Q-Sound has some interesting technology that produces a truly realistic
3D soundfield.
http://www.qsound.com/index.htm
You can google some albums that use this technology
Amused to Death by Roger Waters is one that I frequently listen too.
--
mashley
mashley;688353 Wrote:
Q-Sound has some interesting technology that produces a truly realistic
3D soundfield.
http://www.qsound.com/index.htm
You can google some albums that use this technology
Amused to Death by Roger Waters is one that I frequently listen too.
It is impressive but in
TheOctavist;685110 Wrote:
Adam was asking for books, I suggested some.
practical experience= grand
books/learning academically= grand
combining book sense AND practical experience= superior. :)
Apologies - it wasn't a criticism, just an observation!
Phil
--
Phil Leigh
You want to
Phil Leigh;685211 Wrote:
Apologies - it wasn't a criticism, just an observation!
Phil
not a problem Sir! Glad to see you around here again! Breath of fresh
air(IMO!)
--
TheOctavist
VortexboxSBT(TT 3.0)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell 0300D
Sota Sapphire/Lyra KleosBespoke Valve Phono
TheOctavist;684958 Wrote:
that is exactly right, Adam..
http://www.rycote.com/images/uploads/The_Stereophonic_Zoom.pdf
http://www.serc.iisc.ernet.in/graduation-theses/akt_aug07.pdf
btw, I HIGHLY reccomend the following books. John Eargle(handbook of
recording engineering, sound
The LEDR test proves my point. It uses a computer generated signal. The
signal has to be computer generated because there is no way to
physically record such a signal in the real world using real sounds and
real microphones. The computer generated signal mimics/plays upon to a
certain extent
Phil Leigh;684918 Wrote:
I'm still not sure you quite get that it is all an elaborate trick -
just like stereoscopic photographs... There's just enough info to allow
ones brain to fill in the blanks... You need to consider that ears and
microphones are very different animals. microphones are
adamdea;684985 Wrote:
The first link in teddy ray's post ( thr stereophonic zoom by michael
williams ) contained the following extract (p.3 section on
localisation)
The intention in this document is to describe a variable dual
microphone system that will reproduce realistic stereophony,
Phil Leigh;684980 Wrote:
The LEDR test (fascinating as it is) proves categorically that it is
possible to persuade the brain into perceiving height and depth where
none really exists. It also proves that not all systems/setups+rooms
are equal in this respect.
Just to clarify- am I right in
adamdea;685036 Wrote:
Just to clarify- am I right in thinking that
-the LEDR test uses dsp to simulate the trasnfer function of sound
through your head to create some facsimile of the sound one hears when
a source is higher or lower than the plane of one's ears.(preumably the
same
Phil Leigh;685044 Wrote:
In very broad terms, yes.
It depends more on the replay chain being reasonably coherent (so as
not to distort the signal) and the speaker/room interface being
reasonably well behaved for the same reasons.
Correct. The most realistic imaging is achieved
adamdea;685049 Wrote:
Is that the same as ambisonics?
I've tried playing some ambisonic recordings (i only have 2; and not
exactly my favouraite music) using the decoder in Inguz. I think it was
working and produced some quite interesting effects but since I only
have a 2 channel hifi
adam..
the first books you should get. musts.
John Eargle(Sound Recording, Handbook of recording engineering, the
microphone book)
the new stereo soundbook
and the alan dower blumlein bio.
--
TheOctavist
VortexboxSBT(TT 3.0)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell 0300D
Sota Sapphire/Lyra
TheOctavist;685103 Wrote:
adam..
the first books you should get. musts.
John Eargle(Sound Recording, Handbook of recording engineering, the
microphone book)
the new stereo soundbook
and the alan dower blumlein bio.
These books - good as they are - are no substitute for practical
Phil Leigh;685109 Wrote:
These books - good as they are - are no substitute for practical
experience.
More germane to this thread, none will explain how to record height
:-)
Adam was asking for books, I suggested some.
practical experience= grand
books/learning academically= grand
Sadly they don't sell practical experience on amazon.
Thank you both for your assistance.
And particularly good to have you back Phil. Hope your absence has benn
due to being busy in a good way.
--
adamdea
adamdea's
I am firmly of the opinion that a holographic soundstage is primarily
constructed in the listener's brain. The soundfield presented by the
audio system is just one input to the illusion. Other factors such as
the listener's mood and the non-auditory ambience have a far larger
impact.
My evidence
Have a good read of everything on this site
http://linkwitzlab.com/frontiers.htm
This is the Linkwitz of Linkwitz-Riley crossover. His credentials are
beyond reproach and everything he says is backed up by measurement,
science, logic.
I have built two pairs of his Pluto 2.1 design and the
It is entirely a construct of ones brain. We are conditioned from an
early age to understand the 3-dimensional nature of our world and how
to place sounds within that space in order to understand how to
survive. In the real world we hear sound in 3 dimensions. Recorded
acoustics and replay chains
Phil Leigh;684772 Wrote:
It is entirely a construct of ones brain. We are conditioned from an
early age to understand the 3-dimensional nature of our world and how
to place sounds within that space in order to understand how to
survive. In the real world we hear sound in 3 dimensions.
Mnyb;684779 Wrote:
Good .
But there must be some parts of this system that is very similar in
all humans, as some recordings and some dsp soundfields can reliably
create this illusion for many people .
So there must be some common techniques that the sound engineer can use
to give
leaving aside the question of how width and depth are perceived, I think
the OP was at least partly based on the question of height.
Timing differences between the speaker, volume differences and phase
information can all go into left/right positioning and maybe even
depth. But is there any way
adamdea;684793 Wrote:
leaving aside the question of how width and depth are perceived, I think
the OP was at least partly based on the question of height.
Timing differences between the speaker, volume differences and phase
information can all go into left/right positioning and maybe even
Phil Leigh;684813 Wrote:
It's all in the mind - we create the aural illusion we expect/want to
hear. There is no known mechanism for placing an instrument in either
the height or depth plane using only the available tool of level
(panning) in stereo. In surround sound (sic) you have the
KMorgan;684739 Wrote:
Have a good read of everything on this site
http://linkwitzlab.com/frontiers.htm
This is the Linkwitz of Linkwitz-Riley crossover. His credentials are
beyond reproach and everything he says is backed up by measurement,
science, logic.
I have built two pairs of his
adamdea;684832 Wrote:
Hmmm. I was under the impression that localisation cues include time and
phase differences as well as differences in left right balance. This is
preumably possible to capture in a true stereo recording (not panpot
mono).
Even the difference in sound as a result of
I'm a long time user of Tact room correction. I believe others here
might also have experience with this system. It's surprising that the
impact of the listening room is not mentioned more frequently in these
discussions.
I have often been surprised at how minor adjustments in a target curve,
i actually listen to much 2ch material in souround modes with my
meridian processor it has some fake ambisonic modes and a propriotary
mode called trifield this works really well to involve all 5.1
speakers.
Note; Meridians souround modes are not gimmicks like on a 1990's ht
reciever no jazz
Phil Leigh;684849 Wrote:
Please read this http://www.opus3records.com/phil.html
Paying attention to the key phrase an illusion of reality
:-)
If you think about it, how can 2 speakers placed at a fixed distance
from your ears ever create anything but an illusion of sounds emanating
from
adamdea;684909 Wrote:
The expression illusion is ambiguous. Of course it's an illusion-
there isn;t actually an orchestra in the room. Even if the event
recorded were being perfectly reproduced it would in that sense be an
illusion.
But as I understadn it the entire sound I can hear
Perhaps I really am not getting it- you don't hear with a microphone
obviously; but you do hear the sounds reproduced by the recording
recorded by the microphone. Your brain is still engaged through your
ears at the end.
Clearly the soundstage is an illusion because the players aren't really
adamdea;684930 Wrote:
But how is there any information about height?
This seems like the essence of the problem in creating (the illusion
of) a 3D soundstage. Without height information the soundstage can, at
best, be two dimensional.
The fact that our ears are arranged on an axis running
The reflections ? Things from above Migth reflect differently against
the floor . Maybe the absence of much direct sound if something is
really high up everything is reflected before reacching your ear you
can wear a hat or a helmet and still hear things from above ?
And you can hear things from
You _can_ recreate a 3D wavefront simulation that gives you
directional hearing impressions, even with as few as two speakers if
they are able to create exact phased sounds. There is equipment like
that for computer gaming.
However, there are two drawbacks:
1. This only works in a single place.
the best techniques, BAR NONE for soundstage/localization precision..
Blumlein and Jecklin Disc/OSS.
Period.
:)
--
TheOctavist
VortexboxSBT(TT 3.0)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell 0300D
Sota Sapphire/Lyra KleosBespoke Valve Phono StageMastersound Due
VentiLink Audio K100
you can see easily the imaging you get with various microphone setups
here.
http://www.hauptmikrofon.de/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=1:image-assistantcatid=29:stereoItemid=40
--
TheOctavist
VortexboxSBT(TT 3.0)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell 0300D
Sota Sapphire/Lyra
adamdea;684832 Wrote:
But I'm not sure how it is possible to encode or reproduce *any* height
information.
the chesky LEDR test easily shows height..
--
TheOctavist
VortexboxSBT(TT 3.0)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell 0300D
Sota Sapphire/Lyra KleosBespoke Valve Phono StageMastersound
adamdea;684832 Wrote:
Hmmm. I was under the impression that localisation cues include time and
phase differences as well as differences in left right balance. This is
preumably possible to capture in a true stereo recording (not panpot
mono).
that is exactly right, Adam..
In another thread somebody raised the question of the soundstage that we
perceive when listening to 2-channel audio. Rather than polluting that
thread anymore, I'm moving that discussion to this thread.
chill;684657 Wrote:
I considered starting a new thread for this, because I promise you,
Darren replied with this:
darrenyeats;684664 Wrote:
Interesting questions. I am of the belief that certain equipment can
create or at least enhance a soundstage, much like you can have
equipment with a warm bass or tizzy treble.
For example, on my current system, some tracks don't image
..and Mnyb replied with this:
darrenyeats;684664 Wrote:
Interesting questions. I am of the belief that certain equipment can
create or at least enhance a soundstage, much like you can have
equipment with a warm bass or tizzy treble.
For example, on my current system, some tracks don't
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