Re: [bitcoin-dev] A possible solution for the block size limit: Detection and rejection of bloated blocks by full nodes.

2015-06-30 Thread Jeremy
A simple hack to achieve this would be phase shifting the transaction fees by one block. There may be other problems, but also potential benefits, with that though. This hack works because then a miner would orphan a block which didn't properly reward them, which makes it very costly for even a min

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A possible solution for the block size limit: Detection and rejection of bloated blocks by full nodes.

2015-06-30 Thread Pieter Wuille
The problem with this approach is that you need 100% exact behaviour for every node on the network in their decision to reject a particular block. So we need a 100% mempool synchronization across all nodes - otherwise just an attempted double spend could result in a fork in the network because some

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A possible solution for the block size limit: Detection and rejection of bloated blocks by full nodes.

2015-06-30 Thread Luke Dashjr
On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:41:29 PM Peter Grigor wrote: > The block size debate centers around one concern it seems. To wit: if block > size is increased malicious miners may publish unreasonably large "bloated" > blocks. The way a miner would do this is to generate a plethora of private, > non-p

[bitcoin-dev] A possible solution for the block size limit: Detection and rejection of bloated blocks by full nodes.

2015-06-30 Thread Peter Grigor
The block size debate centers around one concern it seems. To wit: if block size is increased malicious miners may publish unreasonably large "bloated" blocks. The way a miner would do this is to generate a plethora of private, non-propagated transactions and include these in the block they solve.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block-size tradeoffs & hypothetical alternatives (Re: Block size increase oppositionists: please clearly define what you need done to increase block size to a static 8MB, and help do

2015-06-30 Thread Tom Harding
On 6/30/2015 12:54 PM, Adam Back wrote: > Secondly on the interests and incentives - miners also play an > important part of the ecosystem and have gone through some lean times, > they may not be overjoyed to hear a plan to just whack the block-size > up to 8MB. While it's true (within some limits

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block-size tradeoffs & hypothetical alternatives (Re: Block size increase oppositionists: please clearly define what you need done to increase block size to a static 8MB, and help do

2015-06-30 Thread Simon Liu
My understanding is that BIP 101 has working code to raise the block size and is ready for evaluation today. When will Lightning and Sidechains be ready so that a fair and controlled test can be made? On 06/30/2015 12:54 PM, Adam Back wrote: > People who would like to try the higher tier data-ce

Re: [bitcoin-dev] The need for larger blocks

2015-06-30 Thread Aaron Voisine
Moving the list to BCC, since this isn't really a technical discussion. On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Venzen Khaosan wrote: > > Bitcoin's exchange rate, as a commodity money floating freely in the > market, will go up and down according to speculative cycles and we > should conceptually separ

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block-size tradeoffs & hypothetical alternatives (Re: Block size increase oppositionists: please clearly define what you need done to increase block size to a static 8MB, and help do

2015-06-30 Thread Milly Bitcoin
>"Decentralization" is a popular buzzword these days, but how about stating the problem description in a way that is more precise and accurate? One of Bitcoin's differentiating properties is that it prevents double spending without using a trusted third party. I have been researching how it ca

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block-size tradeoffs & hypothetical alternatives (Re: Block size increase oppositionists: please clearly define what you need done to increase block size to a static 8MB, and help do

2015-06-30 Thread Justus Ranvier
On 06/30/2015 02:54 PM, Adam Back wrote: > Decentralisation is key to Bitcoin's security model, and it's > differentiating properties. Continually repeating this statement without defining terms or providing evidence does not make it true or informative. "Decentralization" is a popular buzzword t

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size increase oppositionists: please clearly define what you need done to increase block size to a static 8MB, and help do it

2015-06-30 Thread Bryan Cheng
One thing that seems to have been forgotten is that the 1MB block size does not represent any particular rigorous design choice; it is purely arbitrary. It does not represent any type of technical sweet-spot; it neither falls under any reasonable MTU to prevent TCP fragmentation, nor does it guara

[bitcoin-dev] block-size tradeoffs & hypothetical alternatives (Re: Block size increase oppositionists: please clearly define what you need done to increase block size to a static 8MB, and help do it)

2015-06-30 Thread Adam Back
Not that I'm arguing against scaling within tech limits - I agree we can and should - but note block-size is not a free variable. The system is a balance of factors, interests and incentives. As Greg said here https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3b0593/to_fork_or_not_to_fork/cshphic?context

Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP: Full Replace-by-Fee deployment schedule

2015-06-30 Thread Chris Pacia
On 06/30/2015 12:05 PM, Peter Todd wrote: > Well, as you know I have good reason to believe those contracts are > being actively worked on right now. Isn't the whole reason they are working on those contracts because a few miners don't use first-seen in all circumstances as it is? Or as a corollary

[bitcoin-dev] RFC: HD Bitmessage address derivation based on BIP-43

2015-06-30 Thread Justus Ranvier
Monetas has developed a Bitmessage address derivation method from an HD seed based on BIP-43. https://github.com/monetas/bips/blob/bitmessage/bip-bm01.mediawiki We're proposing this as a BIP per the BIP-43 recommendation in order to reserve a purpose code. __

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size increase oppositionists: please clearly define what you need done to increase block size to a static 8MB, and help do it

2015-06-30 Thread Michael Naber
Re: Why bother doubling capacity? So that we could have 2x more network participants of course. Re: No clear way to scaling beyond that: Computers are getting more capable aren't they? We'll increase capacity along with hardware. It's a good thing to scale the network if technology permits it. Ho

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size increase oppositionists: please clearly define what you need done to increase block size to a static 8MB, and help do it

2015-06-30 Thread Peter Todd
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 11:15:31PM +0700, Venzen Khaosan wrote: > > Do what's best for Bitcoin and define what needs to get done to > > agree to a simple block size increase to a static 8MB. > > And this then leads back to the core issue: if an 8MB blocksize > excludes many on this list from testn

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size increase oppositionists: please clearly define what you need done to increase block size to a static 8MB, and help do it

2015-06-30 Thread Venzen Khaosan
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael, I snipped some of your comparison example to comment. I agree with your sentiment to lobby for testing the change and your offer to provide resources, yet it presents some (surmountable) challenges: On 06/30/2015 10:34 PM, Michael Naber wrote

Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP: Full Replace-by-Fee deployment schedule

2015-06-30 Thread Peter Todd
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 03:12:52PM +0200, Adam Back wrote: > It is correct to view first-seen miner and relay policy as > honour-based, though it is the current default. > > I think it would be better to deploy full-RBF in an opt-in way and > leave the current default miner & relay policies as is.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size increase oppositionists: please clearly define what you need done to increase block size to a static 8MB, and help do it

2015-06-30 Thread Richard Moore
I’m not planning to take a firm stance against or for, but one problem with your analogy is that airplanes [currently] are not elastic (until we get TARDIS technology, or semi-TARDIS-like technology); they take up space and resources proportional to their capacity. It is not the block size that

[bitcoin-dev] Block size increase oppositionists: please clearly define what you need done to increase block size to a static 8MB, and help do it

2015-06-30 Thread Michael Naber
As you know I'm trying to lobby for a block size increase to a static 8MB. I'm happy to try to get the testing done that people want done for this, but I think the real crux of this issue is that we need to get consensus that we intend to continually push the block size upward as bounded only by t

Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP: Full Replace-by-Fee deployment schedule

2015-06-30 Thread Peter Todd
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 09:49:51AM -0400, Chris Pacia wrote: > > > On 06/30/2015 09:12 AM, Adam Back wrote: > > It is correct to view first-seen miner and relay policy as > > honour-based, though it is the current default. > > > > > What would be the effect of IBLT on the first seen policy? It se

Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP: Full Replace-by-Fee deployment schedule

2015-06-30 Thread David A. Harding
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 03:12:52PM +0200, Adam Back wrote: > Any thoughts on the simplest way to support an opt-in version of full-RBF? Bundle it in with BIP62 version-2 (or whatever) transactions. - As you desire for RBF, the BIP62 transactions are already specified to be opt-in. Nobody has to

Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP: Full Replace-by-Fee deployment schedule

2015-06-30 Thread Chris Pacia
On 06/30/2015 09:12 AM, Adam Back wrote: > It is correct to view first-seen miner and relay policy as > honour-based, though it is the current default. > > What would be the effect of IBLT on the first seen policy? It seems that if a miner has to broadcast extra data with his blocks because he's

Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP: Full Replace-by-Fee deployment schedule

2015-06-30 Thread Adam Back
It is correct to view first-seen miner and relay policy as honour-based, though it is the current default. I think it would be better to deploy full-RBF in an opt-in way and leave the current default miner & relay policies as is. So for example a new signature flag or transaction type that is mar