richard Clayton wrote:
>
> In message jgzda...@mail.gmail.com>, denis walker writes
>
> >On Mon, 6 Jun 2022 at 17:57, Suresh Ramasubramanian
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> Always a useful thing to do if you want to block all resources held by a
> >single actor or set of
In message , denis walker writes
>On Mon, 6 Jun 2022 at 17:57, Suresh Ramasubramanian
>wrote:
>>
>> Always a useful thing to do if you want to block all resources held by a
>single actor or set of actors.
>
>So are you saying that you DO use the ORGANISATION object address to
>match resources
In message , denis walker writes
>On Mon, 6 Jun 2022 at 16:15, Richard Clayton wrote:
>> You appear to be under the impression that Internet security and safety
>> arises out of the activities of Law Enforcement Agencies whereas in
>> practice private individuals and companies do the vast
On Mon, 6 Jun 2022 at 17:57, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
>
> Always a useful thing to do if you want to block all resources held by a
> single actor or set of actors.
So are you saying that you DO use the ORGANISATION object address to
match resources held by different members at the same
Always a useful thing to do if you want to block all resources held by a single
actor or set of actors.
--srs
Denis walker
you attempt some kind of heuristics with the free text search in the database
to match up resources with the same address.
--
To
Hi Richard
On Mon, 6 Jun 2022 at 16:15, Richard Clayton wrote:
>
> In message il.com>, denis walker writes
>
> >They were very clear that the address of resource holders is also very
> >important to LEAs in their investigations. So I am going to make a
> >controversial suggestion here.
-wg
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
In message , denis walker writes
>They were very clear that the address of resource holders is also very
>important to LEAs in their investigations. So I am going to make a
>controversial suggestion here. Currently we
In message , denis walker writes
>They were very clear that the address of resource holders is also very
>important to LEAs in their investigations. So I am going to make a
>controversial suggestion here. Currently we have two categories of
>registry data, Private and Public. The Public data is
, 2022 3:43:13 PM
To: Suresh Ramasubramanian
Cc: denis walker ; anti-abuse-wg
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
On Sun, 5 Jun 2022, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
> Good points here. There are no shortage of bad actors who will be happy to
> register a ne
_
From: anti-abuse-wg on behalf of Carlos Friaças via
anti-abuse-wg
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2022 3:23:01 PM
To: denis walker
Cc: anti-abuse-wg
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
Hi Denis, All,
(Please see inline, CSIRT hat=ON)
On Sun, 5 Jun 2022
Hi,
(please see inline)
On Thu, 2 Jun 2022, Michele Neylon - Blacknight via anti-abuse-wg wrote:
Jeroen
RIPE policy is not decided by a vote or astro-turfing.
Exactly, new policies can in fact be blocked by 2 or 3 individuals. Even
with bogus arguments.
And there is a certain group
Sunday, June 5, 2022 11:53:01 AM
To: denis walker
Cc: Hans-Martin Mosner ; Matthias Merkel
; anti-abuse-wg
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
Hi Denis, All,
(Please see inline, CSIRT hat=ON)
On Sun, 5 Jun 2022, denis walker wrote:
(...)
>> However, bes
-wg
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
Hi Denis, All,
(Please see inline, CSIRT hat=ON)
On Sun, 5 Jun 2022, denis walker wrote:
(...)
>> However, besides wanting to contact someone, there is a legitimate need to
>> identify bad actors a
Hi Denis, All,
(Please see inline, CSIRT hat=ON)
On Sun, 5 Jun 2022, denis walker wrote:
(...)
However, besides wanting to contact someone, there is a legitimate need to
identify bad actors and shun them with
whatever means at your disposal (SpamAssassin rules, IP blocks, nullroutes,
Hi Hans-Martin and Matthias
[I have merged both your emails into one to address all your points.]
Thanks guys for being the first people to start to address the
question I have been pushing, which is "Why" do we need to identify
resource holders? I had this in the back of my mind when I wrote
Hi Ronald, All,
On Sat, 4 Jun 2022, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
(...)
Of course this is just the EU/AML part. For now I won't even go into
the story of the time law enforcement officers showed up at RIPE
headquarters in 2009 and started asking questions in connection with a
money laundering
In message <5f2f5fec-15cd-a307-dac4-366dd76b6...@heeg.de>,
Hans-Martin Mosner wrote:
>> If you say yes to both, then I am compelled to point out there there is,
>> as far as I understand it, *no* requirement, within the RIPE region, at
>> present for there to be *any* correlation between what
Am 04.06.22 um 02:05 schrieb Ronald F. Guilmette:
In message ,
Hans-Martin Mosner wrote:
For resources allocated to legal entities (companies, organizations, etc.)
an identification of the organization should be mandatory.
Would you agree also that such identification of non-person legal
In message ,
Hans-Martin Mosner wrote:
>For resources allocated to legal entities (companies, organizations, etc.)
>an identification of the organization should be mandatory.
Would you agree also that such identification of non-person legal entities
that are the registrants of number resources
I agree that it must be possible to identify people who hold resources. Not
just for other network operators but also so that organizations such as law
enforcement are able to do so in emergency situations where contacting RIPE
could be too slow.
It is worth noting however that there now is a
Am 31.05.22 um 15:12 schrieb denis walker:
Colleagues
I have raised an issue on the DB WG mailing list about publishing in
the database the identity of natural persons holding resources.
Hi, this mail triggered the expected avalanche of controversial responses, which quickly devolved into
In message <009401d8768b$4286eca0$c794c5e0$@hackersbescherming.nl>,
jer...@hackersbescherming.nl wrote:
>But again, i get the feeling this group hardly has any people in it from the
>public interest and is bassicly filled with internet cowboys who don't care
>about all the crap that is being
In message , Matthias Merkel wrote:
>... If you think someone is
>intentionally sending you malicious traffic, the police is the point of
>contact for you.
Yes, because in practice THAT works oh so well!
Worldwide, and even in Russia, the police just LOVE cleaning up the messes
that we in the
rsbescherming.nl>>
Sent: Thursday 2 June 2022 14:27
To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'denis walker'
Cc: 'anti-abuse-wg'
Subject: RE: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from
unrecognised sources.
Michele,
s,
Jeroen
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Michele Neylon - Blacknight
Verzonden: donderdag 2 juni 2022 15:36
Aan: jer...@hackersbescherming.nl; 'denis walker'
CC: 'anti-abuse-wg'
Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
Jeroen
RIPE policy is not decided by a vot
make a difference?
I’m very curious on your answer.
Kind regards
Van: Michele Neylon - Blacknight
Verzonden: woensdag 1 juni 2022 13:05
Aan: jer...@hackersbescherming.nl; 'denis walker'
CC: 'anti-abuse-wg'
Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
Jeroen
“- Chan
...@hackersbescherming.nl; 'Michele Neylon - Blacknight'
; 'denis walker'
CC: 'anti-abuse-wg'
Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
No, because RIPE has no authority to fine anyone. If you think someone is
intentionally sending you malicious traffic, the police is the point of
contact
-wg@ripe.net>>
Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
Jeroen
“- Change the current contracts with all responsible companies where they will
have to pay a fine if any of their ip's has been detected and confirmed to
produce abusive traffic.
“
That wi
Verzonden: woensdag 1 juni 2022 13:05
Aan: jer...@hackersbescherming.nl; 'denis walker'
CC: 'anti-abuse-wg'
Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
Jeroen
"- Change the current contracts with all responsible companies where they
will have to pay a fine i
Cc: 'anti-abuse-wg'
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised
sources.
Good morning Denis/everyone,
I believe that personal data in the RIPE public database is unwanted and adds
no value at
ight
CC: anti-abuse-wg
Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
Hi Michele
The proposal is here
https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2022-01
cheers
denis
proposal author
On Tue, 31 May 2022 at 18:07, Michele Neylon - Blacknight
wrote:
>
> Denis
tions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>
>
>
>
>
> From: anti-abuse-wg on behalf of denis
> walker
> Date: Tuesday, 31 May 2022 at 14:12
> To: anti-abuse-wg
> Subject: [anti-abu
From: anti-abuse-wg on behalf of denis walker
Date: Tuesday, 31 May 2022 at 14:12
To: anti-abuse-wg
Subject: [anti-abuse-wg] personal data in the RIPE Database
[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised
sources.
Colleagues
I have raised an issue on the D
Colleagues
I have raised an issue on the DB WG mailing list about publishing in
the database the identity of natural persons holding resources. So far
no one has been willing or able to support any public interest value
in doing so. As things stand all personal data in the RIPE Database
will have
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