Re: [bitcoin-dev] Yesterday’s UASF (LOT=true) kick off meeting

2021-03-03 Thread Ariel Luaces via bitcoin-dev
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 12:25 PM Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > At this point in time it also appears the greatest risk to Taproot > dying a slow death is a small group of developers who think talking in > conservative tones and talking about endless philosophy makes Bitcoin > a

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

2021-03-03 Thread Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev
Your Excellency, You don’t seem to understand how Bitcoin currently works. A signature is a mathematical /probabilistical proof that the person who signed (the output) is the same person who created the script (the input) that was paid to (i.e. not fraud). You cannot see that he is that

Re: [bitcoin-dev] LOT=False is dangerous and shouldn't be used

2021-03-03 Thread yanmaani--- via bitcoin-dev
No, it's not the same. This approach is not guaranteed to activate. On flag day, it'd check for (say) 20% miner support, and activate if so. If >80% of miners oppose, it'd fail. LOT=true (and declining percentage) will activate unconditionally. Also, the day before lock-in, this would still

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Making the case for flag day activation of taproot

2021-03-03 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton via bitcoin-dev
would it help by first setting a regular period of e.g. 6 months when only at that time would consensus rules ever be changed? not, "6 months from now taproot will be introduced', a rule, "*any* consensus change regardless of what they are (including NO change) will *ONLY* be made at regular

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Making the case for flag day activation of taproot

2021-03-03 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
On 3/3/21 14:08, Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev wrote: While I support essentially any proposed taproot activation method, including a flag day activation, I think it is premature to call BIP8 dead. Even today, I still think that starting with BIP8 LOT=false is, generally speaking,

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Making the case for flag day activation of taproot

2021-03-03 Thread yanmaani--- via bitcoin-dev
On 2021-03-03 20:48, Chris Belcher wrote: On 03/03/2021 17:30, yanma...@cock.li wrote: Is that supposed to be a good thing? "We should do X because it'll work" doesn't prove X is actually good. These things can be evil, but they can also be legitimate opposition to a change. Taking away the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Making the case for flag day activation of taproot

2021-03-03 Thread Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev
While I support essentially any proposed taproot activation method, including a flag day activation, I think it is premature to call BIP8 dead. Even today, I still think that starting with BIP8 LOT=false is, generally speaking, considered a reasonably safe activation method in the sense that I

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Making the case for flag day activation of taproot

2021-03-03 Thread Chris Belcher via bitcoin-dev
It is good that social media drama can only make its own followers fork away. In bitcoin people represent themselves, if they want certain rules enforced they should have to actually tell their software to do that. The problem with BIP8 is that social media drama has a incentive to promote

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

2021-03-03 Thread Felipe Micaroni Lalli via bitcoin-dev
Dear LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH), a.k.a. "The Australian", This discussion list is serious stuff, please stop making noise. Fungibility is a desirable property, anyway. Thank you! On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 12:04 PM Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>

[bitcoin-dev] Yesterday’s UASF (LOT=true) kick off meeting

2021-03-03 Thread Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev
Yesterday we held a UASF (LOT=true) kick off meeting on the ##uasf IRC channel. The conversation log is here: http://gnusha.org/uasf/2021-03-02.log It was announced (at short notice admittedly) here: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-March/018515.html It is clear

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Making the case for flag day activation of taproot

2021-03-03 Thread yanmaani--- via bitcoin-dev
On 2021-03-03 14:39, Chris Belcher via bitcoin-dev wrote: Enter flag day activation. With a flag day there can be no brinksmanship. A social media blitz cant do anything except have its own followers fork away. Crucially, miner signalling cant be used to change the activation date for nodes

Re: [bitcoin-dev] LOT=False is dangerous and shouldn't be used

2021-03-03 Thread Emil Pfeffer via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Mar 02, 2021 at 06:21:59PM +, Chris Belcher via bitcoin-dev wrote: > It is wrong to say that using miner signalling alone for activation > (LOT=false) is a bug. That depends on the definition you choose to work with but since the community had to produce a fix that implies something

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

2021-03-03 Thread Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev
> consensus requires the ledger to be honest does not prove that it is honest. Actually, that’s exactly what it does. A logical/mathematical requirement (necessity) is also called a proof. e From: bitcoin-dev On Behalf Of LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev Sent: Tuesday,

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-03-03 Thread Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 11:45:22AM -0500, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Given this, it seems one way to keep the network in consensus would be to > simply activate taproot through a traditional, no-frills, flag-day (or > -height) activation with a flag day of roughly August, 2022. Going

[bitcoin-dev] Making the case for flag day activation of taproot

2021-03-03 Thread Chris Belcher via bitcoin-dev
The bitcoin world is close to total gridlock on the question of how to activate taproot. There's no agreement on activation[1][2], and if an agreement isn't reached then nothing happens. That would be really terrible because we'd miss out on the benefits of taproot and potentially other future

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

2021-03-03 Thread LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev
Good Afternoon, No-one has yet demonstrated that Conjoin or using Wasabi wallet is secure if it relies on third-parties. Are the transaction not forwarded partially signed as with an SPV wallet? So it is possible the SPV server cannot redirect funds if dishonest? SPV wallets are secure

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

2021-03-03 Thread LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev
Good Afternoon, All people are entitled to privacy in their purse, and all transactions should be open to the scrutiny of an honest government. You can debate whether any government is honest. Mixing does not remove the record from the public ledger, where it is possible to see that any

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

2021-03-03 Thread LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev
"Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop in North London in cash. Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen to share this information, it is absolutely no concern of yourself or any other party that this transaction has occured." Good Afternoon, Requiring little argument I concur,

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal for new "disabletx" p2p message

2021-03-03 Thread Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev
> I believe this is what BIP 60 does, or did you have something else in > mind? Right, it achieves the first goal of dissociating `fRelay` from BIP37 but it doesn't document Core specific behavior of disconnecting peers for raw TX messages reception from outbound block-relay-only peers, as