Re: [bitcoin-dev] Making the case for flag day activation of taproot

2021-03-04 Thread Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev
Mike was wrong about a number of things, and in the end decided that Bitcoin was pointless, as people could not defend it against the state. He used this as the basis for his defense of large blocks and centralized mining. When that didn’t work out he quit, to work on centralized systems. Peopl

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Making the case for flag day activation of taproot

2021-03-04 Thread Vincent Truong via bitcoin-dev
I must remind everyone of Mike Hearn's proposal not many years ago, which ought to be on everyone's mind right now. "Every soft fork should be a hard fork, and that soft forks are inherently dangerous because old nodes are tricked to not know what the new nodes are doing" (paraphrased). Whether tap

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

2021-03-04 Thread LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev
Good Afternoon, I will reply this to the list. Knit picking is not constructive. The basic principle of Bitcoin it all transactions are published to the public ledger, the blockchain. What is valuable is the system that consensus enshrines as we have it, not what it may become tomorrow. If ther

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

2021-03-04 Thread LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev
Good Afternoon, Gold is not all off the record if you suppose, it is all the King's property if His Excellency likes. If you suppose for underground gold perhaps fork Bitcoin and make Encryptitcoin and notice governments are hostile to hidden money. Bitcoin also has value because it is transpar

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

2021-03-04 Thread Thomas Hartman via bitcoin-dev
“all transactions should be open to the scrutiny of an honest government” I agree with this. However, scrutiny does not imply dragnet surveillance. Bitcoin returns us, or at least aspires to return, to the days of a gold standard.[0] You will be familiar with this, from your time in Her Majesty’

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

2021-03-04 Thread LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev
Good Afternoon, So this I have been advised as you say. My concern was that the more complex scripts allow obfuscation of the Pay To address thereby removing the probity that Bitcoin can only be honest since the public ledger can be subject to limitless scrutiny. I did see another party mentio

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

2021-03-04 Thread Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev
taproot does not enable anything that cannot already be done today. it only enables larger and more complex scripts to be done more efficiently - using less ledger space. so any objections you can have should be leveled at bitcoin, not at taproot. On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 6:39 AM LORD HIS EXCELLEN

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Making the case for flag day activation of taproot

2021-03-04 Thread Keagan McClelland via bitcoin-dev
As one of the folks that prefers LOT=true I can certainly attest to the fact that at least some of us would be willing to do a flag day activation instead. As far as I'm concerned, flag day does not give a very small percentage of the user base (5-10% of minerz) the ability to veto a change that ha

Re: [bitcoin-dev] MASF=true + LOT=informational

2021-03-04 Thread Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev
And of course: 1) MASF=true + LOT=eventually true Using a declining activation threshold over time gives miners control only over the timing of activation, not the eventuality. This is essentially the same as LOT=true, however, it has a greater chance of activation without requiring intervening

[bitcoin-dev] MASF=true + LOT=informational

2021-03-04 Thread John Rand via bitcoin-dev
With reference to considerations https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-March/018555.html and motivation to find consensus on incrementally improving Bitcoin soft-fork activation mechanisms. (TL;DR Consensus is important for the activation mechanism as there are more soft-for

Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP70 is dead. What now?

2021-03-04 Thread P G via bitcoin-dev
Hi Thomas, > Nevertheless, there is ONE feature of BIP70 that I find useful: the fact that payment requests were signed. In addition to signing the actual payment request, a nice addition to a new payment protocol is an assurance that the receiving address can in fact spend later on. Many users s

Re: [bitcoin-dev] activation mechanism considerations

2021-03-04 Thread Steve Lee via bitcoin-dev
+1 for calm and patience as we navigate the activation mechanism. On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 3:24 AM Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > > On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 10:07, John Rand via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> Cons

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Making the case for flag day activation of taproot

2021-03-04 Thread Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev
Appologies as I've rearranged your comments in my reply. On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:14 PM Matt Corallo wrote: > > On 3/3/21 14:08, Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > After a normal and successful Core update with LOT=false, we will have > more data showing broad community support for the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Yesterday’s UASF (LOT=true) kick off meeting

2021-03-04 Thread Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev
Hi Ariel > I think Bitcoin is fine staying as is until that minority forks off with their own alt-node A quick UASF fork allows for an early LOT=false activation. I think you misunderstand BIP 8 (LOT=true). Although no timetable has been finalized as of yet (and hence we are in the realm of

Re: [bitcoin-dev] activation mechanism considerations

2021-03-04 Thread Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev
On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 10:07, John Rand via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Consensus is important for both taproot and separately for the activation > mechanism. There are more soft-forks that Bitcoin will need, so it is > important to achieve positive progress on th

[bitcoin-dev] activation mechanism considerations

2021-03-04 Thread John Rand via bitcoin-dev
Consensus is important for both taproot and separately for the activation mechanism. There are more soft-forks that Bitcoin will need, so it is important to achieve positive progress on the activation topic also, not get impatient and rush something ill-considered. Not all future soft-forks maybe